想起日本的SUPER H了
SUPER H也是参考现有的东西
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/127791-china-plans-national-unified-cpu-architecture
China plans national, unified CPU architecture
By Sebastian Anthony on April 27, 2012 at 7:35
am40 Comments
According to reports from various industry
sources, the Chinese government has begun the
process of picking a national computer chip
instruction set architecture (ISA). This ISA would
have to be used for any projects backed with
government money — which, in a communist country
such as China, is a fairly long list of public and
private enterprises and institutions, including
China Mobile, the largest wireless carrier in the
world. The primary reason for this move is to
lessen China’s reliance on western intellectual
property.
There are at least five existing ISAs on the table
for consideration — MIPS, Alpha, ARM, Power, and
the homegrown UPU — but the Chinese leadership
has also mooted the idea of defining an entirely
new architecture. The first meeting to decide on a
nationwide ISA, attended by government officials
and representatives from academic groups and
companies such as Huawei and ZTE, was held in
March. According to MIPS vice president Robert
Bismuth, a final decision will be made in “a
matter of months.”
China has a long history with MIPS and Alpha.
Loongson processors, which power millions of
Chinese school computers, use MIPS — and the
ShenWei processors (pictured right) found in China
’s first homegrown supercomputer, the Sunway
Bluelight MPP, are based on the Alpha ISA. MIPS
Technologies (the company) hasn’t been doing very
well recently, and it’s rumored that the
Sunnyvale-based company could be up for sale — a
purchase I’m sure the Chinese government could
afford.
According to EE Times, there are some 34 ARM
licensees in China, but at $5 million for a single
Cortex-A9 core license, it’s unlikely that ARM
will be China’s choice. The Power ISA is cheaper,
but lacks the software ecosystems that ARM and
MIPS enjoy. ShenWei/Alpha is also a possibility,
but again it cannot compete with MIPS’ installed
base.
The other option, of course, is developing a brand
new ISA — a daunting task, considering you have
to create an entire software (compiler, developer,
apps) and hardware (CPU, chipset, motherboard)
ecosystem from scratch. But, there are benefits to
building your own CPU architecture. China, for
example, could design an ISA (or microarchicture)
with silicon-level monitoring and censorship —
and, of course, a ubiquitous, always-open backdoor
that can be used by Chinese intelligence agencies.
The Great Firewall of China is fairly easy to
circumvent — but what if China built a DNS and IP
address blacklist into the hardware itself?
Taking a leaf out of South Korea’s hardcore
gaming scene, what if the Chinese government
decided to implement a hardware-level 10pm curfew
for video games? Or some code that automatically
turns negative mentions of Hu Jintao (the Chinese
president) into positives, and inserts a few
honorifics at the same time. Or a latent botnet of
hundreds of millions of computers that can be
activated upon the commencement of World War III.
Or, or, or…
Angel Ham 5 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
Considering the hodgepodges they create with the
things they imitate I predict it's going to be a
SoC with two Intel cores, a nVidia GPU and will
also integrate four SPEs from the Cell processor.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 6 Likes F
Joel Hruska 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
Angel, that actually made me laugh.
I think you're forgetting Transmeta. It'll EMULATE
all those architectures using CodeMorphing
technology. :)
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Angel Ham 0
Like F
Sebastian Anthony, Senior Editor, ExtremeTech 2
comments collapsed Collapse Expand
Joel laughed! Screenshot!
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Joel Hruska 0
Like F
Angel Ham 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Pic link or it didn't happened.
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Sebastian
Anthony 0 Like F
yetanotherbob 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Does that mean that Linus will be working in
Beijing???
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Joel Hruska 0
Like F
m0r1arty, Never bet with your short bio content!
1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Propaganda jokes aside a shift onto their own
technology (Where they own the patents) would be a
massive boon for tech culture and could be adopted
by people all over the globe.
Current 'Western' policies would have to be
rethought to be competitive and we could move away
from the courtroom and back into the lab for
progression - that is unless governments try to
add 'tariffs and levies' onto the products sold by
their financial underwriters.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 5 Likes F
Anonymous Anonymous 4 comments collapsed Collapse
Expand
The China process
Step 1: Conduct government financed industrial
espionage against US chip makers to steal various
semiconductor architectures
Step 2: Decide on which architecture to copy.
Step 3: Copy it.
Step 4: Sell back to the West at 1/10th the price.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 9 Likes F
BigOkieTechie 2 comments collapsed Collapse
Expand
Well they have done it for decades with bikes,
clothes, toys, etc.
Why not chips?
Vive le Wal-Mart? lolz X-D
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Anonymous
Anonymous 1 Like F
some_guy_said 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
By the time the Chinese have the new chips on our
market, we'll be shopping at the Jintao Mart.
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to BigOkieTechie
3 Likes F
bootsattheboar 1 comment collapsed Collapse
Expand
You forgot Step 5: Profit!
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Anonymous
Anonymous 3 Likes F
Randall 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
I can't imagine anything better for Intel, AMD,
and ARM than competing against a ISA which was
designed by government bureaucrats :-0
A Like Reply 3 days ago 2 Likes F
Maventwo 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Especially when the top of the communist party in
China have all ingeneers who understand the
problem with that processor makers in China must
pay $5 millions for license ARMs processors.
Even if you make 1 million tablet pc with an ARM-
based processor you must pay to ARM.
If the licens amount was much less the chinese
risc-processor makers could make very cheap tablet
pc and Smartphones.
A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Randall 0 Like
F
yetanotherbob 2 comments collapsed Collapse
Expand
Alpha architecture is quite powerful, and due to
various monopolies isn't used much here. The basic
chip architecture goes back to the mid 1970's, and
was intended to allow for very powerful computers.
Though an even simpler architecture would also
allow for some great innovations.
Before you snicker, consider that the basic Intel
architecture goes like it was really an 8 bit
computer. From a design viewpoint, Intel has never
been a great performer because of those original
limitations.
Also, Linux already runs just fine on Mips, Alpha,
Arm and Power, so software is not a problem.
Granted, games might be a little difficult, but
with an internal market of 500 Million, it won't
take the games folks long to port over to whatever
platform is chosen.
As for what the Chinese Government does, I would
predict that the chip microcode will be publicly
revealed/recoded within a week of chip release.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 1 Like F
some_guy_said 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Alpha, ARM and Power are all somewhat similar,
being based on RISC architecture. MIPS is
related, and has the same kind of goals.
Essentially, all these architectures have the same
kind of advantages and disadvantages against x86
to varying degrees. (And many disadvantages can be
overcome with heterogeneous cores.)
"Though an even simpler architecture would also
allow for some great innovations."
umm, these are all reduced instruction
architectures. It is possible to build a new
architecture and possible to innovate something
better, but it is also possible to build a better
mousetrap. You're suggesting a lot of R&D for
something that may not pay off at all, and would
likely be incompatible with everything.
You do not need to change the architecture type to
optimize it for 32 bit or 64 bit. You show little
faith that intel, or ARM or IBM (and company)
spent the time to update their architectures - and
provide absolutely no evidence other than your own
assumption.
"Granted, games might be a little difficult,"
I doubt that there are a lot of x86 games in
chinese to begin with...Given that they rely
heavily on other architectures already, censorship
and the fact that the government seems to be
slanted against gaming...
"I would predict that the chip microcode will be
publicly revealed/recoded within a week of chip
release."
Gosh, your comments sound intelligent on the
surface, but really....RTA - The chinese
government is looking for an existing
architecture...the microcode is already
available...
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to yetanotherbob
0 Like F
Lupius 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
Seb, some of the ulterior motives that you
mentioned are just way too impractical. Hardware
coded censorship? Totally useless unless they
update the latest sensitive topics weekly, and if
there's a mechanism for that then the Chinese
hackers will find a way to replace it with a blank
list and entirely defeat the purpose.
Same deal with the backdoors and the curfews. If
you underestimate your civilian hackers, you'll
find them biting you in the ass.
Now a botnet for world war III, wouldn't that be
something...
A Like Reply 3 days ago 1 Like F
Sebastian Anthony, Senior Editor, ExtremeTech 1
comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Yeah, I admit some of those ideas are a little too
wacky -- but hey, they're just ideas :)
Thanks for taking the time to comment!
A Like Reply 3 days ago in reply to Lupius 0 Like
F
yetanotherbob 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
The Bureaucrats won't be designing the chip, they
will be selecting the instruction set that they
feel makes them owe the least to any non-Chinese
entity. There will probably be several chips that
then use the same instruction set.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F
adlucier 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
If they come up with a competitive product, and
use an existing ISA with a decent code base there
could be a serious issue here... Because the
Chinese government will subsidize the chip
development and manufacturing and sell it for
nothing basically.... which is what china does
with everything.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F
some_guy_said 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Let's face it: The biggest business in the world
is China. and no amount of antitrust lawyers can
stop them.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F
Peter Donovan 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
ISA/Architecture level magic can be reverse
engineered by replaying triggering sequences.
So yeah, the Chinese can add hidden magic, but it
wouldn't be on a published architectural level
and it wouldn't necessarily be dependent on any
particular architecture.
More simply, your speculations on monitoring and
censorship are unrelated to the adoption of any
particular architecture.
NSA and friends are already very concerned about
detecting and analyzing hardware trojans inserted
during fabrication, which is a very real threat.
A Like Reply 3 days ago 0 Like F
Gabe 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
You hear that American Government Officials!! They
are trying to reduce their dependence on "western
intellectual property." Why don't we do the same
damn thing to them. I am sick of everything made
in China. Screw them
A Like Reply 3 days ago 1 Like F
John Smith 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Too late. If I remember correctly one reporter
from Financial Times wanted to calculate how much
Apple is saving by placing production of
iPad/iPhone in China instead of States. Result of
his investigation - it is impossible to compare
since electronic manufacturing is now only
possible in Asia, supply chain in USA is
completely broken and would be very hard to
restore if possible at all.
A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Gabe 1 Like F
Jan-Willem Wisgerhof 1 comment collapsed Collapse
Expand
Very interested to see what they cook up. They do
have the technology and knowledge to maybe produce
a "copy" of a current architecture.
A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F
gradkiss 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Hopefully people will be doing more than
assembling computers using various parts from
different distant countries in the uSA ..one day
in the future? I used to just use whatever from
the radio shack,etc and not one politician where I
lived had one thing to say to all of us doing the
same exact things, talking on CB's and kicking
around town...we had an FCC license and took a
short simple exam...and even got call numbers like
6w885 as a good example...watched Cable tv from
antennae up on Happy-top. (mountain) went out
camping, fishing, the regular stuff you could just
walk short distance and get to...like the back
yard facilitated something other than a secluded
place to smoke dope those days.The stock market
never did anything for us, and we were not likely
then ... to be involved.
I usually do not get too excited over computers,
processors or even China...I have always
determined that I should not be, due to one
fact...I live somewhere else and surely do not
need the added responsibility to run around the
globe with paper in a brief case to prove I am a
manager of my own home.
I honestly like living where we do not need a
lawyer but for the regular stuff like
marriages...or to provide a witness someone shook
each other's hands in an agreement that had a
period of time to actually reach the conclusion of
the agreement.
That day is gone in the uS. Really...bring it back
then.
Invent another sparc...but please call it
something else...Oracle is not a good choice
either.
Everyone have a good day.
A Like Reply 2 days ago 1 Like F
quadibloc 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Hey, they could implement the architecture I
describe on my web site...
A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F
Taras Buljba 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Entirely inappropriate ! USA is no.1 world evil
empire. USA constantli seeks wars and peoples to
kill and plunder, not China!
A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F
raycote 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
Delusional control freaks !
They really don't get do they !
A Like Reply 2 days ago 1 Like F
Maventwo 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
China wants of course to own hole chain of
semiconductor industry parts, not only make IC
which have been developed abroad and partly inside
China and manufctored in China.
China have the amibiton to develop holw chain av
different parts of the semiconducting industry
and in this progress they want not to be forced to
pay license costs to companies abroad like ARM,
Imagination Technolgies,MIPS,Texas Instruments or
a holw bunch of western companies in developing of
semicounductors.
China ambition will be dangerous for western
countries, not now but within 10 years!
A Like Reply 2 days ago 0 Like F
Charbax, Video-blogger 7 comments collapsed
Collapse Expand
It makes no sense to compete with ARM, ARM
dominates the world. Over 6 billion ARM processors
are shipped every year. China can afford ARM
licencing and China can sit with ARM and negotiate
some longer term licencing deals that can also
include collaborating with Chinese engineers on
the future direction and development of the ARM
technologies.
A Like Reply 2 days ago 1 Like F
Maventwo 6 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
But as you know, the IC development years ahead
will be in 3D IC with TSV=Through-Silicon-Vias
will make the processors and solid memories much
faster than today´s processors and solid memories
because of much shorter signal ways.
Moore´s law will continue but not only becuase of
smaller geometries but mostly because 3D IC with
TSV as connection instead of thread bonding
between 3D IC.
More about TSV from Appliedmaterials web site.
http://www.appliedmaterials.co...
As you maybe know is MIPS for sale and the chinese
cpu:s Godson and Loongson are based on MIPS risc-
processors.
So, chinese own risc-processor industry can be in
the long run
a competitor to ARM especially for asian processor
makers.
A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Charbax 0 Like
F
Charbax, Video-blogger 5 comments collapsed
Collapse Expand
Godson and Loongson went nowhere, was a waste of
time. If China wants to continue in that
direction, it'll be their problem. It's better to
work with the British than to work with the
Americans, China should know by now.
A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Maventwo 0 Like
F
Maventwo 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
But if a chinese processor maker buys MIPS, this
will change to advantage for Chinese government
intensions to be a power even in the semiconductor
business.
A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Charbax 0 Like
F
Charbax, Video-blogger 3 comments collapsed
Collapse Expand
even if they buy mips, its still american, the
ecosystem that they'd buy is dominated by american
interests, it's a ridiculous idea. Its like buying
into a 10 year deficit in technological advances
and a huge leap backwards for the chinese IT
development. But again, they still have that
moronic chinese firewall slowing down their
internet development, so why knows, maybe the same
morons are in charge of strategising about this
national processor strategy.
A Like Reply 1 day ago in reply to Maventwo 0 Like
F
Maventwo 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
But real innovating comes from below, for making
things cheaper
and more rational to make.So, chinese based risc-
processors
will change hole market if China decide to do this
in risc-architucture.
China will have big impact not only in making
electronic thing like Smartphones or cheap
computers, they will also make struggle in the
semiconductor industry to be a big player in
constructing
of semiconductor devices in all fields.
A Like Reply 11 hours ago in reply to Charbax 0
Like F
Charbax, Video-blogger 1 comment collapsed
Collapse Expand
It makes absolutely no sense to compete with ARM.
On an iPhone sold for $650 on the market, ARM gets
maybe $1 in licencing per phone. On a $199 Chinese
phone, that licencing is probably below $0.5 per
phone. China has nothing to save in doing another
architecture, except total incompatibility with
the rest of the world, total lack of participation
in the rest of the worlds processor innovations,
if China wants to be left behind and if they want
to shoot themselves in the foot, then yes they
should not use ARM and they should play around
with some alternative thing.
A Like Reply 11 hours ago in reply to Maventwo 0
Like F
fteoOpty64 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
They cannot stick with just one ISA because it is
not optimized for all tasks. MIPS for low power,
and Alpha for HPC would be the way to go. But the
software infrastructure has to follow in order for
any platform to grow. This means somehow getting
Alpha type co-processor boards into PC based
development systems. This would be a costly effort
as 86-X64 continues to storm ahead in the desktop
and laptop space in the millions every year. The
whole venture cannot succeed because it would be
alienating the rest-of-the-world which becomes a
huge dilemma for both sides.
Just look at the Rest-of-the-world. ARM for
mobile, X86 for desktop and X86 for HPC.
Effectively only two ISA for everything possible
and plenty of software around with millions of
developers in the commercial space. Does the
Chinese not realise that license for hardware IP
is just a fraction of the cost of any device ?.
Are they looking at the wrong thing here ?.
A Like Reply 1 day ago 0 Like F
Alessandro Malanca 1 comment collapsed Collapse
Expand
May be they will have bits holding seven values
(0..6 or A..G or Do,Re,Mi ..Si).
Obviously it cannot go faster than light.
Hope it will be able to to do massage
https://sites.google.com/site/...
A Like Reply 15 hours ago 0 Like F
Bennie Kloosteman 1 comment collapsed Collapse
Expand
It will be home grown or at best licenced ARM with
FULL development rights and made in China.. They
will throw big $$ so some company will sell it to
them for the CEO bonus next year... Only to make a
competitor in 5-10 years.
My hunch is Arm they are in the licencing business
anyway.
A Like Reply 14 hours ago 0 Like F
fortycal_sig 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
So the Chinese government is going into business
architecting hardware now? Ridiculous.
A Like Reply 14 hours ago 0 Like F
Howard Harkness 1 comment collapsed Collapse
Expand
I am definitely *for* this initiative by the PRC.
Having a unified, government-dictated CPU
architecture will significantly reduce their
ability to compete with freer countries.
A Like Reply 13 hours ago 0 Like F
0 new comment was just posted. Show