TokenGazer《一问到底》 | 第39期：研究员 vs Lition

TokenGazer

于 2019-04-30 18:09:35 发布

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本文链接：https://blog.csdn.net/TokenGazer/article/details/89735144

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前言

TokenGazer《一问到底》是一档辨析区块链领域一级市场项目优劣的优质栏目。每一期将针对区块链领域早期的一级市场项目，邀请项目负责人做客现场，和社群内百余名研究员深度问答、科学辨析。旨在通过项目方与研究员高质量的对弈问答，打造专业级别的项目评析平台，厘清项目价值，探寻早期优质项目。同时，让社群用户真正参与价值评析，传递评析方法，在“问与答”中获取价值信息。

本期项目：Lition

活动时间：4月29日20:00

Lition：Lition is developing an advanced scalable public-private blockchain with deletable data features, made for commercial products.

Lition 正在开发具有可删除数据功能的可扩展公共/私有区块链的商业产品。

以下为中英双语互动文字整理版：

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Lition uses sidechains to improve Ethereum's scalability. Have you tested the performance of Lition sidechains? What is the test environment like?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Our current testnet at http://bc1.lition.io has around 10 nodes running on Azure. Before that, we used AWS, and did a stress test that reached around 2000 tps on a 10 node setup on our unoptimized setup. That was using c5.18xlargeAWS machines, so quite some heavy firepower there. In practice, if there is a setup that needs a lot of TPS the sidechain developer would probably just create a few sidechains instead of one. As you can have a practically unlimited amount of sidechains, scalability is not an issue.

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Lition 采用侧链的方式对以太坊进行拓展，目前有没有对 Lition 侧链的性能进行测试？测试环境是怎样的？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们当前的测试网在 http://bc1.lition.io 上，有大约10个节点在 Azure 上运行。在那之前，我们使用了 AWS，并做了一个压力测试，在我们未优化的设置上的10个节点上达到了大约2000 tps。使用的是 c5.18xlargeAWS，所以有相当大的计算能力。在实践中，如果需要大量的 TPS，侧链开发人员可能会创建几个侧链，而不是一个。由于实际上你可以拥有无限数量的侧链，所以扩展性不是问题。

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Private data is stored on privileged nodes that are mining private sidechains so as to guarantee data privacy, but how to prevent a Single Point of Failure and ensure data security and durability?

What is Lition's advantage over the decentralized storage solution? Is the decentralized storage solution in your future plan?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：We ensure data privacy by sharing privileged information only within the sidechain, and a sidechain owner needs to give permission to every node joining. Otherwise, it is technically impossible to get private data. Also as part of joining, a sidechain node needs to agree to Terms of Service, which serve as a legal basis so that a DApp operator can distribute private data in legally safe terms. So we have both technical and legal safe guards for private data.

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Lition 私有侧链上的数据以隐私保护的方式存储在准入节点上，如何防范单一坏点以保障数据的安全性、耐久度？和去中心化存储方案相比，Lition 认为这种数据存储方式的优势在哪里？未来会考虑去中心化存储方案吗？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们通过仅在侧链中共享隐私信息来确保数据隐私，并且每个节点的加入都要获得允许。否则，从技术上讲是不可能获得私有数据的。另外，作为加入的一部分，侧链节点需要同意服务条款，该条款是一个法律基础，以便 DApp 运营商能够以合法安全的条款发布私有数据。因此，我们对私人数据都有技术和法律保障。

TokenGazer 社区成员：Will Lition be partnering with any other projects in the Energy sector?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：A clear yes – we have in several discussions right now. Just two weeks ago we announced to bring blockchain-based peer-to-beer trading to South Africa by partnering with a Top 10 solar operator. See more on this here:

https://medium.com/lition-blog/lition-and-nesa-to-bring-decentralized-energy-to-south-africa-2eb917e56a54

Longhash Yan：LongHash, as an incubator and partner of Lition in Asia will connect other renewable energy application with Lition. Such as Rec exchange application.

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Indeed. We're grateful to have Yan and his team of Longhash on board here! This was also the focus of our last discussion when Yan and his team were here in Berlin when they visited us.

Longhash Yan：I think in an open source community, competitive advantage ecosystem building up, network effect and business resource connection.

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Lition 会和能源领域的其他项目合作吗？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：当然，我们已经进行了几次讨论。就在两周前，我们宣布与一家全球前十的太阳能运营商合作，将基于区块链的点对点啤酒交易带到南非。关于这方面的更多内容，请参阅：

https://medium.com/lition-blog/lition-and-nesa-to-bring-bring-energy-to-south-south-2eb917e56a54

Longhash Yan：LongHash 作为 Lition 在亚洲的孵化器和合作伙伴，将把其他可再生能源应用与 Lition 连接在一起, 比如 Rec Exchange 应用。

Richard ¦ Lition.io：是的，我们很感激 Yan 和他的 LongHash 团队，这也是我们上一次在柏林讨论的焦点。

Longhash Yan：我认为在一个开源社区，有竞争力的优势生态系统的建立，要有网络效应和业务资源连接。

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Legal constraints on privileged nodes is the key to Lition's data delectability. This approach is very likely to be followed by other projects. What will you do to remain competitive?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：There will always be solutions that are technically faster, better, quicker, etc. Especially in the blockchain world, which is typically open source. We however learned that when it comes to commercial applications and mass adoption by real businesses, the technical arguments aren't the onlyones. Actually, it is much more important to prove that a system actually works with real customers and revenue (like our energy use case with customers in more than 100 cities) and has strong names behind it (like SAP in our case). That's something which is not copied easily, but very important for big commercial companies.

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Lition 保障数据可删除的关键环节之一是用法律合约约束准入节点，这一点可以被其他项目模仿，Lition 怎样保障自己的竞争力?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：总会有技术上更快、更好的解决方案。特别是在区块链领域的开源项目。然而，我们了解到，当涉及到商业应用和真正的企业级大规模应用时，技术上的争论并不是唯一的。实际上，更重要的是证明一个系统实际上能获得真实的客户与收入（就像我们在100多个城市的客户的能源使用案例一样），并且背后有强大的品牌（比如我们的 SAP）。这是一件不容易复制的事，但对大的商业公司非常重要。

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Talk about energy use case, we know that you started with a P2P energy trading app and later shifted to the Lition project. Could you tell us the truth about the usage rate of the app, what is the daily trading volume?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Back in November 2018 we had 700 households from over 10 cities that received Energy, as described in the Coindesk article:

https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-energy-project-now-powers-700-households-in-10-cities

We don't publish actual customer numbers, but we (April 2019) now have customers from over 100 cities. That's an overall energy trading volume of several million kWhs. Should you know someone in Germany tell them to become acustomer: www.lition.de. Then they can see for themselves, get the lowest energy prices, and do some real blockchain trading.

Longhash Yan：LongHash German branch CEO Jasmine experienced the P2P energy trading app, the feedback is pretty good.

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Lition 最开始做的是 P2P 能源交易应用，后来开始做 Lition。目前该应用的真实使用情况是怎样的？每日交易量如何？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：早在2018年11月，我们就有来自10多个城市的700户家庭用上了 Energy，正如 Coindesk 文章中所述：

https://www.Coindesk.com/ethereum-Energy-project-now-powers-700-households-in-in-10-cities

我们没有公布实际的客户数量，但我们（2019年4月）现在有来自100多个城市的客户。这相当于几百万千瓦时的总能源交易量。如果你在德国有熟人，给他们这个网址：www.lition.de。然后他们自己就能搞定，得到最低的能源价格，并做一些真正的区块链交易。

Longhash Yan：LongHash 德国分公司首席执行官 Jasmine 体验了 P2P 能源交易应用，反馈相当不错。

TokenGazer 社区成员：Lition comes on to the market as already largely compliant already. What obstacles do you forsee being presented in future when STOS's are starting to launch on your platform? Are there any other regulatory bodies that must be applied to before you can start launching STOs?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Right now it's mainly legal issues hindering STOs. We and our partners are primarily in discussions with the financial supervisory body and the legislative government. In Europe, they need to give approval before a security token can be offered to individuals. And this approval is only given when a safe, privacy-preserving and legally compliant blockchain is being used. And that's where we come into the game!

TokenGazer 社区成员：Lition 涉足的领域基本上已经是遵规蹈矩了。当 STO 开始在你的平台上发布的时候，你预计在未来会遇到什么障碍？在发行 STO 之前是否必须向其他监管机构提出申请？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：现在主要是法律问题阻碍 STO。我们和我们的合伙人与金融监管机构和立法机构进行讨论。在欧洲，向个人提供证券通证之前，他们需要得到批准。只有在使用安全、隐私保护和符合法律要求的区块链时，才会给予批准。而这就是我们的落脚点！

TokenGazer 社区成员：Do you aim to be the top STO platform in Europe? To add to that, what about further global expansion?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：We aim to be the go-to choice for infrastructure when doing a fully regulatory compliant STO in Europe. That where most of our STO clients are coming from Europe right now, but we are open to other areas as well. I think it's just that our (legal) expertise and thus value we bring to the tables stronger in Europe than in other areas right now. But one thing is certain: If you can do an STO in the highly regulated European space, then you can make it anywhere!

TokenGazer 社区成员：你们的目标是成为欧洲顶级的 STO 平台吗？此外，进一步的全球拓展计划是怎样的呢？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们的目标是成为欧洲首选的完全合规的 STO 底层平台。目前我们的大多数客户来自欧洲，但我们也对其他地区开放。我认为我们的法律专长使我们在欧洲比在其他地方能创造更大的价值。但有一件事是肯定的：如果你能在高度管制的欧洲空间里做 STO，那么你就可以在任何地方做 STO。

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：How’s the current situation of your cooperation with SAP? How is the current development status and how do you integrate the development work by the two teams? What is the biggest problem/challenge that the two teams have encountered in cooperation?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：SAP and Lition have signed a contract to work together on bringing blockchains to mass market use. This is a common goal, based on our joint observations that today's blockchain architectures do not support requirements of typical business use cases like managing both private and public data, legal compliance for data protection, transaction speeds, etc. Lition made this experience through their energy use case, and SAP through various MVP projects they did together with their clients. In practice, it means our developers regularly need to discuss how to bring this into technical reality. The work distribution is that Lition develops the public consensus system, while SAP is responsible for the private storage.

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：Lition 和 SAP 的合作是怎样的状态？各自的开发进度和融合情况如何？双方在合作中遇到的最大的问题/挑战是什么？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：SAP 和 Lition 已经签署了一份合同，合作将区块链用于大规模市场。这是一个共同目标，基于我们的共同观察，即今天的区块链架构不支持典型业务用例的需求，比如管理私有和公共数据、数据保护的合规性、交易速度等。Lition 通过他们的能源使用案例获得了这种经验，而 SAP 则通过他们与客户一起完成的各种 MVP 项目。实际上，这意味着我们的开发人员定期会面，讨论如何将这一点纳入技术现实。其工作分配为：Lition 发展公有共识系统，而 SAP 则负责私有存储。

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：What is the biggest challenge for the team when developing the P2P energy trading app? Is it the reason why you shifted to the Lition problem?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：We realized that current generation blockchains do not suit the requirements of mass market, commercial DApps made for an on-blockchain audience. Customers don't accept block confirmation times that take 20 seconds, they don't want their personal data to be readable by others, etc. That was the biggest issue we (and also SAP's blockchain team) faced, and ultimately led to our blockchain solution.

TokenGazer 研究员 Tiger：在做 P2P 能源交易应用时，团队遇到的最大挑战是什么？这是不是团队开始做 Lition 的原因？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们意识到当前的区块链不适合大众市场的要求，而商用 DApps 是为非区块链的用户准备的。客户不接受20秒的区块确认时间，他们不希望自己的个人数据被他人读取，等等。这是我们（以及 SAP 团队）面临的最大问题，并最终产生我们的区块链解决方案。

TokenGazer 社区成员：As it will be done on WeChat, does Lition have plans for partnerships or business expansion into Asia? If so, how would that look like? Energy partners? Banking? STO? Thanks.

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Asia is a very important market for us, as Blockchain technologies are embraced strongly. Our focus lies on China and Korea. Just two weeks ago, we started off with a cooperation with Tomochain, a very fast and efficient Mainchain that we will allow an choring of our sidechains to. This allows us to leverage on their stronger local presence in Asia. Also, through SAP, we're also in discussions with local Asian energy companies. As usual, we will officially announce partnerships once they are signed.

TokenGazer 社区成员：Lition 是否有在亚洲建立合作关系或业务扩张的计划？如果是这样，那会是什么样子？能源伙伴？银行业？STO？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：亚洲对我们来说是一个非常重要的市场，因为区块链技术在亚洲很受欢迎。我们的注意力集中在中国和韩国。就在两个星期前，我们开始了与 Tomochain 的合作，一个非常快速和高效的主链，我们将允许锚定我们的侧链。这使我们能够利用它们在亚洲更强大的影响力。此外，通过 SAP，我们也在与当地的亚洲能源公司进行讨论。和往常一样，一旦双方签约，我们将正式宣布合作关系。

TokenGazer 社区成员：Are there different stages to the SAP partnership? If you prove perform particularly well will the partnership be extended or will they buy a portion of your company?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Stage one is to get a working product out. Then anything is possible. The main criteria will however always be if we can generate value for customers and DApp developers.

TokenGazer 社区成员：你们与 SAP 的合作关系是分阶段的吗？如果合作良好，合伙会延长吗？或他们会收购你公司的一部分？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：第一阶段是做出一个可使用的产品。然后一切皆有可能。但是，首要的标准始终是，我们能够为客户和 DApp 开发人员创造价值。

TokenGazer 社区成员：I suppose my question would be around your competitors and what sets you apart from other energy blockchain projects?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Regarding our energy use case, a few are Powerledger, Wepower or Electrify. Asia. However, none of them are commercially available for a mass market as they are still all on pilot/PoC stage.

Regarding our blockchain infrastructure, and focus of our company, it is hard to precisely call on our competitors as we are having quite a broad scope that is addressed by few projects more narrowly. However, here are a few projects that enter our scope:

LTO (waves fork, same GDPR compliance but smaller scope than we're having)
LOOM (layer 2 solution but focused on games and plasma)
RAIDEN (layer 2 solution but focused on payments)
CELER (layer 2 solution but focused on off-chain transactions & smart contracts)
POA (layer 2 solution but focused on interoperability)

Longhash Yan：For comparison, I think Lition is more like Polka Dot. Sidechain and share security to support consortium chain connection.

TokenGazer 社区成员：我想我的问题是关于你的竞争对手，是什么让你与其他能源区块链项目不同？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们的竞争对手只有少数几个：Powerledger、Wepower 和 Electrify。但他们都没有达到大规模商用阶段，还停留在 Pilot/PoC 阶段。我们的区块链基础设施和我们公司的定位，很难有精确匹配的竞争对手，因为我们有相当广泛的业务范围。然而，这里有几个项目进入了我们的范围：

LTO（Waves 分叉，相同的 GDPR 合规性，但范围比我们现有的范围更小）
LOOM（第二层解决方案，但主要用于游戏和 Plasma）
RAIDEN（第二层解决方案，但主要用于支付）
CELER（第二层解决方案，但主要关注链下交易和智能合约）
POA（第二层解决方案，但侧重于互操作性）

Longhash Yan：Lition 和 Polka Dot 很像，用侧链和共享安全性来支持联盟链的连接。

TokenGazer 社区成员 RUI^_^：Could you introduce Lition's token unlock plan and incentive mechanism please?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Lition has 145m total tokens, out of which 26.7m are unlocked in the first 3 months. Our token release was about 2 weeks ago, so for the next 10 weeks it stays at 26.7m. Then, seed investors and advisors slowly unlock according to the picture below.

Regarding incentive systems, there are 3 in place:

ICO investors that keep funds in their wallet for 180 days get 25% bonus. Every day 1/180 of 25% is added. We call this the HODL highway.
Alternative to the HODL Highway, ICO investors could choose to opt into the buyback program, that returns 50% of their funds after 180days.
After our mainnet launches, we give incentives for people running nodes and staking their tokens.

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TokenGazer 社区成员 RUI^_^：Lition 的代币解锁计划和奖励制度貌似很复杂能仔细讲讲吗？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Lition 总共有1.45亿个代币，其中2,670万是在头三个月解锁的。我们的代币发行时间大约是2周前，所以在接下来的10周里它保持在2,670万。然后，种子轮投资者和顾问的代币会根据上图逐步解锁。

激励机制方面，目前共有3个：

把资金放在钱包里180天的 ICO 投资者可以得到25%的红利。每天增加25%的1/180。我们称之为 HODL 高速公路。
除了 HODL 高速公路，ICO 投资者可以选择加入回购计划，180天后，将退回他们50%的投资。
主网上线后，我们为那些运行节点并抵押代币的人提供激励。

TokenGazer 社区成员 RUI^_^：Lition is not widely known in China and there is only a limited trading volume on exchanges. What's your token plans for the future,eg. buyback and burn to boost investors' confidence?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：We designed our token to be used by commercial massmarket use cases, i.e. organic, non-speculative demand. We believe this is a lot more sustainable than short-term measures like buybacks, that only help one-time. So far, this has been reflected also in our price develpoment.

TokenGazer 社区成员 RUI^_^：这个项目在国内没啥知名度，代币交易所上交易量也很低，团队未来对代币有什么计划吗？比如通过回购销毁的方式提振交易者信心？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们的代币供商业的大众市场使用，即有机的、非投机性的需求。我们相信，这比短期措施（如回购）更可持续得多。短期措施只能解决一时之需。到目前为止，这也反映在我们的价格发展情况上。

TokenGazer 社区成员：I understand that Lition is also partnered with Tomochain, what are they trying to accomplish together?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：We cooperate both technically and regarding business development. We have the same objectives: To bring blockchains to the massmarket. Tomochain has a strong Asian presence, which is crucial for Lition, while Lition can provide support in Europe. Also, Tomochain is a great additional Mainchain for certain use cases. Further details are in our announcement post here:

https://medium.com/tomochain/tomochain-lition-partnership-announcement-77e542507353

TokenGazer 社区成员：我知道 Lition 也与 Tomochain 合作，你们希望共同完成什么目标？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们在技术和业务发展方面进行合作。我们有同样的目标：将区块链引入大众市场。Tomochain 在亚洲有着强大的影响力，这对 Lition 的发展至关重要，而 Lition 在欧洲也能提供支持。另外，对于某些用例，Tomochain 是一个很好的附加主链。更多详情请见我们在此发布的公告：

https://medium.com/tomochain/tomochain-lition-partnership-announcement-77e542507353

TokenGazer 社区成员：When will the Loan DApp full version be out? Looks pretty nice btw.

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Thanks! This will depend on the feedback we get from our partner VR Bank and outcome of trial runs. However, we cannot guarantee that we are allowed to publish the next updates as they might contain VR-bank-specific adaptions that competitors might be interested in.

TokenGazer 社区成员：Loan 应用全功能版本什么时候上线？看起来很棒。

Richard ¦ Lition.io：谢谢！这将取决于我们从合作伙伴 VR Bank 得到的反馈和试运行的结果。然而，我们不能保证我们被允许发布下一次更新，因为它们可能包含竞争对手可能感兴趣的特定于 VR Bank 的适配。

TokenGazer 社区成员：It has been stated that Lition will use a Proof-of-Stake consensus mechanism. Could you provide us with more informationin regards to which type (delegated, leased, or other) PoS you are considering?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：This is the focus of our work as we speak. For our testnet we're still on a RAFT consensus mechanism, but we'll soon publish an article that describes our PoS in more detail. For now, also some details are in our whitepaper.

TokenGazer 社区成员：有消息称，Lition 将采用 PoS 共识机制。能说一下正在考虑哪个类型（代理、租赁或其他）的 PoS？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：这是我们目前工作的重点。对于我们的 Testnet，我们仍然使用 RAFT 共识机制，但是我们将很快发布一篇更详细地描述我们的 PoS 的文章。现在，我们的白皮书中也有一些细节。

TokenGazer 社区成员：Can you give an estimate as to when Lition will be a fully fledged blockchain company? When will mainnet be complete and when will you completely functional?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：Our mainnet launch is scheduled for Q3 2019. It's been scheduled for that date since mid 2018, and we're still on track to achieve this, especially given our successful testnet launch in Feb 2019. That will be a working release that allows users to commercially deploy our solution, but we'll constantly be adding features.

TokenGazer 社区成员：你能否估计一下什么时候 Lition 将成为一个成熟的区块链公司？主网什么时候完善并具备全部功能？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：我们的主网计划于2019年第三季度上线。2018年中开始有这个计划，并且我们仍在实现这个目标，特别是在2019年2月成功发布测试网的情况下。这将是有实用功能的版本，允许用户在商用场景部署我们的解决方案，我们将不断地添加功能。

TokenGazer 社区成员：Where do you aim to be in terms of Market cap in 5 years?

Chris Wang @ThunderCore：We cannot give speculations on our token price as we are currently actively traded. But we do believe we have the best solution out there for commercial use cases. "The blockchain standard for business" is our vision after all!

TokenGazer 社区成员：5年内的市值目标是多少？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：由于我们目前交易活跃，我们不能对价格进行预测。但是我们相信，我们已经为商业用例提供了最好的解决方案。成为“商用区块链的标准”是我们的愿景！

TokenGazer 社区成员：Will you be sticking religiously to your roadmap targets or do they serve as a kind of "rough outline"?

Richard ¦ Lition.io：So far, we have always hit our milestones. That being said, our ultimate goal is that Lition becomes the blockchain of choice for commercial use cases. If we believe it makes sense that we can achieve this goal better by re-prioritizing milestones, this is something we will of course do. I believe the outcome is the most important part, not how you get there.

TokenGazer 社区成员：你们会虔诚地坚持自己的路线图目标，还是只作为一种“粗略的计划”？

Richard ¦ Lition.io：到目前为止，我们一直在努力实现 Milestone。话虽如此，我们的最终目标是 Lition 成为商业用例区块链的首选。如果我们认为有必要通过重新确定 Milestone 优先级来更好地实现这一目标，那么我们当然会这样做。我相信结果比过程更重要。

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