In this episode of the Versioning Show, David and Tim are joined by Azat Mardan, a software engineering manager at Capital One, author, teacher, conference speaker, Node expert and Paleo enthusiast. They discuss online security and social engineering, speaking at conferences and knowing your subject, writing blog posts and books instead of playing video games, cool books to read, going grain free, and DDoS rental services.
在Versioning Show的这一集中，David和Tim以及Capital One的软件工程经理，作者，老师，会议发言人，Node专家和古乐爱好者与Azat Mardan一起参加了会议。 他们讨论在线安全和社会工程，在会议上发言并了解您的主题，撰写博客文章和书籍，而不是玩视频游戏，阅读精美书籍，免费获取粮食和DDoS租赁服务。
显示笔记 (Show Notes)
Check out Rollbar’s free Bootstrap Plan sign up offer
查看Rollbar的免费Bootstrap计划注册优惠
5 Hacks to Getting the Job of Your Dreams to Live a Happier and Healthier Life
David’s San Francisco photography meetup group
大卫的旧金山摄影聚会小组
Say hello on Twitter: @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom
在Twitter上问好： @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom
对话重点 (Conversation Highlights)
Before React, it was mostly Node.js, Express.js and JavaScript on the back end. Because before Node.js, you couldn’t use JavaScript on the server, right. So, we had to use some mother language or a framework, like Java or Python or PHP and any other developer. I was doing exactly that; I was using multiple languages, and with Node.js, I could use just one language, so it was just magic for me.
在React之前，后端主要是Node.js，Express.js和JavaScript。 因为在使用Node.js之前，您不能在服务器上使用JavaScript。 因此，我们必须使用某种母语或框架，例如Java或Python或PHP以及任何其他开发人员。 我正是这样做的； 我使用了多种语言，而使用Node.js时，我只能使用一种语言，所以这对我来说真是神奇。
Then I taught myself Python. Actually, I wrote my first book while still at university, doing my Bachelors. And then a year later, my classmates had to use my textbook to do the labs. They didn’t like that, so … that was a funny story.
然后我自学了Python。 实际上，我还在读大学时就读了我的第一本书，当时是我的学士学位。 然后一年后，我的同学不得不用我的课本来做实验。 他们不喜欢这样，所以……那是一个有趣的故事。
Basically, I’m sharing my lessons about writing and sharing some of the tools and tactics I used. That I wrote basically on a train from a conference. I took a train from Portland back to San Francisco — to Emeryville, California — and I had one day and one night. I wrote 5000 words. That was the basis. It’s a small book, but still, it’s kind of a book — 80 pages.
基本上，我正在分享有关编写和共享我使用的一些工具和策略的课程。 我基本上是在会议上的火车上写的。 我从波特兰乘火车回到旧金山，再到加利福尼亚的埃默里维尔，一天又一个晚上。 我写了5000字。 那是基础。 这是一本小书，但还是一本书，共有80页。
I think if you’re confident and you know what your subject, the actual mechanical process of typing your thoughts out, it’s not that long. Maybe two weeks if you haven’t done it before, a few days if you did.
我认为，如果您有信心，并且知道您的主题，表达想法的实际机械过程，那不会太久。 如果您之前没有做过，则可能需要两个星期；如果您之前没有做过，则可能需要几天。
Once you play the video game right, you get that satisfaction. My satisfaction is creating a book. … my motivation is like, okay, the video games — other people are not going to benefit from that. I won’t get extra income from that, or get any amazing opportunities like, for example, traveling to a cool city and speaking at a conference …
一旦正确玩了视频游戏，您就会感到满意。 我很满意正在写一本书。 ……我的动机就像是电子游戏一样，其他人不会从中受益。 我不会从中获得额外的收入，也不会获得任何令人惊奇的机会，例如，去凉爽的城市并在会议上讲话……
there is like so many more benefits of doing that stuff versus just playing video games, so for me it’s just no brainer. I come home and it’s like,
Okay, so what I’m going to do with my next two hours before going to bed?I’m like,Oh, I’m going to learn something, write a blog post or work on a new online course.与仅仅玩视频游戏相比，做这些事情有更多的好处，所以对我而言，这简直就是天才。 我回家了，就像，
好吧，那我睡前两个小时该怎么办？我想，哦，我要学习一些东西，写博客文章或从事新的在线课程。
You’re not going to master something unless you teach it, right? When you’re there in front of a class of people, of 50 people, and usually they’re very smart and they know a lot … If you’re giving a talk at a conference, teaching a class, you better come prepared. That’s like an extra motivation. Without that, it’s harder to learn.
除非您教它，否则您不会精通某些东西，对吗？ 当您在一群人的面前时，有50个人，他们通常很聪明，他们知道很多……如果您在会议上进行演讲，讲授课程，则最好做好准备。 这就像一种额外的动力。 没有它，就很难学习。
For some reason, security cameras actually are good bots — all those Internet of Things devices — and then you rent it to other people.
由于某种原因，安全摄像机实际上是好的机器人-所有那些物联网设备-然后您将其出租给其他人。
成绩单 (Transcript)
-
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Hey, what’s up everybody. This is Tim Evko …
嘿，大家好吗？ 这是Tim Evko…
David:
大卫：
-
… and this is M. David Green …
…这是大卫·格林(M. David Green)…
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
… and you’re listening to episode number 26 of the Versioning podcast.
…，您正在收听Versioning播客的第26集。
David:
大卫：
-
This is a place where we get together to discuss the industry of the web, from development to design, with some of the people making it happen today and planning where it’s headed in the next version.
在这里，我们可以聚在一起讨论从开发到设计的网络行业，其中一些人将其付诸实践，并计划下一版的发展方向。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
So, today we are going to be talking with Azat Mardan, and we’re going to be speaking about JavaScript, having a career in tech, and engineering culture. So let’s go ahead and get this version started.
因此，今天我们将要与Azat Mardan进行交流，并且我们将谈论JavaScript，在技术和工程文化领域有事业。 因此，让我们开始安装该版本。
-
Hey, Azat. Welcome to the show.
嘿，阿扎特 欢迎参加演出。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Hello everyone. Thanks for having me, David and Tim.
大家好。 感谢您有我，大卫和蒂姆。
David:
大卫：
-
We’re really glad to have you here, and since this is the Versioning show, we usually like to start off with a philosophical question, and our philosophical question for you today is this:
In your current career, what version are you, and why?
我们真的很高兴您在这里，由于这是Versioning展览，我们通常希望从一个哲学问题开始，而今天我们对您的哲学问题是：
在您当前的职业中，您是哪个版本，以及为什么？
Azat:
Azat：
-
What version … that’s a great question. I should have been prepared better! [Chuckles] I think there’s the alpha and beta, so I’m definitely beta, right? But then, I would like to consider myself, alpha, not a beta type of person, so … here you go.
什么版本……这是一个很好的问题。 我应该准备得更好！ [笑声]我认为这里有alpha和beta，所以我绝对是beta，对吧？ 但是，我想考虑一下我自己，阿尔法，而不是贝塔类型的人，所以……在这里。
[Laughter]
[笑声]
David:
大卫：
-
Is that alpha as in dogs or alpha as in —
是像狗一样的alpha，还是像—
Azat:
Azat：
-
Alpha dog, alpha dog, yeah.
阿尔法狗，阿尔法狗，是的。
David:
大卫：
-
Alpha dog, fair enough.
阿尔法狗，足够公平。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Or the better software, I guess. I guess better software is better than alpha dog.
我猜还是更好的软件。 我想更好的软件要比alpha狗更好。
David:
大卫：
-
I can agree with that.
我可以同意。
Cool, we’ve seen a lot of your videos out there, read some of your books — you’ve been so prolific communicating information. Can you tell us a little bit about what sorts of things you’ve been writing about?
太好了，我们已经看到了很多您的视频，读了一些书-您交流信息的过程非常多。 您能告诉我们一些您正在写的东西吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Oh, thank you. Yes, trying to be as prolific as possible. So writing on React lately — React Quickly is my latest book. Been really fascinated with this small UI library, and it really, really, kind of reignited this passion about front-end development, because front-end development could be tricky. It has a lot of moving parts, and it’s not very convenient in terms of the developer experience and in terms of other, kind of, how do you connect all those moving pieces and develop. So, I was really passionate and excited last year about React.
哦谢谢。 是的，尽量多产。 因此，最近在React上写文章-React Quickly是我的最新著作。 对这个小型UI库非常着迷，并且确实，这确实重新激发了人们对前端开发的热情，因为前端开发可能很棘手。 它有很多活动部件，从开发人员的经验以及其他方面来说，如何连接所有这些活动部件并进行开发并不是很方便。 因此，去年我对React感到非常兴奋和兴奋。
Before React, it was mostly Node.js, Express.js and JavaScript on the back end. Because before Node.js, you couldn’t use JavaScript on the server, right. So, we had to use some other language or a framework, like Java or Python or PHP. And, as any other developer, I was doing exactly that: I was using multiple languages, and with Node.js, I could use just one language, so it was just magic for me.
在React之前，后端主要是Node.js，Express.js和JavaScript。 因为在使用Node.js之前，您不能在服务器上使用JavaScript。 因此，我们不得不使用其他语言或框架，例如Java或Python或PHP。 而且，和其他开发人员一样，我正在这样做：我使用多种语言，并且使用Node.js，我只能使用一种语言，所以这对我来说真是神奇。
David:
大卫：
-
Made a difference for a lot of us. When you started doing your development work, how did you come into development in the first place? Do you have a degree?
对我们很多人都产生了影响。 当您开始进行开发工作时，首先是如何进行开发的？ 你有学位吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Oh, okay. If we start way back, yes, I did my Bachelors in Informatics and Economics. I did that back in Russia, and I came here to the United States to do a Masters in Information Systems Technology — so somewhat related to Computer Science. It’s kind of a blend between Computer Science and Project Management. That was interesting, because you could learn ASP.NET in a class, at university, and then apply it at your work, with some of the projects on your resume. So I like that.
哦好的。 如果从头开始，是的，我获得了信息学和经济学学士学位。 我是在俄罗斯做的，然后来到美国，攻读信息系统技术硕士学位，这与计算机科学有些相关。 它是计算机科学和项目管理之间的一种融合。 这很有趣，因为您可以在大学的一堂课中学习ASP.NET，然后将其应用到您的工作中，并在简历中添加一些项目。 所以我喜欢。
And then just self taught — most of it self-taught PHP, self-taught a bunch of other languages. So learning never stops, right? Taking online courses and reading books, especially now in our industry. And right now, I’m enrolled in Harvard University — Harvard Extension School — so I’m taking a Cybersecurity certificate, which later will be a Masters Degree in Social Engineering. So I’m constantly updating my skills.
然后只是自学-大部分是自学PHP，是自学其他语言。 所以学习永无止境，对吗？ 参加在线课程和阅读书籍，尤其是在我们这个行业。 现在，我就读于哈佛大学-哈佛扩展学校-因此，我获得了网络安全证书，该证书以后将获得社会工程学的硕士学位。 因此，我正在不断更新自己的技能。
Tim [4:30]:
蒂姆[4:30] ：
-
Well, that is certainly very impressive, and now I feel like I certainly have no excuse. I should go learn more things. But I’m very interested, how did you, from college, transition into web development?
好吧，那当然令人印象深刻，现在我觉得我当然没有任何借口。 我应该去学习更多的东西。 但是我非常感兴趣，从大学开始，您是如何过渡到Web开发的？
Azat:
Azat：
-
I actually was doing web development in college, so my professor had a project, and instead of just going to his lectures and learning by going to the lectures and doing some boring exercises, I just developed this project, basically, where people can online see their attendance and other professors and teachers, they can mark their attendance. So kind of an early learning management system.
我实际上是在大学里做网络开发的，所以我的教授有一个项目，而不仅仅是去看他的讲座和去听讲座并做一些无聊的练习，我只是开发了这个项目，基本上，人们可以在网上看到他们的出席以及其他教授和老师，他们可以标记他们的出席。 这样的一种早期学习管理系统。
Most of the universities, they have some type of system right now — content measurement system, you would say. That was like 15, 20 years ago, and I taught myself PHP and of course you have to learn HTML and CSS and JavaScript, just a little bit, to do that.
您会说，大多数大学现在都拥有某种类型的系统-内容评估系统。 那就像15年前，即20年前，我自学PHP，当然，您必须学习一点HTML，CSS和JavaScript才能做到这一点。
Then I taught myself Python. Actually, I wrote my first book while still at university, doing my Bachelors. And then a year later, my classmates had to use my textbook to do the labs. They didn’t like that, so … that was a funny story.
然后我自学了Python。 实际上，我还在读大学时就读了我的第一本书，当时是我的学士学位。 然后一年后，我的同学不得不用我的课本来做实验。 他们不喜欢那样，所以……那是一个有趣的故事。
David:
大卫：
-
It’s always intimidating when your classmates have to use the book that you wrote.
当您的同学不得不使用您写的书时，这总是令人生畏。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yeah.
是的
[Laughter]
[笑声]
David:
大卫：
-
That’s one way to establish that alpha position in the class.
这是在班级中建立该字母位置的一种方法。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yeah. Apparently the book got butchered, and there were a lot of typos also, along the way, because there were some editors in the middle I didn’t know about.
是的 显然，这本书很刺耳，一路上也有很多错别字，因为中间有一些我不知道的编辑。
David:
大卫：
-
Was that your first book?
那是你的第一本书吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yes.
是。
David:
大卫：
-
Yeah, you learn about editors along the way.
是的，您一路了解编辑器。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yes.
是。
David:
大卫：
-
Cool. You have a lot of books out now though, don’t you?
凉。 不过，您现在有很多书，不是吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yeah, I said, I think like, 14 or 15, not counting those two books.
是的，我说过，我想是14岁或15岁，不包括这两本书。
David:
大卫：
-
That is amazing, I’m really curious how you juggle your work and your writing career?
太神奇了，我真的很好奇您如何兼顾工作和写作生涯？
Azat:
Azat：
-
I write on weekends, holidays … Sometimes you can write a book in the weekend, in a long weekend. One of my books, it’s called, ProgWriter [programmer + writer]. Basically, I’m sharing my lessons about writing and sharing some of the tools and tactics I used. That I wrote basically on a train from a conference. I took a train from Portland back to San Francisco — to Emeryville, California — and I had one day and one night. I wrote 5000 words. That was the basis. It’s a small book, but still, it’s kind of a book — 80 pages.
我在周末，节假日写东西……有时您可以在一个漫长的周末的周末写书。 我的一本书叫做ProgWriter [程序员+作家] 。 基本上，我正在分享有关编写和共享我使用的一些工具和策略的课程。 我基本上是在会议的火车上写的。 我从波特兰乘火车回到旧金山，再到加利福尼亚的埃默里维尔，一天又一个晚上。 我写了5000字。 那是基础。 这是一本小书，但还是一本书，共有80页。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
You wrote a book, while you were on a train.
您在火车上时写了一本书。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Exactly.
究竟。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
You’re like, I have some time to kill here, let me just write a book real quick. After I just got done speaking at a conference.
您就像，我有一些时间要在这里消磨时间，让我快点真正写一本书。 在会议上我刚讲完之后。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yes, something like that. [Chuckles]
是的，类似的东西。 [笑声]
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
All right, sure. Go on, go on, I’m just going to sit here and not do anything else.
好吧，当然。 继续，继续，我只是要坐在这里，什么也不要做。
Azat [7:10]:
Azat [7:10] ：
-
It’s a scenic train. It’s actually a great way to see the United States and travel. They have those scenic cars, where there is no roof, so basically it’s like glass, so it was pretty epic, and you can meet cool people. I met someone from government from Oregon — from Bend, Oregon — so had an interesting conversation.
这是一列风景优美的火车。 实际上，这是查看美国和旅行的好方法。 他们有那些风景如画的汽车，没有车顶，所以基本上就像玻璃一样，那是史诗般的，可以遇见酷人。 我遇到了俄勒冈州政府的人-俄勒冈州本德市-进行了有趣的对话。
Yeah, but basically what I’m saying is like, if you know what to write about, so obviously I knew how to write books, so I wrote about writing books, right? So, I think if you’re confident and you know what your subject, the actual mechanical process of typing your thoughts out, it’s not that long. Maybe two weeks if you haven’t done it before, a few days if you did. The most of the time is taken up by research, by coding examples if it’s a technical book, by facts if it’s like a historical book or political book. If you can do it during your work — let’s say you’re learning React during your work, or you’re learning … what are the new cool frameworks? … view.js, or you’re learning Elixir at you work, and then you already know how it works, so now you just need to describe, that’s super fast. You just come home, you write a blog post You hve ten blog posts, that’s like one chapter or a couple chapters for the book.
是的，但是基本上，我的意思是，如果您知道该写些什么，那么显然我知道怎么写书，所以我写了关于写书的，对吗？ 因此，我想如果您有信心并且知道您的主题，表达想法的实际机械过程，那不会太久。 如果您之前没有做过，则可能需要两个星期；如果您之前没有做过，则可能需要几天。 大部分时间都用在研究上，如果是技术书则通过编码示例，如果是历史书或政治书则通过事实进行。 如果您可以在工作中做到这一点-假设您在工作中正在学习React，或者正在学习…什么是新的出色框架？ …view.js，或者您在工作时正在学习Elixir，然后您已经知道它的工作原理，因此现在您只需要描述一下，那非常快。 您刚回到家，写了一篇博客文章，您有十篇博客文章，就像本书的一章或几章一样。
So basically, you repackage your thoughts, your experience, your blog posts, you can repackage your conference talk. One of my conference talks is called
You Don’t Know Node.js
. I repackaged it as a blog post, and then I repackaged it as an online course.因此，基本上，您可以重新打包您的想法，经验，博客文章，也可以重新打包会议演讲。 我的会议演讲之一是“
您不知道Node.js”
。 我将其重新打包为博客文章，然后将其重新打包为在线课程。
David:
大卫：
-
And is that one of the courses that’s available through … I think you’re also a part of Node University, right?
那是通过…提供的课程之一吗？我认为您也是Node University的一部分，对吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yeah, that’s right, thank you for mentioning it. Thank you for the free marketing.
是的，是的，谢谢您提到它。 感谢您的免费营销。
Yes, Node University — node.university without the dot com. I started it a few months ago. Right now I have 14 courses. The plan is to create a new course at least every two or three weeks. If anyone wants to know Node.js or React or JavaScript, some courses are free, some courses you pay a little bit, but then eventually, they will also be free.
是的，Node University —不带点com的node.university。 我是几个月前开始的。 现在我有14门课程。 该计划是至少每两到三周开设一门新课程。 如果有人想知道Node.js或React或JavaScript，那么有些课程是免费的，有些课程您需要付费，但是最终，它们也将免费。
David:
大卫：
-
Is that what you’re doing full time these days?
这几天你是在做全职吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
No, full time I work at Capital One.
不，我全职在Capital One工作。
David:
大卫：
-
So you’re working full time at Capital One, and on the side, every couple of weeks, you’re launching another course for this university program.
因此，您在Capital One从事全职工作，并且每隔两周，您将为此大学课程开设另一门课程。
Azat:
Azat：
-
That’s right.
那就对了。
David:
大卫：
-
On top of speaking at conferences and —
除了在会议上发表演讲，而且-
Azat:
Azat：
-
I’m going to do three books this year, at least three books. So I have the contract, I just need to review it and sign with Apress for two books. It’s going to be new editions of my old books, Practical Node.js and Pro Express.js, and then one more book with Manning. But I’m going to keep it a secret for now. But, it’s going to be a good book I think.
我今年要写三本书，至少要写三本书。 因此，我有合同，我只需要对其进行审查并与Apress签订两本书。 这将是我的旧书的新版本， Practical Node.js和Pro Express.js ，然后是Manning的另一本书。 但是，我暂时将其保密。 但是，我认为这将是一本好书。
David:
大卫：
-
I trust that it will be. And Tim, you can shoot me now; my ego is completely dead.
我相信会的。 蒂姆，你现在可以开枪射击我。 我的自我完全死了。
[Laughter]
[笑声]
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Mine too. Sometimes in my spare time, I play video games.
我也是。 有时我会在业余时间玩电子游戏。
But, related to that, what keeps you motivated to continue pushing out work like this, because it seems like your schedule is packed to the brim with either a full time job or a course or a book. How do you wake up every day and look at your schedule and just feel ready to tackle every thing that you need to get done?
但是与此相关的是，让您有动力继续进行这样的工作的原因是，因为您的日程安排似乎充满了全职工作，一门课程或一本书。 您如何每天醒来并查看自己的日程安排，并准备好应对需要完成的每件事？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Speaking of video games, I used to like video games, so I have Xbox and a few video games, but I get the same kind of motivation, the same kind of pleasure … Once you play the video game right, you get that satisfaction. My satisfaction is creating a book. So, okay, I have a book ready, React Quickly. It’s going to be in print in the next few weeks, so now it’s time to think about new books. I get the same kind of pleasure. But then my motivation is like, okay, the video games — other people are not going to benefit from that. I won’t get extra income from that, or get any amazing opportunities like, for example, traveling to a cool city and speaking at a conference — and a conference usually invites me to do that. I get to meet other cool people, whom I saw on YouTube and whose books I read.
说到视频游戏，我以前很喜欢视频游戏，所以我有Xbox和一些视频游戏，但是我得到了相同的动力和乐趣……一旦正确玩了视频游戏，您就会得到满足。 我很满意正在写一本书。 好吧，我已经准备好一本书，React Quickly。 它将在接下来的几周内印刷，因此现在该考虑新书了。 我得到了同样的乐趣。 但是后来我的动机就像是电子游戏一样，其他人不会从中受益。 我不会从中获得任何额外的收入，也不会获得任何令人惊奇的机会，例如，去凉爽的城市旅行并在会议上讲话-会议通常会邀请我这样做。 我结识了其他很酷的人，我在YouTube上见过这些人，并读过他的书。
So yeah, there is like so many more benefits of doing that stuff versus just playing video games, so for me it’s just no brainer. I come home and it’s like,
Okay, so what I’m going to do with my next two hours before going to bed?
I’m like,Oh, I’m going to learn something, write a blog post or work on a new online course.
是的，做这些东西比起玩视频游戏还有更多的好处，所以对我而言，这根本就不算什么。 我回家了，就像，
好吧，那我睡前两个小时该怎么办？
我想，哦，我要学习一些东西，写博客文章或从事新的在线课程。
David:
大卫：
-
That’s remarkable. I don’t think most people out there, who are working in the field, they don’t spend their time, trying to publish information, trying to share all of this. But it seems like sharing information really is core to the way that you approach your career.
太好了 我认为，在现场工作的大多数人都不会在这里花费时间，尝试发布信息，分享所有这些信息。 但是似乎共享信息确实是您职业生涯的核心。
Azat [11:42]:
Azat [11:42] ：
-
Yes, I don’t know where I read it or who influenced me. Maybe, Nathan Berry or one of those self-published authors, who are a little bit in the tech field, a little bit in Design and Web Development. But, yes, I think that there is a tremendous value in sharing. It not only helps your brand, your personal brand, but it also helps other people. And, as I’ve mentioned, if you like it, you can make a little bit of money. When I started really seriously writing on my blog, it helped me first of all — helped me to basically form my thoughts in a more coherent manner, helped me with my rhythm communication and it helped me also to document whatever methods or classes I was using, whatever commands I was using.
是的，我不知道我在哪里读书或谁影响了我。 也许是内森·贝瑞(Nathan Berry)或其中一些在技术领域有点自我出版的作者之一，在设计和Web开发方面也有些经验。 但是，是的，我认为共享具有巨大的价值。 它不仅可以帮助您的品牌和个人品牌，还可以帮助其他人。 而且，正如我所提到的，如果您喜欢它，可以赚点钱。 当我开始真正认真地在博客上写作时，它首先对我有所帮助-帮助我以一种更加连贯的方式基本形成了自己的思想，帮助我进行了节奏交流，还帮助我记录了我正在使用的任何方法或类，无论我使用什么命令。
It’s a great tool, it’s like open-source software, right? Why do people use open-source software? Well, most people — most engineers — want to learn, most people want to contribute to the community. But also, it’s great for becoming a better engineer, because your code is out there and everyone can comment on that. So, same thing with me. You’re not going to master something unless you teach it, right? When you’re there in front of a class of people, of 50 people, and usually they’re very smart and they know a lot, maybe not in this technology, but they know a lot about other things, so they’re going to drill you right? They’re going to ask you questions, so you better come prepared. If you’re giving a talk at a conference, teaching a class, you better come prepared. That’s like an extra motivation. Without that, it’s harder to learn.
这是一个很棒的工具，就像开源软件一样，对吗？ 人们为什么使用开源软件？ 好吧，大多数人-大多数工程师-想学习，大多数人想为社区做贡献。 而且，这对成为一名更好的工程师也很重要，因为您的代码已经存在，每个人都可以对此发表评论。 所以，对我来说也是一样。 除非您教它，否则您不会精通某些东西，对吗？ 当您在一群人(有50个人)的面前时，他们通常非常聪明，他们知道很多，也许不是使用这项技术，但是他们对其他事情了解很多，所以他们会训练你吧？ 他们会问你问题，所以你最好做好准备。 如果您要在会议上发表演讲，讲授课程，则最好做好准备。 这就像一种额外的动力。 没有它，就很难学习。
David:
大卫：
-
So, you’ve done the books, you’ve done the courses, but you’re not done. You’re starting to look into Cybersecurity. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that and how you got interested?
因此，您已经完成了书籍，已经完成了课程，但是还没有完成。 您开始研究网络安全。 您是否想多谈一点以及如何引起兴趣？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yes, Cybersecurity is all over the news, right? We have high profile cases offer this website, Have I been pwned?, where you can enter your email and it will scan the leaked databases. Our life basically, on average, revolves around the Cloud, and you have your password and the data is synchronized. Facebook, Google, Android, iOS, everything right? Life becomes digital, so it’s convenient but at the same time, if that data gets compromised, you’re out of luck.
是的，网络安全无处不在，对吗？ 我们有高知名度的案例提供此网站， 我是否被伪造过？ ，您可以在其中输入您的电子邮件，它将扫描泄漏的数据库。 平均而言，我们的生活基本上围绕云计算，并且您拥有密码并且数据已同步。 Facebook，Google，Android，iOS，一切正常吗？ 生活变成了数字化，所以这很方便，但是同时，如果这些数据受到破坏，那么您就不走运了。
And that’s funny. A few days ago, I was just on the phone with two companies. Both of them, they gave me passwords which is just welcome. So one company gave me password, welcome1, and another company gave me password, Welcome2, with a capital W. For one company, I had to give four digits of my social security number. (If someone is listening and not from the United States, it’s like one number they give you for the rest of your life, so it’s a pretty big deal.) Right now, we have the taxes, and so it’s very easy to get it from mail, because a lot of companies they just mail you in plain text, they mail you those forms and it’s in the post office, totally unprotected. And sometimes USPS even delivers it to the wrong address, so that’s kind of scary.
这很有趣。 几天前，我刚与两家公司通电话。 他们俩都给了我密码，这是受欢迎的。 因此，一家公司给了我密码welcome1，另一家公司给了我密码welcome2，并用大写字母W表示。对于一家公司，我必须输入我的社会保险号的四位数。 (如果有人在听，而不是在美国听，那就像是他们一生中给你的号码，所以这是一个很大的问题。)现在，我们有税，因此很容易就可以得到它通过邮寄，因为许多公司只是以纯文本形式邮寄给您，所以他们以表格形式邮寄给您，并且邮局完全不受保护。 有时，USPS甚至将其发送到错误的地址，因此有点吓人。
Another company, they don’t even ask for that; they will just ask for your email. If anyone knows that I’m a subscriber of that service and I probably post it on social media many, many times that I use that service. It’s a great service but if they know that I use this service and they know my email, which is easy to guess, I’m using obviously Gmail right, like most people. They can just call, get a new password, reset my password, get that welcome and steal all my purchases, so that’s kind of scary and ridiculous.
另一家公司，他们甚至没有要求。 他们只会索要您的电子邮件。 如果有人知道我是该服务的订户，并且我可能会多次，多次将其发布在社交媒体上。 这是一项很棒的服务，但是如果他们知道我使用了此服务并且知道我的电子邮件(这很容易猜到)，那么我和大多数人一样显然使用了正确的Gmail。 他们可以打电话，获取新密码，重设我的密码，获得欢迎并窃取我的所有购买商品，这简直是吓人和荒谬。
David:
大卫：
-
This isn’t even just security from the perspective of development. This is security from the perspective of personal security.
从开发的角度来看，这甚至不仅仅是安全性。 从人身安全的角度来看，这就是安全。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Pure social engineering. It’s everywhere, it’s personal, very personal.
纯社会工程学。 它无处不在，非常私人。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Is this a problem that you’re interested in trying to solve?
您有兴趣解决这个问题吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yes, of course.
当然是。
David:
大卫：
-
What’s the answer?
答案是什么？
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yes, please tell us.
是的，请告诉我们。
Azat:
Azat：
-
The answer, well … I traced the social securities, we already have the technology, it’s called Private Public Key, right? And you can regenerate it as many times as you want, so you’re going to keep your private key and then the companies will keep it private and that’s how they will identify you. Social security can get it only up to three times, and that’s it. You cannot get any new ones, so in terms of social engineering, yeah, it’s a human aspect.
答案很好……我追踪了社会证券，我们已经有了这项技术，称为私有公钥，对吗？ 而且，您可以根据需要重新生成它多次，因此您将保留私钥，然后公司将其保密，这就是他们将如何识别您的身份。 社会保障最多只能获得三倍，仅此而已。 您无法获得任何新产品，因此，就社会工程学而言，这是人的方面。
Oh, another bad example, like websites — this is a more technical example — the website that tells you,
Oh, your password cannot be less than eight characters and more than 12 characters.
But that’s ridiculous, right? You’re eliminating your set of possible combinations right? So you’re making it easier: you’re telling what characters are not allowed. [Chuckles]哦，另一个不好的例子，例如网站，这是一个更具技术性的例子，该网站告诉您，
哦，您的密码不能少于8个字符且不超过12个字符。
但这太荒谬了，对吧？ 您要消除所有可能的组合吗？ 因此，您可以更轻松地进行操作：告诉您不允许使用哪些字符。 [笑声]
David [16:19]:
大卫[16:19] ：
-
Exactly. Just for the listeners who may not be familiar, you used the term
social engineering
a couple of times. Can you explain that, please?究竟。 仅对于可能不熟悉的听众，您曾多次使用“
社会工程学
”一词。 你能解释一下吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yeah, social engineering … A great book, I forgot what it’s called, but it’s about Kevin Mitnick. He was one of the famous hackers in 80s, I think? Right when Apple was becoming a big thing, and I think he’d be a pioneer. But, basically when I was reading his book, like 90% or at least in my perspective, 80 or 90% of his hacks were social engineering. So, what is social engineering?
是的，社会工程学……一本很棒的书，我忘了它的名字，但这是关于凯文·米特尼克的。 我认为他是80年代著名的黑客之一。 就在Apple成为一件大事时，我认为他将成为先锋。 但是，基本上，当我阅读他的书时，就像90％或至少在我看来，他80％或90％的黑客都是社交工程。 那么，什么是社会工程学？
Basically you’re not hacking, you’re not brute forcing your way, you’re not trying to find that password combination or private and public key combination because that’s 256-bit security, right, so that takes a lot of computer power. So you would call a phone representative, like a company contact on a phone; you pretend, you impersonate, you’d get some bits of information. For example, a lot of websites ask what CD you will burn? That information is very easily obtainable on social media, right? Also via phishing attacks: phishing is when someone sends an email and then pretends to be someone else, whom you trust. Also like, con artists / confidence men. Right now I’m reading a book about a confidence artist. They used it for hundreds of years, right? They pretend to be someone, they’re very confident, they usually use someone like higher up the rank, for example they could call you and say,
Oh, it’s the IRS. Could you tell us your social security number, or tell us your bank account number.
基本上，您不是在黑客中，不是在蛮横地强迫自己，也不是在试图找到该密码组合或私钥和公钥组合，因为这是256位安全性，因此需要大量的计算机功能。 因此，您将给电话代表打电话，就像电话中的公司联系人一样； 您假装，冒充您，会得到一些信息。 例如，许多网站都问您将刻录什么CD？ 这些信息很容易在社交媒体上获得，对吗？ 同样通过网络钓鱼攻击：网络钓鱼是指某人发送电子邮件，然后假装成为您信任的其他人。 也喜欢骗子/自信的男人。 现在，我正在读一本关于自信艺术家的书。 他们使用了数百年，对吗？ 他们假装自己，非常有信心，通常使用更高级别的人，例如，他们可以打电话给您，说，
哦，这是IRS。
您能告诉我们您的社会保险号，还是告诉我们您的银行帐号。
Social engineering is basically preying on human trust, because we — especially in the United States — we have a very high trust, and that’s great for doing business because when you trust people, you don’t get afraid. So, everything is moving fast when you trust people. They prey on that trust, and they find vulnerabilities because the systems are not perfect in humans.
社会工程学基本上是依靠人类的信任，因为我们-特别是在美国-拥有很高的信任度，这对开展业务非常有用，因为当您信任别人时，您就不会害怕。 因此，当您信任人时，一切都会快速发展。 他们依靠这种信任，并且发现漏洞，因为这些系统在人类中并不完美。
Another example they did — there is a video somewhere on the internet — they had a recording of a baby crying and the lady on the phone, the social engineer, the hacker, she’s a white hat hacker so she’s breaking the system, in order to show how bad it is, and not to gain some benefit. She was playing that baby recording and she was pretending like, she just had a baby and her husband is somewhere, to kind of get that sympathy.
他们做的另一个例子-互联网上有一个视频-他们录制了一个婴儿哭泣的录音，电话中的那位女士，社会工程师，黑客，她是白帽黑客，所以她破坏了系统，以便展示它有多糟糕，而不是获得一些好处。 她正在播放那个婴儿唱片，并且假装自己就像是在生一个婴儿，而她的丈夫在某处，以此表示同情。
David:
大卫：
-
I can see how that can be very effective, and it’s just one more thing to be scared of in this terrifying modern world that we live in.
我可以看到这是如何非常有效的，在我们生活的这个可怕的现代世界中，这是我们要害怕的另一件事。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yeah.
是的
David:
大卫：
-
I’m curious how that’s going to reflect in the work that you’re working on next.
我很好奇，这将如何反映在您下一步的工作中。
Azat:
Azat：
-
We’ll see. So far it’s very interesting just to know how that whole underground world works, and I didn’t know there is even special service which you can rent to do denial-of-service attacks.
我们拭目以待。 到目前为止，仅了解整个地下世界的工作方式就非常有趣，而且我不知道甚至可以租用特殊服务来进行拒绝服务攻击。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
It’s rentable?
可以租吗？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yeah, it’s rentable, and it’s a better business than to do the DDoS yourself. You just hijack all those bots, like security cameras. For some reason, security cameras actually are good bots — all those Internet of Things devices — and then you rent it to other people. And apparently a lot of Minecraft servers get attacked by competitors, because when you want to play Minecraft, you don’t want the servers to be down so you will switch to another, to a competitor, and that’s how they compete by attacking and DDoSing each other.
是的，它是可出租的，并且比自己进行DDoS更好。 您只需劫持所有这些机器人，例如安全摄像机。 由于某种原因，安全摄像机实际上是好的机器人-所有那些物联网设备-然后您将其出租给其他人。 显然，许多Minecraft服务器都受到竞争对手的攻击，因为当您想玩Minecraft时，您不希望服务器宕机，因此您会切换到另一个服务器，成为竞争对手，这就是它们通过攻击和DDoSing竞争的方式。彼此。
David:
大卫：
-
You see, Tim? Playing video games, you’re right in the middle of all this.
你知道吗，蒂姆？ 在玩视频游戏时，您正处于所有这些中间。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I feel a little bit more productive now I’m helping, right?
我正在帮助我，我的工作效率有所提高，对吗？
David:
大卫：
-
Exactly.
究竟。
So the work that you’ve been doing, one of the things that really impresses me is you’ve been going out and talking at conferences, and I think that that’s part of what a lot of people who are interested in sharing information feel very intimidated by. Could you tell us a little bit about how you got started talking at conferences and giving those presentations?
因此，您一直在做的工作给我留下了深刻的印象，其中之一就是您一直在参加会议并在会议上讲话，我认为这就是很多对共享信息感兴趣的人感到非常高兴的一部分。被吓倒了。 您能否告诉我们一些有关如何开始在会议上进行演讲并进行演示的信息？
Azat [19:56]:
Azat [19:56] ：
-
Yes, speaking at conferences. Conferences are a great part of learning, which should never stop. And especially in our industry, a great way to talk with other people and find out what’s new.
是的，在会议上发言。 会议是学习的重要组成部分，永远都不应停止。 特别是在我们的行业中，这是与他人交谈并了解新事物的好方法。
For me, public speaking was the way to teach, right? So I started my first workshop a few years ago. I called it NodeProgram — kind of play on the program, like a computer program, and the class, on the course. I get to practice a lot of teaching and public speaking. So, when I joined Capital One, one of the job responsibilities was to put Capital One on the radar as a technology company, not just a bank, and attract talent. It became part of my job, and then, as I’ve said, it’s a great way to learn myself, about all the cool trends and hang out with people.
对我来说，公开演讲是教学的方式，对吗？ 因此，几年前，我开始了我的第一个工作坊。 我称它为NodeProgram ，它是一种在程序上的玩法，就像计算机程序一样，在课程上也可以上课。 我可以练习很多教学和公开演讲。 因此，当我加入Capital One时，工作职责之一就是将Capital One作为一家技术公司而不只是一家银行而广为关注，并吸引人才。 这成为了我工作的一部分，然后，正如我所说的，这是一种学习自我，了解所有流行趋势并与人们进行交流的好方法。
To expand on your question, people get intimidated: that’s true, obviously, as I’ve said. You have a lot of smart people in the room, they might ask you questions, so you really need to know your subject well, and the delivery must be good as well, because if someone gives bad body signals and is just reading from slides, hiding behind the computer, even if the content is really good, that delivery would diminish the effectiveness and it will be hard to comprehend that content. For someone who wants to jump a few steps in the career ladder, conferences are also good for the personal brand. In my book 5 Hacks to Getting the Job of Your Dreams, one of the hacks is actually speaking at a conference.
为了扩展您的问题，人们会被吓到：诚然，正如我所说，这是事实。 您的房间里有很多聪明的人，他们可能会问您问题，因此您确实需要很好地了解您的主题，并且传送的内容也必须很好，因为如果有人发出不良的身体信号并且只是从幻灯片上阅读，即使内容真的很好，它也会隐藏在计算机后面，这样会降低有效性，并且很难理解该内容。 对于想要在职业阶梯上迈出几步的人来说，召开会议对于个人品牌也是有益的。 在我的《 5个获得梦想的黑客》一书中，其中一个黑客实际上是在会议上讲话。
David:
大卫：
-
That’s where I read it.
那是我读的书。
Azat:
Azat：
-
It’s a great way to travel as well. I spoke at 17 conferences last year.
这也是旅行的好方法。 我去年在17个会议上发表讲话。
David:
大卫：
-
Being that you’ve managed to accomplish so much, write so many books and articles and courses and all that, do you have books you read or mentors that helped you along the way or people that you look to? Because I can’t imagine that you just woke up one day and were immediately super productive at every thing that you tried. So I’m curious, what are the methods that you use to be able to accomplish all of these things?
既然您已经成功完成了许多工作，撰写了许多书籍，文章和课程，以及所有这些，那么您是否拥有阅读的书籍或指导者或您所寻找的人的帮助者？ 因为我无法想象您会在一天之内醒来，并且在尝试过的每件事上都会立即变得高效。 所以我很好奇，您使用什么方法来完成所有这些事情？
Azat:
Azat：
-
Yes, speaking of books, I like reading and listening. Through the past three years, I’ve read or listened to 200 books. That’s my mentors, that’s where I get the inspiration, the motivation — both strategic and tactical.
是的，谈到书，我喜欢阅读和听。 在过去的三年中，我已经阅读或听过200本书。 那是我的导师，这是我从中获得灵感，激发动力的地方–无论是战略上还是战术上。
If you want some concrete examples, I have five top picks. Antifragile is a really interesting book about randomness and how we don’t really know what is happening and we’re just looking in the hindsight.
如果您想要一些具体的例子，我有五个最佳选择。 《反脆弱》是一本非常有趣的书，它讲述了随机性以及我们如何真正不知道发生了什么，而我们只是事后回顾。
Deep Work, I believe everyone in software engineering should read that book. It’s by Cal Newport. He is a Computer Science professor at Georgetown University. So, basically, it tells that there’s shallow work and deep work, and if you want to provide really good value to your company, society, to other people, and benefit yourself, you should focus on deep work, not on posting on your Instagram food and tweeting every second. That’s all shallow work, answering email is also shallow work. Most of the people can do shallow work, but the deep work, that’s what’s valuable, that’s what’s rare.
Deep Work ，我相信软件工程中的每个人都应该读这本书。 是卡尔·纽波特(Cal Newport)的作品。 他是乔治敦大学的计算机科学教授。 因此，从根本上说，这表明工作有深度，有深度，如果您想为公司，社会，其他人提供真正好的价值，并使自己受益，则应该专注于深度工作，而不是在Instagram上发布食物和每秒发推文。 这些都是肤浅的工作，回复电子邮件也是肤浅的工作。 大多数人都可以从事浅层工作，但是深层工作才是有价值的，这是罕见的。
The Next 100 Years, a really, really great book. Probably half of it’s not going to happen, but it’s interesting to hear those perspectives. So basically it’s predicting the future and some of the trends.
未来100年 ，一本非常非常好的书。 大概一半不会发生，但是听到这些观点很有趣。 因此，基本上，它可以预测未来和某些趋势。
Sam Walton: Made in America. I tend to like autobiographies more, because they’re mostly cheerful. When you read a biography, you tend to get like black and white. You get to hear both perspectives, and that kind of skews the whole narrative. If you drink the Kool-Aid, just drink everything right?
Sam Walton：美国制造 。 我倾向于更喜欢自传，因为它们大多是愉快的。 当您读传记时，您倾向于变得黑白相间。 您会听到这两种观点，并且整个叙述都歪曲了。 如果您喝库尔援助，那就喝一切都对吗？
Grain Brain: it’s about the diet, about how wheat and gluten could damage your brain. And being a software engineer, and being developers, the brain, that’s number one, our asset.
谷物大脑 ：与饮食有关，与小麦和面筋如何损害大脑有关。 作为软件工程师，成为开发人员，即大脑，这是我们的第一资产。
David:
大卫：
-
Wow. So now I have a reading list. Absolutely.
哇。 所以现在我有一个阅读清单。 绝对。
Listen, Azat, I’m sure that a lot of our listeners are going to want to find out more about your courses, about your information, and get in touch with you too. How can people find you online?
听着，阿扎特(Azat)，我敢肯定，我们的许多听众都想了解更多关于您的课程，您的信息，并与您取得联系。 人们如何在网上找到您？
Azat [24:08]:
Azat [24:08] ：
-
Azat.co, without the M, so just Azat.co, C-O. That’s my personal website with all the links, so please connect with me on LinkedIn, follow me on Twitter, other social media, and Node University, so it’s Node — N-O-D-E.university without the dot com. I also got js.university but it will redirect to node.university, so that’s for online courses, if people prefer video format. For the written format, for my blog post, it’s webapplog so, W-E-B-A-P-P-L-O-G, so it’s like webapplog.com.
Azat.co ，不带M，所以只有Azat.co，CO。那是我所有链接的个人网站，因此请在LinkedIn上与我联系，在Twitter ，其他社交媒体和Node University上关注我，因此是Node。没有点com的NODE.university。 我也有js.university，但是它将重定向到node.university，所以如果人们喜欢视频格式，那将用于在线课程。 对于书面格式，对于我的博客文章，它是webapplog，所以是WEBAPPLOG，所以就像webapplog.com 。
David:
大卫：
-
Okay, we’ve given people a lot of things to look at.
好的，我们给了人们很多东西要看。
Thank you so much for joining us. I’m sure people are going to be wanting to go out and read all of that stuff.
非常感谢您加入我们。 我确定人们会想出去阅读所有这些东西。
Azat:
Azat：
-
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
谢谢。 感谢您的款待。
-
I’m excited to tell you about a new sponsor of the show, Rollbar.
很高兴告诉您有关该节目的新赞助商Rollbar的信息 。
One of the frustrating things we all deal with is errors …
我们所有人都面临的令人沮丧的事情之一就是错误……
Relying on users to report errors, digging through log files trying to debug issues … With Rollbar’s error monitoring, you get the full stack trace, context, and user data to help you find and fix impactful errors super fast.
依靠用户报告错误，浏览日志文件以尝试调试问题…通过Rollbar的错误监视，您可以获得完整的堆栈跟踪，上下文和用户数据，以帮助您快速找到并修复有影响的错误。
You can integrate Rollbar into your existing workflow; send error alerts to Slack or Hipchat; or, automatically create new issues in JIRA, Pivotal Tracker or Trello.
您可以将Rollbar集成到现有工作流程中； 向Slack或Hipchat发送错误警报； 或者，在JIRA，Pivotal Tracker或Trello中自动创建新问题。
Adding the Rollbar’s SDK is as easy as copy and paste. Start tracking and logging application errors in minutes.
添加Rollbar的SDK与复制和粘贴一样容易。 在几分钟内开始跟踪和记录应用程序错误。
We have a special offer for listeners. Go to rollbar.com/versioning, sign up, and get the Bootstrap Plan free.
我们为听众提供特别优惠。 转到rollbar.com/versioning ，注册并免费获得Bootstrap Plan。
Loved by developers at awesome companies like Heroku, Twilio, Kayak, Zendesk, Twitch and more.
受到Heroku，Twilio，Kayak，Zendesk，Twitch等出色公司的开发人员的喜爱。
Give Rollbar a try a today. Go to rollbar.com/versioning.
今天就试试Rollbar。 前往rollbar.com/versioning 。
-
It’s not very often we interview a super genius on the Versioning Show, but it seems that accidentally, we have. I say
accidentally
, because David and I would never intentionally schedule a super genius because that makes David and I look like not super geniuses. But in case you’re worried, we’re definitely super geniuses, you can trust everything we say.我们不是经常在Versioning Show上采访超级天才，但似乎偶然地，我们有了。 我
偶然地
说，因为大卫和我永远不会故意安排一个超级天才，因为这使大卫和我看起来像不是超级天才。 但是，如果您担心，我们绝对是超级天才，您可以相信我们所说的一切。
David:
大卫：
-
And if you doubt us, you can read the 17 books that we’ve published this year, and all of the 25 conference talks that we’ve presented. Oh, wait a minute — that was Azat, not us.
如果您怀疑我们，可以阅读我们今年出版的17本书以及我们介绍的所有25场会议演讲。 哦，等等，那是Azat，不是我们。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
That was Azat.
那是阿扎特。
Yeah, can we just talk about that for a second. That was incredible, and I do feel a little bit bad, just a little bit. He is definitely a content powerhouse. It’s really amazing to see. First off, I’ve never written a book on a train. I’ve written a blog post on a train, it was very difficult and hard to concentrate so that’s pretty impressive.
是的，我们可以再谈一谈。 那太不可思议了，我确实感到有些难过，只有一点点。 他绝对是一个内容强国。 看到真是太神奇了。 首先，我从未在火车上写过书。 我在火车上写了一篇博客文章，这很困难而且很难集中精力，这给人留下了深刻的印象。
David:
大卫：
-
I have written a book, and it took me months, and it took forever to get published, and I can’t imagine the idea of writing one on a weekend.
我写了一本书，花了我几个月的时间，并且花了永远的时间才出版，我无法想象在周末写一本书的想法。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah. I declined a book deal, because of that very imagination. So … I haven’t even gotten to the writing portion. I was just like,
Uh, no, I’m too busy. Thank you.
That’s as far as I’ve gotten in the book writing process. Maybe I’ll get a little bit further one day, but …是的 由于这种想像力，我拒绝了一笔交易。 所以……我什至还没写文章。 我就像，
呃，不，我太忙了。
谢谢。
就我在本书写作过程中所做的为止。 也许有一天我会再说一点，但是...
David:
大卫：
-
But Azat seems so calm and so happy.
但是阿扎特人似乎是如此的平静和快乐。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah, that’s the thing I was really admiring about him, is that he doesn’t take on all of this work because he feels that he has to and as a result, gets overwhelmed by it. He said he feels the same satisfaction that he does, the same enjoyment that he does, when he’s like playing a video game on his Xbox 360. I have to admit, I don’t often feel that same joy. To me, it seems like what he was saying was that, the work he does is his form of relaxation for him. He gets the same joy and satisfaction when he does those sorts of things. It really does seem to recharge his batteries, which is incredible. Because I — and I think you do too, as well, David — I look at those things most of the time as work. Sometimes it’s fun, and sometimes you enjoy it, but most of the time, it’s something that you do and then you say,
Ah, I need a break,
and your break doesn’t include writing another blog post.是的，那是我真正欣赏他的事情，因为他没有承担所有工作，因为他觉得自己必须这样做，结果不知所措。 他说，当他喜欢在Xbox 360上玩视频游戏时，他会感到与自己相同的满足感，与他一样的享受。我不得不承认，我并不总是感到同样的喜悦。 在我看来，他在说的是，他所做的工作是他对自己的放松形式。 当他做这些事情时，他会得到同样的喜悦和满足。 确实确实可以给他的电池充电，这是不可思议的。 因为我-我想您也是如此，大卫-我大多数时候都把这些事情看作工作。 有时它很有趣，有时您喜欢它，但是在大多数情况下，都是您要做的事情，然后您说，
啊，我需要休息一下，
您的休息时间不包括撰写另一篇博客文章。
David [28:04]:
大卫[28:04] ：
-
It’s interesting, because there are a couple of things you can be talking about here. One of the issues is the question of, is it public work or is it private work? And is it like this thing that you’re going to put out there in front of the world — which I personally find very stressful — or is it something that you’re diving in too deeply and you’re spending hours and hours at the computer working on? Like a project that you’re developing, there’s some code on a website that you’re working on. I personally find that second one very refreshing, but I find it stressful when I know that what I’m writing or what I’m saying or what I’m recording is going to be going out into the world, and that’s the sort of thing that I always feel like I need to recover from. It’s amazing to see somebody who finds that life affirming and self supporting.
这很有趣，因为您可以在此处谈论几件事。 问题之一是公共工作还是私人工作？ 就像是您要摆在世界前的那件事-我个人觉得非常有压力-还是您潜入的深度太深，并且在这里花了数小时的时间电脑在工作吗？ Like a project that you're developing, there's some code on a website that you're working on. I personally find that second one very refreshing, but I find it stressful when I know that what I'm writing or what I'm saying or what I'm recording is going to be going out into the world, and that's the sort of thing that I always feel like I need to recover from. It's amazing to see somebody who finds that life affirming and self supporting.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
But in the same right, I think that’s a good character quality that you have, because, to be honest, I’m way too self aggrandizing to be worried about the content that I’m putting in front of everybody else. My main thought is,
O my goodness, everyone’s going to benefit from this and I’m going to be famous. I can’t wait to put it in the public domain.
And that never happens; nobody says this is amazing, and they shouldn’t, because most of it is garbage anyways. But, I think that’s a good thing that you have when you look at something and you think,I really want people to benefit from this,
and as a result of that, I’m a little bit stressed in the process. I think that’s a good thing to have.But in the same right, I think that's a good character quality that you have, because, to be honest, I'm way too self aggrandizing to be worried about the content that I'm putting in front of everybody else. My main thought is,
O my goodness, everyone's going to benefit from this and I'm going to be famous. I can't wait to put it in the public domain.
And that never happens; nobody says this is amazing, and they shouldn't, because most of it is garbage anyways. But, I think that's a good thing that you have when you look at something and you think,I really want people to benefit from this,
and as a result of that, I'm a little bit stressed in the process. I think that's a good thing to have.
David:
大卫：
-
No, the things that you put out, Tim, are not garbage. I’ve read some of your work. Let’s be honest. I mean, we can be sarcastic or we can be self deprecating. Azat is putting out good stuff, you’re putting out good stuff, I think I’m putting out good stuff. But —
No, the things that you put out, Tim, are not garbage. I've read some of your work. 说实话。 I mean, we can be sarcastic or we can be self deprecating. Azat is putting out good stuff, you're putting out good stuff, I think I'm putting out good stuff. But —
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
You definitely are.
You definitely are.
David:
大卫：
-
Thank you. But, it’s a question of that motivation that you asked him about. Where do you find your energy? What gives you the source of the energy to keep on moving forward in doing this. Personally, I find it so much more comfortable to be working for hours and hours and hours on a project that’s just sitting on my computer and it’s just local and I don’t have to think about what it’s going to interface with the real world. I just think about the problems that I’m trying to solve and the project, the structure of the task that I have in hand. That kind of work, I find very self supporting, but when I start working on something that I know is going to be out there in public, if I’m presenting a talk for a conference or if I’m putting together a presentation or a class or a blog post, anything like that, I get stressed about the fact that there is going to be somebody out there responding to it.
谢谢。 But, it's a question of that motivation that you asked him about. Where do you find your energy? What gives you the source of the energy to keep on moving forward in doing this. Personally, I find it so much more comfortable to be working for hours and hours and hours on a project that's just sitting on my computer and it's just local and I don't have to think about what it's going to interface with the real world. I just think about the problems that I'm trying to solve and the project, the structure of the task that I have in hand. That kind of work, I find very self supporting, but when I start working on something that I know is going to be out there in public, if I'm presenting a talk for a conference or if I'm putting together a presentation or a class or a blog post, anything like that, I get stressed about the fact that there is going to be somebody out there responding to it.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah, I understand that. I think deadlines definitely do that for me. When I know that, all right, here’s the thing, and whether it’s a self-imposed deadline or it’s a deadline coming from somewhere else, mostly there’s a deadline on the table. Then it becomes stressful for me, and not stressful in the sense that I’m tripping over myself and sweating as I type. But, stressful in the sense that it’s in the back of my head and it’s something that’s poking me in the back of the neck saying,
You need to get this done
.是的，我明白。 I think deadlines definitely do that for me. When I know that, all right, here's the thing, and whether it's a self-imposed deadline or it's a deadline coming from somewhere else, mostly there's a deadline on the table. Then it becomes stressful for me, and not stressful in the sense that I'm tripping over myself and sweating as I type. But, stressful in the sense that it's in the back of my head and it's something that's poking me in the back of the neck saying,
You need to get this done
.But I was thinking when I was listening to Azat talk about all of the work that he does. I was thinking that, he gets joy from doing all of this work. This is clearly something that he’s intensely passionate about and just really loves to just continually produce books and learn and read. And if that’s not you — and that’s definitely not me, I like to be lazy a lot. Not necessarily a lot, but I do like to go to work and then come home; I’ll do a little bit of studying and then I’ll kind of relax, and that’s okay. If you don’t get passionate about constantly putting out hundreds of words and audio clips and conference talks … if that’s not you, I don’t think you should ever feel that you have to become that.
But I was thinking when I was listening to Azat talk about all of the work that he does. I was thinking that, he gets joy from doing all of this work. This is clearly something that he's intensely passionate about and just really loves to just continually produce books and learn and read. And if that's not you — and that's definitely not me, I like to be lazy a lot. Not necessarily a lot, but I do like to go to work and then come home; I'll do a little bit of studying and then I'll kind of relax, and that's okay. If you don't get passionate about constantly putting out hundreds of words and audio clips and conference talks … if that's not you, I don't think you should ever feel that you have to become that.
Of course, it’s okay to get motivated and say,
Wow, this person is doing a lot of great, great work for the open source community. I, too want to contribute.
Sure, but don’t feel like you have to compete with the amount of work that anybody else is doing, especially when that stuff mostly goes towards helping other people for free.Of course, it's okay to get motivated and say,
Wow, this person is doing a lot of great, great work for the open source community. I, too want to contribute.
Sure, but don't feel like you have to compete with the amount of work that anybody else is doing, especially when that stuff mostly goes towards helping other people for free.
David [31:50]:
David [31:50] :
-
It’s absolutely true, it’s not a competition. And we all have our own career paths, and I think that it’s something that Azat would agree with. He talks about finding your own career paths and being successful and hacking your own career. One of the things that he — I don’t know if he says it specifically — he talks about the conferences that he’s presented at, and I was asking him how he got started with that, and he said he got started by doing presentations on behalf of his company. Which is a really interesting thing, because it means that you don’t have to go off and independently carve your path in order to become somebody who has a public image and a reputation. He took the job that he had in the company he was working for, he stayed there as a full time employee, working for that company, and at the same time, while supporting his job and while supporting the business, went out and built a name for himself by taking advantage of the opportunity he had as an employee, to represent his employer.
It's absolutely true, it's not a competition. And we all have our own career paths, and I think that it's something that Azat would agree with. He talks about finding your own career paths and being successful and hacking your own career. One of the things that he — I don't know if he says it specifically — he talks about the conferences that he's presented at, and I was asking him how he got started with that, and he said he got started by doing presentations on behalf of his company. Which is a really interesting thing, because it means that you don't have to go off and independently carve your path in order to become somebody who has a public image and a reputation. He took the job that he had in the company he was working for, he stayed there as a full time employee, working for that company, and at the same time, while supporting his job and while supporting the business, went out and built a name for himself by taking advantage of the opportunity he had as an employee, to represent his employer.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah, it sounds really like a web evangelist kind of role, and I think that is a genius way to get started. I know for me, one of the things that really quelled my fear of public speaking was speaking at company events, because it’s a little bit smaller and a little bit more intimate of a setting, and you know all the people that you’re talking to. So it gets a little bit easier to go up there and speak when you know that,
All right, I’ve done this before. What’s the worst that can happen, really?
Yeah, it sounds really like a web evangelist kind of role, and I think that is a genius way to get started. I know for me, one of the things that really quelled my fear of public speaking was speaking at company events, because it's a little bit smaller and a little bit more intimate of a setting, and you know all the people that you're talking to. So it gets a little bit easier to go up there and speak when you know that,
All right, I've done this before. What's the worst that can happen, really?
David:
大卫：
-
One of the things that worked for me was, I started posting meetup groups, just small groups of people with a shared interest, and it was an interest that I had. I started with people who were reading books about JavaScript, and I just had them gather and talk about those books that they’ve been reading. And ideally, we’d all read the same book, and we’d have something to talk about. And I used to try to get the authors to come and talk at these events as well.
One of the things that worked for me was, I started posting meetup groups, just small groups of people with a shared interest, and it was an interest that I had. I started with people who were reading books about JavaScript, and I just had them gather and talk about those books that they've been reading. And ideally, we'd all read the same book, and we'd have something to talk about. And I used to try to get the authors to come and talk at these events as well.
It was fun, and it was a small community, and out here in San Francisco, there are basically you just have to walk out the door and whistle and you’ll run into a friend and engineer, so there were a lot of JavaScript folks around. But, another meetup group that I started was for photographers, because I’m also interested in photography, and we have a San Francisco photography meetup group that gets together and does photo crawls in the city, and I’m hosting these things. It’s an opportunity to put myself in the position of being the host and get some practice with talking in front of a group. But it’s a group of people who have a shared interest and have come together because they want to do the same things that I want to do.
It was fun, and it was a small community, and out here in San Francisco, there are basically you just have to walk out the door and whistle and you'll run into a friend and engineer, so there were a lot of JavaScript folks around. But, another meetup group that I started was for photographers, because I'm also interested in photography, and we have a San Francisco photography meetup group that gets together and does photo crawls in the city, and I'm hosting these things. It's an opportunity to put myself in the position of being the host and get some practice with talking in front of a group. But it's a group of people who have a shared interest and have come together because they want to do the same things that I want to do.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
You know what I’m thinking? I have an idea for another episode. We should talk to a public speaking professional.
You know what I'm thinking? I have an idea for another episode. We should talk to a public speaking professional.
David:
大卫：
-
Interesting, interesting.
Interesting, interesting.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Right? Yeah, we can get tips on how to not look like idiots in front of large groups of people, which I could use a couple, maybe like one or two of those tips, and just generally be a better speaker. Because the thing that I’ve found is, I learned the most when I speak about something to other people. At least in preparing the talk, I learn about — do I really know this topic that I’m speaking about? You learn to get up in front of people and present an idea which you really need to know fully, or at least a decent amount about, in order to deliver a talk, and then you learn how to take questions from people about said thing, and how to deliver coherent responses. I mean, it’s a learning experience for you as much as it is for the people that you are presenting to, so speaking is good. We should all do it if we have the chance. And, yeah, getting some professional tips, I think would be a good resource for our listeners.
对？ Yeah, we can get tips on how to not look like idiots in front of large groups of people, which I could use a couple, maybe like one or two of those tips, and just generally be a better speaker. Because the thing that I've found is, I learned the most when I speak about something to other people. At least in preparing the talk, I learn about — do I really know this topic that I'm speaking about? You learn to get up in front of people and present an idea which you really need to know fully, or at least a decent amount about, in order to deliver a talk, and then you learn how to take questions from people about said thing, and how to deliver coherent responses. I mean, it's a learning experience for you as much as it is for the people that you are presenting to, so speaking is good. We should all do it if we have the chance. And, yeah, getting some professional tips, I think would be a good resource for our listeners.
David:
大卫：
-
And it’s an opportunity to explore topics that you’re curious about, too. If you look at Azat’s career, and you see the things that he said he was passionate about, and the things that he was publishing books about, they match up. And now he’s talking about learning React, and at the same time, he’s writing books about React, and that’s probably part of how he’s learning it.
And it's an opportunity to explore topics that you're curious about, too. If you look at Azat's career, and you see the things that he said he was passionate about, and the things that he was publishing books about, they match up. And now he's talking about learning React, and at the same time, he's writing books about React, and that's probably part of how he's learning it.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
That’s something I noticed when we were talking to him. It seems like his method is to get curious about something and then go immediately to step of, all right, I’m going to either publish a blog post, write a talk or a book about this thing. And, well, you have to know the thing to be able to do that, so you just get started. That’s really a genius way to go about both learning something and helping others learn something.
That's something I noticed when we were talking to him. It seems like his method is to get curious about something and then go immediately to step of, all right, I'm going to either publish a blog post, write a talk or a book about this thing. And, well, you have to know the thing to be able to do that, so you just get started. That's really a genius way to go about both learning something and helping others learn something.
David:
大卫：
-
Yeah, I came away from that interview really inspired, and I have at least four books I need to read. I’m already grain free, so I don’t need to read the fifth one.
Yeah, I came away from that interview really inspired, and I have at least four books I need to read. I'm already grain free, so I don't need to read the fifth one.
Tim [35:56]:
Tim [35:56] :
-
Oh, you’re grain free.
Oh, you're grain free.
David:
大卫：
-
I am, indeed.
I am, indeed.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I’m nearly grain free. I eat about 80 to 100 grams of carbohydrates a day — mostly coming from vegetables, but a little bit from pasta with lunch. But, yeah so I’m close. But not quite there. I don’t think I can give it up, David, I’m not strong enough.
I'm nearly grain free. I eat about 80 to 100 grams of carbohydrates a day — mostly coming from vegetables, but a little bit from pasta with lunch. But, yeah so I'm close. But not quite there. I don't think I can give it up, David, I'm not strong enough.
David:
大卫：
-
I find that if I have any carbs at all in my diet, I have all carbs in my diet. If I don’t cut them out completely, my appetite just takes over, so I cut them out completely and then I don’t even miss them.
I find that if I have any carbs at all in my diet, I have all carbs in my diet. If I don't cut them out completely, my appetite just takes over, so I cut them out completely and then I don't even miss them.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
You’re very strong. That’s what we’ve learned today, everybody. David is very strong for not eating any carbs. Send him a congratulatory tweet or a support email. Just let him know that you’re rooting for him.
You're very strong. That's what we've learned today, everybody. David is very strong for not eating any carbs. Send him a congratulatory tweet or a support email. Just let him know that you're rooting for him.
David:
大卫：
-
But don’t send me any donuts.
But don't send me any donuts.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
No, no donuts. Unless they’re Paleo, made with almond flour, because that’s a thing.
No, no donuts. Unless they're Paleo, made with almond flour, because that's a thing.
David:
大卫：
-
Almond flour? I baked almond flour bread today.
Almond flour? I baked almond flour bread today.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Wow, okay, so … apparently the goal is to make me feel demoralized. You are baking bread, Azat is doing everything else. I just sat on my couch and worked from home, because it was snowing, So, thanks.
Wow, okay, so … apparently the goal is to make me feel demoralized. You are baking bread, Azat is doing everything else. I just sat on my couch and worked from home, because it was snowing, So, thanks.
David:
大卫：
-
That’s all right, Tim. We love you anyway.
That's all right, Tim. We love you anyway.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Well, thank you so much for listening everybody. We always enjoy getting to talk technology with all of you.
Well, thank you so much for listening everybody. We always enjoy getting to talk technology with all of you.
We would also like to thank SitePoint.com, and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat, with production help from Ralph Mason. Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @VersioningShow — and give us a rating on iTunes to let us know how we’re doing.
We would also like to thank SitePoint.com , and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat, with production help from Ralph Mason. Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @VersioningShow — and give us a rating on iTunes to let us know how we're doing.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
We’ll see you next time, and we hope you enjoyed this version.
We'll see you next time, and we hope you enjoyed this version.
The Versioning Show is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace helps creative people stand out. With an all-in-one platform that lets you create a beautiful website without worrying about limitations, designer templates, and a simple interface, Squarespace is the best way to make your next move.
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使用Squarespace，您可以运行的不仅仅是一个投资组合网站。 您可以在Squarespace上运行在线商店，其中包含详细的分析，域注册，G Suite集成以及可帮助您扩展业务的工具。
Squarespace have a special offer for listeners of the Versioning Show. Try out their service for free. Then, when you decide to subscribe, use offer code SitePoint
to get 10% off your first website or domains purchase.
Squarespace为Versioning Show的听众提供特别优惠。 免费试用他们的服务。 然后，当您决定订阅时，请使用商品代码SitePoint
来获得首次购买网站或域名的10％的折扣。
Go to SitePoint.com/squarespace to get started.
转到SitePoint.com/squarespace开始。
David: 大卫：
David: 大卫：
Tim: 蒂姆：
翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/online-security-and-being-super-productive-with-azat-mardan/
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