使用Mat Marquis在您的网络职业中寻找意义

In this episode of the Versioning Show, Tim and David speak with Mat Marquis, a web designer well known for his work on responsive images, the Boston Globe redesign, and CSS container queries. In this hitchhiker’s guide to starting a web career, Mat talks about web standards, making a name for yourself on the web, and finding meaning in your web career.

在Versioning Show的这一集中，Tim和David与Web设计师Mat Marquis进行了交谈，Mat Marquis以其在响应式图像，Boston Globe重新设计和CSS容器查询方面的工作而闻名。 在这个旅行者开始网络职业的指南中，Mat讨论了网络标准，在网络上为自己起个名字以及在网络职业中找到意义。

Visit the Versioning Show Home Page

访问版本控制显示主页

Subscribe on iTunes | Subscribe on Stitcher | View All Episodes

在iTunes上订阅 | 订阅Stitcher | 查看所有剧集

显示笔记 (Show Notes)

• Responsive Issues Community Group

  响应问题社区小组

• Bocoup

  Bocoup

• Bocoup Open Web Engineers

  Bocoup开放Web工程师

• An Event Apart

  一个事件分开

• Web Incubator Community Group (WICG)

  网络孵化器社区小组(WICG)

• Container Queries: Once More Unto the Breach

  容器查询：再次违反

• Houdini

  胡迪尼

• Calc() + Min-width + Max-width For Media-query-less responsive layouts

  Calc()+最小宽度+最大宽度用于无媒体查询的响应式布局

• picturefill

  图片填充

• Mat on Twitter: @wilto

  推特上的垫子： @wilto

• Mat on GitHub: Wilto

  GitHub上的Mat： Wilto

• More Twitter links: @versioningshow | @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @sitepointdotcom

  更多Twitter链接： @versioningshow | @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @sitepointdotcom

成绩单 (Transcript)

Tim: 蒂姆：

Hey, what’s up everybody, this is Tim Evko …

嘿，大家好，我是Tim Evko……

David: 大卫：

… and this is M. David Green …

…这是大卫·格林(M. David Green)…

Tim: 蒂姆：

… and you’re listening to episode number two of the Versioning Podcast. This is a place where we sit down every two weeks to discuss the industry of the web from development to design — with some of the people making it happen today and planning where it’s headed in the next version.

…，您正在收听Versioning Podcast的第二集。 在这里，我们每两周开会一次，讨论从开发到设计的网络行业-一些人使之成为现实，并计划下一版的发展方向。

David: 大卫：

So, let’s go ahead and get this version started.

因此，让我们继续进行此版本的启动。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Today, we have a special guest, Mat Marquis. Mat, how’s it going?

今天，我们有一位特别嘉宾Mat Marquis。 垫子，进展如何？

Mat: 垫：

Good, good, glad to be here.

好，好，很高兴来到这里。

Tim: 蒂姆：

So, for any of our listeners who do not know who you are, would you mind just telling us a little bit about yourself?

因此，对于我们任何不知道您是谁的听众，您介意告诉我们一些关于您自己的信息吗？

Mat: 垫：

Sure, I am an Open Web Engineer at Bocoup. I’m the chief noisemaker for the Responsive Issues Community Group — by which I mean, I’m not terribly bright or terribly talented, but I am very loud, and that is largely my role in that group. I’ve done a couple of An Event Aparts, I have a book coming up that I definitely didn’t mention just now … but be on the lookout for that thing I never brought up! Yeah, I keep busy.

当然，我是Bocoup的Open Web Engineer。 我是Responsive Issues Community Group (首席负责人 )的主要发出声音的人。我的意思是，我并不是很聪明，也不是非常有才华，但是我很响亮，在很大程度上，这就是我在该小组中的职责。 我已经完成了几次“ 事件分隔” ，即将出版的一本书我现在绝对没有提到过……但是要注意那些我从未提出过的东西！ 是的，我一直很忙。

David: 大卫：

Well, you didn’t mention your book, but I think we’re going to be asking you some more about it. But before we get to that, one question that we like to ask every one of our guests, since this is the Versioning Show: in your current career, what version are you, and why?

好吧，您没有提到您的书，但我想我们将向您询问更多有关这本书的信息。 但是在此之前，我们想向每一位客人询问一个问题，因为这是版本显示：您目前的职业是什么版本，为什么？

Mat: 垫：

O boy, o man, that’s a loaded question.

哦，男孩，哦，男人，这是一个充满挑战的问题。

I think the start of the career was at least version two of me, personally. Career-wise, I’ve got to be four or five — I mean, it’s like a Gmail perpetual beta thing, I think. But, at least the version’s ticking up over time.

我认为职业生涯至少是我的第二版。 从职业角度来看，我必须是四到五岁–我的意思是，这就像Gmail永久Beta版一样。 但是，至少随着时间的流逝，该版本的价格不断上涨。

David: 大卫：

I like that — the Gmail perpetual beta. I think in some senses we’re all in that Gmail perpetual beta.

我喜欢– Gmail永久测试版。 从某种意义上讲，我认为我们都处于该Gmail永久Beta版中。

Mat: 垫：

I’m a living bug-fix release: precious few features; a lot of stuff broken that’s less broken over time.

我是一个实时的错误修复版本：很少的功能； 很多坏的东西随着时间的流逝少了。

Tim [1:55]: 蒂姆[1:55] ：

So that’s very interesting. Do you want to speak a little bit about how you came into web development as a career?

所以这很有趣。 您想谈谈您是如何进入网络开发职业的吗？

Mat: 垫：

Yeah, I followed a pretty traditional route, which was web development by way of hitchhiking, following a failed career in professional carpentry — which I think is a pretty typical story for most of us. Yeah, I was in my early 20s … ish. It’s so long ago I’ve almost forgotten now.

是的，我遵循的是一条很传统的路线，那就是通过搭便车进行网络开发，之后是专业木工的失败生涯-我认为这对我们大多数人来说都是很典型的故事。 是的，我那时才20多岁。 很久以前，我几乎已经忘记了。

I started off in carpentry. Bottom kind of fell out from under that, so I ended up in retail for a couple years, which was just tops! [wry tone] I was a line cook a couple times; I was a bouncer for one ill-fated shift. At the end of my career (in retail), I was working in one of those cell-phone booths in a mall, where they yell at you as you walk by — Hey, we have free Razr phones!

我开始做木工。 从那下面跌倒了，所以我在零售业呆了几年，那简直是顶峰！ [苦涩的语气]我当过线厨师几次； 我是一个不幸的转变的保镖。 在我职业生涯的最后阶段(零售)，我在一个商场的手机亭中的一个工作，当您路过时，他们会向您吼叫- 嘿，我们有免费的Razr手机！

Yeah, so it was that era. And I gave up one day. Like, I was living in an illegal, two-bedroom apartment with five of us total, and I was scraping by paycheck to paycheck, and I just quit. I just threw my hands up, and I was, like — I’ve got nothing lined up, I don’t know where I’m going, but it’s not here. I’m out, I’m done, I’ll figure out the rest later.

是的，那是那个时代。 我放弃了一天。 就像，我当时住在一间非法的两居室公寓中，总共有五个人，我靠薪水拼凑着薪水，然后我辞职了。 我只是举起手来，当时我就像- 我什么都没排队，我不知道我要去哪里，但它不在这里。 我出去了，我完成了，以后再找出其余的。

So I bail, and at the end of my two weeks, I bought a big green backpack and I just started walking south. There’s a buddy of mine lives down at the time in Cape Coral-ish, Florida. And that was the furthest away of anyone I knew, so I just started walking.

所以我保释，两周后，我买了一个绿色的大背包，开始向南走。 当时，我的一个伙伴住在佛罗里达的珊瑚角海岸。 那是我认识的人最远的地方，所以我才开始走路。

And I hitchhiked around the east coast for about two months. I get down there, and I end up making a website for a woman he was dating at the time, because she was like — You know computers and stuff, right?

我在东海岸搭便车了大约两个月。 我到那儿去，最后我为那个当时正在约会的女人建立了一个网站，因为她就像- 你知道计算机和东西，对吗？

And I was like, well, I worked at CompUSA doing sales for a little while, so I can type, yeah. And, Could you make me a website?

我当时想，好吧，我在CompUSA工作了一段时间，所以我可以打字。 而且， 您能为我建立一个网站吗？

I was like, there’s only one way to find out. So I made this hot pink, table-based nightmare of a website. Bunch of people from back home pooled their money to fly me back, because they were like — You’re definitely going to be stabbed to death on your way back … and that was not strictly false.

我当时想，只有一种方法可以找出答案。 因此，我做了一个粉红色的，基于表的网站噩梦。 一群回到家的人聚集了钱让我飞回去，因为他们就像– 您在返回途中肯定会被刺死 ……这绝对不是错误的。

And yeah, I got back and I was like, I can’t do carpentry. I can’t just pick it up and restart a carpentry business. I’m not going back to retail, full stop. But I made a website that one time, so maybe I could do that.

是的，我回来了，当时我就像我不能做木工。 我不能只是拿起它并重新启动木工业务。 我不会再回到零售了，句号。 但是我曾经做过一个网站，所以也许我可以那样做。

Clunked around with some websites off craigslist for a while. I didn’t contact them, I just read the description, built it and threw it away. Just living off a little bit of money I was making from the website I built in Florida.

在craigslist之外的网站上徘徊了一段时间。 我没有联系他们，我只是阅读了说明，将其构建并丢弃。 只是靠我在佛罗里达州建立的网站赚到的钱过活。

David [4:28]: 大卫[4:28] ：

That’s interesting. So, in terms of your technical skills, you’re largely or completely self taught?

那很有意思。 那么，就您的技术技能而言，您是完全还是完全自学的？

Mat: 垫：

Completely, yeah, no degree, no nothing. Couple of O'Reilly books.

完全可以，没有学位，没有。 奥赖利夫妇的书。

David: 大卫：

It’s proof that you can learn a lot from from the public media and from what’s available out there — just from books and from self teaching. But I’m curious how you pushed yourself through to get to the point where you actually had the kind of skills that you could sell them to somebody.

有证据表明，您可以从公共媒体以及从现有的资源中学到很多东西–仅仅是书籍和自学。 但是我很好奇您如何推动自己前进，以至于您实际上拥有可以将其卖给某人的那种技能。

Mat: 垫：

That’s also unconventional, in my case. After a handful of craigslist pretend gigs, I started taking a couple for money, and they were like — install this PHP script, etc.

就我而言，这也是非常规的。 经过几次craigslist假装演出后，我开始花点钱来赚钱，他们就像-安装此PHP脚本等。

One of those was one of that same kind of set up; it was like a couple hours of work, and they contacted me after the fact and said — You seem like you’re kind of junior level, are you looking for an internship for school credit?

其中之一就是相同的设置之一。 这就像几个小时的工作，事后他们联系了我，说：“ 您似乎是初级程度的人才，您是否正在寻找实习机会以获得学分？

And I said, absolutely, yes, my school would love for you to give me an internship for credit for that school that I do not attend.

我说，绝对，是的，我的学校很希望您能给我一个实习机会，让我为我不上的那所学校提供学分。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

So yeah, I was there for like three months, and at the end of it they’re like — Weren’t we supposed to sign something — isn’t there some paperwork?

所以，是的，我在那里待了三个月，最后他们就像– 我们不应该签署一些东西吗–没有文书工作吗？

And I said, Yeah, no — about that, that was all a lie. Would you like to hire me for something?

我说， 是的，不，关于那，那全是谎言。 你想雇用我吗？

And they said, Yeah, okay, sure. This worked out all right, so why not?

他们说， 是的，好的。 一切正常，为什么不呢？

Tim: 蒂姆：

Bold strategy.

大胆的策略。

Mat: 垫：

Yeah, it’s a lot of dumb luck. So, I was there for a couple of years. Freelanced for a couple of years. Filament group for a couple years. And now Beaucoup for — I don’t know — a year a half.

是的，这真是愚蠢。 所以，我在那里呆了几年。 自由职业了几年。 灯丝组了两年。 现在，Beaucoup了-我不知道-半年了。

Tim [6:00]: 蒂姆[6:00] ：

It seems from your origin story — for me at least — it’s very motivating to go out and just do good stuff for the web in general. It helps people start careers and things like that — so that people can use it as a tool to just do good things in general. And I’ve noticed in your career, you’ve done a lot of good for the web, whether it be with responsive images or just performance or accessibility.

从您的起源故事看来-至少对我来说-外出并在整体上为网络做点好事非常有动力。 它可以帮助人们开始事业以及诸如此类的事情，以便人们可以将其作为一种工具来做一般的事情。 在您的职业生涯中，我注意到，无论是响应式图像还是性能或可访问性，您都为Web做好了很多工作。

Do you want to talk a little bit about that, and what keeps you going in that respect?

您想谈谈这件事吗，什么使您在这方面前进？

Mat: 垫：

I’m going to be honest — this may sound a little mercenary from the get go, and it’s taken a lot of explaining at work to kind of get around this philosophy toward the web — but I grew up blue collar. I grew up after that bouncing from job to job and getting whatever paychecks I could get. I very much approach this as a job. I’m not super passionate about typing in the startupy, passionate sense. And it kind of took a while for me to get right with that idea. Like I show up and it was like, all right, I can type for eight hours a day and then go home and have that be the end of it, and just do that, day in, day out once the novelty wears off. I’m getting paychecks and everything’s mediocre. But all this stuff is new enough that it’s not easy in any industry to build up a name — to get your name out there and gain a little bit of influence in this, that, and the other way.

我要说老实话-从一开始可能听起来有点佣人，并且在工作中花了很多解释才能将这种哲学带到网络上-但是我长大了。 从那份工作到另一份工作，我得到了所有我能得到的薪水，然后我长大了。 我非常重视这项工作。 我并不热衷于以富有开创性的热情打字。 我花了一段时间才弄清这个想法。 就像我露面一样，好吧，我每天可以打字八个小时，然后回家，直到结束，只要新颖性消失了，就可以日复一日地进行。 我正在领薪水，一切都很平庸。 但是，所有这些东西都是足够新的东西，以致于在任何行业中都很难树立起一个名字-要使您的名字声名远播，并以此或其他方式获得一点影响。

But this stuff is all pretty new, and everybody still just kind of figuring all of it out. And nobody was from what felt like a conventional background. This mainly kicked in when I was freelancing. I grew up with the sense of, whenever I would talk to somebody doing investment banking or something, that’s a planet I was not allowed to go to. That’s a life I didn’t make sense in.

但是这些东西都是相当新的东西，每个人仍然只是在弄清楚所有这些东西。 而且没有人来自传统背景。 这主要是在我自由职业时开始的。 我长大了，每当我和从事投资银行业务或某事的人交谈时，我都会被禁止进入这个星球。 那是我没有道理的生活。

This stuff is all so new, and everybody was from everywhere, and it was like, you know what, maybe this is it. Maybe I can get myself a job with a desk doing this. Maybe I can make a name out of this, and looking back I way overdid it. I was doing 14-hour days, and I was breaking my back, and a ton of it was privilege and a ton of it was luck, but I ended up in a pretty decent place. So, the first meaning I took from any of this was, I’m going to make it somewhere, I’m going to prove my upbringing wrong in some way.

这些东西是如此新奇，每个人都来自世界各地，就像，您知道什么，也许就是这样。 也许我可以自己在办公桌上找工作。 也许我可以以此为名，然后回想一下我已经过时了。 我每天工作14个小时，但我却不知所措，其中一吨是特权，一吨是运气，但最终我住在一个相当不错的地方。 因此，我从这一切中获得的第一个意思是，我要把它放在某个地方，我将以某种方式证明我的教养错误。

But once you start doing okay, that fades right out, and you’ve got nothing, you’re just typing eight hours a day. So at that point, it became — What am I going to do with this? What’s worth doing with this? Now that I have a little bit of a platform, now that I can make a little bit of noise and people will listen to me every once so often, what’s worth doing here?

但是一旦您开始做得很好，那就会消失，而您一无所获，您每天只需要输入八个小时。 因此，到那时，它变成了- 我该怎么办？ 这值得做什么？ 现在我有了一个平台，现在我可以发出一点声音，人们会经常听我一次，在这里值得做什么？

That’s kind of where I ended up: web standards for developers, performance, accessibility for users. That’s kind of the meaning I’ve decided on for this. Because otherwise I’m making a div show in the right place, and that’s not terribly fulfilling work. Hitting borders on stuff — not the most meaningful thing you can do day in, day out, but the idea that I can make something that literally anybody on the planet — people picking up their feature phones, just connecting to the web for the first time — I can make something they can read. That’s pretty big.

我最终就是这样：开发人员的Web标准，性能，用户的可访问性。 这就是我为此决定的含义。 因为否则我会将div显示在正确的位置，而这并不是十分令人满意的工作。 突破界限-不是每天都可以做的最有意义的事情，而是我可以制造出地球上几乎每个人都可以做的想法-人们拿起功能手机，只是第一次连接到网络-我可以做些他们可以阅读的东西。 很大

David [9:21]: 大卫[9:21] ：

Well, it sounds to me like you’ve moved past a mercenary stage in your career and into more of a tech philanthropy mode, in which you’re actually trying to help people. I’m not sure people are as familiar — they know the general term accessibility — but can you describe a little bit more what you were working on?

好吧，在我看来，您已经跨过了雇佣军阶段，进入了更多的技术慈善模式，您实际上是在尝试帮助人们。 我不确定人们是否熟悉-他们知道通用术语-可访问性，但是您能否描述一下您正在从事的工作？

Mat: 垫：

Around that time I became increasingly interested in that stuff. Like this feels like the direction I want things to go in, this feels like the direction I want to go in personally, career-wise. But I learned most of it at Filament Group. So, I showed up there, and it was great.

在那个时候，我对这些东西越来越感兴趣。 这样感觉就像我希望事情前进的方向，这感觉就像我想在职业生涯中个人前进的方向。 但是我在Filament Group中学到了很多。 所以，我出现在那，真是太好了。

I went into the interview, and John Resig was sitting two feet away from me, eating a meatball sub, so I’m mortified, and I’m like, [whispering] I also do jQuery!

我参加了面试，约翰·雷西格(John Resig)坐在离我2英尺的地方，吃着一个肉丸子，所以我很沮丧，我想， [窃窃私语] 我也使用jQuery！

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Yeah, I go in there and I say I’m really into accessibility, and I’m really into progressive enhancement. Performance wasn’t a huge issue at the time — the way it has become now — but I wouldn’t have put it past me to have an interest in it, and so when I went on board there, it was great — everybody speaking the same language.

是的，我走进那儿，我说我真的很喜欢可访问性，而且真的很喜欢渐进式增强。 当时的性能并不是一个大问题，它现在已经成为一种方式，但我不会对它感兴趣，因此，当我进入那里时，它很棒，每个人都在讲话相同的语言。

We’re all focused on accessibility, we’re all focused on progressive enhancement, and then, a little later on into it, responsive stuff. So that’s when I did a little bit of work for the jQuery UI team, early on. I did a lot more work for the jQuery Mobile team, and then, eventually, we ended up in The Boston Globe site, which was the big — Hey, we’re proving responsive can work on a large-scale site. Which led to — in a roundabout way — the whole responsive images effort, because that was when we just started thinking about smarter asset delivery.

我们所有人都专注于可访问性，我们都专注于渐进式增强，然后不久，便有了响应式的东西。 所以那是我尽早为jQuery UI团队做一些工作的时候。 我为jQuery Mobile团队做了很多工作，然后，最终，我们来到了波士顿环球报这个巨大的站点— 嘿，我们证明了自适应可以在大型站点上工作。 这导致了整个响应式图像工作量的回旋，因为那是我们刚刚开始考虑更智能的资产交付的时候。

We figured out how to make it stretchy, but how do we make the assets context appropriate?

我们想出了如何使其具有伸缩性，但是如何使资产环境合适呢？

David [11:02]: 大卫[11:02] ：

Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Because a lot of people have heard about responsive web development, responsive web design in general. Responsive images might be a term some people aren’t as familiar with.

您能告诉我更多有关此的信息吗？ 因为很多人都听说过响应式Web开发，所以响应式Web设计通常是这样。 响应式图像可能是一些人不熟悉的术语。

Mat: 垫：

Yeah, it’s pretty new stuff. Back over working on the Globe, in terms of making an image stretchy — very easy. You know, max-width: 100%, and then it goes from whatever size it needs to go to whatever other size and needs to go.

是的，这是很新的东西。 从使图像变得可拉伸的角度来看，回到地球上工作非常容易。 您知道max-width: 100% ，然后它从所需的任何大小变为其他所需的大小。

But even as far back as the Globe, that one-size-fits-all approach didn’t really cut it.

但是甚至早在Globe时，那种千篇一律的方法并没有真正削减它。

David: 大卫：

Well, they had to support Internet Explorer 6, I believe, so that wouldn’t have worked.

好吧，我相信他们必须支持Internet Explorer 6，所以那是行不通的。

Mat: 垫：

Yeah, we supported a crazy amount of stuff on that project — mostly by accident, which is always nice.

是的，我们在那个项目上支持了很多疯狂的事情-大多数是偶然的，这总是很好。

But yeah, not only in terms of the performance drawbacks — sending a massive image down the wire to everybody, whether or not they see any real benefit — but there wasn’t enough control for the Globe staff, who sometimes wanted to crop out images that better suited the smaller layout instead of just scaling one massive one down.

是的，不仅是在性能上的缺陷–通过有线方式向每个人发送大量图像，无论他们是否看到任何真正的好处–而且对于Globe员工没有足够的控制权，他们有时想裁剪图像更适合较小的布局，而不是缩小一个。

So, we came up with — I’ll call it a hack, over calling it a script — that used spacer GIFs and a cookie (no lie!) to swap out images depending on their context. It started with the smaller image, and on larger displays would swap it for a larger one, then set a cookie saying, Always give this the larger images.

因此，我们想到了-我称其为hack，而不是称之为脚本-使用间隔GIF和cookie(不要撒谎！)根据上下文交换图像。 它以较小的图片开始，在较大的显示器上将其替换为较大的图片，然后设置Cookie，说“ 始终为该图片提供较大的图片”。

And it completely fell apart — like right after the Globe launch — just because of super-aggressive prefetching in the browsers. It was like, there’s no way we can apply any logic before it fetches the images.

而且它完全崩溃了-就像在Globe刚发布之后一样-只是由于浏览器中的超级攻击性预取。 就像，我们无法在获取图像之前应用任何逻辑。

We ended up sitting down in a group, and we got a handful of people like Paul Irish, Jason Grigsby — a bunch of smart folks. And we started thinking, if we had a standards-based solution for this, what could that look like? And after a week or two of going back and forth, we were like, Hey, I think we have a pretty solid idea here. It was Bruce Lawson’s, originally — the one who proposed it.

我们最终坐在了一起，然后我们得到了像Paul Irish，Jason Grigsby这样的少数人-一堆聪明人。 然后我们开始考虑，如果我们有一个基于标准的解决方案，那会是什么样？ 经过一两个星期的来回回问，我们就像， 嘿，我认为我们在这里有了一个很明确的想法。 最初是布鲁斯·劳森(Bruce Lawson)提出的。

And the plan was, We now take this to the standards bodies, and they are going to be delighted with us!

计划是， 我们现在将其带到标准机构，他们将对我们感到满意！

David [13:09]: 大卫[13:09] ：

Of course! Their doors are open — they’re just waiting for somebody to come in and give them standards!

当然！ 他们的门是敞开的-他们只是在等待有人进来并给他们标准！

Mat: 垫：

Absolutely! Their motto is invented elsewhere, I believe — their main impetus.

绝对！ 我相信，他们的座右铭是在其他地方发明的 -他们的主要动力。

So yeah, we go in all smiles — Hey, we came up with this thing!

所以，是的，我们都面带微笑- 嘿，我们想到了这个东西！

And they immediately shut us down with, It is not your place to bring us solutions. It is your place to bring us problems that we may deign to serve them for you.

他们立即关闭我们， 这不是您带来我们解决方案的地方。 在您这里给我们带来问题，我们可能会为您服务。

[Ironically] I’m not still bitter about it or anything.

[具有讽刺意味的是，我对此并不感到痛苦。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

But fast forward, after two years of mailing list arguments and hashing out, I think we ended up on version three of the original responsive images proposal, which became itself a spec that we weren’t technically allowed to publish as a community group, but did anyway, as pirate radio.

但是很快，经过两年的邮件列表争论和讨论之后，我认为我们最终获得了原始响应式图像提案的第三版，该规范本身就成为了我们在技术上不允许作为社区团体发布的规范，但是无论如何，都是作为海盗广播电台 。

We ended up with responsive images in the browser. So we have solutions to all the problems we were trying to solve, as far back as the Globe project, and ongoing. What this means — I think it was Tim Kadlec who did the research across a whole bunch of sites — implementing some of these things meant about a 72% savings in transfer, across the Alexa top one hundred sites, or something like that.

我们最终在浏览器中获得了响应式图像。 因此，我们可以解决我们一直在试图解决的所有问题，这些问题可以追溯到Globe项目。 这意味着-我认为是Tim Kadlec在整个站点中进行了研究-实施其中的某些内容意味着在Alexa前一百个站点或类似站点中的传输节省了72％。

And that’s a pretty big dent to be able to put in the web itself. Images are still trending upwards in terms of transfer size, but it’s slowing down. And to be able to be part of a group that had that kind of influence over the fabric of the way the web is built — that’s a pretty big deal.

而且这本身就可以放入网络中。 图像在传输大小方面仍呈上升趋势，但正在放缓。 并且要成为对网络构建方式具有这种影响力的团队的一员，这是非常重要的。

David: 大卫：

So is this something that still exist outside of standards, or is this something that’s finally starting to work its way into standards?

那么这是否仍然存在于标准之外，还是最终开始应用到标准中？

Mat: 垫：

100% standardized now. It’s merged with the HTML5 spec — I think both versions. It is fully supported in every browser at present except for, I think, Microsoft Edge, which has most of the features.

现在100％标准化。 它与HTML5规范合并-我认为这两个版本。 我认为，除了具有大多数功能的Microsoft Edge之外，目前所有浏览器均完全支持该功能。

And, you know, the rest are coming soon. You can use a Polyfill. You don’t have to use a polyfill, which is a good position to be in, because it has a native fallback pattern.

而且，您知道，其余的即将推出。 您可以使用Polyfill。 您不必使用polyfill，因为它具有本机回退模式，因此这是个不错的位置。

Tim [15:20]: 蒂姆[15:20] ：

So, Mat, speaking to the struggle that you had to go through to get this thing out the door. Do you have any advice for people who feel like they might be up against some sort of similar challenge, wherein they’re trying to propose something they feel is better for either their job or the web in general, or a project they’re working on, but seem to be up against this massive amount of pushback?

因此，Mat在谈到为使这件事情顺利进行而必须经历的艰辛时。 对于那些觉得自己可能会遇到类似挑战的人们，您有什么建议吗？他们正在尝试提出自己认为对自己的工作或整个Web或正在开展的项目更有利的建议继续，但似乎要面对如此大量的回退？

Mat: 垫：

Sure. Standards-wise, I have a hard time saying, Sure, get involved in standards, it’s great fun, because it’s not all that fun. But, almost more than us having stretchy images, we’ve now kind of set a precedent. There wasn’t a lot of precedent outside of the WHAT Working Group itself for a group of like-minded developers to come together and pick a fight and actually gain some traction in web standards.

当然。 在标准方面，我很难说： 当然，参与标准非常有趣，因为它并不是那么有趣。 但是，与拥有可伸缩图像相比，我们几乎已经树立了先例。 在WHAT工作组之外，没有太多的先例可以让一群志趣相投的开发人员齐心协力，展开一场战斗，并实际上在Web标准中获得一些关注。

The Community Group’s model isn’t perfect, but we made something out of it. You know what I mean? So if you were a standards-minded developer, you could start up a community group, you can join an existing related community group, you can go out you can actually pitch stuff and have yourself be heard.

社区小组的模型并不完美，但是我们从中得出了一些东西。 你知道我的意思？ 因此，如果您是一个具有标准意识的开发人员，则可以创建一个社区小组，可以加入现有的相关社区小组，可以出去玩，实际上可以推销自己的东西并被别人听到。

The WICG — Web Incubator Community Group — is now a community group that’s dedicated to getting developers' voices heard. And they have a Discourse forum. So you’re not locked into a mailing list from 1985, trying to get work done. You can actually join on this website, and you get email notifications and stuff, and it’s just a forum.

WICG(Web孵化器社区小组 )现在是一个社区小组，致力于让开发人员听到自己的声音。 并且他们有一个Discourse论坛 。 因此，您从1985年开始就没有被锁定到邮件列表中，无法完成工作。 您实际上可以加入此网站，并且会收到电子邮件通知和其他内容，而这只是一个论坛。

You don’t need a thousand-dollar subscription to, or a membership to, the W3C. You can just say Hey, I have an idea, I have a good idea. Who thinks this is a good idea too?

您不需要W3C的千美元订阅或会员资格。 您可以说嘿，我有个主意，我有个好主意。 谁认为这也是一个好主意？

I had a soapbox — a lot of this is privilege. I could ask people via DM, Hey, help me get the word out about this thing. But things have improved some there. And, worst-case scenario, let me be the person you DM to help get the word out there — if you’re a developer, and you need to make some noise about a potential standard.

我有一个肥皂盒-其中很多是特权。 我可以通过DM问人们， 嘿，帮我弄清楚这件事。 但是那里的情况有所改善。 而且，在最坏的情况下，请允许我成为您的DM经理，以帮助您广为人知-如果您是一名开发人员，则需要对潜在的标准打个招呼。

David [17:32]: 大卫[17:32] ：

That’s very nice. And you still have a big soapbox, and I’m curious what you see as the next challenge that you want to be taking on.

这是非常好的。 而且您仍然有一个很大的肥皂盒，我很好奇您将看到的下一个挑战。

Mat: 垫：

O — heel turn, 100%! I am going to turn super evil.

O-脚跟转弯，100％！ 我将变成超级邪恶。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Just go full corruption, and just wreck web standards altogether, and then some enterprising young developer will have to unseat me — I think that’s probably the plan.

只是完全腐败，彻底破坏Web标准，然后一些进取心的年轻开发人员将不得不让我失望—我认为这可能是计划。

David: 大卫：

It’s all going to be Java applets for hover effects, right?

都是Java小程序的悬浮效果，对不对？

Mat: 垫：

Mission critical Flash intros, as far as the eye can see — that’s my plan.

据我所知，关键任务Flash影片介绍就在眼前。

Tim: 蒂姆：

And that’s just step one, right?

那只是第一步，对不对？

Mat: 垫：

Yeah, it’s World War domination. It starts with Flash intros, and then I’ll figure out the rest.

是的，这是世界大战的统治。 它从Flash简介开始，然后我会找出其余的内容。

Well, no, I mean I’ve been talking. As much as I’m loath to keep saying it, I feel like there is a new fight to be picked in container queries. And we started it a little bit, with the Responsive Issues Community Group (which was formally the Responsive Images Community Group). And exactly like you said, now we have a soapbox — now that we have a little bit of skin in the game — it wouldn’t make sense to just pack up and go home. We have stretching images, let’s abandon web standards now, now that we’ve gained some power.

好吧，不，我是说我一直在讲话。 尽管我一直不愿说这句话，但我感觉容器查询中有新的选择。 然后，我们从“响应性问题”社区小组(正式称为“响应性图像”社区小组)开始了这一工作。 就像您说的那样，现在我们有了一个肥皂盒-现在我们在游戏中有一些皮肤了-只收拾行李回家就没有意义了。 现在，我们已经有了一些强大的功能，我们可以拉伸图像，现在就放弃Web标准。

So the plan instead — we became the Responsive Issues Community Group. And so we kind of put it out there — Hey, what’s bugging you? What can we do now? Now that we’re here, now that we’re allowed to sit at the same table, what do we do?

因此，该计划改为-我们成为响应问题社区小组。 所以我们有点把它放在那里了- 嘿，您在烦什么？ 我们现在能做什么？ 现在我们在这里，现在我们被允许坐在同一张桌子旁，我们该怎么办？

And it was like, almost unanimously, We need a smarter way of handling media queries, so that we can style modules based on their containing element, not based on the viewport size as a proxy for how something fits in a layout.

这就好像，几乎是一致的， 我们需要一种更聪明的方式来处理媒体查询，以便我们可以根据模块的包含元素(而不是基于视口大小)来对模块进行样式设置，以作为布局中内容的代理。

So that’s container queries. And I wrote an article for A List Apart about it, which was just following the template we did with responsive images — where it’s like, write a couple of blog posts, write an article for a big publication, start making a little bit of noise, see what developer interest is.

这就是容器查询。 我为此写了一篇关于A List Apart的文章 ，它只是遵循我们对响应图像所做的模板-就像，写一些博客文章，为大型出版物写文章，开始有点喧noise ，请参阅开发人员的兴趣所在。

And developer interest is very, very active for this, I would say. A quick Twitter search for container queries — you’re going to turn up a ton of people like Why don’t we have this yet?

我会说，开发人员对此非常感兴趣。 在Twitter上快速搜索容器查询 -您将吸引大量的人，例如我们为什么还没有呢？

But Google’s official word on it was, “We’re going to give you access to a bunch of low-level CSS APIs, so you can build your own stuff to do this. So it was almost a wait-and-see thing. That does sound pretty good. I have some issues with the idea of needing JavaScript to handle CSS stuff, but I don’t not want access to those APIs, so let’s see where this goes.

但是Google的官方说法是：“我们将为您提供一堆低级CSS API的访问权限，因此您可以构建自己的东西来做到这一点。 因此，这几乎是一个观望的事情。 这确实音质还不错。 我有一些问题需要用JavaScript来处理CSS的东西的想法，但我不不希望访问这些API，让我们看到这个去。

Tim [20:04]: 蒂姆[20:04] ：

So, just to clarify real quick, you’re talking about the Houdini project?

因此，为了澄清真实情况，您是在谈论Houdini项目吗？

Mat: 垫：

Yes. But the more I think about it, and the more I hear No, we really need container queries, it really feels like something that needs to be done at the browser level. And I’m not arguing with access with those APIs, because I want any browser API access I can get. But I don’t think that’s the end all, be all.

是。 但是，我思考的越多，听到的声音越多，我们确实需要容器查询 ，这确实感觉需要在浏览器级别完成。 而且，我不反对使用这些API进行访问，因为我希望我能获得任何浏览器API访问权限。 但是我不认为这就是结局。

So things have been a little quiet while we waited to see how the Houdini stuff played out. But I think it’s probably time to start shopping container queries at the browser level around again.

因此，当我们等待看Houdini玩法如何发挥作用时，情况变得有些安静。 但是我认为可能是时候再次在浏览器级别开始购物容器查询了。

David: 大卫：

So, what level of technical sophistication do you think people should have before they get at this stage? You’re self taught, and you know that these things were happening, and you had to learn what you needed to know.

那么，您认为人们在此阶段应该具备什么技术水平？ 您是自学成才的，并且知道这些事情正在发生，并且您必须学习需要了解的内容。

How comfortable should people be getting involved in this?

人们应该对此有多舒服？

Mat: 垫：

Ideally, we have an accurate cross-section of all skill levels represented here. You know what I mean?

理想情况下，我们具有此处代表的所有技能水平的准确横截面。 你知道我的意思？

Putting together the responsive images markup, there were a bunch of syntaxes that appealed to me, but I’d been doing strictly responsive work for years at that point. They might not’ve been very friendly to somebody just joining for the first time — somebody just learning to write markup in the first place. They might not’ve made a lot of sense.

将响应式图像标记放在一起，有很多语法吸引了我，但是那时我已经在严格响应式工作了多年了。 他们可能对刚加入的人不是很友好-刚开始学习写标记的人。 他们可能没有多大意义。

We need those voices represented way more than mine. So, for the container query stuff, it’s the same thing. Any level of familiarity with CSS, no required familiarity with the standards process. That needs to be fixed to accommodate us, not the other way around.

我们需要这些声音所代表的方式超过我的。 因此，对于容器查询而言，这是相同的。 熟悉CSS的任何水平，不需要熟悉标准流程。 需要解决这一问题以适应我们，而不是相反。

David: 大卫：

I’m really glad you clarified that, because I think that this could be a wonderful learning opportunity for people at all stages in their careers.

我很高兴您澄清这一点，因为我认为这对于在职业生涯各个阶段的人们来说都是一次绝佳的学习机会。

Mat: 垫：

Yeah, for sure, and that’s something I was immensely proud of with the RICG. Every single member’s name went on that spec. We had people submitting their first ever pull requests to change text that went into the HTML5 specification, and that’s huge. How many opportunities do you get to do that?

是的，毫无疑问，这是我为RICG感到非常自豪的。 每个成员的姓名都遵循该规范。 我们让人们提交了他们的第一个拉取请求，以更改进入HTML5规范的文本，这是巨大的。 您有多少机会做到这一点？

So, ideally, I’d like to follow the same path with the container queries thing. I’d like everybody involved — as many people as we can get. Unless — and this is important — you disagree with me.

因此，理想情况下，我想对容器查询使用相同的路径。 我希望每个人都参与其中-我们将吸引尽可能多的人。 除非 (这很重要)， 否则您不同意我的看法。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Because, again, I am gonna turn full evil at some point, and I’m gonna be a ruthless dictator of the RICG.

因为，再次，我将在某个时候变得完全邪恶，并且我将成为RICG的残酷独裁者。

But you’ve probably got a couple months yet before that happens.

但是您可能还需要几个月的时间才能实现。

Tim [22:18]: 提姆[22:18] ：

You have some time.

你有时间

So, Mat, speaking to container queries, real quick. Have you heard anything about — I guess it’s a trick at this point — using the CSS calc property and min-width/max-width values to sort of fake container queries with CSS?

因此，Mat，谈到容器查询，很快就可以了。 您是否听说过-我想这是一个技巧-使用CSS calc属性和min-width / max-width值对CSS进行假容器查询？

Mat: 垫：

I have not.

我没有 。

Tim: 蒂姆：

So there’s an interesting technique going around. I think you can find a few CodePen demos, one of which I’m going to find and post into the show notes. But from what I’ve heard — and I’m not sure if it’s an actual container query — but I’ve heard that you can use a combination of the CSS calc property and min-width/max-width values to basically say — I’m not going be able to explain this, because it’s way too complicated for me, but it is something I’ve heard about. I was wondering if you’ve heard of it, but I’m definitely going to post a link in to the show notes. And yeah, that’s really all I got — not very constructive, but that’s that.

因此，存在一种有趣的技术。 我认为您可以找到一些CodePen演示，我将找到其中的一个并将其发布到展示笔记中。 但是根据我所听到的-我不确定这是否是一个实际的容器查询-但我听说您可以结合使用calc属性和min-width / max-width值来基本说出-我无法解释这一点，因为它对我来说太复杂了，但这是我听说过的。 我想知道您是否听说过，但是我肯定会在展示笔记中发布一个链接。 是的，那确实是我所拥有的-并不是很有建设性，但是仅此而已。

Mat: 垫：

See, the more of that stuff I have at my disposal, the better, I think.

看，我拥有的东西越多，我认为越好。

It’s especially good when — like responsive images — some of the solutions people come up with are buck-wild ridiculous. Because that’s fodder, where we can go to standards bodies and be like, Look what we’re trying to do. Look at the hoops we have to jump through to make this happen. This just needs to be solved.

当人们想到的某些解决方案(如响应式图像)荒谬可笑时，这特别好。 因为那是饲料，所以我们可以去标准机构看看 ， 看看我们要做什么。 看看要实现这一目标，我们必须跳过去。 这只是需要解决。

And the other thing is, people need stopgaps. So for responsive images, that’s how picturefill came about — where it was like, We know you need this now; here, use this in the mean time. We’ll also use this to prove that we need this in a larger sense.

另一件事是，人们需要权宜之计。 因此，对于响应式图像，这就是Picturefill的产生方式 -就像这样， 我们知道您现在需要它； 在这里，请同时使用。 我们还将使用它来证明我们在更大的意义上需要它。

So solutions like that — the more of those we can shop around, and get people’s opinions on, and get people using — I think that goes a long the way toward furthering this stuff.

因此，像这样的解决方案-我们可以在其中购物，获得更多人的意见并吸引人们使用的解决方案，更多-我认为这对于进一步推广这些材料将有很大帮助。

Tim: 蒂姆：

So, how can people find you, and help out with stuff, and follow you on Twitter?

那么，人们如何找到您并提供帮助，并在Twitter上关注您？

Mat: 垫：

I’m going to be honest, I’m the worst. The best way to get ahold of me in any possible respect is on Twitter at this point — that’s that’s who I’ve become in my adult life. And that’s @wilto — W-I-L-T-O, based on an old high school nickname that stuck for reasons I never understand.

老实说，我是最糟糕的。 在任何可能的方面联系我的最好方法就是在Twitter上进行，这就是我成年后成为的人。 那就是@wilto — WILTO，它基于一个我从未理解的原因而坚持的古老的高中昵称。

That’s a funny story. Hit me up on Twitter, and I’ll tell you. Other than that, I’m Wilto on GitHub, Wilto pretty much everywhere. It’s not even a word, so it’s easy to find. But yeah, I’d say if anybody want to get’s ahold of me to talk any standard stuff — anything we’ve brought up here today — @wilto on Twitter.

那是一个有趣的故事。 在Twitter上打我，我会告诉你。 除此之外，我Wilto GitHub上，Wilto几乎无处不在。 它甚至都不是一个字，因此很容易找到。 但是，是的，我想说的是，如果有人想让我谈论任何标准的东西–我们今天在这里提出的任何东西– @wilto在Twitter上。

David [24:49]: 大卫[24:49] ：

Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us, and for sharing all of this with our listeners. I think that we all learned a lot today.

太棒了 非常感谢您加入我们，并与我们的听众分享所有这一切。 我认为我们今天都学到了很多东西。

Mat: 垫：

I appreciate you having me.

我感谢你有我。

---

---

David: 大卫：

So, Tim, that was a really amazing interview. And I think you have an advantage over me, because I think you’ve actually worked with Mat before, right?

蒂姆，那真是一次了不起的采访。 而且我认为您比我有优势，因为我认为您之前实际上已经与Mat合作过，对吗？

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yes, actually. So, it’s funny that Mat spoke a lot about how you can contact him on Twitter, because that’s exactly how we started working together.

是的，实际上。 因此，Mat谈到了如何在Twitter上与他联系的方式很有趣，因为这正是我们开始合作的方式。

So what happened was, Mat was working on the responsive image specification. And around the same time that started to get really big, I was doing some work in WordPress, and I found that if I wrote some bad PHP in a specific way, I could actually get a full picture tag from a WordPress image call, basically. Because WordPress returns all the versions of the image that you upload.

因此发生了什么事，Mat正在研究响应式图像规范。 在差不多开始变大的同时，我正在WordPress中做一些工作，我发现如果我以特定的方式编写了一些不良PHP，我实际上可以从WordPress图像调用中获得完整的picture标签，基本上。 因为WordPress返回您上传的图像的所有版本。

So, in the background, when you upload an image on WordPress, it uses a library called ImageMagick to make several different sizes of the image that you’ve uploaded. And you can actually get that back. So I made a little bit of a PHP script to do that, and then I was like, Man, I’ve got this thing. Let me contact Chris Coyier of CSS-Tricks, who writes a lot of WordPress articles, and see if he’s interested in maybe writing about how this is a possibility.

因此，在后台，当您在WordPress上上传图像时，它使用一个名为ImageMagick的库来制作已上传图像的几种不同大小。 您实际上可以将其收回。 所以我做了一些PHP脚本来做到这一点，然后我就像， 曼，我已经有了这个东西。 让我联系CSS-Tricks的Chris Coyier，他撰写了许多WordPress文章，并看看他是否有兴趣撰写这种可能性的文章。

And so he was — and he was actually interested in me writing for him about it as a possibility. So him and I worked together to make it an actual plugin — available on GitHub, not on WordPress — and we co-authored an article for CSS-Tricks about it. And, eventually, we had this small following, and one day Mat Marquis tweeted about how they had just integrated responsive images as a core feature on Drupal, and he’s like, Let’s do it on WordPress.

所以他是 -并且他实际上对我 为他写这本书的可能性感兴趣。 因此，他和我共同努力使它成为一个实际的插件—在GitHub上可用，而不在WordPress上可用–我们共同撰写了一篇有关CSS-Tricks的文章。 最终，我们得到了这么小的追随者，有一天，马特·马奎斯(Mat Marquis)发了一条推文，说他们是如何将响应式图像作为Drupal的核心功能集成在一起的，他想， 让我们在WordPress上做到这一点。

And I tweeted back, because I had known about him, and I was like, Yeah, I have this thing, I’d love to help. And he was like, Okay.

然后我发了推文，因为我已经了解他了，我当时想， 是的，我有这件事，我很乐意提供帮助。 他就像， 好吧。

And then, a few weeks later, I was a member of the RICG GitHub organization, and I had a meeting scheduled with all of the founders of WordPress, and I was in way over my head, just working on making this a thing.

然后，几周后，我成为了RICG GitHub组织的成员，并且安排了一次与WordPress的所有创始人开会的会议，而我正忙得不可开交，只是致力于使这件事成为现实。

And then, from there, it was about a year-long process — maybe a year to six months (timeline’s a little bit fuzzy) — and eventually we got responsive images into WordPress Core.

然后，从那里开始，大约需要一年的时间-大约一年到六个月(时间线有些模糊)-最终我们将响应式图像放入WordPress Core。

David [27:19]: 大卫[27:19] ：

That is amazing. It’s like a fairytale story, because you went from just I’ve heard of something, I’ve got an idea to This is reality, and I’m working with the people who are building it for the world.

这是惊人的。 这就像一个童话故事，因为您从我听说过的东西开始，就已经有了一个主意 ， 这就是现实，并且我正在与为这个世界而建的人们一起工作。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, it was it was pretty amazing. I most of the time felt like the mouse in the room, listening to these people who have built these amazing things talk about how we can get my code into WordPress Core. Which is funny, because I don’t think any of the original code that I wrote actually landed in. But I did get to write a little bit of it, and see it progress and turn into this really amazing sort of thing. So that was an exciting experience.

是的，那真是太神奇了。 大部分时间，我感觉就像房间里的鼠标一样，听这些构建了这些惊人东西的人谈论如何将我的代码导入WordPress Core。 这很有趣，因为我认为我写的任何原始代码实际上都没有。但是我确实写了一点，然后看到它的进展，并变成了一件非常了不起的事情。 因此，这是一次令人兴奋的经历。

David: 大卫：

That is amazing. And sometimes I think it’s easy to forget that these standards and these things — they’re just people, and people with ideas, making projects and putting them out there. And if it’s really good, it sticks, and that’s what happens — that’s how these people get to that level.

这是惊人的。 有时候，我认为很容易忘记这些标准和这些东西–它们只是人，还有想法，制定项目并将其付诸实践的人。 如果真的很棒，它就会坚持下去，这就是发生的事情，这就是这些人达到这一水平的方式。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. And speaking of that, it seems like Mat has a really good way of remembering that. Because his story of how he came to work on the web is probably one of the more astounding that I’ve heard. It always reminds me — what I’m doing with my career and with my life: maybe I can get some good out of it to help other people.

是的，当然。 谈到这一点，Mat似乎有记住它的一种非常好的方法。 因为他关于他如何在网络上工作的故事可能是我所听到的更令人震惊的故事之一。 它总是让我想起-我在职业和生活中正在做的事情：也许我可以从中受益，以帮助他人。

But I feel like Mat’s story is a very good reminder for me that it’s about people. It’s important to help others in that respect to get things out there and make a name for themselves in their career. And it’s very refreshing to hear someone that is not just thinking about the next IPO.

但是我觉得Mat的故事让我很想起它是关于人的。 重要的是要帮助其他人将事情发扬光大，并在自己的职业生涯中声名大噪。 听到有人不只是在考虑下一次IPO，这真是令人耳目一新。

David [29:07]: 大卫[29:07] ：

He also brought a very important point, which is how really new everything that we’re doing is. It’s not like there’s a path in front of us and it’s very clear what direction we’re going to go in. People can come up with a completely off-the-wall idea that solves their problem — that scratches their itch — and maybe there’s somebody else out there can help. And you can follow that altruistic spirit to put something out there, and stand behind it, and support it, and follow other people who are doing the same thing and gain followers who are working with you. It’s amazing that we’re living and working in a field and at a time when so much is changing so quickly.

他还提出了一个非常重要的观点，那就是我们正在做的每件事实际上是多么新颖。 这并不像我们面前有条路，而且很清楚我们要走的方向。人们可以想出一个彻底解决问题的思路，以解决他们的问题(挠痒痒)，也许那里的其他人可以提供帮助。 然后，您可以遵循这种无私的精神，将某些东西摆放在那里，站在它后面并提供支持，并跟随其他在做相同事情的人，并吸引与您一起工作的追随者。 令人惊奇的是，我们正在一个领域中生活和工作，而这时变化是如此之快。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. And to all the web developers out there, and designers, and UX individuals — who are just getting started — it’s important to remember something I often forget. Like you said, David, it is so new, and regardless of how you feel, if you ever feel like everything’s been done, it hasn’t. There’s still so much more to do and further to go, and there’s so many boundaries to push and break forward, that it’s just a good thing to remember that there is still a crazy amount of good things and new and creative things left to be done on the web.

是的，当然。 对于刚刚起步的所有Web开发人员，设计师和UX个人，记住我经常忘记的东西很重要。 就像您说的那样，大卫， 它太新了 ，不管您的感觉如何，如果您觉得一切都完成了，那就还没有。 还有更多的事情要做，还有更多的事情要做，还有太多的边界要突破和突破，记住，还有很多疯狂的美好事物和新的创造性的事情要做，这是一件好事在网上。

And because of the nature of the web, I’m not so sure that there will ever not be endless amount of new things and new projects and just exciting web features to come out in the future.

而且由于网络的性质，我不太确定将来会不会出现无数的新事物和新项目以及令人兴奋的网络功能。

David: 大卫：

Absolutely. At the very least, we’re going to have to respond when Mat turns evil.

绝对。 至少，当Mat变得邪恶时，我们将不得不做出响应。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, we could form a giant coalition.

是的，我们可以组成一个庞大的联盟。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

David: 大卫：

One of the things you mentioned — and it ties back into what Mat mentioned — was this feeling of being the tiny little fly on the wall in this room full of giants. But one of the things I really like that Mat said was how important it is, in the type of work that he’s doing, to get people from all skill levels — from the most sophisticated, experienced engineers, to the person who’s trying to cobble together little pieces of scripts from other websites and stick them together and make what is going to work, work for the users.

您提到的一件事-并与马特提到的内容联系在一起-是这种感觉，就像是在这间装满巨人的房间里的墙上的小苍蝇。 但是我真正喜欢Mat的一件事是，在他正在从事的工作类型中，让各个技能水平的人(从最老练，经验丰富的工程师到试图拼凑在一起的人)非常重要来自其他网站的少量脚本，并将它们组合在一起，使要运行的内容对用户有用。

Because, that perspective — I don’t think that we realize it. I think we all we all might have a tendency to have impostor syndrome about whether we can be involved in these efforts, but I think every voice needs to be heard.

因为，这种观点-我认为我们没有意识到。 我认为我们所有人都可能倾向于冒名顶替综合症，即我们是否可以参与这些努力，但我认为需要倾听每一个声音。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. And as someone who also came from a non-traditional background, where I didn’t go to school for computer science or anything, it’s a good reminder that I also came from that environment where I had no idea what I was doing. And just remembering that reminds me to go out of my way to ensure that anybody else in that position gets their voice heard and has an opportunity to learn more about the field.

是的，当然。 And as someone who also came from a non-traditional background, where I didn't go to school for computer science or anything, it's a good reminder that I also came from that environment where I had no idea what I was doing. And just remembering that reminds me to go out of my way to ensure that anybody else in that position gets their voice heard and has an opportunity to learn more about the field.

David [32:06]: David [32:06] :

We should do a survey of our listeners and find out. You and I are both non-computer-science majors working in tech. We were talking with Mat, who’s also a non-computer-science guy also working in tech. He’s putting out standards.

We should do a survey of our listeners and find out. You and I are both non-computer-science majors working in tech. We were talking with Mat, who's also a non-computer-science guy also working in tech. He's putting out standards.

I’m curious about the listeners for the show, because I know a lot of people learn what they need to know from places like SitePoint, and just pick up the tools that they need and go out there and do things. And it’s lovely to be living in a time when that’s possible.

I'm curious about the listeners for the show, because I know a lot of people learn what they need to know from places like SitePoint, and just pick up the tools that they need and go out there and do things. And it's lovely to be living in a time when that's possible.

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, I’d definitely be interested in seeing what that data looks like.

Yeah, I'd definitely be interested in seeing what that data looks like.

David: 大卫：

Well, I think this was a really interesting interview, and I’m looking forward to hearing the feedback from listeners. I really hope that you folks get in touch with Mat and follow up, because it sounds like he really is looking for people to help with what he’s doing.

Well, I think this was a really interesting interview, and I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback from listeners. I really hope that you folks get in touch with Mat and follow up, because it sounds like he really is looking for people to help with what he's doing.

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely.

是的，当然。

---

---

Well, thank you so much for listening, everybody. We always enjoy getting to talk technology with all of you.

好，非常感谢大家的倾听。 我们总是喜欢与大家交谈技术。

David: 大卫：

We would also like to thank SitePoint.com, and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat. Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @versioningshow — and give us a rating on iTunes.

我们还要感谢SitePoint.com以及我们的制片人Adam Roberts和Ophelie Lechat。 Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @versioningshow — and give us a rating on iTunes .

Let us know how we’re doing.

让我们知道我们的状况。

Tim: 蒂姆：

We’ll see you next time, and we hope you enjoyed this version.

下次见，我们希望您喜欢这个版本。

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/versioning-show-episode-2-with-mat-marquis/