SitePoint Podcast＃129：与Lorna Mitchell一起将PHP提升到一个新的水平

Episode 129 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week our regular interview host Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict) interviews Lorna Mitchell (@Lornajane) one of a team of 3 co-authors working on an upcoming release for SitePoint, an advanced book on PHP.

SitePoint Podcast的第129集现已发布！ 本周，我们的定期采访主持人Louis Simoneau( @rssaddict )采访了Lorna Mitchell( @Lornajane )，这是一个由三人共同撰写的团队之一，正在为即将发行PHP高级书籍SitePoint进行工作。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #129: Taking PHP to the Next Level with Lorna Mitchell (MP3, 32:00, 30.7MB)

  SitePoint Podcast＃129：与Lorna Mitchell一起将PHP提升到一个新的 高度(MP3，32:00，30.7MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Louis and Lorna talk about this new book and what’s inside it, structuring projects with PHP and and how PHP has really grown as a language over the years.

Louis和Lorna谈论这本新书及其内容，用PHP构造项目，以及这些年来PHP如何真正成为一种语言。

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/129.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/129中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Louis: Hello and welcome to yet another episode of the SitePoint podcast. With me today on the show we have the author of an upcoming title from SitePoint which is a more advanced PHP book, Lorna Mitchell, hi Lorna.

路易斯：您好，欢迎收看SitePoint播客的又一集。 今天和我一起在展览上，我们有SitePoint即将出版的书名的作者，这是一本更高级PHP书，Lorna Mitchell，嗨Lorna。

Lorna: Good morning.

洛娜：早上好。

Louis: Good afternoon depending on which side of the world you’re on. How are you doing?

路易斯：下午好，取决于您所处的世界。 你好吗？

Lorna: Yeah, I’m good. It’s breakfast time here and I’m having a week full of exciting things, so it’s great to talk to you.

洛娜：是的，我很好。 现在是早餐时间，我整整一周都有令人兴奋的事情，因此很高兴与您交谈。

Louis: That’s great. I’m a little bit ill, so regular listeners will notice a slight change in my voice but I’m trying to hold it together. So you were involved in a SitePoint project which will be released in the coming months, it’s a PHP book but a bit different from PHP books we’ve done in the past, so regular SitePoint readers will be familiar with Kevin’s book on PHP which is Build Your Own Database Driven Website with PHP and MySQL which is sort of a very beginner book; if all you’ve ever done is front end stuff, HTML and CSS, how to just dive in and start writing some dynamic server side code that interacts with the database. But this book takes that to another level; do you want to talk a little bit about it?

路易斯：太好了。 我病得有点厉害，所以普通听众会注意到我的声音略有变化，但我试图将其保持在一起。 因此，您参与了一个SitePoint项目，该项目将在接下来的几个月中发布，这是一本PHP书籍，但与我们过去编写PHP书籍有所不同，因此常规的SitePoint读者会熟悉KevinPHP书籍，用PHP和MySQL建立自己的数据库驱动网站，这是一本非常入门的书； 如果您所要做的只是前端工作，HTML和CSS，如何深入研究并开始编写一些与数据库交互的动态服务器端代码。 但是这本书把它带到了另一个层次。 您想谈谈吗？

Lorna: Oh, yeah, I’d really like to. So Kevin’s book is nice, I’ve got it and I really enjoyed that, but I meet a lot of developers in my work as a consultant and as a trainer where they’ve reached that level, they are writing websites in PHP and they’re sort of what’s next, like how do we progress from here. So we put together this book which covers actually a raft of different chapters, but it gives you kind of the next level of the knowledge, so it’s got an OOP chapter in there, we cover how to use databases, how to improve the performance, we’ve got a whole chapter on different kinds of testing, how to work with API’s and it’s a real nice kind of what do you want to learn next, you can pick a chapter from the book, we cover design peterns, and I just think it’s great either whether you read it cover-to-cover or whether you dip into it, for PHP developers who are like, well, I can make a website but how do I make a better website (laughter).

洛娜：哦，是的，我真的很想。 所以Kevin的书很好，我很喜欢，但是我很喜欢，但是在我担任顾问和培训师的过程中，我遇到了很多开发人员，他们达到了这一水平，他们正在用PHP编写网站，接下来的事情，例如我们从这里如何前进。 因此，我们将这本书放在一起，实际上涵盖了许多不同的章节，但是它为您提供了更高层次的知识，因此在其中有一个OOP章节，我们涵盖了如何使用数据库，如何提高性能，我们有一整章的内容涉及不同种类的测试，如何使用API​​，这是您接下来想学的真正好方法，您可以从本书中选择一章，涵盖设计方面的知识，而我只是对于您来说，无论是从封面到封面还是深入学习，这对于我来说都是不错的选择，对于像这样PHP开发人员，我可以创建一个网站，但是我如何创建一个更好的网站(笑声)。

Louis: Or a website that anyone else will be able to read the code and work on in the future.

路易斯：或者其他任何人将来都可以阅读该代码并继续工作的网站。

Lorna: Yeah, and having those kind of best practice attitudes, yeah, it’s just packed with good stuff, I’m really excited about it, it was such a good project to work on.

Lorna：是的，并且拥有那种最佳实践态度，是的，它充满了很多东西，我对此感到非常兴奋，这是一个非常好的项目。

Louis: It’s interesting because PHP is sort of in that space where it’s sort of the first thing that anyone who is self-taught will learn after teaching themselves HTML and CSS, there’s a lot of sort of awkward practices out there, and PHP has matured as a language over time so there’s a ton of material online but not necessarily all of it showing sort of either modern object oriented programming or automated testing or any of this other stuff. I know for my case I was writing terrible PHP until I learned Ruby on Rails and then I was like oh, wait. So now when I write PHP I have something to base myself on, but for a lot of people out there who have just learned PHP it can be challenging because the material is not always really obvious out there.

路易斯：有趣的是，PHP处于这样的空间中，这是任何自学成才的人在学习HTML和CSS之后都会学到的第一件事，那里有很多尴尬的做法，并且PHP已经成熟作为一种语言，随着时间的流逝，在线上有大量资料，但不一定全部都显示了现代的面向对象程序设计或自动化测试或任何其他内容。 对于我的情况，我知道在学习Ruby on Rails之前，我一直在编写糟糕PHP，然后我就像哦，等等。 因此，现在当我编写PHP时，我有了一些基础，但是对于许多刚学习PHP的人来说，这可能是具有挑战性的，因为那里的资料并不总是很明显。

Lorna: No, it’s really not. It’s a very — I call it a relaxed language, like it’s very tolerant.

洛娜：不，不是。 这是非常的-我称它为轻松的语言，就像它非常宽容。

Louis: (Laughs) Yeah.

路易斯：(笑)是的。

Lorna: It’s tolerant of everything you want to throw at it, and that means you can persist in your bad habits or you can grow some good ones, but that takes a bit of effort. But it’s up to you, and if you were to hack something together with PHP and you can solve your problem with it then fantastic, go ahead.

Lorna：它可以容忍要扔给它的所有东西，这意味着您可以坚持自己的坏习惯，也可以养成一些好的习惯，但这需要一些努力。 但这取决于您，如果您要与PHP一起破解某些东西，并且可以解决问题，那就太好了，继续。

Louis: Yeah, absolutely. So, we talked a bit about the book, we’ll come back to that a bit later, but I’m also interested in hearing what you’ve got on outside of the SitePoint world at the moment.

路易斯：是的，绝对。 因此，我们对这本书进行了一些讨论，我们稍后再讨论，但是我也很想听听您目前在SitePoint之外的情况。

Lorna: Wow. Well, it’s quite a long list (laughter). Because I’m a consultant I work with lots of different people, and this month is bringing a couple of really interesting development projects as well as some training assignments, so I’m getting to teach PHP as well as do it which is a nice combination. Just a couple of weeks ago I relaunched my personal website which like shouldn’t have been such a big deal, but I’ve been blogging for so long that I ended up with nearly 700 posts to migrate, so I learned a lot about WordPress.

洛娜：哇。 好吧，这是一个很长的清单(笑声)。 因为我是一名顾问，所以我与许多不同的人一起工作，并且本月带来了几个非常有趣的开发项目以及一些培训任务，所以我不仅要教PHP，而且要做到这一点。组合。 就在几周前，我重新启动了我的个人网站，这似乎不应该是什么大不了的事，但是我写博客已经很久了，最终我获得了将近700篇文章进行迁移，所以我学到了很多有关WordPress的知识。

Louis: (Laughs) So were you not on WordPress originally and you migrated to WordPress?

路易斯：(笑)那么您最初不是在WordPress上，而是迁移到WordPress了吗？

Lorna: Yeah. So I’ve been using Serendipity for quite a long time, and I’m a PHP developer but it has to be said that my front end skills are, eh, let’s say lacking; in an effort to be diplomatic it’s just not what I’m good at. So I actually paid someone to create a new design for my site, and they were more comfortable skinning WordPress so I just moved it over. A lot of the other sites that I work with are WordPress so I was really comfortable to go to that.

罗娜：是的。 因此，我使用Serendipity已有很长时间了，并且我是一名PHP开发人员，但必须指出，我的前端技能有些缺乏，比如说。 为了外交，这不是我擅长的。 所以我实际上付了钱给我的网站创建一个新的设计，而他们对WordPress的外观更加满意，所以我就把它移了过来。 我与之合作的许多其他站点都是WordPress，所以我很乐意这么做。

Louis: Yeah, I think it’s pretty rapidly becoming a safe default for that kind of work.

路易斯：是的，我认为它正在Swift成为此类工作的安全默认值。

Lorna: Yeah, so it’s about three years since I previously migrated, and at that time it wasn’t such a clear-cut choice. I really enjoyed Serendipity as a platform, but it just isn’t evolving as quickly because it doesn’t have such a big design and development team behind it. So, yeah, I did that and I’m currently working on — I’m organizing a conference which is local to here which is organized by the community, so that’s my local user group PHP Northwest in Manchester in the north of England, we’re working pretty hard on that conference, it’s exactly a month away.

洛娜：是的，距离我之前的移民已经三年左右了，当时并不是一个明确的选择。 我真的很喜欢Serendipity作为平台，但是它并没有那么快地发展，因为它没有强大的设计和开发团队。 所以，是的，我做到了，我目前正在研究-我正在组织一个由社区组织的本地会议，因此这是我在英格兰北部曼彻斯特的本地用户组PHP Northwest，我们在那个会议上做得很辛苦，距离现在只有一个月了。

Louis: Alright, so caught you in the thick of it.

路易斯：好，让您深深陷入其中。

Lorna: Well, yeah, very much. This is our fourth year running the conference, we just have so much exciting stuff going on this year, I’m running in loads of different directions; I basically can’t wait for the event to start because I’m so excited.

洛娜：是的，非常。 这是我们召开会议的第四年，今年我们有很多激动人心的事情，我奔向不同的方向。 基本上，我等不及活动开始，因为我非常兴奋。

Louis: Cool. So if anyone’s in England are there still spots available for that?

路易斯：酷。 所以，如果有人在英格兰，还有景点吗？

Lorna: Oh, yeah, absolutely. You’ve missed our early bird prices but it’s still cheaper than any of the other conferences that I know of in Europe, so conference.phpnw.org.uk.

洛娜：哦，是的，绝对。 您已经错过了我们的早鸟价，但它仍然比我在欧洲所知道的任何其他会议都要便宜，所以Conference.phpnw.org.uk 。

Louis: Cool, absolutely. Anyone interested in brushing up on PHP should definitely check that out.

路易斯：太酷了。 任何有兴趣重新学习PHP的人都应该检查一下。

Lorna: Yeah, we’d love to see you there, it’s a good crowd.

洛娜：是的，我们很乐意在那儿见到你，这是一个很好的人群。

Louis: Awesome. So, I noticed on your website you’ve also been involved in an open source website project.

路易斯：太好了。 因此，我在您的网站上注意到您还参与了一个开源网站项目。

Lorna: Oh, right, okay, yeah. So I am the — it’s my project, I lead the Joind.in Project. So, Joind.in, because it’s cool in Web 2, it’s Joind without the e, Joind.in is an event feedback site, and it’s something that as a conference speaker and now as an organizer as well I absolutely love it because what it is, is a site which allows you to give feedback on the talks that you have seen at events, and people just give feedback as they go along through the day, you know you can rate it out of 5 and then there’s a box to put your comments in. So speakers and everybody else at the conference and the organizers have a really good record of what do people think of this talk, how was it, you know, people don’t come up to you and say how did your talk go, they look it up.

洛娜：哦，对，好的，是的。 所以我是-这是我的项目，我领导了Joined.in项目。 所以， Joined.in ，因为在Web 2中很酷，它是在没有e的情况下加入的，Joined.in是一个事件反馈站点，作为会议发言人和组织者，我绝对喜欢它，因为它是一个网站，您可以通过它在活动中看到的演讲提供反馈，而人们只是在一天中进行反馈时就知道了，您知道您可以对它进行评分，满分为5分，然后有一个方框您的评论输入。因此，演讲者，会议中的其他所有人以及组织者都有一个很好的记录，记录了人们对本次演讲的看法，感受如何，您知道，人们没有主动提出来并说出您的演讲是如何进行的去，他们抬头看。

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Lorna: And just in terms of having a really open feedback loop about the individual event and also each talk is fabulous. And for speakers who, you know, are speaking in perhaps the local area really regularly, if those events have been using Joind.in and they submit to one of my conferences I haven’t seen them speak, I don’t know them from Adam, but I can have a look on Joind.in, see what other people thought, see what topics they’re speaking about, what they have experience in, and it’s almost part of your speaking resume. And I just love it, we have the schedules on the site so when you’re at an event we have apps for iPhone and Android, you can see what’s on next, how a feedback’s going, comment off your phone as well as using the website, so it’s a lot of fun.

Lorna：关于每个事件，都有一个真正开放的反馈回路，而且每次谈话都很棒。 对于那些确实定期在本地发言的演讲者，如果这些活动一直在使用Joind.in，并且他们参加了我的一次会议，但我从未见过他们讲话，我也不知道他们是谁。亚当，但我可以看一下Joined.in，看看其他人的想法，看看他们在谈论什么主题，他们有什么经验，这几乎是您演讲的一部分。 我很喜欢，我们在网站上有时间表，因此当您参加活动时，我们拥有适用于iPhone和Android的应用程序，您可以查看接下来的内容，反馈的进行情况，在手机上发表评论以及使用网站，这很有趣。

Louis: Very cool. And that’s all open source.

路易斯：太酷了。 这就是全部开源。

Lorna: It’s all open source, we’re on GitHub, and we love new contributors. Sometimes open source projects can be quite difficult to get into, but we love new contributors, if you’re new to Git or new to CodeIgniter or whatever it is that you’re there to learn about or that you want to get into, drop into our IRC channel and freeload and we’ll always help you out.

Lorna：都是开源的，我们在GitHub上，我们喜欢新的贡献者。 有时候，开源项目可能很难进入，但是如果您是Git的新手或CodeIgniter的新手，或者您在那里学习或想要参与的项目，我们都喜欢新的贡献者。进入我们的IRC频道并免费下载，我们将始终为您提供帮助。

Louis: Right. So it’s done in CodeIgniter you said.

路易斯：对。 因此，这是在您说的CodeIgniter中完成的。

Lorna: It is, it’s built on CodeIgniter, and it’s a project that’s been around a while, so we’re not on CodeIgniter2 yet, although there’s a movement to basically drag me through the process because I don’t know much about CodeIgniter, I’ve inherited this project. But it’s a really nice kind of standard MVC setup, we have like our build server is public so you can see how all the tests have run and when we’ve released and what builds have happened and stuff like that, it’s really, really open; if you’re not familiar with kind of a running development process you can see everything, and it’s every kind of open, I like that.

Lorna：是的，它是基于CodeIgniter构建的，并且这个项目已经存在了一段时间，所以我们还没有使用CodeIgniter2，尽管有一个运动可以使我基本通过该过程，因为我对CodeIgniter并不了解，我已经继承了这个项目。 但这是一种非常不错的标准MVC设置，我们就像我们的构建服务器是公共的，因此您可以看到所有测试的运行方式以及发布的时间，构建发生了什么以及类似的事情，它真的非常开放; 如果您不熟悉正在运行的开发流程，则可以看到所有内容，而且每种方法都是开放的，我很喜欢。

Louis: That’s really interesting and it’s something which is, how can I say this, there’s a lot of open source projects out there, but a lot of them in terms of the Web are either toolkits for developing websites, like a lot of the frameworks are open source obviously, and various things like this, but in terms of an actual full operational web application that is fully open source, and where the entire development process is transparent, I can’t think of too many others out there.

路易斯：真的很有趣，这就是我要怎么说的话，那里有很多开源项目，但是就网络而言，其中很多都是开发网站的工具包，就像许多框架一样显然是开源的，诸如此类的各种事情，但是就完全开源的实际完全可操作的Web应用程序而言，并且整个开发过程是透明的，我想不出太多其他的东西。

Lorna: It’s pretty unusual to have an open source project around like a particular hosted domain, I think most of them, yeah, the idea is you download them when your own. Joind.in grew out of the community, it was built by someone in the community originally, is used by all the PHP community events and now a much wider list of events and it’s completely free to use. So people come to me and say “Oh, I wish it did this or do that or do you know this is broken,” and I just say, well, we’re on GitHub. And more than half the time I’ve got to pool requests for exactly that feature.

Lorna：像一个特定的托管域一样，有一个开源项目是很不寻常的，我想其中的大多数，是的，想法是您自己下载它们。 Joind.in最初是由社区中的某个人创建的，它是由社区中的某个人创建的，并被所有PHP社区事件使用，现在事件列表更加广泛，并且完全免费使用。 所以人们来找我说：“哦，我希望它做到了这一点，或者做到了，或者你知道这是坏的。”而我只是说，好，我们在GitHub上。 而且，我有一半以上的时间可以为该功能汇总请求。

Louis: That’s fantastic. It’s great to see this kind of thing, I’d love to see more of that kind of thing out there, people doing their web apps; if you’re doing a web app that is free and that is out there, doing it in this way where people can contribute and really help out to get the features that they want is a lot of fun, because especially if it’s something that you’re doing for free you don’t always have the time to put into it yourself or if you’re a small team of people, so being able to recruit a wider community can be a massive boost I imagine.

路易斯：太好了。 看到这种事情真是太好了，我很乐意看到更多这样的事情，人们正在做他们的Web应用程序。 如果您使用的是免费的网络应用程序，那么以这种方式进行操作，使人们可以做出贡献并真正帮助他们获得所需的功能会很有趣，因为特别是如果您需要“免费做事，您不一定总是有时间投入其中，或者如果您是一小群人，那么我想能够招募更广泛的社区将是巨大的推动力。

Lorna: Yeah, well and different people who run different kinds of events and come from different backgrounds are, you know, each have their own take so they all bring something new and the project is three years old-ish, and yeah, it’s used by all kinds of people and it’s just growing all the time.

Lorna：是的，不同的人，他们运行不同类型的事件，并且来自不同的背景，每个人都有自己的看法，所以他们都带来了新的东西，并且这个项目已经有三年历史了，是的，各种各样的人，而且它一直在增长。

Louis: That’s awesome. Yeah, so that’s one of the things that I thought was interesting and that I wanted to talk to you about is the idea that for a lot of people learning PHP as you come to it you’ll learn how to build your own little project which a lot of times is just this massive of thousands of lines of procedural code, but then even when it’s not, even once you’ve learned object oriented programming and design patterns, that’s still really only half the way to where you need to be if you want to be a professional programmer, right, there’s all this other stuff about methodology and that’s to do with testing and version control and all of those different aspects which beginners can be challenged by.

路易斯：太棒了。 是的，这是我认为很有趣的一件事，我想与您谈谈的想法是，对于许多学习PHP的人来说，您将学习如何构建自己的小项目，很多时候只是成千上万的过程代码行，但是即使不是这样，即使一旦您学会了面向对象的编程和设计模式，实际上这仍然只是到达所需位置的一半您想成为一名专业的程序员，对，方法论还有很多其他东西，这与测试和版本控制以及初学者可能面临的所有这些不同方面有关。

Lorna: I think so. I think it’s genuinely really difficult to learn some of these things unless you’re working in team that does them. So if you’re really lucky and you get recruited somewhere that’s using all these processes then you see them, you know how they fit into the big picture, and if you’re interested you know you can get into working with some of those. For a ‘normal’ person, if you can imagine my air quotes which don’t come well (laughter), for a normal person you know quite often we’re working in teams where we’re just doing the best that we can, and this idea that you would have 80% test coverage, automated deployment and whatever else just seems completely unattainable. But that’s not true at all, I think that open source projects are a really good way to gain experience with, for example, Git; most companies are still using Subversion, but if you’re interested in Git, you know, I know I do a lot of tech support for Git users, people coming who can program PHP but are coming to Git for the first time. When I’m working with Joind.in people get really interested in how they can run the build process and sometimes change it. I had contributions recently to improve our coding standard and to make it a bit more useful for the project, and that’s the kind of thing that you know can be difficult to justify at work, people don’t want to give you the time to do it. But, open source gives you the chance to learn those skills and follow whatever you’re interested in and if you gain some wonderful experience and use it either in this job that you have now or your next one.

洛娜：我是这样认为的。 我认为，除非您正在团队中学习这些知识，否则确实很难学习其中的一些知识。 因此，如果您真的很幸运，并且在使用所有这些流程的地方被录用，那么您会看到它们，您知道它们如何适应全局，并且如果您有兴趣，则知道可以开始其中的一些工作。 对于一个“正常”的人，如果您能想象我的空中报价不理想(笑声)，对于一个正常的人，您经常会知道我们在团队中尽力而为，这样的想法是，您将拥有80％的测试覆盖率，自动部署以及其他似乎根本无法实现的目标。 但这完全不是事实，我认为开源项目是获得Git经验的一种非常好的方法。 大多数公司仍在使用Subversion，但是，如果您对Git感兴趣，我知道我为Git用户提供了很多技术支持，这些人可以编程PHP，但他们是第一次来Git。 当我与Joind.in合作时，人们对如何运行构建过程以及有时对其进行更改非常感兴趣。 我最近做出了一些贡献，以改善我们的编码标准并使之对项目更有用，这是您知道很难在工作中证明的事情，人们不想给您时间来做它。 但是，开源使您有机会学习这些技能，并随心所欲地学习，如果您获得了一些奇妙的经验并将其用于您现在或下一份工作中。

Louis: Yeah, I think that’s really important. For a lot of people who are self-taught, and I think that’s more the case with PHP probably than with any other programming language, is this issue that when you can teach yourself the language and you can know the language but for when you go for a job interview that’s like ten percent of what you’re going to be asked, right, there’s all this other stuff about process and working with a team and showing off open source experience is a big part of that. I interviewed Tom Preston-Werner from GitHub on the podcast a few months ago and talked about how he saw their role as providing this way for programmers to advertise their skills to the world so to speak.

路易斯：是的，我认为这很重要。 对于很多自学成才的人来说，我认为PHP可能比其他任何编程语言都多，这是一个问题，当您可以自学语言并且可以知道该语言时，对一个工作面试来说，这只是您要问的问题的百分之十，对，还有其他所有关于流程和与团队合作的事情，而炫耀开源经验是其中很大的一部分。 几个月前，我在播客上采访了来自GitHub的Tom Preston-Werner，并谈到了他如何看待他们为程序员提供这种向全世界宣传其技能的方式的作用。

Lorna: Yeah, I think that’s absolutely true. I mean I am not a PHP developer by training, I have a degree in electronic engineering, I had been other clients a developer before, and then I got a job. I’ve been doing PHP as a hobby because, like you say, it’s the most accessible way to interact, to be on the Web, and I came into PHP and I had a job in a large company, and I learned important skills like source control.

洛娜：是的，我认为那是绝对正确的。 我的意思是说，我不是经过培训PHP开发人员，我拥有电子工程学位，之前我曾是其他客户的开发人员，然后找到了工作。 我一直将PHP当作一种业余爱好，因为就像您所说的那样，它是最易于访问的交互方式，可以在Web上进行。我进入PHP并在一家大公司工作过，并且学习了一些重要的技能，例如源代码管理。

Louis: Using Mercurial and CVS at the time of course.

路易斯：当然要使用Mercurial和CVS。

Lorna: And then I went to a small company as their senior developer, and the thing about being a senior developer in a small company is you also fix the printer and do the sys. admin (laughter), unplugging the phones; and just because I had done kind of open source stuff and I had my own blog up and things that’s the only way that I kept that job long enough to figure out how to do it.

Lorna：然后我去了一家小公司，担任他们的高级开发人员，要成为一家小公司的高级开发人员，您还需要修理打印机并执行系统操作。 管理员(笑声)，拔掉电话； 只是因为我已经做了某种开源的工作，并且我建立了自己的博客，而这正是我将这项工作保持足够长的时间来弄清楚如何做的唯一方法。

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Lorna: And just you know when you work with PHP if you’re doing it in a day job often all of the infrastructure is in place for you, you don’t need to configure your own stack. When you work with open source you have to configure your own stack, and it might feel like a bit of a hassle but actually you’re learning so much when you do that.

Lorna：而且，您知道当您使用PHP进行日常工作时，通常所有基础结构都已准备就绪，您不需要配置自己的堆栈。 当您使用开放源代码时，您必须配置自己的堆栈，这似乎有点麻烦，但是实际上，这样做时您学到了很多东西。

Louis: Yep. Although I have to say sometimes the hassle becomes overwhelming when you’re working on your own stuff, but working on open source projects can be a really fantastic way of learning the stuff. I wanted to talk a little bit about frameworks, you mentioned that this project is built in CodeIgniter and that’s something you’re not terribly familiar with, do you have a PHP framework that you like to work with or are you one of those people who does it yourself every time or what’s the –?

路易斯：是的 。 尽管我不得不说有时候在您自己处理东西时，麻烦变得不堪重负，但是在开源项目中工作可能是学习这些东西的一种绝妙的方式。 我想谈一谈框架，您提到该项目是在CodeIgniter中构建的，您对此并不是很熟悉，您是否有想要使用PHP框架，或者您是其中的一员？自己每次还是–是？

Lorna: Oh, that’s a really good question. I’m a consultant so my favorite PHP framework is whatever my client is using.

洛娜：哦，这是一个很好的问题。 我是一名顾问，因此我最喜欢PHP框架是我的客户端正在使用的任何框架。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Lorna: And what’s nice about that is I’m kind of seeing those things now and it’s getting easier to find my way around in unfamiliar frameworks; that ‘lost in a new framework’ sensation is horrible, it’s like falling almost. And I don’t mind working with lots of new tools, I mean sure it means I’m constantly looking things up and asking people; most of the frameworks have a great set of documentation, the IRC channel will answer your questions, they’ll make fun of you first, but that’s okay (laughter), and so on, so I don’t really mind. A lot of what I work on are very small and performant apps, so I’m specialist in API’s which tend to be very small, not very many classes but under a lot of load.

Lorna：这样做的好处是，我现在已经看到了这些东西，并且在不熟悉的框架中找到自己的出路变得越来越容易。 “迷失在新框架中”的感觉是可怕的，就像快要崩溃了。 而且我不介意使用许多新工具，我的意思是确定这意味着我正在不断地寻找事物并询问人们。 大多数框架都有大量的文档，IRC频道会回答您的问题，它们会首先取笑您，但是没关系(笑声)，依此类推，所以我并不介意。 我从事的许多工作都是非常小的高性能应用程序，因此我是API的专家，该API往往很小，没有很多类，但负载很大。

Louis: Right.

路易斯：对。

Lorna: So it’s not that unusual for me to build those without a framework, but I really try not to reinvent the wheel, even if I’m building sort of not using a frameworks MVC I’ll be using helper libraries from one of the frameworks from z2 component, something from PEAR, you know, I really try hard not to reinvent stuff, and there’s loads of places where you can pick and mix and that helper functionality to do your calendar stuff, your PDF stuff, whatever it is you’re working on.

Lorna：因此，我在没有框架的情况下构建框架并没有什么异常，但我确实尽力避免重新发明轮子，即使我构建的不是使用框架MVC，我也会使用其中一个框架中的帮助程序库。 z2组件的框架，PEAR的框架，您知道的，我真的很努力不去重新发明东西，并且有很多地方可以选择和混合使用，并且可以使用辅助功能来处理日历，PDF或其他内容。正在努力。

Louis: Yeah, that’s one thing that’s fantastic about it, well, it’s a blessing and a curse in the case of PHP is that there’s all this stuff out there, whatever you want there’s a function that does it; it probably has a completely different interface from every other function though.

路易斯：是的，这是一件很了不起的事情，嗯，对于PHP来说，这是一种祝福和诅咒，因为那里有很多东西，无论您想要什么，都有一个功能可以实现。 它可能具有与其他所有功能完全不同的接口。

Lorna: Oh, well, of course, but the interface is there and you can choose to use it, and when it’s too incongruous, and some of the — even the built-in modules have some really awkward interfaces, you know someone’s always written a better wrapper for it and that can make a great starting point to make it more consistent with the application that you’re working on.

Lorna：哦，当然，但是有接口，您可以选择使用它，当它太不协调时，其中一些-甚至内置模块也有一些非常尴尬的接口，您知道有人总是写的一个更好的包装器，可以作为一个很好的起点，使其与您正在处理的应用程序更加一致。

Louis: Right. Did you guys end up talking about frameworks at all in the book or is that something you sort of shied away from because that’s such a big topic to start getting into, all the different frameworks?

路易斯：对。 你们最终还是在书中讨论了框架吗？还是因为有些不同的框架而开始涉足这个大话题，所以您回避了一些东西？

Lorna: Well, this is the thing, it’s very difficult to talk in general terms about frameworks, they all solve more-or-less the same problems kind of in different ways, and each one has their own ethos. There are great books out on pretty much all of the frameworks, so I think we pretty much left it at saying Frameworks are a great way of giving you structure in your applications, of giving you something to kind of hang it on, because when we’re building a large application it needs to have some structure in it, it can be quite difficult to architect that; which framework you choose it really doesn’t matter. The way that I choose is I look at frameworks where the documentation seems comprehensive, the people are reasonable, I think I could get help if I get stuck, and beyond that you know it doesn’t really matter; you can build most things with most frameworks.

Lorna：嗯，这就是问题，用一般术语谈论框架非常困难，它们或多或少都以不同的方式解决了相同的问题，并且每个人都有自己的精神。 关于几乎所有框架的书籍都很棒，所以我认为我们几乎可以说框架是在您的应用程序中为您提供结构，为您提供某种形式的基础的好方法，因为当我们在构建一个大型应用程序时，需要在其中具有某种结构，而对其进行架构可能非常困难； 选择哪种框架真的没有关系。 我选择的方式是，查看那些文档看起来很全面，人们很合理的框架，我认为如果遇到困难，我可以得到帮助，除此之外，您知道那并不重要。 您可以使用大多数框架构建大多数东西。

Louis: Yeah, absolutely. And there’s a lot to be said for just sort of looking at the code of various frameworks as a way of learning how well structured code, or what well structured code looks like.

路易斯：是的，绝对。 在学习各种框架的代码以了解结构化代码的好坏或结构化代码的样子方面，有很多话要说。

Lorna: Yeah, and certainly when you’re working with one don’t be afraid to drill in and see how it is solving this problem, where is the magic and how does it work? I just think that can be really interesting to look how people have built that, and sometimes when you need to break the rules for whatever reason you’re going to be overriding that functionality, so it’s a great part of your education almost to bring frameworks into your code base and to really get in; don’t put them in a black box and talk to them from a distance, like get involved and learn about them.

洛娜：是的，当然，当您与他人一起工作时，不要害怕钻研一下，看看它是如何解决这个问题的，魔术在哪里，它是如何工作的？ 我只是认为看看人们是如何构建的，这真的很有趣，有时当您出于任何原因需要违反规则时，您将要覆盖该功能，因此，几乎要带上框架是您学习的重要部分进入您的代码库并真正进入； 不要将它们放在黑匣子中并与他们进行远距离交谈，例如参与并了解它们。

Louis: Yeah, absolutely. That’s one of the things for someone just learning how to do well structured PHP, say, they can be daunting, that step of sort of opening up these framework source files and starting to read through them because a lot of times that stuff looks very over-architected because it’s done to be so generic and usable in all these cases, so things will be abstracted away by a couple levels, whereas you’re used to reading functions in books teaching you PHP or in tutorials or in your own code that it’s one function and it does something very clear, when you read the framework code it can be — it looks much more abstracted but there’s a lot to be learned from that kind of structure, and like you said, when you get to building any app that’s a little bit larger that’s invaluable.

路易斯：是的，绝对。 对于那些刚刚学习如何做好结构良好PHP的人来说，这就是一回事，比如说，这可能令人望而生畏，因为打开这些框架源文件并开始通读它们的步骤是很多步骤，因为很多时候这些东西看起来都已经结束了。 -architecture，因为它在所有这些情况下都是如此通用且可用，因此事情将被抽象成两层，而您习惯于在教PHP的书，教程或您自己的代码中阅读函数一个函数，它做的很清楚，当您阅读框架代码时，它看起来可能是抽象的，但是从这种结构中可以学到很多东西，就像您说的那样，当您要构建任何应用程序时，更大一点，这是无价的。

Lorna: Yeah, totally agree.

洛娜：是的，完全同意。

Louis: Awesome. Coming back to the book, you worked on it with a few other authors, is that right?

路易斯：太好了。 回到这本书，您是和其他几位作者一起工作的，对吗？

Lorna: Yeah, so I had two co-author, and this was really funny because so I’m negotiating with SitePoint and they’re saying “oh we’d love you to work on our book, find yourself some co-authors,” so I’m oh, okay, great, anyone I know? Oh, no I don’t think so; two guys, one is named Matt Turland and one’s named David Shafik. Well, both of them of course speakers on the PHP circuit, even though they live in the U.S. and I’m in Europe they’re friends of mine, I see them when I’m over there at conferences, Dave is actually originally British so he’s very occasionally over here to see his folks, so that was kind of a big surprise and a really positive thing that they’re both people that I knew already, and it just made those IRC arguments about exactly who got to write about which thing where topics were falling between chapters, just made the whole thing easier because we’re already mates, have already done the putting the face to a name process with those guys and they’re both friends of mine. So, they’re also both wonderfully well qualified, so both of them have previous books that they’ve written and were a great support to me, this is my first book.

Lorna：是的，所以我有两位合著者，这真的很有趣，因为我正在与SitePoint进行谈判，他们说：“哦，我们希望您能继续努力，找到自己的合著者， ”“所以我哦，好吧，太好了，我认识的人吗？ 哦，不，我不这么认为。 两个家伙，一个叫Matt Turland，另一个叫David Shafik。 好吧，他们俩当然都是PHP巡回演讲的人，尽管他们住在美国，我在欧洲，他们是我的朋友，但是当我在会议上见到他们时，我看到了他们，Dave实际上本来是英国人因此，他偶尔会来这里与他的同伴见面，这真是一个很大的惊喜，而且我俩都是我已经认识的人，这确实是一件很积极的事情，这也使IRC争论了到底谁该写哪个话题落在各章之间，这使整个事情变得容易，因为我们已经成为伴侣，并且已经与这些家伙进行了命名流程，而且他们都是我的朋友。 因此，他们也都非常有资格，所以他们俩都有以前写过的书，对我有很大的支持，这是我的第一本书。

Louis: Alright, congratulations.

路易斯：好的，恭喜。

Lorna: Thank you.

洛娜：谢谢。

Louis: Are you all done; is it in the clear now?

路易斯：大家都做完了； 现在清楚了吗？

Lorna: It’s still in final language edit so we’re getting a few queries coming back, but I don’t have to actually write anything more, they’re kind of in the process of untangling the last bits making us all sound like each other which is a real challenge for three different people, and if you met us we’re three really different people.

Lorna：它仍处于最终语言编辑中，因此我们要返回一些查询，但是我不必再写其他任何东西，它们只是在弄清最后一点的过程中，使得我们每个人听起来都一样另一个对于三个不同的人是一个真正的挑战，如果您遇到我们，我们将是三个完全不同的人。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Lorna: But that’s cool because we’ve all sort of brought something different to it, we all have different experiences, and the way that we split up the chapters just everyone wrote about what they were most excited about and it worked out really well.

Lorna：但这很酷，因为我们给它带来了一些不同的东西，我们都有着不同的经历，而且我们分开了每个人写的关于他们最兴奋的内容的章节，而且效果很好。

Louis: That’s cool. Which bits were you working on primarily?

路易斯：太酷了。 您主要从事哪些工作？

Lorna: Well, of course I think I’ve got the best chapters (laughter).

洛娜：嗯，当然，我想我有最好的章节(笑声)。

Louis: And if everyone thinks that we won.

路易斯：如果每个人都认为我们赢了。

Lorna: (Laughs) Yeah, I think the boys would say the same. So, I have a chapter on databases being able to talk about using PDO from PHP, a little bit about database design, just bringing it from the “this is a table, this is another table, we have a phone key,” into how to add indexes into your project, how to normalize your data; actually working with PDO. We have this great library talking to databases in PHP, it’s object oriented and I think that sometimes puts people off, so I was really excited to write that chapter in particular because if you’ve got a good data structure you can solve most of the problems, there’s also some nice bits about de-normalizing your data in Davey’s performance chapter which kind of follows on.

洛娜：(笑)是的，我想男孩们也会这么说。 因此，我有一章涉及数据库，可以讨论使用PHP中的PDO，有关数据库设计的一些知识，只是将其从“这是一个表，这是另一个表，我们有一个电话键”中引入来了。在项目中添加索引，如何规范化数据； 实际上与PDO合作。 我们有一个很棒的库，用PHP谈论数据库，它是面向对象的，我认为这有时会让人们望而却步，所以我特别为写这一章而感到兴奋，因为如果您有一个很好的数据结构，就可以解决大多数问题。问题，在Davey的性能一章中，还可以对数据进行非规范化处理，这是很不错的一点。

Louis: Right. So for anyone who’s not familiar let’s say, in the audience, what we mean by normalization and de-normalization maybe you can just drop into that for a second.

路易斯：对。 因此，对于不熟悉的人来说，在听众中，我们所说的归一化和非归一化意味着什么，您也许可以稍等片刻。

Lorna: Oh, yeah.

洛娜：哦，是的。

Louis: The cliff’s notes version.

路易斯：悬崖的音符版本。

Lorna: Yeah. So, in a real shorthand, if you have any kind of repeated data in tables, comma separated values in a column, that’s de-normalized data, like we can improve it by refactoring out to a different column, but sometimes it’s hard to identify the patterns where you should have another table or you don’t need one, if you split things out you have to write joins and it can really get a bit complicated, particularly when you’re just learning. So, this idea of normalizing data we showed you when you should split things out, how to identify whether your data needs some more normalization. And then we also show how to do different joins and how to add indexes to make those joins perform much better, so it’s like a real overall database design element. The examples use MySQL but those theories, those concepts, apply to all kinds of different database backends, so I’m hoping they’ll be useful to all kinds of different people.

罗娜：是的。 因此，实际上，如果您在表中有任何重复的数据，则在列中用逗号分隔的值就是非规范化数据，就像我们可以通过重构到不同的列来改进它一样，但是有时很难识别那些应该有另一个表或不需要一个表的模式，如果您将内容拆分开，则必须编写联接，它确实会变得有些复杂，尤其是在您刚刚学习时。 因此，这种标准化数据的想法向您展示了何时应该拆分数据，如何识别数据是否需要更多标准化。 然后，我们还将展示如何执行不同的联接，以及如何添加索引以使这些联接的性能更好，因此这就像一个真正的整体数据库设计元素。 这些示例使用MySQL，但是这些理论和概念适用于各种不同的数据库后端，因此我希望它们对各种不同的人都有用。

Louis: Yeah, right. I think it’s probably a pretty safe bet to go with MySQL especially when you’re writing in PHP.

路易斯：是的，对。 我认为使用MySQL可能是一个相当安全的选择，尤其是在用PHP编写时。

Lorna: Yeah, but I’m increasingly coming across certainly my enterprise clients who are not using MySQL. You know MySQL doesn’t have a salesman that comes around and takes people out for lunch.

Lorna：是的，但是我肯定会越来越多地使用不使用MySQL的企业客户。 您知道MySQL没有推销员来带人出去吃午餐。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Lorna: So sometimes I find PHP developers typically on a heavy Unix or Linux backend or maybe they’re using Oracle, and lots and lots of IAS and SQL server, so I was really — it’s good to get the databases chapter focused on PDO because you can use PDO against all of those backends and many more. So that databases chapter is surprisingly transferable across different technologies, and I think that reflects PHP sort of penetrating different industries now.

Lorna：所以有时候我会发现PHP开发人员通常是在重型Unix或Linux后端上使用，或者也许他们正在使用Oracle，以及很多IAS和SQL Server，所以我的确是这样-使数据库这一章专注于PDO是一件好事，因为您可以针对所有这些后端以及更多其他后端使用PDO。 因此，该数据库章节可以在不同技术之间进行转换，并且我认为这反映了PHP现在正在渗透不同行业。

Louis: Yeah, that’s interesting. So you say you have clients using PHP on an IAS and SQL server stack.

路易斯：是的，这很有趣。 因此，您说您的客户在IAS和SQL服务器堆栈上使用PHP。

Lorna: Yeah, absolutely. And something that I’m coming across I’d say increasingly, you know, and I kind of had a couple of them a couple years ago, and now I’d say sort of 25% of the people that I work with are on a sort of non-standard LAMP Stack in whichever direction, and that IAS SQL server is, first of all it’s pretty common, and secondly, it’s absolutely a perfectly acceptable way to run PHP; PHP performs perfectly well in Windows now. So, yeah, I don’t know a whole lot about it but it’s something I’m seeing.

洛娜：是的，绝对。 我碰到的事情我会越来越多地说，你知道，几年前我有几个，现在我说与我一起工作的人中有25％无论哪种方向，都是那种非标准的LAMP堆栈，而该IAS SQL Server首先很常见，其次，它绝对是运行PHP的完全可接受的方法； PHP现在在Windows中的运行情况非常好。 所以，是的，我对此一无所知，但这是我所看到的。

Louis: So it’s interesting to see PHP not only maturing as a language but also sort of infiltrating other environments, for example, on Windows in the early days of PHP would’ve never seen PHP on Windows but now a common occurrence.

路易斯：因此，有趣的是，不仅看到PHP作为一种语言日趋成熟，而且还渗透到其他环境中，例如，在PHP成立之初，它在Windows上就从未见过Windows上PHP，而如今却屡见不鲜。

Lorna: Yeah, absolutely. And I think a good thing, PHP is ubiquitous, it’s something that 60% of the Web runs on it, that’s cool and I like that’s it’s getting around the place. And I like that in PHP we have things like PDO, there’s a general recognition in the community that it’s totally acceptable to run PHP on Windows, which is a shame because you know I quite enjoyed making fun of people doing it, (laughter) but now I can’t, there’s no reason to. So, yeah, the databases chapter was one of my favorites, they were all my favorites; I don’t know who I’m trying to persuade here.

洛娜：是的，绝对。 而且我认为，PHP无处不在，这是60％的Web都在上面运行的东西，这很酷，我喜欢这样的地方。 而且我喜欢在PHP中使用PDO之类的东西，社区中普遍认可在Windows上运行PHP是完全可以接受的，这很可惜，因为您知道我很喜欢取笑这样做的人，(笑声)但是现在我不能，没有理由。 是的，数据库一章是我的最爱之一，它们都是我的最爱； 我不知道我想在这里说服谁。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Lorna: I also wrote about the kind of object orientation trying to introduce that to functional programmers, lots of people come into PHP and they may have come from other languages, but the same number come from HTML and CSS or JavaScript come into PHP and they reckon everybody can get into it, you either understand OOP or you don’t and it’s not dependent on what you know already it’s just something about you whether this kind of stuff makes sense, so I wrote the OOP chapter kind of introducing it but then also showing so much that you can do with it and really looking at things like interfaces and magic methods and designing inheritance and making decisions about those public private protected access modifiers and just try to give some real pragmatic advice in a way that makes it, you know, approachable. Because most PHP developers, like you say, are not academics, we’re all solving problems, we’re all trying to get our jobs done, and that’s the tone of the book very much. And so I have this whole OOP chapter and we also have a design paterns chapter, so a lot of the complexity that you see in the frameworks comes back to they’re actually expressing common design patrns, so we’ve added a chapter on those to the book, so you can kind of start to identify with actually going on and use them in your own applications as well.

Lorna：我也写过一篇关于面向对象的文章，试图向功能程序员介绍，很多人进入PHP，他们可能来自其他语言，但是同样的人来自HTML，CSS或JavaScript，而他们也来自PHP。认为每个人都可以进入它，您要么了解OOP，要么您不了解OOP，并且它不依赖于您已经知道的东西，这是否对您有意义，所以我写了OOP章节来介绍它，但是然后还展示了很多您可以使用的功能，并真正地研究了诸如接口和魔术方法之类的东西，并设计了继承关系，并对那些公共私有受保护的访问修饰符做出了决定，并尝试以某种方式给出一些实际的实用建议，知道，平易近人。 正如您所说的那样，由于大多数PHP开发人员都不是学者，因此我们都在解决问题，我们都在努力完成工作，而这正是本书的基调。 因此，我在整个OOP章节中都有一章，在设计章节中也有一章，所以您在框架中看到的许多复杂性实际上都在于它们表达了常见的设计模式，因此我们在这些章节中添加了一章。本书，因此您可以从实际操作中识别出来，并在自己的应用程序中使用它们。

Louis: Sounds like a lot of fun, I’m looking forward to having a read. So correct me if I’m wrong but the book is supposedly going to come out some time around late October?

路易斯：听起来很有趣，我期待阅读。 因此，如果我错了，请纠正我，但据说这本书将在十月下旬出版。

Lorna: Yeah, so that’s the way that I understand it, everything’s delivered, they are working on the edits at the moment, we’re all getting the occasional “no I don’t know what you meant” comments coming back (laughter), so once we’ve cleaned up all those glitches, and it’s going through getting printed and everything, it’ll be literally, yeah, the end of October. So I’m kind of excited to have it in my hands and we’re really looking forward to it.

Lorna：是的，这就是我的理解方式，所有内容均已交付，他们目前正在进行编辑，我们偶尔都会收到“不，我不知道你的意思”的评论(笑声) ，因此，一旦我们清理了所有这些故障，并完成了打印和所有操作，那么从字面上看，是的，十月底。 因此，我为能拿到它感到很兴奋，我们真的很期待它。

Louis: Yeah, it’s a fantastic thing. From the time I spent working in publishing at SitePoint that moment when the box of books arrives is the winner, especially if you’ve had a couple of very, very late nights finishing it up.

路易斯：是的，这是一件了不起的事情。 从我在SitePoint从事出版工作的那一刻起，书本就到了那一刻才是赢家，尤其是如果您已经经历了非常非常晚的几个晚上。

Lorna: Right. I’m really looking forward to that.

洛娜：对。 我真的很期待。

Louis: A physical product. And it’s very different especially for us as web developers who spend our time making things that are fundamentally ephemeral, right, things that don’t have a concrete nature to them I guess; in the sense of organizing a conference you’d have some similar experience of something coming together.

路易斯：一种实物产品。 这对我们来说是非常不同的，作为Web开发人员，他们花费时间来制作根本上是短暂的东西，对的，我猜这些东西没有具体的本质。 从组织会议的意义上讲，您会有一些类似的经历，包括一些会议。

Lorna: Yeah. It’s just sort of all arrives, and the conference is like we stand there as the main hall fills up on the morning, and I co-organized with a guy names Jeremy Coates, and every year we’ve done it the two of us have stood there watching this hall fill up and going “what have we done, what have we done?” It’s just amazing and I think it’s going to be a little bit like that, “wow, it’s real!”

罗娜：是的。 几乎所有的东西都到了，会议就像我们站在大厅，早上大厅满了，我和一个叫Jeremy Coates的人一起组织起来，每年我们都做到了，我们两个站在那儿看着这个大厅满满地走着，“我们做了什么，我们做了什么？” 真是太神奇了，我想这会有点像，“哇，这是真的！”

Louis: I wish you a very similar experience when you get the printed books.

路易斯：希望您获得印刷书籍时也能获得类似的体验。

Lorna: Yeah.

罗娜：是的。

Louis: So before we close this podcast I just wanted to mention that yourself and the SitePoint podcast have something in common which is to say that we’re both nominated for the .net Magazine Awards, is that right?

路易斯：所以在关闭此播客之前，我只想提及一下您自己和SitePoint播客有一些共同点，那就是我们俩都被提名.net杂志奖，对吗？

Lorna: Yeah, so this came as a complete shock to me. Now, it’s really — it’s much cooler because I read .net mag and occasionally I write for them, and they’re based in Britain so I see them at all the events here and so on, and they’re such cool guys. But somebody, and I have yet to find out who, nominated me for their Developer of the Year, so yeah.

洛娜：是的，这让我感到震惊。 现在，确实如此-它很酷，因为我阅读.net mag并偶尔为他们写信，而且它们都位于英国，所以我在这里等所有活动中都看到他们，他们真是太好了。 但是有人，而且我还没有找出谁提名我为他们的年度开发商，所以，是的。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Lorna: There’s all these famous people and me in this list of Developer of the Year nominees, and there’s all these different categories, loads of interesting people, and it’s great because if you go there, I think it’s thenetawards.com, then you have a look and everybody you click through to is doing something really interesting, so yeah, voting’s open until the end of September and, ooh, it’s all kind of exciting.

Lorna：在“年度开发者”提名名单中，所有这些名人和我都有，而且这些类别各不相同，有趣的人很多，这很棒，因为如果您去那里，我认为那是thenetwards.com ，那么您就有a look and everybody you click through to is doing something really interesting, so yeah, voting's open until the end of September and, ooh, it's all kind of exciting.

Louis: That’s awesome. It’s interesting to see this kind of curated list of what’s going on in the Web world, there’s all kinds of cool stuff and their Redesign of the Year and lots of really fun stuff if anyone’s — anyone who is involved in the Web industry even have a look at it, obviously we’re both going to put a plug in there and ask for your votes for both the SitePoint Podcast in the podcast category, and Lorna in the Developer of the Year category. Am I correct in thinking that the Developer of the Year is a new category, was that not there in previous years?

路易斯：太棒了。 It's interesting to see this kind of curated list of what's going on in the Web world, there's all kinds of cool stuff and their Redesign of the Year and lots of really fun stuff if anyone's — anyone who is involved in the Web industry even have a look at it, obviously we're both going to put a plug in there and ask for your votes for both the SitePoint Podcast in the podcast category, and Lorna in the Developer of the Year category. Am I correct in thinking that the Developer of the Year is a new category, was that not there in previous years?

Lorna: It wasn’t, so they’ve made Developer of the Year, Designer of the Year, and they’ve also got, and I think this is awesome, they’ve also got the Young Developer of the Year, and the Young Designer of the Year, actually focusing on people who are right in the start of their careers doing something remarkable, so those four categories are new, they have other new categories as well which escape me of course (laughter). But, yeah, no I think it’s quite exciting, and like I say for me it’s been really interesting to find out about all these other people, not necessarily in PHP specifically but in the Web world doing all this interesting stuff. So while all the listeners are on the page voting for us they should also click through and see all these other things are going on in our industry.

Lorna: It wasn't, so they've made Developer of the Year, Designer of the Year, and they've also got, and I think this is awesome, they've also got the Young Developer of the Year, and the Young Designer of the Year, actually focusing on people who are right in the start of their careers doing something remarkable, so those four categories are new, they have other new categories as well which escape me of course (laughter). But, yeah, no I think it's quite exciting, and like I say for me it's been really interesting to find out about all these other people, not necessarily in PHP specifically but in the Web world doing all this interesting stuff. So while all the listeners are on the page voting for us they should also click through and see all these other things are going on in our industry.

Louis: Yeah, absolutely fantastic stuff. And if I’m reading the list correctly, I’m not sure how good I am with identifying first names, but on the Developer of the Year list you’re the only woman?

Louis: Yeah, absolutely fantastic stuff. And if I'm reading the list correctly, I'm not sure how good I am with identifying first names, but on the Developer of the Year list you're the only woman?

Lorna: Correct.

Lorna: Correct.

Louis: Well, congratulations on that and I wish you really all the best.

Louis: Well, congratulations on that and I wish you really all the best.

Lorna: Thanks.

Lorna: Thanks.

Louis: Because it’s great to have more diversity on the backend, and in development in general.

Louis: Because it's great to have more diversity on the backend, and in development in general.

Lorna: Yeah, I think so. I must say that most people have commented how I’m the only PHP developer and how pleased they are to see one.

Lorna: Yeah, I think so. I must say that most people have commented how I'm the only PHP developer and how pleased they are to see one.

Louis: (Laughs)

Louis: (Laughs)

Lorna: It’s like being a minority for more than one direction.

Lorna: It's like being a minority for more than one direction.

Louis: (Laughs) That one’s great, I like that joke. Alright, well thanks so much, Lorna; if people want to keep up with you where’s your blog, are you on Twitter?

Louis: (Laughs) That one's great, I like that joke. Alright, well thanks so much, Lorna; if people want to keep up with you where's your blog, are you on Twitter?

Lorna: Yeah, both, I am Lornajane.net is my site and I’m @Lornajane on Twitter so that should be easy to join up the two.

Lorna: Yeah, both, I am Lornajane.net is my site and I'm @Lornajane on Twitter so that should be easy to join up the two.

Louis: Fantastic. Alright, well thanks very much and talk to you again soon I hope.

Louis: Fantastic. Alright, well thanks very much and talk to you again soon I hope.

Lorna: Thanks a lot, Lou!

Lorna: Thanks a lot, Lou!

Louis: And thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the SitePoint Podcast. I’d love to hear what you thought about today’s show, so if you have any thoughts or suggestions just go to sitepoint.com/podcast and you can leave a comment on today’s episode, you can also get any of our previous episodes to download or subscribe to get the show automatically. You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, that’s SitePoint d-o-t-c-o-m, and you can follow me on Twitter @rssaddict. The show this week was produced by Karn Broad and I’m Louis Simoneau. Thanks for listening and bye for now.

路易斯：感谢您收听本周的SitePoint播客。 我很想听听您对今天节目的看法，因此，如果您有任何想法或建议，请访问sitepoint.com/podcast ，您可以对今天的节目发表评论，也可以下载我们以前的任何节目或订阅自动显示节目。 您可以在Twitter @sitepointdotcom (即SitePoint dotcom)上关注SitePoint ，也可以在Twitter @rssaddict上关注我。 The show this week was produced by Karn Broad and I'm Louis Simoneau. Thanks for listening and bye for now.

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Mike Mella的主题音乐。

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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-129-taking-php-to-the-next-level-with-lorna-mitchell/