Episode 33 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week, Kevin Yank (@sentience) asks attendees of Web Directions South 2009 what has them excited, and sits down with three fellows from Opera: Chris Mills (@millsofsteel), Lachlan Hunt (@lachy), and Daniel Davis (@ourmaninjapan). A complete transcript of the interviews is provided below.
SitePoint Podcast的 第33集现已发布！ 本周，凯文·扬克( @sentience )向Web Directions South 2009的参加者询问了他们的兴奋之处，并与来自Opera的三名研究员坐在一起： 克里斯·米尔斯 ( @millsofsteel )，拉克兰·亨特( @lachy )和丹尼尔·戴维斯( @ourmaninjapan) )。 下面提供了采访的完整笔录。
下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #33: Team Opera at WDS09(MP3, 14.7MB)SitePoint Podcast＃33：WDS09上的Team Opera(MP3，14.7MB)
面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)
Kevin: October 23rd, 2009. On today’s show, a collection of interviews recorded at Web Directions South 2009 in Sydney. This is the SitePoint Podcast #33: Team Opera at WDS09.
凯文： 2009年10月23日。在今天的表演中，采访集录于2009年悉尼南站网络指南。 这是WDS09上的SitePoint播客＃33：团队歌剧。
Kevin: This is Kevin Yank for the SitePoint Podcast. I’m at Web Directions South 2009 in Sydney, and I thought I’d talk to a few of the attendees to see what they’re excited about.
凯文：这是SitePoint播客的凯文·扬克。 我现在在悉尼的Web Directions South 2009上，我想我会和一些与会人员交谈，以了解他们的兴奋之处。
Male 1: The old microformats stuff finally starting to tick … maps going mainstream.
男性1：旧的微格式内容终于开始流行起来……地图成为主流。
Kevin: So location-aware stuff actually becoming useful.
凯文：所以位置感知的东西实际上变得有用。
Male 1: Yeah.
男1：是的
Kevin: Yeah, cool.
凯文：是的，很酷。
Male 2: I’m on a big location-aware binge at the moment, but it’s really nice how everything is sort of starting to get beyond it’s own little individual applications and everything is tying in together.
男2：我现在正处于位置感知的狂潮中，但是，一切都开始超越自己的小个人应用程序，并且一切都捆绑在一起，真是太好了。
Male 3: Yeah, I’m really quite excited about just the mainstreaming of the social web, you know, and how Twitter has just really taken off. I’m also quite excited about the implications of the mobile web and what that means about being able to serve applications on a small device, like an iPhone. So that pretty much is exciting me at the moment.
男3：是的，我对社交网站的主流化以及Twitter如何真正起飞感到非常兴奋。 我也对移动网络的含义以及对能够在iPhone等小型设备上提供服务的意义感到非常兴奋。 因此，这让我很兴奋。
Kevin: Alright. Have you picked your favorite talk that you’re planning to not miss so far?
凯文：好吧。 您是否选择了自己最喜欢的谈话，而您计划到目前为止不会错过？
Male 3: Cameron Adams, always Cameron Adams.
男3：卡梅隆·亚当斯(Cameron Adams)，永远是卡梅隆·亚当斯(Cameron Adams)。
Kevin: Cameron Adams … Google Wave!
凯文：卡梅隆·亚当斯… Google Wave ！
Male 3: Yep.
男3：是的
Kevin: Alright. Well, I’ll be sure to catch up with him. Thanks guys.
凯文：好吧。 好吧，我一定会赶上他的。 多谢你们。
Kevin: So what are you excited about?
凯文：那你兴奋什么？
Male 4: Adobe announced two days ago that they would have an export function for Flash to iPhone applications, so this sounds really cool because as of now, I’m not able to write iPhone applications, but I know how to write Flash. So it’s like just because of that announcement, I could write iPhone applications.
男4： Adobe于两天前宣布，他们将具有Flash到iPhone应用程序的导出功能，所以这听起来真的很酷，因为到目前为止，我无法编写iPhone应用程序，但我知道如何编写Flash。 就像是因为那个宣布，我可以编写iPhone应用程序。
Kevin: Yeah, that’s something Ben Galbraith mentioned in his talk as well. He talked about a framework that let you export from JavaScript to an iPhone application.
凯文：是的，本·加尔布雷思在讲话中也提到了这一点。 他谈到了一个框架，该框架可让您从JavaScript导出到iPhone应用程序。
Male 4: The phone gap.
男4：电话差距。
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, PhoneGap.
凯文：是的，是PhoneGap 。
Male 4: That’s what I’m suggesting as well, I haven’t heard of it before.
男4：这也是我的建议，我之前从未听说过。
Kevin: Yeah, so the ability to take the Web to these platforms that would be closed otherwise.
凯文：是的，因此将Web带到这些平台的能力将会被关闭。
Male 4: Yes, and the ability that I, as a web developer, are able to write real applications.
男4：是的，作为Web开发人员，我有能力编写真实的应用程序。
Kevin: What are you excited about?
凯文：你兴奋什么？
Male 5: RDFa.
男5： RDFa。
Kevin: Alright, tell us what that is.
凯文：好的，告诉我们那是什么。
Male 5: It’s something that excites me. I’m really excited. [laughter] So we could go around in circles.
男5：这使我兴奋。 我很激动。 [笑声]所以我们可以绕圈转。
Kevin: What’s exciting about it?
凯文：令人兴奋的是什么？
Male 5: I’ll be serious. It’s a number of things. It allows you to make the information that you publish more precise, or allows machines to interpret the information that you publish. So often, we have web pages that contain a lot of useful content, like addresses or book reviews, or whatever. Humans can interpret that very easily; you look at the page, you can read it. By marking it up more precisely with RDFa, we can help search engines, we can help applications, we can help user interfaces to deal with the information more precisely.
男5：我会认真的。 有很多事情。 它使您可以使发布的信息更加精确，或者使机器可以解释发布的信息。 很多时候，我们的网页包含很多有用的内容，例如地址或书评等。 人类可以很容易地解释这一点。 您看一下页面，就可以阅读它。 通过使用RDFa对其进行更精确的标记，我们可以帮助搜索引擎，我们可以帮助应用程序，可以帮助用户界面更精确地处理信息。
Kevin: Alright, so the million dollar question – do you think RDFa is going to get more traction than microformats?
凯文：好了，那么百万美元的问题–您认为RDFa会比微格式更具吸引力吗？
Male 5: I would say in many ways, it already has. If you look at things like Google’s recent announcement to process RDFa that marks up licensing information about images or formatting information about videos, there is a new initiative called GoodRelations, which is a complete vocabulary that allows you to mark up products for sale, opening hours of shops, you know, all this kind of thing – all uses RDFa and Yahoo! are processing map format and Google looks like they will, as well.
男5：我已经说了很多。 如果您查看Google最近发布的处理RDFa的信息，这些信息标记了有关图像的许可信息或有关视频的格式信息，那么有一个名为GoodRelations的新计划，它是一个完整的词汇表，可让您在营业时间，营业时间标记产品您知道，所有这类商店都使用RDFa和Yahoo! 正在处理地图格式，而Google看起来也是如此。
I think microformat is a very different thing though, and I think – I hope – that some of the things that people have done with microformats is going to move over into the RDFa world. Microformats is a great way of saying to people look, here’s a set of terms, if you use these terms, there will be a benefit, and I think that’s, in some ways, what RDFa needs to do. Here’s the syntax, fine; but here’s a bunch of terms that if you mark – like Google have said about a review – if you use these terms to mark up a review, we can do something clever with it.
我认为微格式是完全不同的事情，并且我希望–人们希望人们使用微格式所做的某些事情将进入RDFa世界。 微格式是一种很好的表达方式，它是一系列术语，如果使用这些术语，将会有好处，我认为这是RDFa需要做的事情。 这是语法，很好； 但是，如果您标记了一些术语(例如Google所说的评论)，则使用这些术语标记评论，我们可以做一些聪明的事情。
Kevin: Thank you.
凯文：谢谢。
Kevin: Guys, James Beatie, what are you excited about on the web at the moment?
凯文：伙计们，詹姆斯·比蒂，您现在在网络上兴奋什么？
James: The canvas element. I just think it’s an interesting progression of the Web, you know, being able to do all this graphical stuff with markup and in the browser rather than pre-making and pre-compiling image files and graphics files.
詹姆斯：画布元素。 我只是认为这是Web的有趣发展，能够用标记和在浏览器中完成所有这些图形工作，而不是预先制作和预编译图像文件和图形文件。
Kevin: Yeah, have you played with it much, or is it something you’re looking forward to?
凯文：是的，您玩了很多吗？还是您期待它？
James: No, I’ve seen demos of it, but I’m hoping today I’ll get enough to be able to then start working on it myself.
詹姆斯：不，我看过它的演示，但是我希望今天我能有足够的能力自己开始研究它。
Kevin: Great. It’s incredible. Guys?
凯文：太好了。 太不可思议了 伙计们？
Male 6: Probably IE9.
男6：大概是IE9。
Kevin: IE9.
凯文： IE9。
Male 6: Oh yeah, I’m forward thinking. [laughter]
男6：哦，是的，我很想。 [笑声]
Kevin: I haven’t heard anything about IE9!
凯文：我还没听说过IE9！
Male 6: No, well, not many people have but that’s what I’m excited about.
男6：不，嗯，没有多少人，但这就是我很兴奋的地方。
Kevin: Did you go over to the Microsoft booth and get the inside track?
凯文：您是否去了微软的展位并获得了成功？
Male 6: I don’t want to talk to those guys just yet. [laughter]
男6：我还不想和那些家伙说话。 [笑声]
Kevin: This is Kevin Yank at Web Directions South 2009 in Sydney for the SitePoint Podcast. I’m here with Lachlan Hunt, Chris Mills and Daniel Davis, all joining us from the Opera Developer Relations Team, is that right guys?
凯文(Kevin)：我是2009年悉尼Web Directions South上的SitePoint Podcast的凯文·扬克(Kevin Yank)。 我在这里与Lachlan Hunt，克里斯·米尔斯和丹尼尔·戴维斯在一起，都是来自Opera开发者关系团队的人，对吗？
Lachlan: Not quite, I’m in Core, but they send me along anyway.
Lachlan：不太清楚，我在Core中，但是无论如何他们都会派我来。
Kevin: Core. What’s Core?
凯文：核心。 核心是什么？
Lachlan: This is the core technology, like on the actual rendering engine in the browser and JavaScript engine and stuff like that.
Lachlan：这是核心技术，就像在浏览器和JavaScript引擎中的实际渲染引擎上一样。
Kevin: Alright, and Lachlan Hunt, you do a lot of standards work, you work on the HTML5 working group and that sort of stuff.
凯文：好吧，和拉克兰·亨特(Lachlan Hunt)，您做了很多标准工作，在HTML5工作组中工作，诸如此类。
Lachlan: Yeah, I do HTML5 and I’m in the Web Apps working group group, I work on the Selectors API…
Lachlan：是的，我使用HTML5，并且在Web Apps工作组中，我在使用Selectors API。
Kevin: Alright, and Chris and Daniel, is your focus the same, or is there something different between your two focuses?
凯文：好吧，克里斯和丹尼尔，您的关注点是否相同，或者您的两个关注点之间是否有所不同？
Chris: So the difference in focus really, Daniel and I are both in the Developer Relations Team. I hate to use the word marketing, but we kind of do marketing but specifically aimed at developers and people who actually know what we’re talking about. So we form a feedback loop and a bridge, really, between the ultra-technical guys at Opera and the developers and end users. It’s mainly to develop a focus, but we talk a lot to end users as well. It’s important to keep that going and to help people to learn how to use our new technologies as much as possible but also focus on open web standards, which is a very big part of our remit.
克里斯：所以重点确实不同，我和Daniel都在开发人员关系团队中。 我讨厌使用市场营销这个词，但是我们有点做市场营销，但是专门针对那些真正了解我们在说什么的开发人员和人们。 因此，实际上，Opera的超技术人员与开发人员和最终用户之间形成了反馈回路和桥梁。 主要是为了确定重点，但我们也与最终用户进行了很多交谈。 重要的是要保持这种状态并帮助人们尽可能地学习如何使用我们的新技术，同时还要专注于开放式Web标准，这是我们职权范围的很大一部分。
Daniel: Doing this is a growing trend as well, because we’ve just increased our developer relations team rapidly over the past year and Palm now have got a sort of fledgling developer relations team. So I think we’re seeing more of this sort of non-marketing; it’s indirect marketing where we’re not promoting use— Well, we are saying “use Opera”, but we’re doing it in a way whereby if you build on standards, if you build for the Open Web, then indirectly, you’re benefiting Opera, as well as benefiting the web world at large.
丹尼尔(Daniel)：这样做也是一个增长的趋势，因为在过去的一年中我们刚刚Swift增加了我们的开发人员关系团队，而Palm现在有了一个刚起步的开发人员关系团队。 因此，我认为我们看到了更多此类非营销活动； 这是间接的营销，我们不是在推广使用-好吧， 我们说“使用Opera”，但我们正在做的方式，由此，如果你建立的标准，如果你建立了开放的Web，然后间接地，您”重新造福Opera，并造福整个网络世界。
Kevin: Okay, so that’s what I’m really interested in talking about is Opera’s choice to approach the developer community so directly. I mean you don’t really see that as much from the other browser vendors. Firefox is kind of – these days, it’s a bit of a browser by developers for developers, so they are around a fair bit if only because the people building the browser tend to be web developers themselves. But, you know, you don’t see… you could accuse Apple and Microsoft of being quite quiet on the developer scene; when they have stuff to say, it’s usually because they have a new browser just out that they want you to take a look at and the other three years of the development cycle, they’re pretty silent. Whereas Opera, you guys, this is at least the second year that you’ve had a significant contingent at this conference – this great conference – but it’s a little conference in Sydney, really.
凯文：好的，所以我真正感兴趣的是Opera选择直接与开发者社区联系的选择。 我的意思是，您从其他浏览器供应商那里看不到那么多东西。 Firefox是–如今，对于开发人员来说，它有点像是开发人员的浏览器，因此，仅因为构建浏览器的人往往是Web开发人员本身，所以它们就在相当不错的水平。 但是，您知道，您没有看到……您可能会指责Apple和Microsoft在开发人员领域相当安静。 当他们有话要说时，通常是因为他们刚想出一个新的浏览器来让您看看，而在开发周期的其他三年中，他们却保持沉默。 你们，歌剧至少是第二年参加本次会议，这是一次伟大的会议，但这确实是在悉尼举行的一次小型会议。
So why is it such a priority for Opera to communicate with developers?
那么，为什么Opera与开发人员进行交流如此优先呢？
Chris: It’s because really I think the developers are the most important kind of audience to look at getting into using our browser. And like a lot of the other browser vendors who have all started to release decent developer tools, you know—obviously you have Firebug started that trend off, but all of us are looking to go down that path now as well and all of us are starting to form these – well, most of us, there is a couple that aren’t – but most of us are starting to do these strong developer relations teams that are teaching people how to use the standards and teaching people how to employ better practices in their development, for example. As well as just the kind of the standard developer relations stuff, ee also do a lot of in terms of education. As well as high level and articles, tutorials, and talks at conferences on advanced development techniques and future standards, such as canvas and the other HTML5 stuff and CSS3, we’re also going back to basics and producing things like the Opera Web Standards curriculum that helps students and hobbyists, anybody that wants to just get into doing web development properly to start off on the right foot, as well.
克里斯：这是因为我真的认为开发人员是考虑使用我们的浏览器的最重要的受众。 就像许多其他浏览器供应商都已开始发布不错的开发人员工具一样，您知道-显然您已经使Firebug摆脱了这种趋势，但我们所有人现在也都希望沿着这一道路前进，我们所有人开始形成这些-好吧，我们大多数人中，有很多人不是-但是我们大多数人都开始建立这些强大的开发人员关系团队，这些团队正在教人们如何使用标准并教人们如何采用更好的实践例如，在他们的发展中。 除了标准的开发人员关系之类的东西外，ee在教育方面也做很多事情。 以及高级会议上有关高级开发技术和未来标准(例如canvas和其他HTML5内容以及CSS3)的高水平文章，教程和讲座，我们还将回到基础知识并制作类似Opera Web Standards课程的内容可以帮助学生和业余爱好者，也就是那些只想正确地进行网络开发以从右脚入手的人。
There is a hell of a lot of work to do and we’re almost trying to do a kind of cover-all approach really.
有很多工作要做，我们几乎实际上正在尝试采取一种全面的方法。
Lachlan: We need developers to understand that we’re there to help them. We want them to test their web sites in Opera and make sure they use standards and stuff. That’s why we’re focused on the curriculum as he said.
Lachlan：我们需要开发人员了解我们在这里为他们提供帮助。 我们希望他们在Opera中测试他们的网站，并确保他们使用标准和内容。 这就是为什么我们专注于他所说的课程。
Kevin: Daniel, I hear you’re the man in Japan. So are you all on your own there, or does Opera have a presence in Japan besides yourself?
凯文：丹尼尔，我听说你是日本人。 那么，是你们自己一个人在那里吗，还是Opera除了自己之外在日本也有业务？
Daniel: Yeah, we have about nearly 50 people, I think, in the Tokyo office now, which is bigger than a lot of people expect, but then we have big contract with Nintendo, we supply the browser for the Wii and the DSi, and also for internal telephone companies, KDDI is a big one. So we have a lot of engineers who take what Lachlan’s team do and then customize it and personalize it for the Japanese partners.
丹尼尔：是的，我想现在在东京办公室大约有50个人，这个人数比很多人期望的还要大，但是后来我们与任天堂签了大合同，我们为Wii和DSi提供了浏览器，对于内部电话公司来说，KDDI是一个很大的公司。 因此，我们有很多工程师接管Lachlan的团队，然后对其进行自定义并将其个性化，以供日本合作伙伴使用。
Kevin: Especially a lot of the SitePoint audience is in North America and in North America, Opera continues to be a very niche browser but in the European market, we hear that Opera has a much bigger presence. How is Opera in Asia?
凯文：特别是SitePoint的受众很多是在北美，在北美，Opera仍然是非常利基的浏览器，但是在欧洲市场，我们听说Opera的市场份额更大。 歌剧在亚洲如何？
Lachlan: We’re huge in Russia. Massive market there.
拉克兰：我们在俄罗斯非常庞大。 那里有庞大的市场。
Daniel: Yes, it depends on which parts of Russia – I’m sorry, which parts of Asia, just like it depends on which parts of Europe. Russia and Eastern Europe are very big. And in Asia, Vietnam, Indonesia, we’re very, very big. In Japan, unfortunately, not so but that’s my job now to increase that.
丹尼尔：是的，这取决于俄罗斯的哪个地区–对不起，亚洲的哪个地区，就像它取决于欧洲的哪个地区一样。 俄罗斯和东欧很大。 在亚洲，越南，印度尼西亚，我们非常大。 不幸的是，在日本并不是这样，但这是我现在要增加的工作。
Kevin: The Opera browser on Wii used to be a paid product and it just became free, is that right?
凯文： Wii上的Opera浏览器曾经是一种付费产品，并且现在变得免费了，对吗？
Daniel: That’s correct, yes. It used to be 500 points, but they’ve made it free, I think, from this month, they’re going to pay back people who have paid 500 credits in the form of giving them a free game worth 500 credits.
丹尼尔：是的，是的。 以前是500点，但他们已经免费提供了，我想从这个月开始，他们将以提供500点积分的免费游戏的形式偿还已支付500点积分的人。
Kevin: Oh geez, I’ve gotta get my 500 free credits back then.
凯文：天哪，我得拿回我的500个免费积分。
Speaking of reaching the developers, Lachlan, I used to know you as a standards geek who would never, never choose one browser over another, never pledge allegiance to one browser or another because it would ruin your credibility in the standards community. You’ve thrown in with Opera – what got you over that line? Was it this engagement with the developer community?
说到与开发人员接触，Lachlan，我曾经以标准极客的身份认识到您，他们永远不会，永远不会选择一个浏览器而不是另一个浏览器，永远不会效忠某个浏览器或其他浏览器，因为这会破坏您在标准社区中的信誉。 您对Opera充满了兴趣-是什么让您无法胜任？ 与开发者社区的这种接触吗？
Lachlan: Well, yes, it’s their involvements with standards, which was my major reason for going there. I was involved with HTML5 before I went there, and I was working with a lot of the Opera team on that and then I was looking for a job, and they said come and work for us. So I did that, I’m still doing what I like to do and I’m still very vendor neutral when it comes to developing websites for standards and stuff. I work with Opera because of what they’re interested in.
Lachlan：好的，是的，这是他们参与标准的原因，这是我去那里的主要原因。 在去那里之前，我参与了HTML5的开发，当时我与许多Opera团队一起工作，然后我正在寻找工作，他们说来为我们工作。 所以我做到了，我仍然在做自己想做的事，在开发标准和相关内容的网站时，我仍然非常不依赖供应商。 因为他们感兴趣，所以我与Opera一起工作。
Kevin: Right, and Opera understands that about you.
凯文：是的，歌剧了解您的情况。
Lachlan: Uh yes.
拉克兰：嗯。
Kevin: [laughter] That’s good to hear. Opera 10 obviously is out, but you guys are already talking about what’s coming next in your rendering engine. Clearly, you guys are thinking at least a version ahead. What are some of the things that developers can be looking forward to?
凯文： [笑声]很高兴听到。 Opera 10显然已经发布了，但是你们已经在谈论渲染引擎中的下一步。 显然，你们正在考虑至少一个版本。 开发人员可以期待什么？
Chris: We’re aiming to, you know, keep competitive and keep up with a lot of the stuff that the other browsers are doing, so we’ve got the CSS3 features, such as box-shadow and Transitions and Transforms and all of this stuff is being worked on, if not already, in at least a public released version. It was interesting to hear Ben Galbraith from formerly Mozilla, now with Palm, talk a few times this week about future things, such as really fast JavaScript engines, like in Opera, we’ve got Carakan coming out relatively soon. He actually gave an amazing amount of plugs for Opera in his talks, it was very noble of him. But then again, you know, like a lot of the people in Opera, he’s another guy that really just cares about open standards more than anything else.
克里斯：我们的目标是保持竞争力，并跟上其他浏览器正在做的事情，因此我们拥有CSS3功能，例如box-shadow和Transitions and Transforms，以及所有其他功能这些资料(至少尚未公开)正在进行处理。 很高兴听到以前来自Mozilla的Ben Galbraith(现在与Palm一起)在本周几次谈论未来的事情，例如像JavaScript中一样的快速JavaScript引擎(在Opera中)，Carakan很快就会问世。 实际上，他在演讲中给Opera带来了惊人的插件，这对他来说非常高贵。 但是话又说回来，您知道，就像Opera中的许多人一样，他是另一个真正关心开放标准的人。
Going back to a previous point actually, I think it’s absolutely right of Lachy to talk about, kind of vendor neutrality almost, because it’s a much more convincing story to give to people that we’re supporting open standards, rather than just trying to say “support Opera”. It’s like a lot of the “open the web” activities that we do, which basically involves going around to companies and saying well you know, you’ve got this kind of stupid browser sniffing stuff that really sucks because it makes your browser not work in Opera and Safari usually, but sometimes it’s Opera, Safari, and Firefox – it’s sort of the really bad old IE-only sniffing stuff. But it’s not just about getting into support Opera, it’s about getting into support standards properly. At the end of the day, that rings true with at least all of the developers at conferences like these. But of course, we’re also trying to get into the minds and hearts of these more kind of – how do I describe it – Stuart Langridge once called them “dark matter developers” – these guys that are just, you know, don’t come to the conferences and they’re just sort of toiling away in dark rooms and don’t have to bother to do standards properly. But I think there’s conferences for those guys as well, the “Future of…” conferences seem to have a lot of those kind of guys there. It’s interesting to start reaching into some of their heads as well.
实际上，回到之前的观点，我认为Lachy绝对是可以讨论的，几乎是卖方中立的，因为这是一个令人信服的故事，可以告诉人们我们正在支持开放标准，而不仅仅是说“支持Opera”。 这就像我们进行的许多“打开网络”活动一样，基本上涉及到公司走动并说，您知道，您有这种愚蠢的浏览器嗅探功能确实很烂，因为它会使您的浏览器无法正常工作通常在Opera和Safari中使用，但有时在Opera，Safari和Firefox中使用–这是一种非常糟糕的仅适用于IE的古老嗅探工具。 但这不只是要获得对Opera的支持，还在于正确地获得支持标准。 归根结底，至少在这样的会议上，至少所有开发人员都同意这一点。 但是，当然，我们也正在尝试深入了解这些人的思想和内心–我如何形容–斯图尔特·朗里奇曾经称他们为“暗物质开发人员” –这些家伙只是，你知道，不要来参加会议，他们只是在暗室里辛苦劳作，而不必费心去正确地制定标准。 但是我认为也有针对这些人的会议，“……未来”会议似乎也有很多这类人。 也开始触及他们的某些头脑很有趣。
Kevin: Alright, well thank you for taking the time guys.
凯文：好的，非常感谢您抽出宝贵的时间。
Chris: Thanks for having us, Kevin.
克里斯：谢谢你让我们，凯文。
Kevin: And thanks for listening to the SitePoint Podcast. If you have any thoughts or questions about today’s interview, please do get in touch.
凯文：感谢您收听SitePoint播客。 如果您对今天的采访有任何想法或疑问，请保持联系。
You can find SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, and you can find me on Twitter @sentience.
你可以在Twitter上找到SitePoint @sitepointdotcom ，你可以找到我的Twitter @sentience 。
Visit sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. We’ll be back next week with another news and commentary show with our usual panel of experts.
访问sitepoint.com/podcast对该节目发表评论并订阅以自动接收每个节目。 下周我们将与我们通常的专家小组一起再次发布新闻和评论节目。
The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I’m Kevin Yank. Bye for now!
SitePoint播客由Carl Longnecker制作，我叫Kevin Yank。 暂时再见！
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
谢谢收听！ 欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。
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