劳拉·申克（Lara Schenck），WordPress开发，自由职业和休假

In this episode of the Versioning Show, David and Tim are joined by Lara Schenck, a freelance web consultant and educator. They discuss making a living as a freelancer, productivity and the art of procrastinating, networking and answering emails, self teaching and gaining experience, using metaphors to explain things, understanding what clients really need, taking time off, saving money, and progressively enhancing babies.

在此版本的版本显示中，David和Tim和自由网络顾问和教育家Lara Schenck一同加入了会议。 他们讨论了以自由职业者为生，生产力以及拖延，建立网络和答复电子邮件的技巧，自我教学和获得经验，使用隐喻来解释事物，了解客户的真正需求，请假，节省金钱以及逐步养育婴儿的技巧。 。

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访问版本控制显示主页

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在iTunes上订阅 | 订阅Stitcher | 查看所有剧集

显示笔记 (Show Notes)

• Lara on Twitter: @laras126

  拉拉(Lara)在Twitter： @ laras126

• Lara’s not Laura website: notlaura.com

  拉拉的不是劳拉网站： notlaura.com

• Simple

  简单

• Pastry Box Project

  糕点盒项目

• Lara’s Tackle Box course

  拉拉的钓具盒课程

• Paul Jarvis' Creative Class course for freelancers

  Paul Jarvis的自由职业者创意班课程

• Automattic Lounge

  自动休息室

• Advanced Custom Fields for WordPress

  WordPress的高级自定义字段

• Learning scrum with M. David Green

  与David Green一起学习Scrum

• Say hello on Twitter: @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom

  在Twitter上问好： @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom

对话重点 (Conversation Highlights)

I will say it sounds like a dream, but you can’t separate work and life in the same way you can when you have a job and you can leave. One important thing about freelancing is not working in your bed or in your PJs. It’s getting out of the house, going into a co-working space.

我会说这听起来像是一个梦想，但是您无法以一种有工作就可以离开的方式将工作和生活区分开。 关于自由职业的重要一件事是不要在床上或睡衣上工作。 它正在离开房屋，进入一个共同工作的空间。

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I think, maybe, there’s more pressure for the networking part that seeps into your every day. So if I go to a bar, even if I’m talking to someone, it’s like, Ooh, I wonder if they need a website, or if they know somebody like who wants to learn WordPress.

我认为，也许每天渗透到网络部分的压力更大。 因此，如果我去酒吧，即使我正在和某人聊天，这就像， 哦，我想知道他们是否需要网站，或者他们是否认识像谁想要学习WordPress的人。

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an important thing to mention in terms of taking a bunch of time off, you have to have the right project that allows you to do that.

需要花费大量时间来提及这一点很重要，您必须拥有合适的项目才能做到这一点。

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I think I scoff a lot at articles that are like you should work 10 minutes, break three minutes, whatever they are. Stand up, walk around. Everybody has their own thing. My (probably) biggest strategy is procrastinating … as weird as that sounds. The longer you have to do it, the longer it will take. If you shrink that down to the time you actually need to complete something, then it’s more efficient that way.

我认为我对诸如您应该工作10分钟，休息三分钟之类的文章大为嘲笑。 站起来，走走。 每个人都有自己的东西。 我的(可能)最大的策略是拖延……听起来很奇怪。 您必须做的时间越长，花费的时间就越长。 如果将时间缩减到实际需要完成的时间，那么这样做会更有效。

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for media queries. I talk about starting with a baby — a baby which is like size zero and then progressively enhancing it, I guess. You move up, and like at age 10, the baby now has a little dress on, or long hair, and then age 21, they have a nose piercing, they’re holding a beer …

用于媒体查询。 我想说的是从一个婴儿开始-一个像零号的婴儿，然后逐步增强它。 你往上走，就像在10岁那年，婴儿现在穿了一点衣服或留着长发，然后在21岁那年，他们的鼻子扎了一下，拿着啤酒……

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Things like boot camps can be great for jumping off point, and really give people a good inventory of terms and concepts within the industry, but it’s not like the be all end all. You have to have real project experience.

像新兵训练营这样的东西很适合作为起点，并确实为人们提供了行业中的术语和概念的详尽清单，但是这并非一帆风顺。 您必须具有真实的项目经验。

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A big thing I figured out during my time in New York was to give people options. I would say, Okay, maybe you don’t know what you need. A lot of times you start talking to someone who needs a website. They don’t need a website. They need a business plan.

在纽约期间，我想到的一件大事就是给人们提供选择的机会。 我会说， 好的，也许您不知道需要什么。 很多时候，您开始与需要网站的人交谈。 他们并不需要一个网站。 他们需要一个商业计划。

成绩单 (Transcript)

Tim: 蒂姆：

Hey, what’s up everybody. This is Tim Evko …

嘿，大家好吗？ 这是Tim Evko…

David: 大卫：

… and this is M. David Green …

…这是大卫·格林(M. David Green)…

Tim: 蒂姆：

… and you’re listening to episode number 30 of the Versioning podcast.

…，您正在收听Versioning播客的第30集。

David: 大卫：

This is a place where we get together to discuss the industry of the web from development to design, with some of the people making it happen today and planning where it’s headed in the next version.

在这里，我们可以聚在一起讨论从开发到设计的网络行业，其中一些人将其付诸实践，并计划下一个版本的发展方向。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Today, we’re talking with Lara Schenck, who works with WordPress. She is a web developer. She is also a teacher and a pretty good cocktail maker. So we’re going to talk about a whole bunch of different things today. Let’s go ahead and get started.

今天，我们正在与使用WordPress的Lara Schenck交谈。 她是一名网络开发人员。 她还是一位老师和一位出色的鸡尾酒制作人。 因此，今天我们将讨论很多不同的事情。 让我们开始吧。

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David: 大卫：

Lara, we’re really glad to have you on the show today. Thanks for joining us.

拉拉，我们很高兴今天有您参加这次演出。 感谢您加入我们。

Lara: 拉拉：

All right. Thanks for having me.

行。 感谢您的款待。

David: 大卫：

I’m definitely going to want to find out more about those cocktails, but first, since this is the Versioning Show, we want to ask you a philosophical question. Your philosophical question for the day is: in your current career, what version are you, and why?

我肯定会想了解更多关于这些鸡尾酒的信息，但是首先，因为这是Versioning Show，所以我们想问您一个哲学问题。 您今天的哲学问题是：您目前的职业是什么版本，为什么？

Lara: 拉拉：

Oh. I would say 3.0.

哦。 我会说3.0。

David: 大卫：

[Chuckles] How did you get to that?

[笑声]你是怎么做到的？

Lara: 拉拉：

3.0 because I think I started out, after college, I worked with a startup for about a year or so. I was doing freelance projects. After that startup caved, I moved into doing freelance work. So a lot of custom WordPress sites for small to medium-size businesses. And not organically — maybe around Version 2.8 — I organically moved into a lot of teaching. Recently, I stopped. I had a little bit of burnout and took a five-month break-ish. Now, I’m just starting 3.0.

3.0，因为我想我刚大学毕业后就在一家初创公司工作了大约一年。 我当时在做自由项目。 在那家初创公司破产之后，我开始从事自由职业。 因此，有很多针对中小型企业的自定义WordPress网站。 而不是有机地(也许是在2.8版左右)，我有机地进入了很多教学领域。 最近，我停了下来。 我有点精疲力尽，花了五个月的时间来突破。 现在，我才刚刚开始3.0。

David: 大卫：

Well, welcome to 3.0. I’m curious, you said you took a break. At this point in your career, it’s an interesting choice to make.

好吧，欢迎来到3.0。 我很好奇，你说你休息了。 在您的职业生涯中，这是一个有趣的选择。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah, it is, because I was living in New York for about three years and was doing really well. I had a ton of work. I was always going to get referrals from emails or whatever. I say, Oh, my next availability is March of next year. It was always that kind of thing. And it just got to be a lot. New York takes its toll. So I decided to try out the ski bum lifestyle in Utah … of all places.

是的，因为我在纽约住了大约三年，而且生活非常好。 我做了很多工作。 我总是会从电子邮件或任何其他方面获得推荐。 我说， 哦，我的下一个可用时间是明年3月。 总是那样的事情。 而且它必须很多。 纽约要付出代价。 因此，我决定在犹他州…在所有地方尝试滑雪爱好者的生活方式。

David: 大卫：

That’s a good way to take a break. That completely removes you from the work you were doing, I guess.

这是休息的好方法。 我想这完全使您脱离了工作。

Lara: 拉拉：

Oh, totally. Well, so I went back to Pittsburgh for a few months, which is where I’m from. I had a great time, ended up getting to a pretty cool relationship, which is really fun. I was just, I don’t know, for lack of a better phrase, partying a lot there. And then was like, Oh, crap. I’m going to Utah. I was able to ramp business down pretty easily. I bar tended at a ski lodge in Alta, Utah, which is a pretty awesome ski mountain up there. It was fun for a while, and I was like, I need to use my brain again. I like building websites. So I moved to L.A.

哦，完全。 好吧，所以我回到了匹兹堡几个月了，那是我的家。 我度过了愉快的时光，最终结成了一段很酷的恋爱关系，这真的很有趣。 我只是，我不知道，因为缺乏更好的用词，所以在那里聚会很多。 然后就像， 哦，胡扯。 我要去犹他州。 我能够很轻松地减少业务。 我的酒吧是在犹他州阿尔塔的一座滑雪小屋里打理的，那里是一座很棒的滑雪山。 有一阵子很有趣，我想， 我需要再次动脑子。 我喜欢建立网站。 所以我搬到了洛杉矶

David: 大卫：

I know how that is. Tell us a little bit about the career that you were stepping away from. What led you to that burnout? How did you get there?

我知道那是怎么回事。 告诉我们一些您要离开的职业。 是什么导致了您的倦怠？ 你是怎么到达那里的？

Lara: 拉拉：

Sure. I worked with individual clients a lot. It’s all very project based. I never did any full-time contract work. I would get a referral from something. I spoke at a lot of meet ups and did things like that. So a lot of referrals came through people that saw me there, or whatever. I had a few great clients, and would do this four month-ish projects for websites. It was a little bit one and done. I was trying to do more teaching too. I did a lot of tutoring. It became a lot of the business operations part, and scheduling, and working around that. It just became exhausting. Like emails … I have a little PTSD about that.

当然。 我经常与个人客户合作。 都是基于项目的。 我从未做过全职合同工作。 我会从某事中获得推荐。 我在很多见面会上都讲话，并且做了类似的事情。 因此，很多推荐都是通过在那见过我的人来进行的。 我有一些很棒的客户，并且会为网站进行为期四个月的项目。 这有点完成。 我也在尝试做更多的教学。 我做了很多补习。 它成为许多业务运营，调度和解决方案的一部分。 只是变得筋疲力尽。 像电子邮件……我对此有一点PTSD。

So my goal is to intentionally respond to emails slowly now. Because I think in my head, you set these expectations for yourself, like Oh, I’ve got to respond in three hours or whatever. I’d be checking my email constantly, and that’s something you have to consciously not do. I think I just wanted to be able to get out of the city more often. I love New York. I definitely miss it now that I’ve been gone for a while, but I think I just needed a little step away to get excited about things, again, too.

因此，我的目标是现在有意缓慢地回复电子邮件。 因为我想，您会为自己设定这些期望，就像哦，我必须在三个小时之内做出回应。 我会不断检查我的电子邮件，这是您必须自觉不做的事情。 我想我只是想能够更频繁地出城。 我爱纽约。 我已经离开了一段时间，现在我肯定想念它，但是我想我也只需要走一小步就可以对事情感到兴奋。

Tim [3:58]: 蒂姆[3:58] ：

I’m curious, because I have experienced burnout before. I’m sure a lot of us have, but I think there’s a little bit of fear, at least, for myself when I think about just stepping back and taking an extended leave. I feel like — I don’t know — I’m going to lose all of my skills and spend all of my money and end up as a failed web developer. I’m curious if you had any concerns like that, and how you got over them.

我很好奇，因为我以前经历过倦怠。 我敢肯定，我们当中有很多人，但是我认为，至少当我退后一步并请长假时，至少对我自己有些恐惧。 我感觉-我不知道-我将失去所有技能，花光我所有的钱，最终成为一名失败的Web开发人员。 我很好奇您是否有这样的担忧，以及如何克服它们。

Lara: 拉拉：

I definitely did. I was thinking like, Oh, I hope WordPress isn’t obsolete when I come back, or HTML might be really different. But it turns out, HTML is not that different. Although, I don’t know what the hell is going on with the JavaScript world … [chuckles] … not that I did too much before.

我绝对做到了 我当时在想， 哦，我希望当我回来时WordPress不会过时，否则HTML可能会有所不同。 但是事实证明，HTML没有什么不同。 虽然，我不知道JavaScript世界到底是怎么回事…… [咯咯地笑] …并不是我以前做得太多。

So I did fear that a little bit, becoming out of date, because being part of teaching is being able to answer these questions — about buzzwords, new concepts, things like that. You really need to stay up to date.

因此，我确实担心会有点过时，因为作为教学的一部分，他们能够回答这些问题，例如专业术语，新概念等等。 您确实需要保持最新状态。

I’ve just been getting back into working and looking for work. I’ve been just reading a whole bunch of news, too — seeing what the new conversations are. I guess, coming back into it, I haven’t had any development projects yet. That’ll be cool to dive back into that.

我刚刚回到工作岗位并寻找工作。 我也一直在阅读大量新闻-看看新的对话是什么。 我猜，回到它，我还没有任何开发项目。 再潜入其中会很酷。

I think, organically, we’ll figure out the best way to do things. Because you always run into problems, or something’s not working. You end up googling it, and you’ll look at the dates of the blog post and notice what’s changed. I think that’s not really something to worry about. Other fears like finding the work. I’m starting from scratch there a little bit. I still have some good contacts from being in New York, but I’m in L.A. now, which is super different, and so spread out. It’s weird figuring that out. Yeah, we’ll see. I started meeting some people here. I’m talking at the WordPress meet up next week, so …

我认为，有机地，我们将找出做事的最佳方法。 因为您总是遇到问题，或者某些问题不起作用。 您最终对其进行了谷歌搜索，然后查看博客文章的日期并注意到发生了什么变化。 我认为这并不是真正要担心的事情。 其他恐惧就像找到工作。 我从零开始。 我在纽约仍然有一些很好的人脉，但现在我在洛杉矶，这是非常不同的地方， 所以分散了。 弄清楚这一点很奇怪。 是的，我们拭目以待。 我开始在这里认识一些人。 我在下周的WordPress聚会上谈论，所以…

David: 大卫：

That’s definitely a good way to build up the network in a new city. What made you choose moving from the East Coast to the West Coast?

这绝对是在新城市中建立网络的好方法。 是什么让您选择从东海岸到西海岸？

Lara: 拉拉：

Well, I have a couple of really good friends out here, and this relationship I mentioned — my girlfriend is living in L.A. now, too. She moved out here. So yeah, the people, and I wanted a big city again. Maybe some sunshine, because I got my fill of winter.

好吧，我这里有几个非常好的朋友，而且我提到过这种恋爱关系-我的女朋友现在也住在洛杉矶。 她搬到这里了。 是的，人民，我又要一个大城市。 也许有些阳光，因为我充满了冬天。

This is a cool prospect. I’ve got a lot of questions about how I get work and operate as a freelancer. It’s a cool prospect to be like, Okay, I’m going to do this. I think my philosophy is, you do a lot of stuff for free at first, get your name out there, be a genuine person, and the referrals come in. It might take a few months, but that’s something that kind of happens organically.

这是一个很酷的前景。 关于如何获得自由职业者的工作和运营，我有很多疑问。 像这样的前景很好， 好吧，我要去做。 我认为我的理念是，首先要免费做很多事情，让自己的名字在那里，成为一个真正的人，然后推荐人加入。这可能要花几个月的时间，但这是有机的事情。

David: 大卫：

I think a lot of listeners would say you’re pretty much living the dream, because you’ve created a career for yourself in which you can freelance, you can take six months off to be a bartender and bum around, and then just dive right back in and pick up where you left off.

我想很多听众会说您正在梦想中实现，因为您已经为自己创建了可以自由职业的职业，可以休假六个月成为调酒师，四处流浪，然后潜水马上回来，从上次停站的地方接起。

Lara: 拉拉：

Pretty much, yeah. I will say it sounds like a dream, but you can’t separate work and life in the same way you can when you have a job and you can leave. One important thing about freelancing is not working in your bed or in your PJs. It’s getting out of the house, going into a co-working space. The other thing is just, I guess, emails and constantly being out looking for contacts. I think, maybe, there’s more pressure for the networking part that seeps into your every day. So if I go to a bar, even if I’m talking to someone, it’s like, Ooh, I wonder if they need a website, or if they know somebody like who wants to learn WordPress. That kind of thing. It’s just a little more pervasive in your day-to-day life, I think.

是的，是的。 我会说这听起来像是一个梦想，但是您无法以一种有工作就可以离开的方式将工作和生活区分开。 关于自由职业的重要一件事是不要在床上或睡衣上工作。 它正在离开房屋，进入一个共同工作的空间。 我想，另一件事就是发送电子邮件，并且不断寻找联系人。 我认为，也许每天渗透到网络部分的压力更大。 因此，如果我去酒吧，即使我正在和某人聊天，这就像， 哦，我想知道他们是否需要网站，或者他们是否认识像谁想要学习WordPress的人。 那种事 我认为，这在您的日常生活中更加普遍。

And an important thing to mention in terms of taking a bunch of time off, you have to have the right project that allows you to do that. Before I left New York, I was doing a part-time contract with a startup there doing front-end for them. So it was like revamping all of their Rails apps. I was doing the whole front-end for that and making a little style guide for them. That paid really well. I was able to do that for a few months. They ended up not needing me any more, and then I could take the time off. You have to have that one project that gives you a huge cushion.

值得一提的是，需要花费大量时间，您必须有一个正确的项目来执行此操作。 在我离开纽约之前，我与一家初创公司做一份兼职合同，在那里为他们做前端。 因此，这就像对其所有Rails应用程序进行了改造。 我为此做了整个前端，并为他们制作了一些样式指南。 那真的很好。 我能够做到几个月。 他们最终不再需要我，然后我可以请假。 您必须拥有一个可以为您提供巨大缓冲的项目。

David: 大卫：

That is, again, one of the advantages of working in this field that we’re in, in that we have the opportunity to take on projects that can be a single project for a short period of time that can really cover the bills for a while.

再次，这就是我们所从事的这一领域的优势之一，因为我们有机会在很短的时间内承接可以是单个项目的项目，而这些项目实际上可以涵盖一项工程的账单。而。

Lara [7:57]: 拉拉[7:57] ：

Yeah, totally. And then, of course, I can’t emphasize enough: if anybody is interested in going out on their own, having that cushion — and this is a totally unsolicited plug — but I use Simple bank, which is so fun for a little savings goals and anything you use. If you’re trying to just put away money a little bit and you have that four months of living expenses, that needs to stay there, because you don’t know if a project is going to drag on and on and on and then you’re not going to be paid for it any more.

是的，完全是。 然后，当然，我不能强调得足够：如果有人有兴趣自己出门，有这个缓冲垫，这是完全不请自来的插件，但是我使用的是简单银行，一点点储蓄都很有趣目标和您使用的任何东西。 如果您只是想存一点钱，而又有四个月的生活费，那就需要留在那儿，因为您不知道一个项目是否会一拖再拖，然后您不再为此付出任何代价。

David: 大卫：

Did you start your career as a freelancer, or did you work yourself up to freelancing along the way?

您是以自由职业者的身份开始职业生涯的，还是一直致力于自由职业？

Lara: 拉拉：

I’ve always freelanced, pretty much. I had this startup job out of college for a year. That was a full-time thing. Technically it was contracting, but I was continuing to do freelance projects then. But I’ve been doing it full time for probably like seven or eight years. I figured out this WordPress niche. A lot of people, especially in the non-WordPress development community, scoff at it. Their association with WordPress is hacking themes and it’s not enjoyable work, but it can be great.

我一直都是自由职业者，差不多。 我从大学毕业就从事这项创业工作一年。 那是全职的事情。 从技术上讲它是在签约，但那时我仍在继续做自由项目。 但是我已经全职工作了大约七，八年。 我想出了这个WordPress利基市场。 很多人嘲笑它，尤其是在非WordPress开发社区中。 他们与WordPress的联系正在破解主题，虽然这不是一件令人愉快的工作，但它可能很棒。

Tim: 蒂姆：

I always find that scoffing a little bit ridiculous. I personally just completed a small WordPress, implementing a theme for a company and redoing the website all in WordPress. But man, if that isn’t tough work. There is really a lot of knowledge that you need to have. That is, for sure, the realest type of web development that you can do.

我总是觉得嘲笑有点荒谬。 我个人只是完成了一个小型WordPress，为一家公司实现了一个主题，并在WordPress中重做了所有网站。 但是，伙计，如果那不是艰巨的工作。 您确实需要掌握很多知识。 当然，这就是您可以执行的最真实的Web开发类型。

That being said, I have another question around productivity. You steped back after getting a little bit burned out with a crazy schedule. I’m wondering if your approach towards, and ideas about, productivity have changed after you’ve had this hiatus or sabbatical in between the time that you are doing a lot of work and then you stepped off a little bit. Are your ideas about productivity different after that whole transition that you went through?

话虽如此，我对生产力还有另一个疑问。 您因疯狂的日程安排而精疲力尽后退了一步。 我想知道在您完成大量工作然后稍稍降低工作量之后，在经历了这种休假或休假之后，您对生产率的态度和想法是否有所改变。 在经历了整个过渡之后，您对生产率的看法是否有所不同？

Lara: 拉拉：

That’s a good question. I have thought about that, for sure, because right now, any productive things I do are totally self driven. Everything is self driven, but I’m not working with a client right now. So it’s all like, Okay, I should write a blog post. I should write an email blast — that thing. I’ve been able, recently, to set small deadlines for myself. But there was an author of the Pastry Box (which no longer exists … I don’t know if you guys know that …)

这是个好问题。 我已经考虑过这一点，因为现在，我所做的任何富有成效的事情都完全是自我驱动的。 一切都是自我驱动的，但是我现在不与客户合作。 就像， 好吧，我应该写一篇博客文章。 我应该写一封电子邮件爆炸 -那件事。 最近，我已经为自己设定了一些小的截止日期。 但是有一个糕点盒的作者(不再存在……我不知道你们是否知道……)

David: 大卫：

I remember that. Which one was Pastry Box?

我记得那个。 糕点盒是哪一个？

Lara: 拉拉：

The Pastry Box Project … It was a website with just general thoughts from people in the web industry — some semi-technical things, but a lot of it was along the lines of productivity or just industry issues in a more social or general sense. He’s started a blog now about productivity and asked me to write an article for it. I was like I can’t. I have no idea. I think I scoff a lot at articles that are like you should work 10 minutes, break three minutes, whatever they are. Stand up, walk around. Everybody has their own thing. My (probably) biggest strategy is procrastinating … as weird as that sounds. The longer you have to do it, the longer it will take. If you shrink that down to the time you actually need to complete something, then it’s more efficient that way. Does that make sense?

Pastry Box项目 …这是一个网站，它仅包含Web界人士的一般想法-一些半技术性的东西，但其中很多是出于生产力的角度，或者只是更具社会或一般意义上的行业问题。 他现在开了一个关于生产力的博客，并请我为此写文章。 我好像不能。 我不知道 。 我认为我对诸如您应该工作10分钟，休息三分钟之类的文章大为嘲笑。 站起来，走走。 每个人都有自己的东西。 我的(可能)最大的策略是拖延……听起来很奇怪。 您必须做的时间越长，花费的时间就越长。 如果将时间缩减到实际需要完成的时间，那么这样做会更有效。 那有意义吗？

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. A very interesting strategy, indeed. I might try it, but I’ll probably get it wrong and just end up not doing a whole bunch of things.

是的，当然。 确实，这是一个非常有趣的策略。 我可能会尝试，但是我可能会弄错它，而最终却没有做很多事情。

[Chuckling]

[咯咯笑]

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah. I’m figuring out in terms of new perspectives, I think, I got to get things more underway now that I’m back, and see.

是的 我想我正在寻找新的观点，现在，我回来了，看到了，我必须做得更多。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Is there anything else that you’ve formed a completely new perspective on since you’ve taken this amazing-sounding break that I have been considering lately?

自从您采取了我最近一直在考虑的这个惊人的休假以来，您是否还对您形成了全新的看法？

Lara: 拉拉：

[Chuckles] Well … I think, not sweating small things. Like I mentioned emails before were a big stressor for me, because it’ll take me 20 minutes to write a two-sentence response to something sometimes. That’s, maybe, exaggeration, but I think realizing that stuff you might stress out about, other people are not stressed out about your response to. I’m like, o my gosh, I have to just write a little note about meeting up with someone and I’m thinking about the wording a whole bunch. It’s like, yeah, that’s kind of important, but at the same time, that’s a small part of another person’s life. So, maybe, don’t sweat the small stuff, I guess.

[笑声] 好吧 ……我想，不是在流小东西。 就像我之前提到的那样，电子邮件对我来说是一个很大的压力，因为有时我需要20分钟才能写出两句回应。 那也许是夸张的，但是我认为意识到您可能会强调的东西，而其他人则不会对您的回应感到压力。 我想，我的天哪，我只需要写一些关于与某人见面的笔记，我正在考虑一堆措词。 是的，这很重要，但同时，这只是另一个人一生的一小部分。 所以，也许吧，不要汗流the背。

Tim [12:05]: 蒂姆[12:05] ：

Also, an excellent tip for public speaking.

此外，这也是公开演讲的绝佳技巧。

Lara: 拉拉：

O, for sure.

哦，当然可以。

David: 大卫：

Speaking of public speaking, you also mentioned that you did some teaching as well and not everybody who does the development side of things is also comfortable getting in front of other people and teaching. Could you tell us a little bit about that side of your career?

说到公共演讲，您还提到过您也做了一些教学，并不是每个从事事物开发方面工作的人都愿意在其他人和教学面前站得住脚。 您能谈谈您的职业生涯吗？

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah, I love teaching. Particularly, beginners to intermediate. People that are just starting from no knowledge of what a website is or is made of, all the way to people that are getting into Gulp and Sass for the first time, or digging into WordPress development further and trying to customize sites — that kind of thing. One of my favorite parts about teaching is using metaphors to describe things, because, a lot of times, the things you read online or hear in videos — what have you, any materials — are so full of jargon. A lot of times, people just don’t understand these fundamental concepts. Something like how a client–server relationship works. I’ll abstract that into a restaurant, or I’ll use a metaphor of a human body for front-end technology. It’s like, HTML is the fact that your arm exists, and CSS is the color of your fingernails, and then JavaScript is like you poke me and I make a sound. Stuff like that, and breaking it into digestible chunks. I have a lot of fun with that, and a nice little inventory of metaphors.

是的，我喜欢教学。 特别是初学者到中级。 刚开始不了解网站或网站组成的人，一直到第一次进入Gulp和Sass的人，或者进一步研究WordPress开发并尝试自定义网站的人-事情。 我最喜欢的教学内容之一是使用隐喻来描述事物，因为很多时候，您在网上阅读或在视频中听到的事物(您拥有的任何材料)都充满了行话。 很多时候，人们只是不了解这些基本概念。 客户-服务器关系如何工作。 我将其抽象到餐厅中，或者将人体的隐喻用于前端技术。 就像，HTML是您的手臂存在的事实，CSS是指甲的颜色，然后JavaScript就像您戳我，然后发出声音。 这样的东西，然后将其分解成可消化的块。 我对此感到很开心，并且有了一些隐喻。

Tim: 蒂姆：

That’s my new favorite analogy. I’m definitely going to use that now. Thank you.

那是我新喜欢的类比。 我现在肯定会使用它。 谢谢。

Lara: 拉拉：

The other one I do is for media queries. I talk about starting with a baby — a baby which is like size zero and then progressively enhancing it, I guess. You move up, and like at age 10, the baby now has a little dress on, or long hair, and then age 21, they have a nose piercing, they’re holding a beer …

我要做的另一个是媒体查询。 我想说的是从一个婴儿开始-一个像零号的婴儿，然后逐步增强它。 你往上走，就像在10岁那年，婴儿现在穿了一点衣服或留着长发，然后在21岁那年，他们的鼻子扎了一下，拿着啤酒……

David: 大卫：

That sounds absolutely delightful.

听起来绝对令人愉快。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah. I like doing little white boarding stuff. I love teaching in person. It’s not always easy to find places for that. Especially like, now, in a new city. I use to teach at Pratt in New York, which is a design school. That was really fun, because it was talking to a lot of designers and visually minded people, which is my background. But whiteboarding and the physicality of it when you really get into what you’re talking about, I think, people appreciate a lot.

是的 我喜欢做些白色的东西。 我喜欢亲自授课。 找到这个地方并不总是那么容易。 尤其像现在，在一个新城市里。 我曾经在纽约的普拉特设计学校任教。 这真的很有趣，因为它与很多设计师和有视觉见识的人交谈，这就是我的背景。 但是，当您真正了解所要谈论的内容时，白板及其物理意义，我认为人们会非常感激。

David: 大卫：

I was going to ask about that. What background do you bring to the work that you’re doing? I know that in order to teach at a design school, you need some sort of credentials or some sort of masters or something. I’m curious — what background are you bringing to what you’re doing?

我正要问这个。 您为所从事的工作带来什么背景？ 我知道，要在设计学校任教，您需要某种证书或某种大师等。 我很好奇-您在做什么背景？

Lara: 拉拉：

Well, I have a degree in fine arts. I did printmaking for a long time, and then got into doing some web stuff in my senior year. One of my teachers was actually, You should learn how to make WordPress websites and then you can freelance and call your own shots. I was like Okay, I’ll try.

好吧，我拥有美术学位。 我做了很长时间的版画工作，然后在大四时开始做一些网络工作。 我的一位老师实际上是， 您应该学习如何制作WordPress网站，然后可以自由职业并自己做主 。 我就像好吧，我会尽力的。

David: 大卫：

You really took that and ran.

你真的接受了，然后跑了。

Lara: 拉拉：

I figured it out. I took it very literally. That’s how I got started there. But yeah, I have a design/fine arts background. I did some design and branding work in logos, but I’m not interested in doing that anymore.

我想到了。 我真的很明白。 这就是我从那里开始的方式。 但是，是的，我有设计/美术背景。 我在徽标中做了一些设计和品牌推广工作，但是我对此不再感兴趣。

David: 大卫：

I think it’s encouraging to hear about more people who are getting into this field without degrees in engineering, for example. I know that a lot of the people we’ve interviewed don’t have that engineering background. I’m curious how you trained yourself — what resources you used to figure out what you needed to know in order to do what you’re doing?

例如，我认为令人鼓舞的是，听到越来越多的人进入该领域而没有工程学学位。 我知道我们采访的很多人都不具备工程学背景。 我很好奇您如何训练自己-过去曾使用哪些资源弄清楚自己需要知道的知识才能做自己正在做的事情？

Lara: 拉拉：

I think having a project is the most important part. Google, I’m sure a lot of people can relate to that. I never really did tutorials too much. I’ve never had the attention span for it, really. It’s always learning what you need to know for a specific task. One of the projects this teacher gave me in the end of college was to remake this WordPress theme. That was a super-specific goal. He did give me some guidance along the way. He was like You should figure how to do this now, and gave me some Google terms, some words to look up and tasks to accomplish. I think a project with general guidance is important.

我认为拥有项目是最重要的部分。 Google，我相信很多人都可以与之相关。 我从来没有真正做太多的教程。 真的，我从来没有关注过它。 它总是在学习您需要了解的特定任务。 这位老师在大学期末给我的项目之一是重塑此WordPress主题。 那是一个超具体的目标。 他确实给了我一些指导。 他就像是您现在应该弄清楚该怎么做，并给了我一些Google术语，一些要查找的单词和要完成的任务。 我认为有一般指导的项目很重要。

Obviously, there’s a lot of emphasis on learning to code now through various venues, code schools, online schools, things like that. A lot of it is stuffing your brain with words and things people are not understanding. In that amount of time, it’s impossible to become a super-qualified software engineer in three months. I think things like boot camps — I have a lot of opinions about this. Things like boot camps can be great for jumping off point, and really give people a good inventory of terms and concepts within the industry, but it’s not like the be all end all. You have to have real project experience. A lot of them are doing good things, but it’s still a little bit of an iterative process.

显然，现在非常重视通过各种场所，代码学校，在线学校等来学习编码。 很多事情使人们无法理解的单词和事物塞满了您的大脑。 在这段时间内，不可能在三个月内成为一名超级合格的软件工程师。 我认为像新兵训练营一样-我对此有很多看法。 像新兵训练营这样的东西很适合作为起点，并确实为人们提供了行业中的术语和概念的详尽清单，但是这并非一帆风顺。 您必须具有真实的项目经验。 他们中的许多人都做得很好，但这仍然是一个反复的过程。

David [16:30]: 大卫[16:30] ：

A lot of the boot camps focus on getting people very quickly from graduating from the boot camp into an actual company where they can start applying the things that they’re learning. I think that’s really where the learning happens — when you take the things that you’ve learned in those boot camps and you start using them in real projects, with real colleagues.

许多新手训练营都专注于使人们从新兵训练营毕业后Swift成长为一家真正的公司，在那里他们可以开始应用所学的东西。 我认为这确实是学习的地方-当您将在新手训练营中学到的东西拿来，并开始与真正的同事一起在实际项目中使用它们时。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah, totally. Well, what I think is is ironic about these boot camps (maybe this has changed in the months I’ve been off, but …) a lot of people I met in New York ended up … they graduated from the General Assembly — whatever web development boot camp — and they end up working with WordPress, because there’s so much work in WordPress, and there’s still low barrier to entry. So you need a portfolio, and your mom’s cousin pays you $500 to make their WordPress website. That’s valid work experience, and it’s going to be really frustrating and difficult, and you’re going to learn a lot from it. I think it’d be cool if there was more emphasis on getting work experience through freelancing. Because a lot of times, tech companies aren’t going to hire people straight out of boot camp, because there’s a big learning curve and it may put pressure on other staff or other employees to train someone into that role.

是的，完全是。 好吧，我认为这些训练营具有讽刺意味(也许在我休假的几个月里，情况有所改变，但是……)我在纽约遇到的很多人最终……他们毕业于联合国大会-无论是在网上开发新手训练营-他们最终使用WordPress，因为WordPress中的工作量很大，而且进入门槛仍然很低。 因此，您需要一个投资组合，而您妈妈的堂兄付给您$ 500来建立他们的WordPress网站。 那是有效的工作经验，这将是令人沮丧和困难的，您将从中学到很多东西。 我认为，如果更加强调通过自由职业获得工作经验，那将很酷。 很多时候，技术公司不会直接从新手训练营招募人员，因为学习曲线很大，并且可能给其他员工或其他员工施加压力，要求他们培训某个人担任这一职位。

David: 大卫：

You raise a very valid point. In fact, I’m curious whether you’ve thought about doing some training around how to freelance effectively, which is something, I think, a lot of people need to know about.

您提出了一个非常有效的观点。 实际上，我很好奇您是否考虑过关于如何有效地自由职业的培训，我认为这是很多人需要知道的事情。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah. I’ve definitely thought … It’s hard. I tried to — not tried, I did and it wasn’t bad — but I built this online course called, the Tackle Box. That is not necessarily about freelancing, but it’s teaching web development from the ground up. I’ve definitely thought about doing something along the lines of freelancing with WordPress. It would be cool to have a boot camp around that, or maybe some part-time thing at least. This guy — Paul Jarvis, his name is — has a really good online course called Creative Class that’s all about freelancing. That’s a good way to get started with that too. I’ve definitely thought about it and it always comes up whenever I teach — a lot of questions about that like pricing, proposals, and that stuff. It just takes a long time to learn.

是的 我肯定想过……很难。 我曾尝试过-没尝试过，但我做过，而且还不错-但我建立了名为Tackle Box的在线课程。 那不一定与自由职业有关，而是从头开始教授Web开发。 我肯定考虑过使用WordPress自由职业做一些事情。 有一个新手训练营是很酷的，或者至少是一些兼职。 这个人(保罗·贾维斯(Paul Jarvis)，他的名字叫–)有一门非常不错的在线课程，称为“ 创意课堂” ，这与自由职业有关。 这也是开始的好方法。 我已经考虑过了，在我教书的时候总是会出现这样的问题-有关价格，建议和诸如此类的很多问题。 学习只需要很长时间。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, especially with WordPress. It goes so deep, right? I’ve been a Core contributor to WordPress on, at least, one occasion. There are, still, different APIs, and functions, and just so many different things that you can do within that piece of software. It would be very interesting to — I don’t know — you could definitely teach a class for a very long time on WordPress itself.

是的，尤其是WordPress。 太深了吧？ 我至少有一次是WordPress的核心贡献者。 仍然有不同的API和功能，以及可以在该软件中执行的许多不同操作。 我不知道，您肯定可以在WordPress本身上教授很长时间的课程，这将非常有趣。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah, totally. WordPress is also a Wild West in its own right, but there’s such a huge range of what a WordPress website can be. I’ve always used the analogy of cars or even weddings. Your WordPress website made from a theme is, maybe, your 1994 Dodge Neon, or walking to City Hall to get married. You can have a Tesla version of a website, or rent out a private island wedding. When people are like, How much does a website cost? Like Well, let’s talk about this.

是的，完全是。 WordPress本身也是一个狂野的西部，但是WordPress网站的种类繁多。 我一直都用比喻汽车，甚至婚礼。 您以主题为主题的WordPress网站可能是您1994年的Dodge Neon，或者是步行到市政厅结婚。 您可以拥有网站的Tesla版本，也可以租用私人岛屿婚礼。 当人们喜欢时， 一个网站要多少钱？ 像嘛，让我们谈谈这个。

A big thing I figured out during my time in New York was to give people options. I would say, Okay, maybe you don’t know what you need. A lot of times you start talking to someone who needs a website. They don’t need a website. They need a business plan.

在纽约期间，我想到的一件大事就是给人们提供选择的机会。 我会说， 好的，也许您不知道需要什么。 很多时候，您开始与需要网站的人交谈。 他们并不需要一个网站。 他们需要一个商业计划。

It can really vary. I’ll say, Okay. Well, let’s do this brainstorming session, and I’ll write up some recommendations for you, and I’ll give you a price for that. Maybe that’s $500. If you want me to teach you how to make your website, because you’re going to change your mind too much for me to do it for you, then we could do some kind of tutoring package. That goes all the way up to a five-figure site, which is a super custom site, and all the focus is really on content structure and making it as maintainable as possible.

它确实可以变化。 我会说， 好的。 好吧，让我们做这个头脑风暴会议，我会为您写一些建议，并为此给您一个价格。 也许那是500美元。 如果您想让我教您如何创建网站，因为您将改变主意而无法为我代劳，那么我们可以提供某种辅导包。 一直到一个五位数的网站，这是一个超级自定义网站，所有焦点实际上都集中在内容结构上，并使其尽可能地易于维护。

David [20:18]: 大卫[20:18] ：

Yeah, the business models around that — you can set up so many different ways to do that. What’s amazing is that WordPress is versatile enough to support such a wide range of things. I was recently listening to an interview with Matt Mullenweg, the guy who founded WordPress and who runs Automattic Lounge in San Francisco with — I think he’s got 500 employees, and they’re jointly responsible for 25% of the traffic on the internet or something.

是的，围绕它的业务模型-您可以设置许多不同的方法来做到这一点。 令人惊讶的是，WordPress具有足够的通用性，可以支持如此广泛的功能。 我最近在听马特·穆伦维格(Matt Mullenweg)的采访，马特·穆伦维格(Matt Mullenweg)是谁创建了WordPress，并与旧金山一起经营Automattic Lounge —我认为他有500名员工，并且他们共同负责互联网上25％的流量。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah. It’s pretty wild. Automattic is a company you can work for and fulfill the living-everywhere dream too. I think they have completely remote employees. But WordPress is such a cool project, too. Just how everything operates, open source-wise. Tons of contributors. Anybody can be. It’s also interesting to see the division of who contributes to WordPress. Automattic, the company, has a large portion of it. Just the general community members are. A lot of agencies will have employees that work full time on WordPress Core as contributors, and it’s all free. It’s such a cool thing and great community, very varied community too.

是的 蛮荒的 您可以为Automattic工作，并实现无处不在的梦想。 我认为他们有完全远程的员工。 但是WordPress也是一个很酷的项目。 一切运作方式，都是开源的。 大量的贡献者。 任何人都可以。 看到谁对WordPress做出贡献的划分也很有趣。 该公司Automattic拥有很大一部分。 只是一般社区成员。 许多代理商都会聘请在WordPress Core上全职工作的员工作为撰稿人，而且都是免费的。 这是一件很酷的事情，很棒的社区，社区也非常多。

David: 大卫：

It’s something you can feel good about participating in. I’ve worked in startups and folks have dissed the trashy PHP back-end code, and said a lot of negative things about the way that the code is structured in WordPress. But the fact that it is such a big, open-source project, and it has had such a massive effect on the internet, what you’ve done essentially is by specializing in this, you’ve created a niche for yourself that is really very broad.

参与其中会让您感觉很好。我曾在初创公司工作过，人们已经弃用了垃圾PHP后端代码，并对WordPress中的代码结构方式表示了很多负面意见。 但是，这是一个很大的开放源代码项目，并且对互联网产生了如此巨大的影响，实际上，您所做的基本上是通过专门研究这一点，您为自己创建了一个利基市场非常广泛。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah. The biggest thing is how users take to it. With the kind of sites I do, I use Advanced Custom Fields, which is a plug-in that allows you to easily add custom fields to the WordPress back end. You can create these super modular content blocks. Whenever I do a site for a client, we map out everything ahead of time. The next step is build out the database structure. Then they add content immediately and see if the back end is comfortable. For example, I did a site for a graphic design company, and they sell stationary, and there were different collections. We have the collections model, essentially and then the collections have pieces, and then each piece has dimensions, and colors, and things like that. But all of that can be editable in the back end of WordPress. Yeah, it does scale strangely at a certain point, but that kind of power with such accessible technology is really cool and being able to customize it that way.

是的 最大的事情就是用户如何看待它。 对于我所使用的网站类型，我使用Advanced Custom Fields ，这是一个插件，可让您轻松地将自定义字段添加到WordPress后端。 您可以创建这些超级模块化内容块。 每当我为客户建立网站时，我们都会提前计划所有内容。 下一步是建立数据库结构。 然后他们立即添加内容，并查看后端是否舒适。 例如，我为一家平面设计公司做了一个网站，他们出售文具，并且有不同的收藏。 我们有一个集合模型，从本质上讲，集合有几块，然后每一块都有尺寸，颜色和类似的东西。 但是所有这些都可以在WordPress的后端中进行编辑。 是的，它确实在某个点上的缩放比例很奇怪，但是使用这种可访问技术的这种功能真的很酷，并且能够以这种方式进行自定义。

Of course, some of these premium themes are just like a disaster, with page builders and what not, but that’s a whole other can of worms.

当然，其中一些高级主题就像灾难一样 ，它包含页面构建器，而没有页面构建器，但这完全是其他蠕虫病毒。

David: 大卫：

Well, I’m sure that there are a lot of people out here are going to want to find out how they can get in touch with you and maybe learn some more about how they can up their WordPress chops. How do people find you online?

好吧，我敢肯定，这里有很多人会想找出他们如何与您取得联系，并可能会学到更多有关如何增加WordPress印章的信息。 人们如何在线找到您？

Lara: 拉拉：

Sure. On Twitter, I’m @laras126. It’s important to note L-a-r-a. My website is notlaura.com — so not L-a-u-r-a.

当然。 在Twitter上，我是@ laras126 。 请务必注意拉拉。 我的网站是notlaura.com ，所以不是Laura 。

David: 大卫：

[Chuckling] I’m guessing that’s something that comes up a lot for you.

[咯咯笑]我猜这对你来说很重要。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah, it does come up a lot. My email address is lara@notlaura.com. Whenever I get emails from people that have definitely typed that into their to: field, and they’re still like Hey, Laura, blah, blah. I’m like, I don’t know if I ever want to write back to you.

是的，确实有很多。 我的电子邮件地址是lara@notlaura.com。 每当我收到肯定在他们的to:字段中输入过电子邮件的人的电子邮件时，他们仍然像Hey，Laura，等等等等。 我想， 我不知道我是否想回信给您。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah. I think when we first met, that was how I learned your name: just don’t call me Laura. I was like All right. It stuck ever since. At least, I hope.

是的 我想我们第一次见面时，就是这样得知我的名字的： 只是不要叫我劳拉 。 我就像好吧 。 从那以后它就卡住了。 至少，我希望如此。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah.

是的

David: 大卫：

That is strong branding.

那是强大的品牌。

Lara: 拉拉：

The most important part is spelling it correctly, but yeah, notlaura.com has a description of my philosophy and stuff I do up there, and on Twitter, I suppose.

最重要的部分是正确拼写，但是是的，notlaura.com对我的哲学和我在那里所做的事情进行了描述，我想在Twitter上。

David: 大卫：

Fantastic. Well, thank you, Lara for joining us today.

太棒了 好，谢谢您，Lara今天加入了我们。

Lara: 拉拉：

Yeah. Thanks for having me. Great to talk to you guys.

是的 感谢您的款待。 很高兴与你们交谈。

[Musical interlude]

[音乐插曲]

David [24:04]: 大卫[24:04] ：

One of the things Lara mentioned that really touched me — in a soft place in my heart — was the issue about taking too long to respond to emails, and not respecting the true asynchronous nature of email.

拉拉提到的让我真正感动的一件事-在我内心深处的一个柔软的地方-是关于花太多时间来回复电子邮件，而不尊重电子邮件的真正异步性质的问题。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah. I started working as a freelancer and then moved into working at individual companies and businesses, and I noticed there is a little bit of stress that comes with responding and replying to emails. I’ve noticed myself taking too much time worrying about how the wording should be, or if someone is going to view the sentence negatively if there’s not an exclamation point at the end. That can really be a stressful thing that you wouldn’t guess.

是的 我开始以自由职业者的身份工作，然后进入各个公司和企业工作，我注意到响应和回复电子邮件会有些压力。 我注意到自己花了太多时间担心措辞应该如何，或者如果结尾处没有感叹号，有人是否会否定地看这句话。 那真的是一件您不会猜到的压力大的事情。

David: 大卫：

I think, maybe, Twitter has trained us badly, since you have to be so careful about every character in a tweet that you end up becoming that way with absolutely everything that you write — including emails you should be able to dash off in a few minutes or a few seconds.

我认为，也许，Twitter对我们的训练很差，因为您必须对一条推文中的每个字符都非常谨慎，以致最终您写的所有内容最终都变成了这种样子-包括电子邮件，您应该可以在其中写一些分钟或几秒钟。

Tim: 蒂姆：

I would like to see a little bit more brevity emphasized in communication between emails. You don’t need to write a story and end with ensuring that its reader has a positive day. That’s not on you. Just communicate the message and go on with your day … or at least, that’s what I try to tell myself.

我希望看到电子邮件之间的交流更加简洁。 您无需编写故事，也不必确保故事的读者过得愉快。 那不关你的事。 只是传达信息并继续您的一天……至少，这就是我试图告诉自己的事情。

David: 大卫：

That’s what I try to tell myself too, but like Lara, I have had the issue of feeling burned out. I think a lot of it, also, for me comes from the stress of the responsibility that I take on when I try to manage communications. Sometimes it just feels to me like … I take too much of it on myself and feel as if I’m projecting all of these little nuances that can’t possibly be conveyed in ASCII characters.

这也是我试图告诉自己的，但是像劳拉一样，我也有感觉疲倦的问题。 对于我来说，我认为很多原因还来自于我在尝试管理通讯时承担的责任压力。 有时对我来说，感觉就像…………我对自己太多了，觉得好像我在投射所有这些不可能以ASCII字符传达的细微差别。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah. Can I just say, I was amazed — I’m not exaggerating here — amazed at Lara’s bravery. I can’t imagine taking a five-month break from just anything. I would be way, way too stressed to do that. But she managed to plan a little bit — plan this out so that she could have that five-month break and do some amazing things. Like decide to just bartend in a ski resort in Utah for a couple of months. Just because that’s something that sounds cool and that she’s obviously good at. But again, thinking about pretty much any habit that I have in my life right now, taking a five-month break from that sounds just terrifying. I think I would be way too paralyzed with fear to take a break like that from work and yet, it sounds so invigorating and it’s an honestly healthy thing to do.

是的 我可以说，我很惊讶-我在这里并不夸张-对拉拉的英勇感到惊讶。 我无法想象从任何事情中休假五个月。 我会非常压力地这样做。 但是她设法进行了一些计划—计划了一下，这样她可以有五个月的休息时间并做一些令人惊奇的事情。 像是决定在犹他州的一个滑雪胜地调酒几个月。 只是因为那听起来很酷，而且她显然很擅长。 但是，再次想一想，我现在生活中几乎有什么习惯，从中休假五个月听起来简直太恐怖了。 我想我会因为恐惧而瘫痪，无法像这样下班休息，但是听起来很振奋，而且确实是一件健康的事情。

David: 大卫：

Well, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.

好吧，在尝试之前不要敲它。

Tim: 蒂姆：

[Chuckles] Yes!

[笑声]是的！

David: 大卫：

I have retired at least twice in my career. I follow the adage of Retire early, retire often. The first time, it was a very scary and unusual feeling. I had been working full-time. I think I visit Apple Computer for a bunch of years, and then I was at salon.com for a while, and then I just retired. I walked away from everything and did not set myself up with any plan about returning to the type of work that I’d been doing. In fact, when I came back to work, I was doing completely different things. It was revolutionary for my brain. It really allowed me to change my focus and think about things in ways that I wouldn’t have expected. It was a very scary thing, because I’d come straight out of college, straight into work. In fact, I’d started working before I graduated at the same company that I worked at. This was Apple for years. And then to suddenly be without daily responsibilities, without anybody expecting me to wake up early in the morning and write something or respond to something, it was just a major life change.

我职业生涯至少退休了两次。 我很喜欢退休的格言，经常退休 。 第一次，这是一种非常恐怖和不寻常的感觉。 我一直在全职工作。 我想我访问Apple Computer已有很多年了，然后我在salon.com住了一段时间，然后退休了。 我没有做任何事情，也没有为自己的计划设定任何恢复工作的计划。 实际上，当我回到工作岗位时，我所做的事情完全不同。 这对我的大脑来说是革命性的。 确实，这使我能够改变我的注意力，并以我意想不到的方式思考事情。 这是一件非常可怕的事情，因为我会直接从大学毕业，然后直接上班。 实际上，我在毕业于同一家公司之前就已经开始工作。 这是苹果多年。 然后突然没有日常职责，没有人期望我一大早起床并写点东西或做出回应，那只是人生的重大改变。

Tim: 蒂姆：

I think, for now, I will just have to stand back from a far and watch and admire. It’s too scary a though for me, to be honest!

我认为，就目前而言，我将不得不从远处退缩并观看和欣赏。 老实说，这对我来说太可怕了！

David: 大卫：

I don’t know. I recommend it. I recommend thinking about your life in terms of those retirements and planning on taking more than one.

我不知道。 我推荐它。 我建议从退休的角度考虑您的生活，并计划退休不止一次。

Tim: 蒂姆：

It sounds like we’re going to have to title this episode, Tim has an existential crisis.

听起来我们将不得不为此集标题， 蒂姆(Tim)存在生存危机 。

David [28:02]: 大卫[28:02] ：

Isn’t that the title of every episode that we’ve done?

这不是我们完成的每一集的标题吗？

Tim: 蒂姆：

[Laughter]

[笑声]

It may as well be! Very interesting to know, but I think, honestly, Lara’s journey has been very interesting and that’s why I asked her to come on the show. I would love to see a conference talk — or maybe even a book — on those five months, because I think something understated on this show and I think everywhere else is the value of taking time off. It is not something that we praise. It is not something that we talk about enough in this career, or, really, anywhere in the professional world, but it is so helpful. It is so important.

可能是这样！ 知道很有趣，但是老实说，我认为Lara的旅程非常有趣，这就是为什么我要她参加演出。 我希望看到这五个月的会议演讲，甚至一本书，因为我认为本次演出中有些低估了，我认为在其他地方，放假都是有价值的。 这不是我们赞扬的东西。 在这个职业中，或者实际上，在职业世界中的任何地方，我们谈论的内容都不多，但这很有帮助。 非常重要

David: 大卫：

I’ll refer you back to the Protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism, and the whole notion that we have to be working ourselves, essentially, to death in order to maintain our standing in our society. It’s something that, I think, comes from being Americans. For the most of the world, it’s not part of the ethos of their cultures.

我将把您带回到新教的伦理和资本主义的精神，以及整个观念，即为了维持我们在社会中的地位，我们必须从根本上努力到死。 我认为这是来自美国人。 对于世界大多数地区来说，这不是他们文化风气的一部分。

Tim: 蒂姆：

It is definitely something that’s a defining characteristic of our culture. I do find myself every once in a while thinking that I let the stress of work get to me a little bit too much. To be honest, if we’re going to talk about how to be a really good developer, part of that involves taking breaks, and part of that involves learning how to reduce the amount of stress, if it is possible.

这绝对是我们文化的决定性特征。 我确实每隔一段时间就会发现自己，以为我让工作压力过大。 老实说，如果我们要谈论如何成为一名真正的优秀开发人员，其中一部分涉及休息，而部分内容涉及学习如何减少压力(如果可能)。

David: 大卫：

One of the things that I’ve been doing is a mindfulness practice. I have found that very helpful in terms of reinstating that sense of calm and connection to a larger source, to a place where I feel safe in the universe, when things seem chaotic in my local environment. Just being calm, being mindful, taking that 20-minute break every day. It’s once a day, a little bit of meditation. It can really help centre you. The trick is not to do it as bandage to cover up the stresses that you’re putting on your life, but rather to do it as an opportunity to remind yourself that you don’t need to do that to yourself.

我一直在做的一件事是正念练习。 我发现在恢复那种平静感以及与更大资源的联系，到我在宇宙中感到安全的地方(当我的周围环境中的事物看起来混乱)方面，这非常有帮助。 只是保持镇定，注意，每天休息20分钟。 每天一次，需要一点点冥想。 它确实可以帮助您居中。 诀窍不是将其作为绷带来掩盖您生活中的压力，而是将其作为机会来提醒自己，您不需要自己这样做。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. I would say, everybody needs something like that that they can continually come back to and ground themselves on. But that being said, let’s segue just right into WordPress — to stress out our listeners as much as possible!

是的，当然。 我要说的是，每个人都需要类似的东西，以便他们可以不断地回到自己的基础上。 话虽这么说，让我们直接选择WordPress –尽可能地向听众施加压力！

David: 大卫：

Yes. I notice you brought Lara on, and I know you’re a WordPress developer, and I know she’s a WordPress developer. I figured that had something to do with it.

是。 我注意到您带来了Lara，而且我知道您是WordPress开发人员，并且我知道她是WordPress开发人员。 我认为这与它有关。

Tim: 蒂姆：

It was refreshing to hear her talk about how often people can diss WordPress. It is an easy target, I think, but I have to say I had front row seats to their release process, and the amount of forethought and planning that goes into every release cycle is unbelievable. There are security teams and different developers specialized across a number of disciplines that look into every single line of code for every release they have. It is impeccably well done. Actually, there’s a release lead for every single time they release. It coordinates all of these groups together to make sure that everything that gets into needs to. It’s an incredibly well thought out and detailed process.

听到她谈论人们多久会厌恶WordPress的话题，这真是令人耳目一新。 我认为这是一个容易实现的目标，但是我不得不说，我在他们的发布过程中占据了前排的席位，而且在每个发布周期中涉及的前瞻性和计划性令人难以置信。 安全团队和不同领域的开发人员不同，他们针对每个发行版的每一行代码进行研究。 它做得无可挑剔。 实际上，他们每次发布都有一个发布线索。 它协调所有这些组，以确保需要的所有内容。 这是一个经过深思熟虑的详细过程。

David: 大卫：

Considering how much of the internet runs on WordPress, it has to be.

考虑到有多少互联网可以在WordPress上运行，必须如此。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, exactly, and they take that seriously. It is literally 25% of the internet. There is not a soul on that team or who has contributed to that project who doesn’t have that hang over their head whenever they’re working on it.

是的，的确如此，他们对此非常重视。 它实际上是互联网的25％。 该团队中没有灵魂，也没有为该项目做出过贡献的人，只要他们在进行该项目，就不会挂在他们的头上。

David: 大卫：

It blows my mind when I think about it. The scale of it is so massive. I’ve worked in SoMa in San Francisco and I’ve walked over to the Automattic Lounge. I’ve even been inside and chatted with the folks in there. It’s very sparsely populated. There isn’t a large group of people there, usually, because a lot of people of that company work remotely. It’s amazing how they coordinate and get so much done.

当我想到它时，这让我震惊。 它的规模是如此之大。 我曾在旧金山的SoMa工作，然后走进了Automattic Lounge。 我什至一直在里面和那里的人聊天。 人口稀少。 通常，那里没有很多人，因为该公司的很多人都在远程工作。 他们如何协调并完成许多工作真是太神奇了。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah. It is, really, an incredible thing. If you have a chance to get into the WordPress community and contribute, I would say, definitely take it. I learned so much, and even if, maybe, only one or two lines of my original project made it into WordPress Core, it was 100% worth it. I would say, again, before you judge any open-source software, think about what goes through the head of people contributing to it, especially when it’s something that is used by so many people. It might be an easy target, but you’re more than likely or almost always not giving it enough credit.

是的 这确实是一件不可思议的事情。 如果您有机会进入WordPress社区并做出贡献，我肯定会接受。 我学到了很多东西，即使我最初的项目只有一两行进入了WordPress Core，还是100％值得。 我想再说一遍，在您判断任何开源软件之前，请先思考一下为它做出贡献的人们的想法， 特别是当它被许多人使用时。 这可能是一个简单的目标，但您很有可能或几乎始终没有给予它足够的信誉。

David [32:20]: 大卫[32:20] ：

Finding those easy targets, though — the things that people are dissing so easily — sometimes can be a great career choice. I remember myself, when I got myself back out of my retirement and started working my way up to being an engineer, I targeted CSS, because everybody hated CSS and nobody wanted to deal with it. These were back in the IE6 days.

不过，找到那些容易达成的目标-人们如此轻松地解决的事情-有时可能是一个不错的职业选择。 我记得自己，当我退出退休生活并开始努力成为一名工程师时，我的目标是CSS，因为每个人都讨厌CSS，而且没人愿意处理它。 这些都回到了IE6时代。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Oh, man.

天啊。

David: 大卫：

It was a challenge, but because I dove in and because I loved it and I was able to take it on, people were just flocking to me to find my CSS skills because nobody else wanted to deal with any of that. I think Lara has done much the same thing. She’s built a career for herself around something that is incredibly popular and incredibly unpopular at the same time.

这是一个挑战，但是因为我参与其中，并且因为我喜欢它并且能够接受它，所以人们只是蜂拥而至，以寻找我CSS技能，因为没人愿意处理任何这些。 我认为劳拉做了很多相同的事情。 她为自己的事业建立了自己的职业，同时又受到了难以置信的欢迎。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah. You can tell that she’s very passionate about teaching, specifically. The analogy of media queries being compared to a human growing up from infancy to adulthood was just genius. I felt like I was rediscovering CSS media queries as I was hearing about it. It’s like, O my goodness, I can connect these pieces in such a different way.

是的 你可以说她特别对教学充满热情。 媒体查询被比喻成一个从婴儿期到成年的人类，这只是天才。 听到它的声音，我感觉就像是在重新发现CSS媒体查询。 我的天哪，我可以用不同的方式连接这些零件。

David: 大卫：

Yep. It was mobile-first development, and presented in a way that just makes it material, makes it solid for you.

是的 它是移动优先的开发，并且以使它变得实质性，对您牢固的方式呈现。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah. It’s something that everyone can have a frame of reference for. Everyone has a human body. If you’re able to connect that to how HTML, CSS, and JavaScript relate to each other, there is not a person in the room who’s not going to be able to grasp that or walk away at the end of that lesson thinking, I understand this a little bit better now.

是的 每个人都可以参考它。 每个人都有一个人体。 如果您能够将它们与HTML，CSS和JavaScript相互关联的方式联系在一起，那么在教室中没有人无法理解这一点，或者在课程结束时都不会离开， 我现在更好地理解这一点。

David: 大卫：

You can tell that she’s somebody who really loves to teach. I hope that she will teach some of those business practices that she was talking about. Because, as she said, people come to her for WordPress sites, but what they really need are business plans.

你可以说她是一个非常喜欢教书的人。 我希望她会讲一些她正在谈论的商业惯例。 正如她所说，因为人们来找她访问WordPress网站，但他们真正需要的是业务计划。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, that’s also something that I wish I had heard earlier on in my career. There are plenty of times — and not just freelancing, in companies too — where you’ll get a specification for a new product or a new application and it comes to you in such a way that it is basically just a set of shadows. It’s a set of poorly defined concepts, and yet you’re expected to build an application out of it. We all know how that process turns out. It turns into a lot of reworking things that you’ve already done, and frustration, and rebuilds, and bugs. It turns into this whole soupy mess. It is so much more helpful to turn around if you can and say, What you’re asking for is a new thing, but what you need is to clearly define the concept that you’re presenting.

是的，这也是我希望在职业生涯的早期就听到的。 在很多时候，不仅是公司的自由职业，您还会获得有关新产品或新应用程序的规范，而这些规范以基本上只是一堆阴影的方式出现在您面前。 这是一组定义不明确的概念，但是您仍希望以此为基础构建应用程序。 我们都知道该过程是如何进行的。 它变成了许多您已经完成的工作，沮丧，重建和错误。 变成整个烂摊子。 如果可以的话，转身说， 您要的是新事物，这是非常有用的，但是您需要的是清楚地定义您要呈现的概念。

David: 大卫：

I think there’s also an agile solution to that that allows things to be a little bit more murky and still move forward. But it’s true — a lot of companies do find themselves in a situation where they’re asking for one thing, but what they really need is another thing. It can be completely clear to the engineers, and completely unclear to the people who are doing the asking.

我认为，还有一个敏捷的解决方案，可以使事情变得更加模糊，并且仍在向前发展。 但这是真的-许多公司确实发现自己处在要求一件事的情况下，但他们真正需要的是另一件事。 对于工程师来说，这可能是完全清楚的，而对提出要求的人来说，则可能是完全不清楚的。

Tim: 蒂姆：

I am curious, because that’s actually something that I’m dealing with right now in my current company. What is the agile solution to that?

我很好奇，因为这实际上是我目前在我当前公司中正在处理的事情。 敏捷的解决方案是什么？

David: 大卫：

Quit.

退出。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Ah …

啊...

David: 大卫：

No.

没有。

Tim: 蒂姆：

End the episode right there!

在这里结束剧集！

[Laughter]

[笑声]

David: 大卫：

I know. The agile solution is to allow people to define specific requirements that go from the top of the product to the bottom of the product and create a slice that can completed within a specific scope of time, and then see where you are and move forward from there. But define very clearly one small incremental step that you can take to move from where you are to what the next increment of the product is going to be. Don’t think about the wild blue yonder where the product is going to be six months down the road and tell the engineers, Okay, I’ll come back in six months and see if it’s ready yet. You have to work step by step with people and make sure that what you’re doing every step along the way is moving you in a direction that makes sense from a business perspective and also from an engineering perspective.

我知道。 敏捷的解决方案是使人们能够定义从产品顶部到产品底部的特定需求，并创建可以在特定时间范围内完成的切片，然后查看您的位置并从那里继续前进。 但是，要非常清楚地定义一个小增量步骤，您可以从该位置转移到产品的下一个增量。 不要想想产品将要走六个月的荒野，告诉工程师， 好吧，我六个月后会回来，看看是否已经准备好了。 您必须与人们逐步合作，并确保您在整个过程中所做的每一步都朝着从业务角度和工程角度都有意义的方向发展。

Tim [36:12]: 蒂姆[36:12] ：

That is brilliant. The more companies that I work at every couple of years, the more I realize that every single company just needs a full-time agile coach, 100%. Work would be so much easier.

那太好了。 每两年我工作的公司越多，我越意识到每家公司只需要100％的全职敏捷教练。 工作会容易得多。

David: 大卫：

Everybody can be out there advocating for these techniques and advocating for these approaches. It’s not that difficult, and you don’t have to have a certification, you don’t have to have advanced training. The principles are very simple, and I’ve never met an engineer who hasn’t been able to grasp them and apply them pretty quickly and easily once they’re explained.

每个人都可以在那里倡导这些技术和倡导这些方法。 并不是那么困难，而且您不必拥有认证，也不需要接受高级培训。 这些原理非常简单 ，而且我从未见过一位工程师，一旦解释了这些原理 ，工程师就无法掌握并Swift，轻松地应用它们。

Tim: 蒂姆：

That’s true. It’s working out the same way for me. The more I witness the hours that agile fixes, the more I understand agile, and then the more I can yell at my superiors about implementing agile.

确实如此。 对我来说，效果也一样。 我越目睹了敏捷的修复时间，就越了解敏捷，然后我对上级大喊大叫就实现了敏捷。

David: 大卫：

Of course, that’s just the engineering side of things. As Lara said, so many people are coming to their engineers, or, essentially, to the people they’re trying to hire to build their WordPress sites, not knowing what they need and actually needing a business plan rather than needing the product that they think that they need.

当然，那只是工程方面的事情。 正如Lara所说，有很多人来找他们的工程师，或者基本上就是他们要雇用的人来建立他们的WordPress网站，他们不知道他们需要什么，实际上需要一个商业计划，而不是他们需要的产品认为他们需要。

Tim: 蒂姆：

The other thing that I found interesting was how Lara’s view of productivity shifted after she took her break. I often find myself right before I feel burned out thinking that I’m very productive, and then all of a sudden, I step back and realize that I might be productive, but I’m also overworked. How would you balance those two things? Have you felt that before? If so, what are your strategies for dealing with that?

我发现有趣的另一件事是劳拉休息后如何改变生产力的观点。 我常常在发现自己觉得自己非常有生产力之前就精疲力尽，然后突然间，我退后一步，意识到自己可能有生产力，但是我也过度劳累。 您如何平衡这两件事？ 你以前有过这种感觉吗？ 如果是这样，您的处理策略是什么？

David: 大卫：

Well, personally, what I have tried to do is incorporate practices into my own life like meditation and mindfulness that allow me to be more aware of what I’m doing to myself along the way, and trying to set reasonable expectations for myself. But there do come times when you’ve built up so much that’s going on around you that retirement, really, is an appropriate approach. I applaud her for making the choice to retire and step out of things and give herself some perspective on what’s going on in her life and in her work.

好吧，就我个人而言，我试图做的是将诸如冥想和正念之类的练习融入我自己的生活中，使我能够更加了解自己对自己所做的事情，并试图为自己设定合理的期望。 但是有时候您会积累很多东西，以至于退休确实是一种合适的方法。 我为她选择退休和退役，并对自己的生活和工作中发生的事情提供一些见解而称赞。

Tim: 蒂姆：

I think I just thought of the title for this episode, which should be, Micro Retirement with Lara Schenck.

我想我只是想到了这一集的标题，应该是Lara Schenck的《微退休》。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

It’s a good one, right?

这是一个好人，对不对？

David: 大卫：

I think she’d like that.

我想她会喜欢的。

Tim: 蒂姆：

I think this concept of micro retirement is a very interesting idea and probably deserves its own Ted Talk if you think about. It’s a really interesting and helpful way to realign yourself with your relationship with work, especially in our culture.

我认为这种微退休的概念是一个非常有趣的想法，如果您考虑一下，也许值得拥有它自己的Ted Talk。 这是一种非常有趣且有用的方法，可以使您重新适应与工作的关系，尤其是在我们的文化中。

David: 大卫：

It’s very integrated, too, with the gig economy, which is, I think, what we’re all essentially moving toward right now — where you’re not working full-time for one employer, but essentially juggling a whole bunch of different employers and keeping yourself up to speed with the marketplace. The only way you can do that is if you build in the time to stay up to date with what the market actually needs, and that involves stepping away from actual work for a while and allowing yourself to absorb.

它也与零工经济紧密集成，我认为，这就是我们目前正朝着真正的方向发展-您不是在全职为一位雇主工作，而是在与许多不同的雇主打交道并紧跟市场步伐。 这样做的唯一方法是，如果您有时间根据市场实际需求进行更新，那就需要暂时离开实际工作并让自己专心致志。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yes. To absorb and observe. Those are two words that are difficult to say one after the other.

是。 吸收和观察。 这两个词很难一个接一个地讲。

---

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Well, thank you so much for listening, everybody. We always enjoy getting to talk technology with all of you.

好，非常感谢大家的倾听。 我们总是喜欢与大家交谈技术。

David

大卫

We would also like to thank SitePoint.com, and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat, with production help from Ralph Mason. Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @versioningshow — and give us a rating on iTunes to let us know how we’re doing.

我们还要感谢SitePoint.com以及我们的制作人Adam Roberts和Ophelie Lechat，以及Ralph Mason的制作帮助。 请随时在Twitter( @versioningshow)上向我们发送您的评论，并在iTunes上给我们评分 ，让我们知道我们的情况。

Tim: 蒂姆：

We’ll see you next time, and we hope you enjoyed this version.

下次见，我们希望您喜欢这个版本。

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/wordpress-development-freelancing-taking-time-off-lara-schenck/