In this episode of the Versioning Show, David and Tim are joined by Hampton Catlin, creator of Sass, Haml and other tools and services such as Wikipedia Mobile, Tritium and Moovweb. They discuss being inventive, being first, being vulnerable, and being yourself, as well as electric razors, mohawks, saying sorry to cows, and keeping it weird.
在本次Versioning Show中，David和Tim和Sass，Haml以及其他工具和服务(如Wikipedia Mobile，Trutium和Moovweb)的创建者Hampton Catlin一起加入了会议。 他们讨论发明，先行，易受伤害和成为自己，以及电动剃须刀，莫霍克人，对奶牛说声对不起并保持怪异。
显示笔记 (Show Notes)
Hampton on Twitter: @hcatlin
推特上的汉普顿： @hcatlin
Hampton’s website
汉普顿的网站
Hampton’s We Have a Microphone podcast
汉普顿的我们有麦克风播客
Sorry, Cow archives on Wayback Machine
抱歉， Wayback Machine上的Cow档案
Tim’s project restaurantmenubuilder.com. (GitHub repo: RestaurantMenuGenerator)
蒂姆(Tim)的项目restaurantmenubuilder.com 。 (GitHub仓库： RestaurantMenuGenerator )
David’s Transconceive Project
大卫的构思
Say hello on Twitter: @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom
在Twitter上问好： @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom
对话重点 (Conversation Highlights)
I have this habit of I’ll get kind of obsessed with a subject, or I’ll get a mission going in my head, and then I’ll kind of dive into a whole area.
我有这样的习惯：我会沉迷于某个主题，或者我会在脑海中进行任务，然后我会潜入整个领域。
I walk in being the one knowing the least, which is awesome, because that means I get to learn a lot and know a bunch of random crap that I didn’t know before.
我是最不了解的人，这太棒了，因为这意味着我可以学习很多知识，并且知道一堆我以前不认识的胡扯。
open source software lives beyond you. It even lives beyond the company. I love that it’s out of your control once it’s out there. Especially with MIT licenses: I feel like I can do whatever with it. Just take it, go, it’s yours. That just really makes me feel like what I’m doing matters, even if nobody ends up using it. But the cool part about open source is somebody will always end up using it.
开源软件超越了您。 它甚至超越了公司。 我爱，一旦它出现在您的控制之下。 特别是获得MIT许可证：我觉得我可以做任何事。 随身携带，走，这是你的。 即使没有人最终使用它，这也确实使我感到自己在做事情很重要。 但是关于开源的最酷的部分是，人们总是会最终使用它。
The person who invented the electric razor, their name is in a book. They didn’t totally disappear by doing something that they gave back to technology and to society. It’s just this thing that wasn’t there before and now it’s there. They will live on with this thing. It’s like a form of immortality …
发明电动剃须刀的人，他们的名字在书上。 他们所做的一些还给技术和社会的事情并没有完全消失。 只是这个东西以前不存在，现在它在那里。 他们将继续坚持下去。 就像不朽的形式……
I can’t stop being in the shower in the morning and just thinking about what I’m going to build, what should I build, what’s needed, what are people thinking? How can I make it better? It’s like a compulsion to make things.
我不能停止早上洗个澡，只是想着我要建造什么，我应该建造什么，需要什么，人们在想什么？ 我该如何做得更好？ 这就像制造事物的强迫。
Each of these, it’s because they’re weird. It’s not because I worked hard. It’s because I was first.
每一个都是因为它们很奇怪。 不是因为我努力 因为我是第一位。
I know how imperfect I am, and I just want people to know that they’re OK. That’s really important to me.
我知道自己有多完美，我只想让人们知道他们还可以。 这对我来说真的很重要。
If you have an idea and you’re surprised it doesn’t exist, build it if you have the time. I mean, some people don’t have the time or whatever, families, life, disease …
如果您有一个主意，但感到惊讶的是它不存在，请在有时间的情况下进行构建。 我的意思是，有些人没有时间或其他任何事情，包括家庭，生活，疾病……
成绩单 (Transcript)
-
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Hey, what’s up, everybody. This is Tim Evko …
嘿，大家好。 这是Tim Evko…
David:
大卫：
-
… and this is M. David Green …
…这是大卫·格林(M. David Green)…
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
… and you’re listening to episode number 18 of the Versioning Podcast.
…，您正在收听Versioning Podcast的第18集。
David:
大卫：
-
This is a place where we get together to discuss the industry of the web, from development to design, with some of the people making it happen today and planning where it’s headed in the next version.
在这里，我们可以聚在一起讨论从开发到设计的网络行业，其中一些人将其付诸实践，并计划下一版的发展方向。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Today we have with us Hampton Catlin, who has done a number of incredible and exciting things for our industry. That includes being the inventor of Sass, and an HTML processing language called Haml. So we’re going to talk about some of the contributions that he’s made to this industry, as well as some other exciting things. So let’s go ahead and get this version started.
今天，我们与我们在一起，汉普顿·卡特林(Hampton Catlin)为我们的行业做了许多令人难以置信的令人兴奋的事情。 其中包括Sass的发明者和一种称为HamlHTML处理语言。 因此，我们将讨论他为该行业做出的一些贡献以及其他令人兴奋的事情。 因此，让我们开始安装该版本。
David:
大卫：
-
Hey, Hampton, good to see you again. How are you doing today?
嘿，汉普顿，很高兴再次见到你。 今天过得好吗？
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
I’m doing all right. By the way, I’ll point out, you forgot to mention Wikipedia Mobile. Come on, my resume’s way longer than that.
我没事 顺便说一句，我会指出，您忘记提及Wikipedia Mobile了 。 来吧，我的简历比这更长。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I didn’t know about that one.
我不知道那一个。
David:
大卫：
-
I think there were a few things that he might not have mentioned, like Wordset for example.
我认为他可能没有提到一些事情，例如Wordset 。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
It would be like a 20-minute intro to list all the things that you’ve done, so I just scooped off the top two.
列出您已完成的所有操作大概需要20分钟，因此我只是从前两个中挑选了一个。
[Chuckles]
[笑声]
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah, I do a lot of different things all the time. I definitely have trouble staying doing one thing. I joke that I’m a nerd about everything. I’m one of those people who dives into a subject, but I tend to dive in and then only get the top points, and then have some opinion about it, rather than people who actually know stuff. You should probably be interviewing them, because I tend to go in and …
是的，我一直都在做很多不同的事情。 我绝对很难做一件事。 我开玩笑说我对所有事情都很书呆子。 我是那些潜入主题的人之一，但是我倾向于潜入然后只获得最高分，然后对此有一些看法，而不是真正了解知识的人。 您可能应该在采访他们，因为我倾向于进去……
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Maybe you can introduce us to them afterwards.
也许以后您可以向我们介绍他们。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah, there’s so many people. But you know, I have this habit of I’ll get kind of obsessed with a subject, or I’ll get a mission going in my head, and then I’ll kind of dive into a whole area.
是的，人太多了。 但是，您知道，我有这样的习惯：我会沉迷于某个主题，或者我会先执行任务，然后再深入到整个领域。
David:
大卫：
-
In that case, this should be an interesting question for you, because we usually start our show with a philosophical question for our guests, and our philosophical question for you is: in your career, what version are you, and why?
在这种情况下，这对您来说应该是一个有趣的问题，因为我们通常从对客人的哲学问题开始我们的演出，而我们对您的哲学问题是：在您的职业生涯中，您是哪个版本，为什么？
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
What version am I right now?
我现在是哪个版本？
David:
大卫：
-
Yep, this is the Versioning Show, and we’re curious what version you are and how you came to that.
是的，这是Versioning Show，我们很好奇您是什么版本以及您是如何实现的。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah, that’s funny. Right now I am kind of on the restarting phase. The company I’m working for is very small, and we are still stealth, so I can’t give any specifics. Whomp, whomp. It’s in finance stuff, and I’m writing Java code all day. We’re so small that there’s no structure. We’re all just coding, because there’s a lot to do.
是的，这很有趣。 现在，我有点处于重启阶段。 我正在工作的公司很小，而且我们仍然隐身，所以我无法提供任何细节。 mp ，,。 这是财务方面的东西，我整天都在写Java代码。 我们是如此之小，以至于没有结构。 我们都只是编码，因为还有很多事情要做。
I’m kind of starting off. It’s basically like I just started in a new industry, so I have to start again. I walk in being the one knowing the least, which is awesome, because that means I get to learn a lot and know a bunch of random crap that I didn’t know before.
我有点开始。 基本上就像我刚开始从事新行业一样，所以我必须重新开始。 我是最不了解的人，这太棒了，因为这意味着我可以学习很多知识，并且知道一堆我以前不认识的胡扯。
David:
大卫：
-
I love that. You’re resetting yourself from version zero again.
我喜欢那个。 您将再次从零版本重置自己。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Let’s go with two or three. I mean, my gosh, I’ve had a long and strange life from a small religious upbringing in the Deep South to living all around the world. I feel like I’m version infinity. When me and my husband first got married, one of the things we promised each other was that we would never stop changing together. That was the goal, never to stop pushing ourselves or doing something scary or interesting. It would’ve been pretty easy for me after Sass or anything like that to get a job being the lead Sass evangelist for Google, or something, and then get paid a lot. It’d probably be a nice life, but that’s just not what I’m into.
让我们一起谈谈两三个。 我的意思是，我的天哪，我度过了一段漫长而又奇怪的生活，从在南方深处的一次小宗教成长到全世界的生活。 我觉得我是无限版。 当我和我的丈夫第一次结婚时，我们彼此保证的一件事就是我们永远不会停止一起改变。 那是目标，永远不要停止自我推销或做一些令人恐惧或有趣的事情。 在使用Sass或类似的工具之后，对我来说，要成为Google的Sass首席布道者或类似的工作，然后获得高薪，对我来说非常容易。 这可能是美好的生活，但是那不是我所追求的。
David:
大卫：
-
Sass is popular enough that I’m even sure that it needs an evangelist.
Sass非常受欢迎，我什至可以确定它需要传教士。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
I’m sure they’d give some title like Chief Innovation Engineer or something. I’m sure I could get some sort of like … I don’t know.
我相信他们会给他们像首席创新工程师这样的头衔。 我敢肯定，我会得到某种类似的……我不知道。
David:
大卫：
-
Probably. Well, I think one of the things a lot of people are going to be wondering about, though, is going back to when Sass came up. I’m curious, how did that come to you? How did you create something like that?
大概。 好吧，我认为许多人想知道的事情之一可以追溯到Sass出现时。 我很好奇，那是怎么来的？ 您如何创建类似的东西？
Hampton [3:54]:
汉普顿[3:54] ：
-
I got my first job in technology when I was about 23 — or something like that — after having had a long spat of doing odd jobs. In the early 2000s, if you didn’t have a degree in computer science, it was a little hard to get a job in computers — or if you had nothing in your resume. So dropping out of college did not end up getting me a high paying job quickly, so I kind of did a bunch of odd jobs.
在长时间从事零工工作之后，我在23岁左右(或类似年龄)获得了第一份技术工作。 在2000年代初，如果您没有计算机科学学位，那么很难在计算机上找到一份工作-或者您的简历中没有任何内容。 因此，辍学并没有很快让我获得高薪工作，所以我做了很多零工。
Then I got a job working for kind of a small consulting firm, and they gave me a chance. Pretty quickly there I was doing all right, and it seemed like it was the right career for me. I was working with these guys, especially this guy Anthony Watts, who’s a designer in Toronto. I would watch him write his CSS, and I was writing mostly Ruby back then, and he would write it like … I don’t know how long people have been doing this, but before Sass, the way a lot of the best CSS engineers — each file, you would flatten the CSS line, so every rule was on one line.
然后我找到了一家小型咨询公司的工作，他们给了我机会。 很快我就在这里做得很好，这似乎对我来说是正确的职业。 我曾与这些人合作，尤其是与多伦多设计师安东尼·沃茨(Anthony Watts)在一起。 我会看着他写他CSS，那时我主要是在编写Ruby，而他会这样写……我不知道人们从事这项工作已经有多长时间了，但是在Sass之前，很多最好CSS工程师都采用这种方式—每个文件都将使CSS行变平，因此每个规则都在一行上。
You’d type
.main-page .button .red. It would all be one line, and then you’d put all the rules to the right. You’d just have columns of the same word going straight down the page. It would be like —您将输入
.main-page .button .red。 全部都是一行，然后将所有规则放到右边。 您只需要在页面上直接插入相同单词的列即可。 就像-.main-page … .main-page … .main-page …— and it was nuts. I would see them. We would say,
Oh, we reorganized a page,
and he would get a very sad look in his face, and he would have to go and manually go into each file and change each selector by hand that was repeated forever and ever. So find and replace all over.-真是疯了。 我会看到他们的。 我们可以说，
哦，我们重新组织了页面，
他的脸色非常难过，他将不得不手动进入每个文件，并手动更改每个选择器，直到永远重复一次。 因此，查找并替换所有内容。Yeah, so I was working with this guy, and he was so … He was the one of the first people I ever met who was really into his CSS. This was his thing. I had already come up with Haml while at that job, and introduced that. Then Sass was kind of — I saw him doing this, so I thought,
Hey, I already made one language. Why not do another, and we’ll make it so you could nest.
That was the original idea. Then as soon as he said,Oh, we’re going to pre-process it
… which, by the way, there was no … I mean, it’s the first web pre-processor.是的，所以我当时正在和这个人一起工作，他是如此……他是我见过的第一个真正加入CSS的人之一。 这是他的事。 在从事这项工作时，我已经想出了Haml，并进行了介绍。 然后Sass有点-我看到他这样做了，所以我想，
嘿，我已经讲了一种语言。
为什么不做另一个，我们会做到的，以便您可以嵌套。
那是最初的想法。 然后他一说，哦，我们要对其进行预处理
……顺便说一句，没有……我的意思是，这是第一个Web预处理器。I remember when I first designed it, I spent most of my time not explaining how Sass worked itself, but explaining what a pre-processor, was because they were like,
O, it’s dynamic.
I’m like,No, no, no, it’s not really dynamic. You compile it.
They’re like,What do you mean? Can I change colors on the fly with a query parameter?
You’re like,It’s not dynamic.
I’m getting pretty technical I’m realizing.我记得当我第一次设计它时，我花了大部分时间不是在解释Sass的工作原理，而是在解释预处理器，是因为它们就像
是动态的。
我想，不，不，不，它不是动态的。
您编译它。
他们就像，你是什么意思？
我可以使用查询参数即时更改颜色吗？
您就像，它不是动态的。
我正在意识到自己的技术水平。Anyhow, for this guy I was working with, who was a real professional, I felt like his tools really stunk. So I convinced Natalie Weizenbaum, who’s a better programmer than me; we hung out with San Diego at RailsConf, and I pitched her on the idea. I kind of started the project, and then she jumped in and built it, and has continued to build it. There’s the story.
无论如何，对于与我一起工作的那个真正的专业人士来说，我觉得他的工具确实很烂。 因此，我说服了Natalie Weizenbaum ，他是比我更好的程序员。 我们在RailsConf上和圣地亚哥闲逛 ，我向她推荐了这个想法。 我有点开始了这个项目，然后她跳进去建造了它，并继续建造它。 有故事。
I feel all these things for me always come from … there’s always one friend for each thing I’ve done who impacted me, and was the person I was building it for. My friend Melissa was Wikipedia Mobile. I felt that she was complaining that she couldn’t view Wikipedia on her phone, so I built that. It ended up being official later. I ended up getting a job with them.
我觉得所有这些东西对我来说总是来自……我做的每件事总是有一个朋友，影响了我，也是我为之努力的人。 我的朋友梅利莎(Melissa)是Wikipedia Mobile。 我感到她在抱怨无法在手机上查看Wikipedia，所以我建立了它。 后来才正式成为官方。 我最终得到了他们的一份工作。
Haml was because I was working with a team that wanted better structured data. Wordset was because I made a dictionary for myself, and then realized we needed a better one. Yeah, that’s my philosophy. There was always somebody.
Haml是因为我正在与一个需要更好的结构化数据的团队一起工作。 Wordset是因为我为自己制作了一本字典，然后意识到我们需要一本更好的字典。 是的，那是我的理念。 总有人。
David:
大卫：
-
I think everybody around here has certainly heard of Sass, and a lot of people have heard of Haml. I don’t know that a lot of people have heard about Wordset though. That was an interesting project.
我认为周围的每个人当然都听说过Sass，并且很多人都听说过Haml。 我不知道有很多人听说过Wordset。 那是一个有趣的项目。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah, well it’s probably because it’s not very successful, but yeah …
是的，嗯，这可能是因为它不是很成功，但是……
David:
大卫：
-
Successful on what scale? I mean, you’re the inventor of Sass.
在什么规模上成功？ 我的意思是，您是Sass的发明者。
Hampton [7:16]:
汉普顿[7:16] ：
-
Years ago I made an iPhone app called Dictionary! A couple hundred thousand people were using it for a long time. The dictionary I used for it — the source dictionary — was really bad. Well, not really … Yeah, it was pretty bad. It’s called WordNet. People might have heard of Wiktionary, which is Wikipedia’s dictionary, but I worked it Wikimedia Foundation, and that data’s very hard to use. So I realized there was a gap, where there wasn’t a structured way to collaborate on a dictionary that could be open source. That just didn’t exist.
多年前，我制作了一个名为Dictionary的iPhone应用程序！ 数十万人长期使用它。 我使用的字典-源字典-确实很糟糕。 好吧，不是真的……是的，这很糟糕。 它称为WordNet 。 人们可能已经听说过维基百科的词典Wiktionary ，但是我在Wikimedia Foundation上工作过，而且该数据很难使用。 因此，我意识到存在一个空白，那就是没有一种结构化的方式可以在可能是开源的字典上进行协作。 那只是不存在。
So my husband and I founded Wordset, and spent a year and a half just living off savings and building this kind of open-source project. Now there is an iPhone app for it, but we didn’t think it’d make any money, and it didn’t. It hit all of its personal goals. [Chuckles] It needed to exist. We didn’t get a lot of people working on it.
因此，我和我的丈夫创立了Wordset，并花了一年半的时间靠积蓄来建立这种开源项目。 现在有一个iPhone应用程序，但我们认为它不会赚钱，而且没有。 它实现了所有个人目标。 [笑声]它必须存在。 我们没有很多人对此进行研究。
It’s still up, and people still do help, but it never really hit critical mass of enough English nerds to come and help out. But some really interesting design stuff; I’m pretty proud of the way it functions.
它还在上升，人们仍然在提供帮助，但是它从来没有真正击中足够数量的英语书呆子来帮助的临界点。 但是一些非常有趣的设计知识； 我为它的运作方式感到骄傲。
That’s Wordset. But about nine months ago we ran out of our own personal money, and then realized that we should probably go work on something that we think could make a positive difference, and make money. Hence version zero again.
那是字集。 但是大约九个月前，我们用光了自己的个人钱，然后意识到我们应该从事一些我们认为可以带来积极影响并赚钱的工作。 因此，版本再次为零。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Speaking to all the work that you consistently do, how pivotal of a role — or how important does open source play into the type of projects that you launch? I noticed Sass is open source. I’m not sure if Haml is open source, but I would guess that it is. How important is open source to you?
谈到您一贯所做的所有工作，角色的关键性或开源在您启动的项目类型中的重要性？ 我注意到Sass是开源的。 我不确定Haml是否是开源的，但是我想是的。 开源对您有多重要？
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Very! [Chuckles] Done — move on!
非常！ [笑声]完成-继续前进！
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Perfect, question answered.
完美，问题得到解答。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
I never give a short answer. It’s funny, open source made so much sense to me, especially MIT style — very, like, sharing. Honestly, it’s just my personality. There’s definitely some stuff I’ve done where I haven’t released all the source. Wordset itself as a server isn’t technically open source, but all the data is. It was just a call trying to figure out if it was useful. It’s not really a tool for random people to run. (If you want to help out, send me a Twitter message.)
我从不简短回答。 这很有趣，开源对我来说非常有意义，尤其是MIT风格-非常喜欢共享。 老实说，这只是我的个性。 在没有发布所有源代码的情况下，肯定有一些我做过的事情。 Wordset作为服务器本身在技术上不是开源的，但所有数据都是开源的。 这只是一个电话，试图弄清楚它是否有用。 它实际上并不是让随机人群运行的工具。 (如果您需要帮助，请给我发送一条Twitter消息。)
Yeah, for me if you make something cool — I want to help people, I want to share things. I’m a developer. I want to help and share with other developers. That’s why I live. I can get personal here. I’m not planning on having kids. I don’t have to worry about money too much. I’m a white developer in San Francisco. What am I going to do in my life? I just want to have a positive influence.
是的，对我来说，如果您做点很酷的事情-我想帮助别人，我想分享一些东西。 我是开发人员。 我想提供帮助并与其他开发者分享。 那就是我活着的原因。 我可以在这里个人化。 我不打算生孩子。 我不必太担心钱。 我是旧金山的白人开发人员。 我一生要做什么？ 我只想产生积极的影响。
I think one of the best ways is — like, open source software lives beyond you. It even lives beyond the company. I love that it’s out of your control once it’s out there. Especially with MIT licenses: I feel like I can do whatever with it. Just take it, go, it’s yours. That just really makes me feel like what I’m doing matters, even if nobody ends up using it. But the cool part about open source is somebody will always end up using it.
我认为最好的方法之一是-像开源软件一样，超越您的生活。 它甚至超越了公司。 我爱，一旦它出现在您的控制之下。 特别是获得MIT许可证：我觉得我可以做任何事。 随身携带，走，这是你的。 即使没有人最终使用它，这也确实使我感到自己在做事情很重要。 但是关于开源的最酷的部分是，人们总是会最终使用它。
There’s this stupid thing I built for an iPhone project that never even launched, and I think it’s called RBResizer or something. It was like a box-sizing thing for images. Anyhow, I think I posted it on Gist publicly, and I tweeted it. I’m like,
If anybody needs this …
我为一个甚至从未启动过的iPhone项目构建了一个愚蠢的东西，我认为它叫做RBResizer或类似的东西。 这就像对图像进行大小调整。 无论如何，我想我已将其公开发布在Gist上，并在其上发布了推文。 我想，
如果有人需要...
It’s so funny. Like, that stupid little piece of 200 lines of code, it’s like a gist, it’s not even a thing, just keeps popping around the internet over and over and over again. This file’s like,
Oh, check this out, use the RBResizer.
That’s so cool to me. The ship went off into the sea, and it’s taking its own little life.真好笑 就像那200行代码的愚蠢小片段，就像一个要点，甚至都不是东西，只是不断地在互联网上反复翻来覆去。 这个文件就像，
哦，检查一下，使用RBResizer。
对我来说太酷了。 该船驶入海中，正在度过自己的小生命。
David:
大卫：
-
See, that must be very gratifying, and I think there are a lot of developers out there who look at the open-source community and they see releasing something out there, and they’re afraid nobody’s ever going to touch it. They don’t really know how to get people interested in it. They think about,
How do I market this to other developers?
You, on the other hand, you’ve created these projects, and people have just followed in droves.瞧，这一定是非常令人欣慰的，我认为那里有很多开发人员正在研究开源社区，他们看到在那里发布了一些东西，他们担心没人会碰它。 他们真的不知道如何使人们对此感兴趣。 他们思考，
如何将其推销给其他开发人员？
另一方面，您已经创建了这些项目，而人们却蜂拥而至。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
For every success, there’s a bunch of failures. There’s a ton. Jabble never took off. It was basically a CoffeeScripty thing, and my personal lack of execution or marketing on it was probably most to blame. I just have so many projects that I started and didn’t finish.
对于每一次成功，都会有很多失败。 一吨。 Jabble从未起飞。 这基本上是CoffeeScripty的事情，而我个人对此缺乏执行力或市场营销可能是最应归咎的。 我只有这么多项目，所以我开始但还没有完成。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I think the difference is the amount of content you keep on coming up with. The amount of ideas that you … You don’t just write it down in a book somewhere, like I do most of the time. I’m just like,
Oh, that’s a good idea, let me just store that forever and not do anything about it.
You actually work on these things. I’m wondering, where does the inspiration come from? Where do the ideas come from? What keeps you working on these things?我认为区别在于您不断提出的内容数量。 您所拥有的大量想法……您不像我大多数时候那样将其写在书中。 我就像，
哦，那是个好主意，让我将其永久存储而不做任何事情。
您实际上在处理这些事情。 我想知道灵感是从哪里来的？ 这些想法从何而来？ 是什么让您继续从事这些工作？Because, I can imagine that at some point you open your inbox and you see a thousand requests for, you know, open-source help, or maintenance on something that you worked on 15 years ago and forgot existed. What keeps you coming back to this work?
因为，我可以想象您有时会打开收件箱，并且看到成千上万个有关开源帮助或维护的请求，这些信息是您15年前从事的工作而忘记了。 是什么让您重新从事这项工作？
Hampton [12:04]:
汉普顿[12:04] ：
-
Fear of death. [Chuckles] That’s a fair answer — come on.
惧怕死亡。 [笑声]这是一个不错的答案-来吧。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Extra philosophical today!
今天特别哲学！
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah! A lot of people have talked about this — the feeling of responsibility that open-source contributors have. People burn out a lot on projects because they feel that everybody owes them … If they don’t work on it, and everybody will be mad … I don’t know. Most of my projects I work on for a while, and then either they die or another maintainer steps in.
是的 很多人都在谈论这一点-开源贡献者具有的责任感。 人们在项目上精疲力尽，因为他们觉得每个人都欠他们……如果他们不努力，每个人都会生气……我不知道。 我从事的大多数项目都需要一段时间，然后要么死掉，要么其他维护者介入。
Sass has been maintained by Natalie and Chris for the last while. I still talk about it. I’m still involved, but I don’t code. I don’t spend my whole Saturdays on it. I’ll answer emails if people need help. I try to teach courses on it. I try to encourage people, but I don’t wake up on a Saturday morning and spend all day coding.
Sass由Natalie和Chris维护了最后一阵子。 我仍然在谈论它。 我仍然参与其中，但是我不编码。 我不会在整个星期六上度过。 如果有人需要帮助，我会回复电子邮件。 我尝试教授有关课程。 我努力鼓励人们，但我不会在星期六的早晨醒来，并整日花时间编码。
Right now … well, it just depends on what phase of my life, right? When I saved up a little bit of money at my last job, and then took the time to do Wordset for a year. I didn’t really think it’d make any money. We put out a bunch of open-source code from that. I don’t know, if somebody had a question now, I’d probably try to fix it …
现在……好吧，这取决于我生活的哪个阶段，对吗？ 当我在上一份工作中存了一点钱，然后花了一年时间做Wordset时。 我真的不认为这会赚钱。 我们从中得出了一堆开源代码。 我不知道，如果有人现在有问题，我可能会尝试解决…
That’s a really bad answer. What keeps driving me? I don’t know. I like making things, and I want to keep making them.
这是一个非常糟糕的答案。 是什么驱使我前进？ 我不知道。 我喜欢做东西，而且我想继续做。
I had this weird thing happen to me — well, not weird — but I had an upbringing. Yeah, I’m just going to talk really personally, and you all can deal with it. Growing up gay in the South and in a religious household, with great parents by the way. Nobody kicked me out on the street, but it really made me question what my life was going to be, because it wasn’t going to be the story that I thought it was going to be. When I started thinking,
Well, maybe this is the only life I have, or at minimum maybe I should live my life like this is the only life I have. What do I want to leave behind?
我发生了这种奇怪的事情-好吧，不是怪异的-但是我有一个成长的经历。 是的，我只是要亲自谈一谈，大家都可以解决。 在南方和一个宗教家庭中长大的同性恋者，顺便和父母在一起。 没有人把我踢出街，但这确实让我质疑我的生活会怎样，因为这不会是我以为会的故事。 当我开始思考时，
好吧，也许这是我唯一的生活，或者至少我应该过着这样的生活，因为这是我唯一的生活。
我想留下什么？
For a lot of people, that’s their family. That’s a totally valid answer, but for me it was really clear that I had this idea. I was 19 or 18. The person who invented the electric razor, their name is in a book. They didn’t totally disappear by doing something that they gave back to technology and to society. It’s just this thing that wasn’t there before and now it’s there. They will live on with this thing. It’s like a form of immortality, and I took a weird … I think saying it now, it sounds really odd, but it made a lot of sense to me back then.
对于很多人来说，这就是他们的家人。 这是一个完全有效的答案，但是对我来说，很明显我有这个想法。 我当时19岁或18岁。发明电动剃须刀的人，他们的名字在书中。 他们所做的一些还给技术和社会的事情并没有完全消失。 只是这个东西以前不存在，现在它在那里。 他们将继续坚持下去。 这就像一种不朽的形式，我觉得很奇怪……我想现在说出来，听起来确实很奇怪，但是那时候对我来说很有意义。
It gave me a lot of peace to think that you can do something that makes the world better. Stand me on the shoulders of giants, and you just do a little bit more, and then that would be enough. Obviously, it’s never enough, so I keep doing it.
认为您可以做一些可以使世界变得更美好的事情，这给了我很大的安宁。 让我站在巨人的肩膀上，您只需多做一点，然后就足够了。 显然，这还远远不够，所以我继续这样做。
David:
大卫：
-
That is interesting, because it sounds like that’s something that you factored into how you designed your career and how you make each of your career choices.
这很有趣，因为听起来这是您设计职业以及如何做出职业选择的因素。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah, because I want to do something new. I want to help in a different way, yeah.
是的，因为我想做点新的事。 我想以其他方式提供帮助，是的。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I feel guilty listening to you explain all of your very well-thought-out reasoning behind your career and your motivation. Meanwhile, I’m over here like,
Oh, I like computers. Let me just do this for now.
That’s very inspiring, and very motivating for me just listening to you discuss your reasoning about this, so thank you.听到您解释您的职业和动机背后所有经过深思熟虑的推理，我感到内gui。 同时，我在这里，就像，
哦，我喜欢计算机。
让我现在就这样做。
这很鼓舞人心，对我来说也很激励人，只听您讨论您对此的推理，所以谢谢。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah, you’re welcome. I hope you’re at that level of peace. I’m an intense person. My family is intense, and I think that’s just how we are. We’re very intellectual, and I think that’s something I can’t stop. I can’t stop being in the shower in the morning and just thinking about what I’m going to build, what should I build, what’s needed, what are people thinking? How can I make it better? It’s like a compulsion to make things.
是的，不客气。 我希望你处于和平的境地。 我是一个热情的人。 我的家人很忙，我认为我们就是这样。 我们非常有才华，我认为这是我不能停止的。 我不能停止早上洗个澡，只是想着我要建造什么，我应该建造什么，需要什么，人们在想什么？ 我该如何做得更好？ 这就像制造事物的强迫。
David:
大卫：
-
Do you think that that level of intensity was partially responsible for some of the spread of some of the technologies that you’ve developed — in terms of how they’ve been adopted, and how people have picked up on them?
您是否认为这种强度的高低在某种程度上导致了您所开发的某些技术的传播(就如何采用它们以及人们如何接受它们而言)？
Hampton [15:42]:
汉普顿[15:42] ：
-
I don’t know, maybe. It’s funny, I feel very lazy about all of this stuff. I guess obviously I’m not or something, but I feel like I don’t spend a ton of time promoting things. I actually think that the things I’ve done have been more successful despite my laziness, mostly because they are weird. Haml was the first thing that I did that was successful, and it’s another thing where there was no languages like it before. Haml’s a markup language that — things like Jade now exist. There’s like a whole class of — I am very, very proud that there’s a whole class of these now.
我不知道，也许。 这很有趣，我对所有这些东西都很懒惰。 我想我显然不是，不是什么，但是我觉得我没有花很多时间去推广。 实际上，我认为尽管懒惰，我所做的事情还是比较成功的，这主要是因为它们很奇怪。 Haml是我成功的第一件事，而另一件事是以前没有像它这样的语言。 Haml是一种标记语言，例如Jade之类的东西现在已经存在。 就像一整堂课，我感到非常自豪，因为现在有一整堂课。
There’s tons of them now, but Haml was the first kind of indented, structural markup language. Most of them are white space sensitive, but not all of them. Yes, it was just kind of style, and I just made it. I thought it was weird and fun. I actually did it by putting HTML into a notepad on my computer, and I was feeling minimalist. I was like,
How much can I delete and still have it be readable, structural, and valid, so you couldn’t write not valid markup?
现在有很多，但是Haml是第一种缩进的结构化标记语言。 它们大多数对空格敏感，但并非全部。 是的，这只是一种风格，而我只是做到了。 我认为这很奇怪又有趣。 实际上，我是通过将HTML放入计算机上的记事本中来做到这一点的，我感到极简主义。 我当时想，
我可以删除多少内容，仍然保持可读性，结构性和有效性，因此您不能编写无效的标记？
First, I deleted all the closing tags, and then I made it well indented, because I always well indented my HTML when I wrote it. Then I got rid of that bracket and then this bracket. Then I said … Eventually, it was this weird style of thing that hadn’t exist before, and I started using it for about six months. Then a friend told me to — a coworker was like,
We’ll fly to London to talk about it.
I was a kid, so I was like,Yes!
I was terrified, and I shaved my head into a mohawk, dyed it red, and I bought some outfit that looked a little bit punkier than I normally would have been. That gave me some confidence, and I presented it. It was weird, and people reacted. People were talking about it, and then people showed up.首先，我删除了所有的结束标记，然后使其缩进，因为在编写HTML时我总是使其缩进。 然后我摆脱了那个支架，然后摆脱了这个支架。 然后我说……最终，这种怪异的东西以前不存在了，我开始使用它大约六个月。 然后一个朋友告诉我-一个同事就像，
我们将飞往伦敦谈论这个问题。
我还是个孩子，所以我想，是的！
我吓坏了，我把头剃成莫霍克族，染成红色，然后买了些看起来比平时更笨的衣服。 那给了我一些信心，我提出了。 很奇怪，人们做出了React。 人们在谈论它，然后人们出现了。Sass was a little bit slower growth, but it was definitely weird and took a while. Wikipedia Mobile, there was no Wikipedia — you couldn’t use Wikipedia on your phone, so I built an app for it. He tried to sue me, and then instead I got a job, so that was good. Each of these, it’s because they’re weird. It’s not because I worked hard. It’s because I was first.
Sass的增长速度稍慢一些，但肯定很奇怪，花了一段时间。 Wikipedia Mobile，没有Wikipedia-您无法在手机上使用Wikipedia，因此我为此开发了一个应用程序。 他试图起诉我，然后我找到了工作，所以那很好。 每一个都是因为它们很奇怪。 不是因为我努力 因为我是第一位。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
So, what you’re saying is, when you’re scared, go full mohawk, and then dye it a different color?
因此，您的意思是，当您感到害怕时，请穿上完整的莫霍克号，然后将其染成另一种颜色？
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Mm-hmm. [affirmative]
嗯 [肯定]
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
All right, I’m going to try that. I’m going to try that.
好吧，我要尝试一下。 我要尝试一下。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Look, there is something nice about … I view the Universe in a very quantum way. That is, there are multiple things going on, and multiple ways to view something. You know, like who am I? Am I an outgoing person or a shy person? I’m both, and I think I’m fully both. I’m a hermit who’s very personable and likes people and then totally hates people. That doesn’t bother me that that kind of quantum exists. And for me, doing something like being somebody who I’ve never been before, it can be natural because I’m like,
This is who I want to be. I wish I was this kind of person.
看，这有个不错的事情……我以一种非常量子的方式看待宇宙。 也就是说，正在发生多种情况，并且有多种查看方式。 你知道，就像我是谁？ 我是外向的人还是害羞的人？ 我都是，我认为我完全是。 我是一个非常有风度的隐士，喜欢人，然后完全讨厌人。 那并不困扰我那种量子的存在。 对我而言，做某事就像做一个我从未见过的人，这很自然，因为我喜欢，
这就是我想要成为的人。
我希望我是这样的人。
So if I just step into the role, then I have this weird idea. I didn’t know if everybody was going to hate it. It was so weird. It just didn’t look like anything else, and I was so afraid that they were going to hate it that, if I was up there, and I was the kid who just got his first tech job, and came from rich people in the South but had no money … I don’t know, that kind of sad character who I think of myself as at the time. That’s a lot of projection there, isn’t it?
因此，如果我只是担任这个角色，那么我就有这个奇怪的想法。 我不知道每个人是否都会讨厌它。 太奇怪了 看起来好像什么都没有，而且我怕他们会讨厌它，如果我在那儿，那我是刚刚拿到第一份技术工作并来自世界上有钱人的孩子。南方但没有钱……我不知道，我当时以为自己是那种可悲的角色。 那有很多预测，不是吗？
If people didn’t like that, then I would feel it personally. If I look like somebody different, or if I make myself into what I want to be, then if somebody rejects that, that’s not me. That was somebody else. It’s okay. It gave me a little bit of safety. But now I do just occasionally do a mohawk, because it’s no longer that weird.
如果人们不喜欢它，那我个人会感到。 如果我看起来像一个与众不同的人，或者让自己成为自己想要成为的人，那么如果有人拒绝了 ，那不是我。 那是其他人。 没关系。 它给了我一点安全。 但是现在我偶尔会做一个莫霍克族，因为它不再那么奇怪了。
David:
大卫：
-
You used that to create a persona for yourself, to present some confidence.
您使用它来为自己创建一个角色，以表达一些自信。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Yeah, definitely.
是的，当然。
David:
大卫：
-
And yet, I’ve heard you speak before, and even in this conversation, you’re very genuine and personal. You go into your own background. You put yourself out there so much, compared to a lot of people who focus on their technologies and the content and the context. You’ve really seem to put yourself into what you’re doing.
但是，我以前听说过您讲话，即使在这次对话中，您也非常真诚和个性化。 您进入自己的背景。 与许多专注于自己的技术，内容和上下文的人相比，您投入了太多精力。 您似乎真的将自己投入到正在做的事情中。
Hampton [19:40]:
汉普顿[19:40] ：
-
I know you had Chris Coyier on not too long ago. He is one of my favorite people on the planet. He makes so much content all the time. He’s also an amazing person. Seriously, I’m always in awe at the amount of content he can do. He knows … Oh, and Vitaly. Holy moly — he just knows everything about everything.
我知道您不久前就有Chris Coyier 。 他是地球上我最喜欢的人之一。 他总是很满足。 他也是一个了不起的人。 认真地说，我总是对他能做的事情感到敬畏。 他知道……哦，还有维塔利 。 天哪，他只知道一切。
Well, first of all, I feel like I don’t have that much knowledge. I can talk more about history, if you want — but that’s probably not very interesting here. They know so much more than I do, and I find though that people I really care about, people starting off in this industry — a lot of Sass users, it’s their first programming language, or anything like a programming language. Yeah, there you go.
好吧，首先，我觉得我没有那么多知识。 如果您愿意，我可以谈论更多历史，但这在这里可能不是很有趣。 他们比我了解得多，而且我发现，尽管我真正关心的是那些刚开始从事该行业的人-很多Sass用户，这是他们的第一门编程语言，或者诸如编程语言之类的东西。 是的，你去了。
A lot of the people I meet when I’m out and about are talking to people, you know, are just getting started. They’re really looking for guidance, and they want to know are they safe? Are they okay? Is this normal? What should I be doing? I have a real heart for those people. Making sure people feel supported and good, and I find that the more honest I am about myself and my fears and how much doubt I have about my own abilities, if I’m vulnerable … The messages I care most about when I get emails are people who are like,
Thank you for saying that. I felt like that.
Or,Thank you for admitting that you did that stupid thing.
我出门旅行时遇到的很多人都在与人聊天，您知道，他们才刚刚开始。 他们确实在寻找指导，他们想知道它们是否安全？ 可以吗 这正常吗？ 我该怎么办？ 我对那些人有一颗真心。 确保人们感到支持和良好，如果我很脆弱，我会发现自己对自己和自己的恐惧更诚实，对自己的能力有多大的怀疑……当我收到电子邮件时，我最关心的信息是喜欢的人，
谢谢你这么说。
我就是那样
或者，感谢您承认您做了那愚蠢的事情。
I know how imperfect I am, and I just want people to know that they’re OK. That’s really important to me. I feel like the best way for me to demonstrate that is if I’m not ashamed of who I am, and I’m very open about my flaws and who I am and things not everybody might like, then hopefully they will too. I know that there are people out there who will care about them, love them, and accept them.
我知道自己有多完美，我只想让人们知道他们还可以。 这对我来说真的很重要。 我觉得这是证明自己的最佳方式，如果我不以自己的身份为耻，并且对自己的缺点，自己是谁以及所有人都不喜欢的事物持开放态度，那么希望他们也能做到。 我知道外面有人会关心他们，爱他们并接受他们。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
It’s refreshing to see that your point of view is less about code, syntax, and computers and more about the people who actually use those sorts of things.
令人耳目一新的是，您的观点与代码，语法和计算机无关，而与实际使用此类事物的人员有关。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Oh, yeah. I like coding, sure. I also like doing sudoku sometimes, but I don’t know, they’re numbers. That’s code. It’s not a thing itself. I don’t really care about it. What I care about is what technology can do and the people side.
哦耶。 当然，我喜欢编码。 我有时也喜欢做数独游戏，但我不知道，它们是数字。 那是代码。 它本身不是东西。 我真的不在乎。 我关心的是技术可以做什么以及人的方面。
The first website I ever built (or maybe second, but whatever) was a joke website where I had people apologize to cows. It was a dumb idea I had. It was called Sorry, Cow, and it was tongue in cheek. It was a joke, so it was kind of,
Oh, sorry. We eat you delicious cows, but we’re going to keep doing it because we literally have no other options.
我建立的第一个网站(也许是第二个，但无论如何)是一个玩笑的网站，我在那里向人们道歉。 我有一个愚蠢的主意。 它被称为“ 抱歉，母牛” ，那是面颊的舌头。 这是个玩笑，所以有点，
哦，对不起。
我们为您吃了美味的母牛，但我们将继续这样做，因为我们实际上没有其他选择。
It was a little petition. It went around on LiveJournal, and I think something like — I always get the number wrong — I think it was like 70,000 or 80,000 people signed that. It was on so many people’s LiveJournals, and I just made this thing in a day. I thought it was funny, and I made 70,000 people write down — they didn’t just read it; there must have been more people. (We didn’t have Google Analytics back then.) People put down their email address and their name that many times because they thought it was funny. That blew my mind that you can have that effect. You can reach that number of people? You can be Beyoncé. 70,000 people, that number is mind boggling to me. I don’t make joke websites anymore. I decided to maybe do something more valuable. [Laughs]
这是一个小请愿。 它出现在LiveJournal上，我认为类似-我总是弄错数字-我认为这就像70,000或80,000人签署了该协议。 它在很多人的LiveJournals上发布，我一天之内就完成了。 我以为这很有趣，我让70,000人写下来-他们不仅阅读了它，还写了一些东西。 肯定会有更多的人。 (当时我们还没有Google Analytics(分析)。)人们多次记下他们的电子邮件地址和姓名，是因为他们认为这很有趣。 这让我震惊，您可以发挥这种作用。 您可以达到那个人数？ 你可以成为碧昂斯。 70,000人，这个数字让我感到困惑。 我不再开玩笑的网站了。 我决定也许做一些更有价值的事情。 [笑]
David:
大卫：
-
I don’t know, something tells me that you’re not done making joke websites. I’m expecting more from you in the future, man.
我不知道，有件事告诉我您还没有完成开玩笑的网站。 老兄，我希望您将来还会有更多。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Something tells me I should start apologizing to cows a little bit, now that I think about it. I eat a lot of beef.
有件事告诉我，现在考虑一下，我应该开始对奶牛道歉。 我吃很多牛肉。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
It is on the Wayback Machine, so I feel like I could totally rebuild the site and put it back up with the original shitty jokes, just for fun.
它在Wayback Machine上 ，所以我觉得我可以完全重建该站点，并以原始的低级玩笑来备份它，只是为了好玩。
David:
大卫：
-
It’s inspiring to the people out there who have weird ideas and are intimidated by putting them out there, and you’re demonstrating that it’s possible to put them out there.
这启发了那些想法怪异的人，并因将它们丢在外面而被吓倒了，这表明您有可能将它们放在那里。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
If you have an idea and you’re surprised it doesn’t exist, build it if you have the time. I mean, some people don’t have the time or whatever, families, life, disease. I’m going to do a little bit of a subject change. I tend to pop stacks pretty fast.
如果您有一个主意，但感到惊讶的是它不存在，请在有时间的情况下进行构建。 我的意思是，有些人没有时间或其他任何事情，包括家庭，生活，疾病。 我将做一些主题更改。 我倾向于快速弹出堆栈。
One time I gave a talk, and I got up on stage. I was like,
Go out there and build something. You can do it. Just take a weekend, just believe in yourself. You can do this.
I thought this is the most innocent, straightforward talk I could ever give. The organizer of that conference came back to me later, but was like,We got a lot of complaints about your talk.
I was like,Wait, what?
(The talk’s online by the way. It’s scarring me though, because I usually don’t get complaints.)一次我演讲，然后我站上了舞台。 我当时想，
去那里建造一些东西。
你能行的。
只花一个周末，只相信自己。
你可以这样做。
我认为这是我有史以来最无辜，最直接的谈话。 那个会议的组织者后来回来找我，但是就像，我们收到了很多关于您的演讲的抱怨。
我当时想，等等，什么？
(顺便说一下，这次演讲在线上。但是，这让我很伤心，因为我通常不会抱怨。)He was like,
Yeah, we got complaints, because people said, ‘Yeah, I don’t have weekends. Why are you assuming I have weekends? This isn’t just so easy that I even have that ability.’
I definitely changed the way I talked about that since then. I bring that up because I was caveat-ing my thing. It’s important though because — some people are not … it’s extra hard for them to do that kind of thing. I’m still going to encourage people to do it, even if it’s maybe harder than it would be for me.他说，
是的，我们收到了投诉，因为人们说：“是的，我没有周末。
你为什么假设我有周末？
不仅如此，我什至拥有这种能力。
从那时起，我肯定改变了我谈论这个话题的方式。 我提出来是因为我在警告我。 但是，这很重要，因为-有些人不是……他们做这种事情特别困难。 我仍然会鼓励人们去做，即使这可能比我做的难。
Tim [24:30]:
蒂姆[24:30] ：
-
I mean, some of us are just really lazy — like me.
我的意思是，我们中有些人真的很懒惰-就像我一样。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
That’s true. Oh, my gosh. I spend so much time … You don’t know how many hours I spend on Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis. I believe I’m plus 400 hours on each one of those.
确实如此。 天啊。 我花了很多时间... ...你不知道我在十字军国王或欧罗巴环球影业上花了几个小时。 我相信我每个人都要花400个小时。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Nice.
真好
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
They’re very, very nerdy games, and I’ve put way more mental energy into those games than … I could have reinvented, rewritten Sass three times with the amount of mental energy into those.
它们是非常非常讨厌的游戏，与这些游戏相比，我在这些游戏中投入了更多的精神能量……我本可以将它们的精神能量重新发明，重写Sass 3次。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Sass 2.
无礼2。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Sass 9, yeah.
Sass 9，是的。
David:
大卫：
-
It sounds to me like maybe you get inspiration from the relaxation that you put into those things, and that outlet gives you the opportunity to expand your thoughts into these weird areas.
在我看来，也许您会从放宽对这些事物的放松中获得灵感，而这种出路为您提供了将思想扩展到这些怪异领域的机会。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Oh, yeah. Some people think that if you do open-source work, you’re a workaholic. I’ve mostly done open source when I have the free time. We’re recording this, it’s almost 5 o'clock, and I’ve been at work. I got in at 7:30, and when it hits 5 o'clock, I am going to leave. That is it. I’m not going to bring my laptop, and I’m not going to do any programming tonight. If there’s a question, they can ping me on Slack, and I’ll probably answer, but beyond that I’m done, because you can’t program that much. You cannot!
哦耶。 有人认为，如果您从事开源工作，那么您就是工作狂。 有空的时候，我大部分时间都是开源的。 我们正在记录，已经快5点了，我一直在工作。 我于7:30进站，到5点钟， 我要离开了 。 这就对了。 我不会带上笔记本电脑，并且今晚不会进行任何编程。 如果有问题，他们可以在Slack上对我执行ping操作，我可能会回答，但除此之外，我已经完成了，因为您不能进行太多编程。 你不能 ！
That’s why I don’t expect people who have full time jobs to do open-source work. I don’t contribute to any open-source projects today, because I’m busy trying to build a company, and I think that’s OK. There’s no mythical thing. I don’t think beat yourself up if you’re busy. So maybe you need to just go relax. I make no apologies about the fact that I’m not answering your email, but I’m playing 8 hours of Sift 6. I tend to like building games, which I guess … I sit at my computer all day at work, building software, and then I go home and I build fake cities and fake civilizations and moon bases. I like that one a lot. Those are pretty fun.
这就是为什么我不期望有全职工作的人从事开源工作。 我今天不参与任何开源项目，因为我正忙于建立公司，所以我认为这没关系。 没有什么神秘的东西。 如果您很忙，我不认为自己会生气。 所以也许您需要放松一下。 我没有回复您的电子邮件，但我正在玩8个小时的Sift 6，对此我并不表示歉意。我倾向于喜欢开发游戏，我想……我整天坐在电脑前，正在开发软件。 ，然后回家，建立假城市，假文明和月球基地。 我非常喜欢那个。 那些很有趣。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I think what I’ve learned today is, number one, I need to apologize to a lot of different animals, because I eat a lot of different animals. But secondly, I’ve learned a lot about where your inspiration comes from, and how you source different ideas, as well as your ideas towards open source. I’m definitely motivated to work on some of the ideas that I’ve had and just to, I don’t know, keep it weird because it seems like that’s where you get the most results from.
我想我今天学到的是第一，我需要向很多不同的动物道歉，因为我吃了很多不同的动物。 但是，第二，我学到了很多关于您的灵感来自何处，如何获取不同的想法以及对开放源代码的想法。 我绝对有动力去从事一些我曾经有过的想法，但我不知道，让它变得很奇怪，因为这似乎是从中获得最大收益的地方。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
Keep it weird.
保持怪异。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah, everybody, keep it weird. If you have the idea, work on it and think about the people behind the code. That’s something that I sometimes struggle with. That’s something that I often … I just like writing code and syntax, JavaScript stuff, and when I think about the people behind the stuff that I’m doing, I think that’s when I’m the most productive.
是的，大家，请保持怪异。 如果您有想法，请继续研究并考虑代码背后的人员。 我有时会为此感到困惑。 那是我经常遇到的事情……我喜欢编写代码和语法，JavaScript东西，当我想到正在做的东西背后的人时，我认为那是我最有生产力的时候。
So, Hampton, thank you so much for joining us today. I think we’ve learned a lot, and there’s a ton of good stuff that we can take away here today, so thank you again so much for joining us on the Versioning Podcast.
因此，汉普顿，非常感谢您今天加入我们。 我认为我们已经学到了很多东西，并且今天有很多好东西可以带走，所以再次感谢您加入我们的Versioning Podcast。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
You’re welcome.
别客气。
[Laughter]
[笑声]
David:
大卫：
-
That was inspired.
You’re welcome.
那是启发。
别客气。
Hampton:
汉普顿
-
I could say something, but it seems like the end!
我可以说些什么，但似乎结束了！
[Laughter]
[笑声]
David:
大卫：
-
Yeah, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you. Again, thank you so much for joining us.
是的，很高兴与您聊天。 再次感谢您加入我们。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
First off, that was probably the most fun that I’ve had doing an episode on this show, because Hampton just has a crazy amount of energy, and such a wide breadth of things that he wants to discuss and is interested in talking about.
First off, that was probably the most fun that I've had doing an episode on this show, because Hampton just has a crazy amount of energy, and such a wide breadth of things that he wants to discuss and is interested in talking about.
David [27:58]:
David [27:58] :
-
I know, we went into this asking him how he came up with all of these ideas, and then he demonstrated exactly how his mind works, and how broadly he thinks.
I know, we went into this asking him how he came up with all of these ideas, and then he demonstrated exactly how his mind works, and how broadly he thinks.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I think we got very close to being the most philosophical we’ve ever been on this show, which is always exciting to kind of push that a little bit further.
I think we got very close to being the most philosophical we've ever been on this show, which is always exciting to kind of push that a little bit further.
David:
大卫：
-
Which is impressive, because Hampton’s also capable of going really, really deep into tech. Wasn’t he talking about maybe bringing up the topic of machine learning or something when we started this?
Which is impressive, because Hampton's also capable of going really, really deep into tech. Wasn't he talking about maybe bringing up the topic of machine learning or something when we started this?
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah, it kind of seemed like we didn’t get to that. Maybe we should have him on again to talk more about those sorts of things, but I don’t know, I think — I wanted at some point to ask him about where all of his motivation comes from, but after just hearing him talk about the types of things that he works on and his motivations, I kind of just started to understand that that’s just how his brain works. It’s fascinating. It’s fascinating to see that someone who just looks at problems differently than everybody else and just continues to go for it, but at the same time is not constantly working on open-source projects, and takes breaks, but at the same has these new ideas.
Yeah, it kind of seemed like we didn't get to that. Maybe we should have him on again to talk more about those sorts of things, but I don't know, I think — I wanted at some point to ask him about where all of his motivation comes from, but after just hearing him talk about the types of things that he works on and his motivations, I kind of just started to understand that that's just how his brain works. It's fascinating. It's fascinating to see that someone who just looks at problems differently than everybody else and just continues to go for it, but at the same time is not constantly working on open-source projects, and takes breaks, but at the same has these new ideas.
David:
大卫：
-
The thing that I found so inspiring was his emphasis on the weird, and the value of the weird, because people feel intimidated by putting things out into the world and people feel like they’re going to be judged and evaluated. He was judged and evaluated. He gave that talk once. The very first talk he gave, he felt like he had to costume himself up just to get up the nerve to get in front of people and talk about something that he’d made that was weird. He’s demonstrated that by putting things out there into the world, no matter how weird they are, if they’re something that appeals to you, there’s somebody out there who might be interested in it, and it’s worth doing.
The thing that I found so inspiring was his emphasis on the weird, and the value of the weird, because people feel intimidated by putting things out into the world and people feel like they're going to be judged and evaluated. He was judged and evaluated. He gave that talk once. The very first talk he gave, he felt like he had to costume himself up just to get up the nerve to get in front of people and talk about something that he'd made that was weird. He's demonstrated that by putting things out there into the world, no matter how weird they are, if they're something that appeals to you, there's somebody out there who might be interested in it, and it's worth doing.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yes, speaking to that, I, for one, and I’m sure a bunch of us have thought about something and then one second later thought to ourselves,
Oh, my goodness. That’s the worst idea in the world. I’m terrible. That will never see the light of day.
I don’t think Hampton has ever thought that in his life.Yes, speaking to that, I, for one, and I'm sure a bunch of us have thought about something and then one second later thought to ourselves,
Oh, my goodness. That's the worst idea in the world. I'm terrible. That will never see the light of day.
I don't think Hampton has ever thought that in his life.
David:
大卫：
-
If he has, he’s kept it to himself, and that might be the only thing he’s kept to himself.
If he has, he's kept it to himself, and that might be the only thing he's kept to himself.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah, exactly. It seems like no matter what the idea is, in his head he’s just like,
All right, let’s go for it and see what happens.
Could you imagine Sass could have been one of those ideas that someone was like,Yeah, this is ridiculous. This was never going to work. Let’s just not do it.
是的，完全正确。 It seems like no matter what the idea is, in his head he's just like,
All right, let's go for it and see what happens.
Could you imagine Sass could have been one of those ideas that someone was like,Yeah, this is ridiculous. This was never going to work. Let's just not do it.
David:
大卫：
-
It’s true. And yet, you’ve seen how it’s taken off. I mean, there are so many child projects that rely on Sass, and industries that have been built up around the adoption and use of Sass. It’s integrated into so many websites. I wonder what the statistics are on that.
这是真的。 And yet, you've seen how it's taken off. I mean, there are so many child projects that rely on Sass, and industries that have been built up around the adoption and use of Sass. It's integrated into so many websites. I wonder what the statistics are on that.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
I, for one, haven’t built anything that uses just CSS in as long as I can remember.
I, for one, haven't built anything that uses just CSS in as long as I can remember.
David:
大卫：
-
I don’t think that anybody has, and there have been copycat projects and similar alternatives to Sass that have been out there. But everybody seems to be gravitating back towards Sass, and for good reason: it’s very solid technology.
I don't think that anybody has, and there have been copycat projects and similar alternatives to Sass that have been out there. But everybody seems to be gravitating back towards Sass, and for good reason: it's very solid technology.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Another thing that really inspired me was how Hampton focuses on people. Like he said, code is fun. It’s cool, it’s OK, whatever. But the reason that he does what he does is for the person behind the software. Like I said, I sometimes find myself only focusing on solving fun code puzzles. There’s so much — it’s like a waste to do that. There’s so much more. There are people that you’re building these things for. You’re not just building stuff for other machines.
Another thing that really inspired me was how Hampton focuses on people. Like he said, code is fun. It's cool, it's OK, whatever. But the reason that he does what he does is for the person behind the software. Like I said, I sometimes find myself only focusing on solving fun code puzzles. There's so much — it's like a waste to do that. There's so much more. There are people that you're building these things for. You're not just building stuff for other machines.
David:
大卫：
-
This brings me back to what brought me to online communications in the first place — when I realized that I was looking at my computer and there were people in there. I could interact with them. It blew my mind, and that was what got me going down this path in the first place. It’s wonderful to hear somebody who’s taken that sense of childlike delight at the people who are using the projects, and kept that as a main focus in the work that he’s doing.
This brings me back to what brought me to online communications in the first place — when I realized that I was looking at my computer and there were people in there. I could interact with them. It blew my mind, and that was what got me going down this path in the first place. It's wonderful to hear somebody who's taken that sense of childlike delight at the people who are using the projects, and kept that as a main focus in the work that he's doing.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yeah, I have to say, I’m really motivated to just think of something weird now and just go for it.
Yeah, I have to say, I'm really motivated to just think of something weird now and just go for it.
David:
大卫：
-
I’m going to ask you, because it’s a good opportunity …
I'm going to ask you, because it's a good opportunity …
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Sure.
当然。
David:
大卫：
-
… What’s the weirdest thing that you’ve put out there, or that you haven’t put out there yet but you think you might?
… What's the weirdest thing that you've put out there, or that you haven't put out there yet but you think you might?
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
The weirdest thing …
The weirdest thing …
David:
大卫：
-
Regardless of whether it got any uptake, I’m just curious. Have you gone the weird path?
Regardless of whether it got any uptake, I'm just curious. Have you gone the weird path?
Tim [32]:
Tim [32] :
-
I would have to say maybe the most useless thing that I’ve ever built …
I would have to say maybe the most useless thing that I've ever built …
David:
大卫：
-
Useless is good.
Useless is good.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
… It’s not super weird. It was just a thing that … It’s probably not necessary, but anyways, I’ve written about this before. I’ve spoken about this before. I built a thing that allows people to build restaurant menus with HTML instead of making restaurant menus out of PDFs, because it was just something I was annoyed by. The reason I bring this up is because the same technology, just doing a find and replace, could be a resume builder or something much more helpful to society as a whole.
… It's not super weird. It was just a thing that … It's probably not necessary, but anyways, I've written about this before. I've spoken about this before. I built a thing that allows people to build restaurant menus with HTML instead of making restaurant menus out of PDFs, because it was just something I was annoyed by. The reason I bring this up is because the same technology, just doing a find and replace, could be a resume builder or something much more helpful to society as a whole.
I was angry about restaurant menus, so I built what’s basically a giant form that you fill in the names, prices, and descriptions of food, and it creates a responsive, HTML- and CSS-based menu for restaurants. I should totally turn that into a free resume builder. In fact, I feel guilty every second that I don’t do that, but that’s probably … I don’t think anyone has used it, because I guess PDFs allow for more creativity, but that was probably the either weirdest or most useless thing that I’ve ever done.
I was angry about restaurant menus, so I built what's basically a giant form that you fill in the names, prices, and descriptions of food, and it creates a responsive, HTML- and CSS-based menu for restaurants. I should totally turn that into a free resume builder. In fact, I feel guilty every second that I don't do that, but that's probably … I don't think anyone has used it, because I guess PDFs allow for more creativity, but that was probably the either weirdest or most useless thing that I've ever done.
David:
大卫：
-
That sounds pretty weird. It’s open source though, right?
That sounds pretty weird. It's open source though, right?
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yes, 100%. It’s on GitHub. It’s on restaurantmenubuilder.com.
Yes, 100%. It's on GitHub . It's on restaurantmenubuilder.com .
David:
大卫：
-
We have an audience out here that could all go out and fork this and make it into something great.
We have an audience out here that could all go out and fork this and make it into something great.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yes, please do. Make it something that benefits people. Please. Not just to me. It was a very selfish project.
Yes, please do. Make it something that benefits people. 请。 Not just to me. It was a very selfish project.
David:
大卫：
-
Yes, support weird ideas.
Yes, support weird ideas.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Yes, support weird ideas. You know what, if you fork this and make something super, super weird, that’s cool too.
Yes, support weird ideas. You know what, if you fork this and make something super, super weird, that's cool too.
David:
大卫：
-
I had a weird project myself. A couple years ago, I was reading novels from the 18th century, and I was thinking to myself, they’re very caught in their society, in the times that they were written in. All the men have the masculine roles. All of the women have the feminine roles. How could I look at this, and what would it be like reading these novels if the men were in the women’s roles and the women were in the men’s roles? Just to switch that around. I thought,
That’s a text processing challenge. I could do something like that.
I had a weird project myself. A couple years ago, I was reading novels from the 18th century, and I was thinking to myself, they're very caught in their society, in the times that they were written in. All the men have the masculine roles. All of the women have the feminine roles. How could I look at this, and what would it be like reading these novels if the men were in the women's roles and the women were in the men's roles? Just to switch that around. I thought,
That's a text processing challenge. I could do something like that.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Oooh, that’s super cool.
Oooh, that's super cool.
David:
大卫：
-
I wrote this little thing. I just called it the Transconceive Project, and I
transconceived
a couple of novels. I put them out there into the world, and it’s not something that’s gotten a lot of uptake. It’s probably because I didn’t open source my code, because my code totally sucks for the way that I approached it. I wrote it in Ruby. It’s slow. If I were going to do it again, I’d probably do it Go, and that would be fun. It was so much fun putting together this really weird little thing, and putting it out there, and I’ve gotten a very small amount of feedback from it, but it’s been so delightful when somebody comes across it and says that it changed their perspective on a book that they were familiar with.I wrote this little thing. I just called it the Transconceive Project , and I
transconceived
a couple of novels. I put them out there into the world, and it's not something that's gotten a lot of uptake. It's probably because I didn't open source my code, because my code totally sucks for the way that I approached it. I wrote it in Ruby. It's slow. If I were going to do it again, I'd probably do it Go, and that would be fun. It was so much fun putting together this really weird little thing, and putting it out there, and I've gotten a very small amount of feedback from it, but it's been so delightful when somebody comes across it and says that it changed their perspective on a book that they were familiar with.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
That sounds really cool, but I have to say, bad code or not, you should definitely open source it.
That sounds really cool, but I have to say, bad code or not, you should definitely open source it.
David:
大卫：
-
My code looks bad! I’m so embarrassed! [Laughs]
My code looks bad! I'm so embarrassed! [笑]
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
My biggest contribution ever to open source was helping to integrate responsive images into WordPress Core. None of my original code — maybe like one line — made it into WordPress Core. I don’t work on the project anymore, but I led the push for that, and I was sort of — I was co-lead developer. My original code was so terrible, and so bug-riddled, that it would have never made sense. I had no idea what to do and how to get started, but I contacted Matt Marquis and we just made it happen. It was open source, and it turned into this thing that now works incredibly for (what is it?) 25% of the internet.
My biggest contribution ever to open source was helping to integrate responsive images into WordPress Core. None of my original code — maybe like one line — made it into WordPress Core. I don't work on the project anymore, but I led the push for that, and I was sort of — I was co-lead developer. My original code was so terrible, and so bug-riddled, that it would have never made sense. I had no idea what to do and how to get started, but I contacted Matt Marquis and we just made it happen. It was open source, and it turned into this thing that now works incredibly for (what is it?) 25% of the internet.
I have to say, please, open source stuff. People should and hopefully will be nice and help you make it better. That’s been my experience. Open source regardless, but that leads me to another thing that Hampton sort of started to touch on. I think it’s a really good goal in mind when you open source something, or when you first put something up on GitHub. The goal being that if this thing gets big, ultimately, it should be handed off to other people to run with, because I think that sort of gets rid of the open-source guilt that a lot of our guests have spoken about. It just keeps you from getting burnt out as a developer.
I have to say, please, open source stuff. People should and hopefully will be nice and help you make it better. That's been my experience. Open source regardless, but that leads me to another thing that Hampton sort of started to touch on. I think it's a really good goal in mind when you open source something, or when you first put something up on GitHub. The goal being that if this thing gets big, ultimately, it should be handed off to other people to run with, because I think that sort of gets rid of the open-source guilt that a lot of our guests have spoken about. It just keeps you from getting burnt out as a developer.
David [36:04]:
David [36:04] :
-
That’s interesting, because it also prevents you from feeling like you can’t take responsibility for something because you just don’t have the time or the bandwidth to maintain it. The point of open source is that there is a community out there, and they can help with the things — they can fill in the gaps where your own skills might be lacking. They can build out the areas where there’s an actual need, because they see it and you might not from your one perspective.
That's interesting, because it also prevents you from feeling like you can't take responsibility for something because you just don't have the time or the bandwidth to maintain it. The point of open source is that there is a community out there, and they can help with the things — they can fill in the gaps where your own skills might be lacking. They can build out the areas where there's an actual need, because they see it and you might not from your one perspective.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
It’s like if you were to open up a business and it becomes massively popular, and enormous, and profitable very quickly. You can spend the rest of your life working on this business and pouring your time into it and maybe micromanaging a little bit, or you can hand it off to some capable and qualified people and go on to your next adventure.
It's like if you were to open up a business and it becomes massively popular, and enormous, and profitable very quickly. You can spend the rest of your life working on this business and pouring your time into it and maybe micromanaging a little bit, or you can hand it off to some capable and qualified people and go on to your next adventure.
I, for one, love handing things off, because with the WordPress thing that I worked on, it got to the point where it was a little bit too technical and little bit beyond my knowledge of the inner workings of WordPress. I could have studied up and worked on it, but I have another career. I have this podcast, and I thought to myself,
You know what? Everyone working on this right now knows more about it than me. I’m not necessarily needed here. I had a good run. I started it, and now it’s my turn to sort of go do something else.
I, for one, love handing things off, because with the WordPress thing that I worked on, it got to the point where it was a little bit too technical and little bit beyond my knowledge of the inner workings of WordPress. I could have studied up and worked on it, but I have another career. I have this podcast, and I thought to myself,
You know what? Everyone working on this right now knows more about it than me. I'm not necessarily needed here. I had a good run. I started it, and now it's my turn to sort of go do something else.
David:
大卫：
-
Which is exactly Hampton did with Sass. He says right now he’s not hands on on it. He certainly doesn’t spend his Saturdays coding on it, but he’s got a good team of people who are maintaining it and managing it. Goodness knows the number of people who are using it in other projects. There’s no way one person could be touching all of that.
Which is exactly Hampton did with Sass. He says right now he's not hands on on it. He certainly doesn't spend his Saturdays coding on it, but he's got a good team of people who are maintaining it and managing it. Goodness knows the number of people who are using it in other projects. There's no way one person could be touching all of that.
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
Well, thank you so much for listening, everybody. We always enjoy getting to talk technology with all of you.
好，非常感谢大家的倾听。 我们总是喜欢与大家交谈技术。
David:
大卫：
-
We’d also like to thank SitePoint.com, and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat, with production help from Ralph Mason. Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @versioningshow — and give us a rating on iTunes to let us know how we’re doing.
We'd also like to thank SitePoint.com , and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat, with production help from Ralph Mason. 请随时在Twitter( @versioningshow)上向我们发送您的评论，并在iTunes上给我们评分 ，让我们知道我们的情况。
Tim:
蒂姆：
-
We’ll see you next time, and we hope you enjoyed this version.
下次见，我们希望您喜欢这个版本。
翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/versioning-show-episode-18-with-hampton-catlin/
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