Episode 60 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week, your hosts Patrick O’Keefe (@iFroggy) and Brad Williams (@williamsba) interview Paul Boag of Boagworld and Headscape about web design, podcasting, book writing, and getting design signoff.
SitePoint Podcast的 第60集现已发布！ 本周，您的主持人Patrick O'Keefe( @iFroggy )和Brad Williams( @williamsba )采访了Boagworld和Headscape的 Paul Boag ， 他们涉及网页设计，播客，书籍写作以及获得设计批准。
下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #60: Entering Boag’s World with Paul Boag(MP3, 53:30, 49MB)SitePoint Podcast＃60：与Paul Boag进入Boag的世界(MP3，53:30，49MB)
面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)
Patrick: May 7th, 2010. We chat with Paul Boag of Boagworld and Headscape about web design, podcasting, book writing, and getting design signoff. This is the SitePoint Podcast #60: Entering Boag’s World with Paul Boag.
帕特里克： 2010年5月7日。我们与Boagworld和Headscape的Paul Boag聊聊网页设计，播客，书籍写作和获得设计批准。 这是SitePoint播客60：与Paul Boag一起进入Boag的世界。
Hello and welcome to another edition of the SitePoint Podcast. This is Patrick O’Keefe and I’m joined today by Brad Williams as we interview Paul Boag. Paul is the co-host of the extremely popular web design and development podcast, Boagworld, and the author of Website Owners Manual, which is a great book aimed at those who are organizationally responsible for the planning, launch, and management of a website. He’s also the creative director at Headscape, a UK based web design company. In addition to serving clients, they also have created Get Signoff, a product aimed at helping web designers to more easily gain client approval, and build better client relationships.
您好，欢迎使用SitePoint播客的另一版本。 这是帕特里克·奥基夫(Patrick O'Keefe)，今天与布拉德·威廉姆斯(Brad Williams)一同参加采访保罗·博亚格(Paul Boag)的活动。 Paul是极为流行的Web设计和开发播客Boagworld的共同主持人，并且是《 网站所有者手册》的作者，这本书是一本非常出色的书籍，专门针对那些组织上负责网站的规划，启动和管理的人员。 他还是英国网页设计公司Headscape的创意总监。 除了为客户提供服务外，他们还创建了Get Signoff ，该产品旨在帮助Web设计师更轻松地获得客户的认可并建立更好的客户关系。
Without further ado, let’s bring Paul on.
事不宜迟，让我们继续保罗。
Patrick: Welcome to the show, Paul. It’s great to have you on.
帕特里克：欢迎参加演出，保罗。 祝您旅途愉快。
Paul: It’s good to be on, thank you for having me. It seems like forever. I don’t think I’ve been on this one yet and that’s not good enough. You need to get me on every podcast that has ever mentioned anything to do with web design ever.
保罗：很高兴继续前进，谢谢你有我。 似乎永远。 我认为我还没有参加过，这还不够好。 您需要让我进入任何曾经提及与Web设计有关的播客。
Patrick: Well, this is the last one, I think, in existence that you haven’t been on yet to date unless someone starts one.
帕特里克：嗯，这是我认为的最后一个，除非有人开始，否则到目前为止您还没有见过。
Paul: I’m sure someone will before long. I think Jeffrey Zeldman started one, isn’t he?
保罗：我相信不久以后就会有人。 我认为杰弗里·扎德曼(Jeffrey Zeldman)开始了，不是吗？
Patrick: Well, I don’t know but I imagine that you should be in the first line up of guests.
帕特里克：嗯，我不知道，但我想你应该是第一批来宾的。
Paul: I flippin’ better be – I’ll have words, otherwise. Good to be on, thank you for inviting me.
保罗：我最好别这样-否则我会说。 很好，谢谢您邀请我。
Brad: Yeah Paul, so you run the Boagworld podcast, which is arguably probably one of the top podcasts for web design, if not the top. What was the kind of inspiration behind starting that podcast?
布拉德：是的，保罗，所以您运行Boagworld播客，可以说，它可能是Web设计的顶级播客之一，即使不是顶级的。 开始播客的灵感是什么？
Paul: Knitting was the inspiration. It’s true – it’s the truth. Basically, what happened was is the iPod started supporting podcasts, so I immediately set off to iTunes, having a look for a web design one – “seems a logical thing to do,” I thought. It’s a techie tool – podcasting – so there’s bound to be lots of techie podcasts. What I discovered is that there was nothing on web design whatsoever and the closest thing that I could see was This Week in Tech and things like that. There wasn’t anything on web design, which struck me as very bizarre. Bizarrer still with the fact that there was a podcast on knitting and it appalled me that there could be a podcast on knitting and not one on web design so I decided to take control of the situation and produce my own.
保罗：针织是灵感。 是的，这是事实。 基本上，发生的事情是iPod开始支持播客，所以我立即着手前往iTunes，寻找一种网页设计–“我觉得这很合逻辑”。 这是一个技术员工具-播客-因此必然会有很多技术员播客。 我发现，网页设计上没有任何东西，而我能看到的最接近的东西是“ 本周技术”之类的东西。 网页设计上没有任何东西，这让我感到非常奇怪。 Bizarrer仍然有一个关于针织的播客，这让我感到震惊，因为我可能有一个关于针织的播客，而不是关于网页设计的播客，所以我决定控制情况并制作自己的。
I think the reason really for the success of Boagworld and the fact that it’s arguably the biggest web design podcast is simply because it was the first. There was nothing else out there and I didn’t know when to give up. So yeah, it was all because of knitting.
我认为Boagworld成功的真正原因以及它可以说是最大的Web设计播客的事实仅仅是因为它是第一个。 那里什么也没有，我不知道什么时候放弃。 是的，这全都是因为编织。
Patrick: I take it you don’t have any interest in knitting?
帕特里克：我认为您对针织没有兴趣吗？
Paul: None whatsoever. My wife recently tried to take it up and I was so appalled that somebody in her 30s would take up knitting, that I banned her from doing it. Disgraceful – it’s for old people, not for young people. I’m now going to get… “Aww! She just hit me!”
保罗：没什么。 我妻子最近试图拿起它，令我震惊的是，她30多岁的人会开始编织，以至于我禁止她这样做。 丢脸的–是给老年人的，而不是给年轻人的。 我现在要得到……“噢！ 她只是打我！
Patrick: Yeah, that’s some control you have in your household if you can ban knitting.
帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，如果您可以禁止编织，那就是您家庭中的一些控制权。
Paul: Yeah, I’ve banned knitting, is not allowed. She is muttering in the background, I apologize for this unprofessional interview, please carry on.
保罗：是的，我禁止编织，是不允许的。 她在后台喃喃自语，对于这次不专业的采访我深表歉意，请继续。
Patrick: No, I enjoy the background noise.
帕特里克：不，我喜欢背景噪音。
The first Boagworld podcast was released on August 23, 2005. I went back in the archives to the post titled “web design podcast…”
第一个Boagworld播客于2005年8月23日发布。我在档案中返回了标题为“网页设计播客……”的帖子。
Paul: I was just going to do one.
保罗：我正要做一个。
Patrick: And then web design podcast episode 2, and it continued on for a while with that format, but that was coming up on five years, so are you planning anything special for the five-year anniversary?
帕特里克(Patrick)：然后是网络设计播客第2集，这种格式继续播放了一段时间，但是那要持续五年，所以您打算为五年周年纪念做些特别的事情吗？
Paul: No, we’ve done it on the basis of episodes. As you know, we did something special for the 200th, where we did a live 12-hour show, which you we’re kind enough to participate, Patrick, but no, we won’t celebrate the five years because I don’t really want to think about it too much. That’s a scary number, isn’t it? Wow, I’m getting old.
保罗：不，我们是根据情节来做的。 如您所知，我们为第200届做了一些特别的事情，我们做了一个12小时的现场表演，帕特里克，我们很高兴能参加，但是不，我们不会庆祝这五年，因为我不真的想太多了。 这是一个令人恐惧的数字，不是吗？ 哇，我老了。
Patrick: Speaking of the 200th episode and it was a pleasure to be on, but Alex Dawson in the SitePoint Forums, @alexdawsonuk on Twitter, he says that the podcast, “The 200th episode, was a massive success and a huge amount of fun for him to listen to. Those 12 hours were certainly a challenge of no small measure,” but he wants to know “What were your highlights, he says, apart from Marcus having that successful showcase of his guitar playing while you were off having break, which of course had to be #1?”
帕特里克(Patrick)：说到第200集，很高兴能继续，但是在SitePoint论坛上的Alex Dawson(@alexdawsonuk在Twitter上)说，播客“第200集是巨大的成功，并且带来了很多乐趣给他听。 这12个小时无疑是不小的挑战，”但他想知道“他说，您的亮点是什么，除了马库斯(Marcus)在您休息的时候能成功展示他的吉他外，当然，是第一？”
Paul: What was my highlights of 12 hours? – gee, the honest truth is, the highlight was when it finished. No, it was such a blur, it’s hard to remember it all. I really enjoyed talking about science fiction with Jeremy Keet, which was nothing to do with web design whatsoever, but I enjoyed that. I really enjoyed talking with Dan Reuben towards the end because I was really beginning to flag by that point and he just came in and kind of took over the conversation and that was really great. But there were so many people that gave so much of their time.
保罗：我12小时的亮点是什么？ – gee，诚实的事实是，最重要的是完成的时间。 不，那是如此的模糊，很难记住这一切。 我真的很喜欢与Jeremy Keet谈论科幻小说，这与网页设计无关，但是我很喜欢。 我真的很喜欢与丹·鲁本(Dan Reuben)进行交谈，因为那时我真的开始举报了，他才进来，有点接手了对话，那真的很棒。 但是有这么多人付出了很多时间。
I think really the highlight was the community spirit behind it, the fact that all of these web designers gave up their time to come on the show and that there were so much positive vibes in the chat room, so many people getting involved, and encouraging us on. It felt a little bit like running a marathon and having all these people either running beside you or standing at the sidelines cheering for you. It was an amazing experience, really. I really enjoyed it.
我认为，真正的亮点是背后的社区精神，所有这些Web设计师都放弃了参加展览的时间，并且聊天室中有很多积极的氛围，有很多人参与其中并鼓励他们我们继续。 感觉有点像跑马拉松，让所有这些人都在您旁边跑或者站在边线为您加油。 确实，这是一次了不起的经历。 我真的很喜欢。
Patrick: I may have been one of the only people that don’t really consider themselves a web designer.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我可能是唯一不真正认为自己是网页设计师的人之一。
Paul: Nah, there was a bit of a mixture people. We had Alex Hunter who is a kind of venture capitalist / kind of social media guy who came on and talked and there were some developers. It was quite mixed, but I just shove everybody in the same pot, called everybody a ‘web designer.’
保罗：不 ，有些杂种。 我们有Alex Hunter，他是一位风险投资家/社交媒体人士，他来了并进行了交谈，并且有一些开发人员。 这很复杂，但是我只是把每个人都推到了同一个锅里，称每个人为“网页设计师”。
I’m not into these fancy job titles people keep coming up with – “product evangelist” or “front-end coding development monkey” – they’re all web designers to me.
我不喜欢人们一直想起的这些花哨的职位-“产品推广者”或“前端编码开发猴子”-他们都是我的网页设计师。
Patrick: My business card says “Director of Everything.”
帕特里克：我的名片上写着“万事通”。
Brad: “Director of Awesome.”
布拉德： “真棒导演。”
Paul: I’m currently going with “Web strategist,” but I’ve no idea what that means.
保罗：我目前正与“网络战略家”一起工作，但我不知道这意味着什么。
Brad: The podcast is actually produced by Headscape, which is the web design agency that you’re one of the funding members of – I’m curious, how has the podcast actually helped Headscape grow over the years?
布拉德(Brad)：该播客实际上是由Headscape制作的，Headscape是您是其网页资助机构之一的网络设计机构–我很好奇，这几年播客实际上如何帮助Headscape成长？
Paul: I would say pretty much that that it is the primary reason that we’ve grown from three initial people to 18 of us now. It was never intended for that purpose initially. I mean, the podcast was just a side project that I wanted to do, but what it kind of demonstrates that being open and giving away stuff is a really good way of attracting in business. We found that something like 90% of our new business, so not repeat business, but our new business comes via Boagworld and it has become a very good marketing tool for a couple of reasons.
保罗：我几乎可以说这是我们从最初的三个人发展到现在的18个人的主要原因。 最初从未打算将其用于此目的。 我的意思是，播客只是我想做的一个附带项目，但是它表明开放和赠送东西是吸引业务的一种很好的方式。 我们发现大约有90％的新业务是我们的新业务，而不是重复业务，但我们的新业务来自Boagworld，由于多种原因，它已成为非常好的营销工具。
One is that we obviously show that we know what we’re talking about and that we’re experts in our field, but secondly I think that they know what it’s like to work with us. They know the kind of people we are and how their project is likely to go – they get a taste of what is to come – because a lot of time people hire companies not just on the basis of their skill set, but also can they work with these people, do they like these people. We’re very transparent and open and honest on the podcast and I think people respect that and like that. So yeah, it has been very influential in the growth of Headscape.
一是我们显然表明我们知道我们在谈论什么，而且我们是该领域的专家，但是第二，我认为他们知道与我们合作的感觉。 他们知道我们是什么样的人以及他们的项目可能如何进行–他们对即将发生的事情有所了解–因为很多时间人们不仅根据自己的技能来聘用公司，而且还能工作和这些人在一起，他们喜欢这些人吗？ 我们在播客中非常透明，开放且诚实，我认为人们对此表示敬意。 是的，它对Headscape的增长非常有影响。
Brad: You now have what you’re calling Boagworld Bites. Could you kind of explain what those are, what’s the difference from your normal podcast episodes?
布拉德：现在您有了所谓的Boagworld Bites。 您能解释一下这些是什么，与您的常规播客情节有何不同？
Paul: Yeah, sure. Our normal show consists of three segments – there’s normally news, a feature or an interview of some kind, and then some element of listener feedback or listener contribution. What we were finding – in the main part of our show, the start of our show is a lot of banter, a lot of messing around, a lot of being rude to one another and there were some groups of people that didn’t want that. They just wanted the kind of core information and just skip all the rest of it.
保罗：是的，当然。 我们的正常表演分为三个部分-通常是新闻，功能或某种采访，然后是听众反馈或听众贡献的某些元素。 我们发现的内容–在节目的主要部分，节目的开始是很多玩笑，周围很乱，很多人互相不礼貌，还有一些人不想那。 他们只是想要那种核心信息，而只跳过所有其余信息。
We were thinking about well, should we cut that down, but then there’s another huge audience who absolutely love that kind of stuff so we didn’t feel we could do that, so that was one problem we had.
我们当时想的很好，是否应该减少这一点，但是还有另一批绝对喜欢这种东西的听众，因此我们感觉自己无法做到这一点，所以这是我们面临的一个问题。
Alongside that, the other problem we were having is that we were creating complete show notes for our show – which includes transcriptions of all the interviews and pretty much a word for word outline of the podcast. When you have a podcast that lasts the best part of an hour or sometimes even more, that’s too long for show notes on the web and what people wanted you to do is they will want you to tweet about, “Hey did you see that great interview with Zeldman that they had on Boagworld?” They were pointing people at the show notes, but then people would have to look all the way through the show notes and try to find the bit where we talked about Zeldman.
除此之外，我们遇到的另一个问题是，我们正在为节目创建完整的节目注释，其中包括所有采访的转录内容以及播客的逐字逐句提要。 当您的播客持续一个小时的最佳时间，有时甚至更长的时间时，对于网络上的展示笔记来说太长了，人们想要您做的是他们希望您发推文，“嘿，您看到那很棒吗他们曾在Boagworld上接受Zeldman的采访吗？” 他们将人们指向展示笔记，但随后人们将不得不一直浏览展示笔记，并尝试找到我们谈论Zeldman的地方。
So the “bite-size” really solves those two problems. First of all, it gets rid of the banter because a lot of the banter is either at the beginning of sections or the beginning of the show between sections, so by removing that and releasing them as short segments – “this is just the news, this is just the feature, this is just the interview” or whatever – you remove that kind of superfluous nonsense really.
因此，“咬合大小”确实可以解决这两个问题。 首先，它消除了玩笑，因为很多玩笑要么在小节的开头，要么在小节之间的演出的开始，所以通过删除它并将它们作为短片段发布–“这只是新闻，这只是功能，这只是采访”或其他任何内容-实际上，您消除了那种多余的废话。
The other thing that you do is you then release a series of blog posts so people can link specifically to the piece of content that they were interested in – whether it be the news segment or an interview, or whatever. That was the kind of the two reasons. It’s partly for SEO, it’s partly for those that don’t like the waffle and it’s partly really to encourage linking and to enable people just to listen to the bits they want of the show.
您要做的另一件事是，然后发布一系列博客文章，以便人们可以专门链接到他们感兴趣的内容–无论是新闻片段还是采访，等等。 这就是两种原因。 这部分是针对SEO，部分是针对不喜欢华夫饼的人，部分是真正鼓励链接，并使人们能够只听他们想要节目的内容。
Brad: Yeah, I think it’s a great idea. That might be something we need to look at doing on the SitePoint podcast. We typically try to hit the 30-minute mark, but it’s very easy when you get to some passionate topics to hit an hour plus. I really like the idea that you’ve done here, kind of segregate those conversations into smaller episodes. I think it’s great.
布拉德：是的，我认为这是个好主意。 这可能是我们在SitePoint播客上需要做的事情。 我们通常会尝试达到30分钟的标记，但是当您遇到一些充满激情的主题时，这很容易达到一个小时以上。 我真的很喜欢您在这里所做的想法，将这些对话分成较小的情节。 我觉得很好。
Paul: It’s also great from kind of the blog point of view because it means that there’s content going out pretty much every day. We record on Monday, news goes out Tuesday, the interview or feature goes out Wednesday, the listener contribution section goes out Thursday and then the actual show goes out Friday. The only day where there – after the weekends where there’s no content is on Monday, and then often there are the bits and pieces that go out then – listener contribution, blog posts, or I’ve reviewed something I don’t feel would get fit in the show, but is still interesting. So we’ve got pretty much content going out every day of the week, which is great – except weekends.
保罗：从博客的角度来看，这也很棒，因为这意味着每天都有大量内容流失。 我们在周一录制，在星期二发布新闻，在星期三发布采访或专题报道，在星期四发布听众贡献部分，然后在星期五发布实际演出。 唯一的一天-在周一没有内容的周末之后，然后通常是零散的内容-听众的贡献，博客文章，或者我查看了一些我认为不会得到的内容适合演出，但仍然很有趣。 因此，我们每个星期的每一天都有很多内容可供浏览，这非常棒-周末除外。
Brad: We have another question from Alex Dawson of the SitePoint Forums and Alex mentioned your plans to potentially make a premium edition of Boagworld, covering certain topics more extensively and Alex wondered, “Do you see a more extensive future in online video and audio training for subjects like web design especially with the likes of Lynda being so popular and web design education being a bit slow to keep up?”
布拉德：我们还有SitePoint论坛的Alex Dawson提出的另一个问题，Alex提到了您计划制作Boagworld高级版的计划，其中涵盖了更广泛的某些主题，而Alex想：“您是否看到在线视频和音频培训的更广阔的未来？对于网页设计这样的主题，尤其是Lynda之类的应用如此流行，而网页设计教育的跟进速度却有些缓慢？”
Paul: Yeah, I mean Lynda is hugely popular and I would highly recommend it to people. I also, although I can’t tell you, this is such a tease, I know that there are other people looking into this as well – this idea of paying subscriptions for content. There’s other players out there doing similar thing. What we’re talking about with the pro shows is tackling some of the subjects that we don’t cover on Boagworld because Boagworld is meant for, as I said, at the beginning of every show designers, developers, and website owners.
Paul：是的，我的意思是Lynda非常受欢迎，我强烈推荐给人们。 我也虽然不能告诉你，但这太过挑逗了，我知道还有其他人也在考虑这一点-这种为内容付费订阅的想法。 还有其他玩家在做类似的事情。 正如我们所说，与专业展会有关的是解决我们在Boagworld上没有涵盖的一些主题，因为正如我所说，Boagworld是为每个展会的设计师，开发人员和网站所有者而设计的。
It means that we try and kind of keep away from talking about how to run a web design business or how to convince clients to sign off stuff or whatever else. We don’t cover that kind of stuff. It was that that I was talking about doing a pro show for. I think there’s a massive feature in that kind of stuff and I think you’ll see a lot more of it. I mean, there were people doing it for free, who to be honest, could charge a small amount of money for those kinds of subscriptions. I mean, we make our money in other ways. We make it because of referrals and that kind of stuff, but I actually think I would pay subscriptions for really good video tutorials on certain subjects and I’m sure other people would too. It’s getting the price right is the key, isn’t it?
这意味着我们将尽一切努力避免谈论如何开展网页设计业务或如何说服客户签署内容或其他任何内容。 我们不涉及那种东西。 那是我在谈论要进行专业表演。 我认为这类资料具有很大的特色，我想您会发现更多的特色。 我的意思是，有些人免费这样做，说实话，他们可以为这类订阅收取少量费用。 我的意思是，我们以其他方式赚钱。 我们之所以做到这一点，是因为推荐和诸如此类的事情，但是我实际上认为我会为某些主题的非常好的视频教程付费，我相信其他人也会这样做。 正确确定价格是关键，不是吗？
Patrick: Yeah and speaking of revenue, I want to talk a little bit about advertising because you do sell some advertising on Boagworld. There’s ads in the sidebar and I don’t know if they’re on the show or not, but I noticed that we both use BuySellAds.com and it appears that you also might be doing some direct selling – so I wanted to ask you about what you’re doing with advertising and how you manage it.
帕特里克：是的，谈到收入，我想谈谈广告，因为您确实在Boagworld上出售了一些广告。 侧边栏中有广告，我不知道它们是否在节目中，但我注意到我们俩都使用BuySellAds.com ，而且看来您可能也在做一些直销-所以我想问您关于您在做广告以及如何管理广告。
Paul: We’ve always been cautious about advertising because we don’t want to kind of take the Michael out of people and to stuff the show full of advertising and we’ve tried lots of different approaches, but we’re slowly settling on basically two advertising packages that we run.
保罗：我们一直对广告保持谨慎，因为我们不想将迈克尔带出人们的视线，并在节目中塞满广告，并且我们尝试了许多不同的方法，但我们正在慢慢适应我们基本上投放了两个广告包。
The first one is traditional banner advertising, which sits on the right-hand side of the Boagworld website. We sell that for a mixture of direct advertising that we sell ourselves and also what they call buy to sell—
第一个是传统的横幅广告，它位于Boagworld网站的右侧。 我们以直接广告的混合方式进行销售，这些方式包括我们自己销售以及他们所谓的买入卖出-
Patrick: BuySellAds?
帕特里克： BuySellAds？
Paul: Yeah, BuySellAds, thank you. We trying BuySellAds out really. So far, we’ve done it pretty much direct, but it’s so convenient to go with them that I think we’ll probably use them more for that advertising on the right-hand side. However, the advertising that I think is more interesting is the advertising we include in the show now. The thing is with banner advertising, as we all know, is people get blind to banner advertising quite quickly and quite easily, but inserting adverts into a show is much more effective. People are much more likely to remember it. It’s not something you could easily skip past. It’s something that basically is a much more effective advertising tool.
保罗：是的，BuySellAds，谢谢。 我们确实尝试了BuySellAds。 到目前为止，我们已经直接完成了它，但是与它们一起使用非常方便，我想我们可能会在右侧使用它们做更多的广告。 但是，我认为更有趣的广告是我们现在显示在节目中的广告。 众所周知，横幅广告的意义在于，人们可以非常快速，轻松地对横幅广告视而不见，但是将广告插入节目中会更加有效。 人们更容易记住它。 这不是您可以轻易跳过的事情。 从根本上讲，它是一种更有效的广告工具。
It also can be much more annoying if you’re not careful. What we are doing at the moment is we’re having one short advert at the top of each bite-size that we release. So each segment of the show has one advert. It’s just literally a couple of lines, sometimes I’d say a little bit more, and that also appears on the blog post as well to kind of accompany it. The people that have advertised with us so far have been extremely pleased with the kind of feedback they’ve got, Shopify in particular, are always doing interesting things with us and they’ve got some interesting things coming up as well, which is really cool.
如果您不小心，也可能会更烦人。 目前，我们正在做的是在所发布的每一个咬合大小的顶部都有一个简短的广告。 因此，节目的每个部分都有一个广告。 从字面上看这只是几行，有时我会说更多，这也随同出现在博客文章中。 到目前为止，与我们一起做广告的人们对他们得到的反馈感到非常满意，尤其是Shopify，他们总是在和我们做有趣的事情，并且他们也收到了一些有趣的事情，这的确是凉。
That has all been really arranged on a pretty ad hoc basis. We don’t actively go out looking for advertisers, they tend to come to us, and yeah, we’re still kind of finding our feet with it because we don’t want it to become too intrusive basically, but interestingly I haven’t had one negative comment about the advertising in the entire time we’ve done it, which to be honest, I find incredible, because normally people really get irritated by advertising.
这一切都是在相当临时的基础上安排的。 我们不会主动出去寻找广告商，他们倾向于来找我们，是的，我们仍然可以找到自己的脚，因为我们不希望它基本上变得过于侵入性，但是有趣的是我没有在我们完成广告的整个过程中，对广告都没有什么负面评论，说实话，我发现这令人难以置信，因为通常人们真的会对广告感到不快。
Patrick: Yeah, that is somewhat surprising, but like you said, it’s a fine balance – that those of us that care about the sites that we run, we struggle with that balance in a way because there’s this need to make some money at least for those that are just writing the content, not so much dealing with the referral end of the business. But there’s this need to make money, but also there’s the users and how comfortable the site is and how usable it is. I struggle with it myself, I mean, when we make ad adjustments it’s something I think long and hard about when we add something new or you move something or how it all works because there are serious implications for it.
帕特里克：是的，这有点令人惊讶，但是就像您说的那样，这是一个很好的平衡–我们当中那些关心我们运营的网站的人，在某种程度上要与这种平衡作斗争，因为至少需要赚一些钱对于那些只写内容的人，与其说是处理业务的推荐端，不如说是他们的事。 但是，这不仅需要赚钱，而且还有用户，网站的舒适程度和可用性。 我自己就为此感到挣扎，我的意思是，当我们进行广告调整时，我会思考很长时间，当我们添加新内容或您移动某些内容或它们全部如何工作时，因为这会产生严重的影响。
Paul: I mean we’re looking at all kinds of different ways to make revenue from Boagworld, which offers value. Advertising is really my least favorite of the options that are available and although we try and pick advertisers that are very relevant to our audience, it doesn’t add huge value to the user experience. Okay, they might get excited to see that I’ve discovered a tool, they’re like Little Snapper that advertise with us or Perch or whatever, but it’s not adding massive value.
保罗：我的意思是，我们正在寻找通过Boagworld赚钱的各种不同方法，Boagworld提供价值。 广告确实是我最不喜欢的可用选项，尽管我们尝试选择与我们的受众群体非常相关的广告客户，但它并不能为用户体验带来巨大的价值。 好吧，他们可能会兴奋地看到我发现了一种工具，就像Little Snapper一样在我们或Perch或其他公司做广告，但并没有增加巨大的价值。
But we’re also looking at doing things like running workshops off in the back of Boagworld or even doing online kind of webinars – and I hate that word – those kinds of things where people are getting a real value out of it. I mean, we’ve also looked to merchandising as well, but you never quite get around to it, although people have started doing their own thing. There’s some very funny Boagworld t-shirts knocking around.
但是，我们也正在考虑做一些事情，例如在Boagworld背后举办研讨会，甚至进行在线网络研讨会-我讨厌这个词-人们从中获得真正价值的那些事情。 我的意思是，我们也同样关注商品销售，但是尽管人们已经开始做自己的事情，但您永远也无法完全做到这一点。 有一些非常有趣的Boagworld T恤在敲。
Patrick: Well, I love when people experiment with different models. I always hate when people say, “This is a dead model and this is a bad model, advertising is dead, blah blah blah” – I don’t want to know that this is a dead model. I want to know the model that will replace that income for me. I love when people experiment. I mean that’s how we learn and get better.
帕特里克：嗯，我喜欢人们尝试不同的模型。 当人们说“这是一个失败的模型，这是一个糟糕的模型，广告已经死了，等等等等”时，我总是很讨厌–我不想知道这是一个失败的模型。 我想知道将替代我的收入的模型。 当人们尝试时，我爱。 我的意思是，这就是我们学习和变得更好的方式。
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. We try loads of different stuff and the community soon lets you know when you’ve over-stepped the line.
保罗：是的，绝对。 我们会尝试各种不同的东西，社区会很快让您知道您是否已超出限制。
Patrick: With audio ads on the podcast, I’m really unfamiliar with that myself, what do you track and where do the metrics that advertisers expect or want you to provide?
帕特里克(Patrick)：在播客上播放音频广告时，我本人真的不熟悉，您跟踪什么，广告商期望或希望您提供哪些指标？
Paul: Well, because again, we’ve done this – people have primarily come to us. We haven’t really worried massively about that. I give them the metrics of roughly what the download levels are, but I mean as you know, those are so hard to track accurately when it comes to a podcast because there’s caching that’s going and some people download and then don’t listen to it, and there’s all kinds of things that— and throw them out.
保罗：好吧，因为我们再次这样做了–人们主要是来找我们的。 我们并没有真正为此担心。 我为他们提供了大致的下载级别指标，但是我想知道，当播客播放时，很难准确跟踪这些指标，因为正在缓存，有些人会下载然后不听，还有各种各样的东西，然后扔掉。
A lot of our advertisers are just more interested in being associated with the Boagworld brand and they are necessarily the exact conversion rate or the exact amount of traffic they’re going to generate. It’s interesting to see those that have stuck with us the longest from an advertising point of view – it’s over time that they’ve really built the momentum from it.
我们的许多广告客户对与Boagworld品牌相关联更感兴趣，他们一定是确切的转化率或即将产生的流量。 有趣的是，从广告的角度来看，那些在我们身上停留时间最长的人–随着时间的推移，他们才真正从中获得了动力。
For example, I mentioned Shopify earlier, have been with us as long as we’ve done advertising, and I’m forever seeing on Twitter now, “Paul recommends Shopify for this,” but that has only come over time where there’s kind of an established relationship that has been built. I think metrics only take you so far really when it comes to podcast advertising, but obviously, when we refer them, we refer them to a unique URL – shopify.com/boagworld or whatever – so they can track it that way.
例如，我之前提到过Shopify，只要我们做过广告就一直在我们身边，现在我一直在Twitter上看到“ Paul为此推荐Paul Shopify”，但这只是随着时间的流逝，建立的已建立的关系。 我认为指标在播客广告方面只能带给您真正的帮助，但是显然，当我们引用它们时，我们将它们引用到一个唯一的URL(shopify.com/boagworld或其他任何东西)，以便他们可以以此方式进行跟踪。
Yeah, but other than that, we don’t promise them any certain levels of traffic. We don’t say that the podcast generates this number of guaranteed listens or anything like that – because we simply can’t.
是的，但除此之外，我们不向他们承诺任何特定水平的流量。 我们并不是说播客会产生一定数量的有保证的收听或类似的声音，因为我们根本做不到。
Patrick: Right. Boagworld.com, the podcasting community, as well as your writing and speaking appear to be, as we discussed, generating some revenue or at least they could or they’re moving in that direction with their various experiments. Is this something – the podcast, your writing, your speaking, et cetera – that you want to continue to grow to become a bigger part of your life and perhaps your livelihood or if being designer your first kinda true love and something that you’ll always want to have that primary focus on?
帕特里克：对。 正如我们所讨论的，Boagworld.com，播客社区以及您的写作和口语似乎正在产生一定的收入，或者至少他们可以或者他们正在通过各种实验朝这个方向发展。 这就是播客，您的写作，您的演讲等等吗？您想要继续成长以成为生活和生计中更大的一部分，或者如果您是设计师，则是第一次真正的爱，而您会一直想把重点放在哪？
Paul: I’ve long since stepped away from hands-on design, although I am kind of doing some at the moment actually, so that sounds very contradictory, but that’s been the first one in a very long time. People often wonder what it is I actually do. Any my kind of job splits into three areas for Headscape and I like it the way it is.
保罗：我已经远离动手设计了很长时间，尽管实际上我现在正在做一些事情，所以听起来很矛盾，但这是很长一段时间以来的第一次。 人们常常想知道我实际上在做什么。 我的任何工作都分为Headscape的三个区域，我喜欢它的现状。
Basically, a third of my job is doing kind of marketing stuff at Headscape, which essentially is Boagworld, it’s the Website Owners Manual, the book that I wrote. It’s the things like the speaking engagements and all that kind of stuff – so that’s kind of one third of it.
基本上，我的工作的三分之一是在Headscape做某种营销工作，本质上就是Boagworld，这是我写的《网站所有者手册》。 这是诸如口语交际之类的东西，以及所有类似的东西，因此占三分之一。
Another third is what I call R&D, effectively, which is me keeping up to date with the latest innovations, integrating those into our internal processes, making sure that everybody in the company is up to speed, lots of internal training, that kind of thing.
另一个三分之一是我所谓的有效研发，这是我与时俱进的最新创新，将这些创新整合到我们的内部流程中，以确保公司中的每个人都可以快速进行，进行大量的内部培训，诸如此类。
Then the final third is consultancy where I’m working with clients at a kind of consultative level, so I tend to be involved in the early days of a project. I maybe get involved with some of the wire framing work and some of the conceptual business work upfront and then it’s handed off to a designer. I mean, our designers are way better than I am. I mean, they do such stunning work. It would be a bit of a travesty if I was involved with it, really, they’d all screw up their noses and they’d send me to the corner.
最后的三分之一是咨询公司，我在某种程度上与客户合作，因此我倾向于参与项目的早期阶段。 我可能会参与一些线架工作和一些概念性业务工作，然后将其移交给设计师。 我的意思是，我们的设计师比我更好。 我的意思是，他们做得如此出色。 如果我参与其中，那将是一个小事，真的，他们全都screw了鼻子，就把我送到角落。
Brad: So what tips would give anyone thinking of starting a web design podcast or maybe a knitting podcast?
布拉德：那么，什么技巧可以使任何人考虑开始进行网页设计播客或编织播客？
Paul: Don’t. Don’t. I want the traffic to myself.
保罗：不用。 别。 我想要交通给我自己。
Brad: Just pulled this off the top of my head here…
布拉德：刚刚把它从我的头顶上拉下来了……
Paul: The big thing that I think people miss when it comes to podcasting is the need to entertain – that even if you’re doing a really serious subject or really dull subject – you could hardly say web design is the most scintillating of subject areas in the world. It’s not like with, I don’t know, professional wrestlers or something. There is a need to kind of entertain and engage with people because people aren’t being paid as part of their job to listen to a podcast. They listen to the podcast when they’re going to or from work, when they’re in the gym – those kinds of environments. They’re doing it off their own back. It’s kind of you have to get this balance between providing valuable information that informs them, but at the same time making it entertaining.
保罗：我认为人们在播客方面错过的一件大事是娱乐性的需求-即使您正在做一个非常严肃的主题或非常乏味的主题，您也很难说网页设计是主题领域中最令人着迷的在世界上。 我不知道与职业摔跤手之类的东西不一样。 需要一种娱乐性和与人互动的方式，因为人们不会因为收听播客而获得酬劳。 当他们上下班，在体育馆里时，他们会收听播客–这些环境。 他们正在自己做。 在提供有价值的信息以告知他们的同时，还要兼具娱乐性，这是您的一种平衡。
Making something entertaining is really hard to do when you’re sat in front of a mic. It’s very easy to go very monotone, “And-this-is-what-I’m-talking-about-now-and-I-hope-you’re-as-interested-as-I-am-on-this-particular-subject.” It comes across wrong. You’ve got to have real enthusiasm, you’ve got to have real passion, you got to really talk as if you’re talking to an audience of people.
当您坐在麦克风前时，要使娱乐变得非常困难。 变得很单调很容易，“而这就是我正在谈论的现在和我希望您对此感兴趣的是我-特定主题。” 它遇到了错误。 您必须具有真正的热情，您必须具有真正的热情，您必须像在与人群中交谈一样进行真正的交谈。
The other thing that I found – the biggest lesson that I’ve learned is do it with someone else. I started off by myself and it is hideous. It is a train wreck. I encourage you to go back and listen to the first ever Boagworld. You’ll manage it for 30 seconds maybe and then you’ll want to stab out your eyes… oh, that’s not what you’re listening to it, so stab out your ears – there you go. But when I started doing it with Marcus who I’ve worked with for a long length of time, we’ve got this kind of natural rapport and we bounce around with each other and he’s very rude to me and I’m very undeserving of his criticism and we kind of got this thing that goes on. That makes it fun. That makes it enjoyable.
我发现的另一件事–我学到的最大的一课是与别人一起做。 我一个人开始，这太可怕了。 这是火车残骸。 我鼓励您回去听听有史以来的第一个Boagworld。 您可能需要管理30秒钟，然后才需要刺破眼睛……哦，这不是您正在听的，所以要刺破您的耳朵-随身携带。 但是，当我开始与长期合作的马库斯(Marcus)合作时，我们得到了这种自然的融洽关系，我们彼此反弹，他对我很无礼，我不配他的批评，我们有点不解之谜。 这很有趣。 这使它令人愉快。
We’ve kind of – the way I’ve always described is, effectively, what we do is we’re talking about web design in the pub, and if you can create that kind of atmosphere, if you can create that conversational environment, then great. That’s far more important than technology. It’s far more important than getting the audio right or anything else – is make it engaging, make it conversational.
我们一直在描述-实际上，我一直在描述的方式是，我们正在谈论酒馆中的网页设计，如果您可以营造这种氛围，并且可以营造一种对话环境，那太好了 这远比技术重要。 这比使音频正确或其他任何事情都重要得多-使它具有吸引力，使其具有对话性。
Patrick: As we discussed, the first Boagworld podcast was nearly five years ago. For that initial recording, what equipment did you use?
帕特里克：正如我们所讨论的，第一个Boagworld播客大约是五年前。 对于该初始记录，您使用了什么设备？
Paul: Gah, flippin’ heck… you expect me to remember that?
保罗：加，快点……你希望我记住这一点吗？
Patrick: If you can’t, you can’t.
帕特里克：如果不能，就不能。
Paul: For starters, I was on PC other than Mac. What would I have been using? I just had a very basic normal external mic – the kind of thing that you would just pick up in PC World or wherever. I had… what software was I using? I think I found some strange kind of podcast – no, I couldn’t have found podcasting software because it only just started. I can’t even remember what I was recording in – I mean, it’s terrible. The quality is awful. We struggled with quality for such a long length of time because basically, it wasn’t there. There weren’t people doing this. Now, you can find podcasting mics and podcasting software and all of this kind of stuff – none of that existed when we started.
保罗：首先，我在Mac以外的PC上。 我会一直在使用什么？ 我只有一个非常基本的普通外接麦克风-这种东西您可以在PC World或任何地方使用。 我有……我在使用什么软件？ 我想我发现了某种奇怪的播客–不，我找不到播客软件，因为它才刚刚开始。 我什至不记得我正在录制的内容–我的意思是，这太糟糕了。 质量太差了。 我们在这么长的时间里一直在与质量作斗争，因为基本上没有质量。 没有人这样做。 现在，您可以找到播客麦克风和播客软件以及所有此类内容-开始时不存在。
I look at new podcasts that start today like Think Vitamin Radio or even SitePoint when you started. I mean the quality of what you got started was way above what we did, which I think because there was nobody who had done anything like it before particularly, and we’re all kind of making it up as we’d go along.
我看今天开始的新播客，例如Think维生素Radio或什至开始时的SitePoint。 我的意思是，您入门的质量要比我们做的要好得多，我认为这是因为以前没有人做过任何类似的事情，并且我们会不断完善自己。
Patrick: Right, so what’s your setup now then for episode – I guess, 208 was the last one, right?
帕特里克：对，那你现在的情节设置是什么-我猜208是最后一个，对吗？
Paul: Yeah. Marcus is the guy you really want to talk to about this kind of stuff, but we have now a small mixing board that has going out of it three mics. I don’t know what they are. They’re kind of mic-y things – mics plugged into a mixing board, which Marcus controls and then out there into Logic Pro – and he basically records it all into Logic. But I couldn’t tell you what make or anything like that.
保罗：是的。 Marcus是您真的想和他谈谈这种事情的人，但是我们现在有一个小型混音板，可以从中取出三个麦克风。 我不知道他们是什么。 它们有点像麦克风-麦克风插入混音板，由Marcus控制，然后在那里插入Logic Pro-他基本上将所有内容都记录到Logic中。 但是我不能告诉你什么牌子或类似的东西。
You should be able to tell that I know nothing about the audio because whenever Marcus isn’t here, the audio sounds terrible.
您应该能够说出我对音频一无所知，因为只要Marcus不在，音频听起来就很糟糕。
Patrick: What is the, I guess, the team that creates Boagworld? How big is that team?
帕特里克：我猜是Boagworld的创建团队吗？ 那支球队有多大？
Paul: Oh, it’s massive. There’s hundreds of us to make it…
保罗：哦，好大。 我们有数百人做到了……
Patrick: Internationally?
帕特里克：国际上？
Paul: …Internationally, spread across the globe. No, let me think… Right… so there’s me. There’s Marcus that co-hosts with me and basically records the audio and does the mixing and stuff like that. There is Ryan Taylor who now works at Headscape actually, but started off as a volunteer who is what we call our producer and his role is basically to contact people that we want to interview. He produces the show notes for us, just makes sure every thing is on track and kind of organizes us basically.
保罗： …国际上，遍布全球。 不，让我想想……对……就是我。 Marcus与我共同主持，基本上记录了音频并进行混合和类似的操作。 Ryan Taylor现在实际上在Headscape工作，但最初是一名志愿者，这就是我们所说的制作人，他的角色基本上是与我们要采访的人联系。 他为我们制作展示记录，只是确保每件事都按计划进行，并且基本组织了我们。
Then there is Anna Debenham who is a volunteer, and she does kind of technical stuff, so she’ll publish the actual podcast on the Friday, make sure that iTunes is updated, deal with all those kind of bits and pieces. She also edits audio for us as well. If we’ve done an interview, she will clean it up and balance the levels and all of that kind of stuff, so there’s her.
然后是自愿者Anna Debenham，她从事技术工作，因此她将在星期五发布实际播客，确保iTunes得到更新，处理所有这些零碎的事情。 她还为我们编辑音频。 如果我们完成了面试，她将清理并平衡水平和所有这些东西，所以有她。
Then there is Paul Stanton. Paul is our kind of news guy. He reads more RSS feeds than any human should have to read and helps to selects our stories for the show. He also posts them on Boagworld itself and there’s a Twitter feed called @BoagLinks that you can follow with loads of new stories there. He does that kind of role, which is a biggie.
然后是保罗·斯坦顿。 保罗是我们的新闻人物。 他阅读的RSS提要比任何人都应该阅读的要多，并帮助选择了该节目的故事。 他还将它们发布在Boagworld本身上，并且有一个名为@BoagLinks的Twitter提要，您可以在其中关注大量的新故事。 他扮演的角色非常大。
After that, we’ve got a lot of community leaders in the Boagworld forum – who are all volunteers again – that kind of keep the forum going and answer questions. They’re helpful, wonderful people in the forum and they are quite incredible. It’s quite frustrating sometimes because I check the forum everyday, feeling that I want to contribute to it and somebody asks a question and by the time I look at it, they’ve already given four different brilliant answers that I can’t improve on so it makes me somewhat redundant in my own forum.
此后，我们在Boagworld论坛上有很多社区负责人-都是自愿者-可以使论坛继续进行并回答问题。 他们是论坛中很有帮助的很棒的人，他们非常不可思议。 有时候这很令人沮丧，因为我每天都在查看论坛，感觉自己想为此做贡献，有人问一个问题，而当我查看它时，他们已经给出了四个我无法改进的出色答案。这让我在自己的论坛中有些多余。
The final group of people are the transcribers – who I just think are insane. These people give up their time for free to transcribe all of the interviews that we do so that they can be accessible on the website for people that have hearing problems. I’ve got so much respect for those people because it must be the most dull job in the world ever, but they do it. So it’s quite a big team, I guess. The group of transcribers is 20+ people, but yeah, everybody volunteers and pitches in.
最后一群人是笔录者-我只是认为他们很疯狂。 这些人会浪费时间免费抄录我们所做的所有采访，以便有听力障碍的人可以在网站上访问他们。 我非常尊重这些人，因为这肯定是世界上最枯燥的工作，但他们做到了。 我想这是一个很大的团队。 记录员的组有20多个人，但是，是的，每个人都自愿参加。
Patrick: It has to be great to have, I guess, a community behind you that is willing to volunteer so much of their time.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我想在您身后拥有一个愿意自愿花大量时间的社区，这真是太好了。
Paul: Yeah, absolutely, and in fact, we almost have the problem now where we’ve got more volunteers than we actually require, which is a very bizarre situation to have, but they’re really wonderful. I mean, I’m constantly amazed at people online. If they find something that they like, they want to get involved with it, they want to contribute to it, they want to add to it. It sounds really naff and corny, but if it wasn’t for the community, Boagworld would’ve never have succeeded.
保罗：是的，绝对的，事实上，现在我们几乎遇到了一个问题，那就是我们有比我们实际需要的更多的志愿者，这是一个非常奇怪的情况，但是他们真的很棒。 我的意思是，我一直对在线人感到惊讶。 如果他们找到自己喜欢的东西，他们想参与其中，他们想为它做出贡献，他们想添加进去。 听起来确实很老套，但如果不是社区，Boagworld永远不会成功。
Patrick: We’ll switch off the podcast questions now, for awhile. I think we’ve spent half the show on it. Just some more general web and web design questions – Alex Dawson again, he was curious, what has been your web design highlight of the year in terms of the things that you’ve been doing yourself lately?
帕特里克：我们暂时关闭播客问题。 我想我们已经花了一半的节目了。 只是一些更常见的Web和Web设计问题– Alex Dawson再次感到好奇，就您最近所做的事情而言，您今年的Web设计最重要之处是什么？
Paul: There has been so many. We work on a large e-commerce site on a kind of continual basis. I absolutely love working on that site and we’ve done some great stuff recently where we’ve re-done the user interface for it and added a load of kind of cool Ajax-y stuff in there and the user experience has improved massively, we’ve done loads of A/B testing on it – user testing and that kind of stuff.
保罗：有很多。 我们会不断地在大型电子商务网站上工作。 我绝对喜欢在该网站上工作，最近我们做了一些很棒的工作，我们为此重新做了用户界面，并在其中添加了许多很棒的Ajax-y内容，并且用户体验得到了极大的改善，我们已经对其进行了A / B测试负载-用户测试和类似的工作。
I find that a very satisfying site for a couple of reasons – the number one being that when you’re working on the e-commerce site, you know whether you’re succeeding or not. You either sell more stuff or you don’t. So every little change that you make, you can go, “Has it increased conversion rate, yes or no?” So you know whether you’ve been successful and that’s very satisfying.
我发现一个非常令人满意的网站有几个原因-第一是当您在电子商务网站上工作时，您知道自己是否成功。 您要么出售更多东西，要么不出售。 因此，您所做的每一个小小的改变，都可以走，“它增加了转换率，是还是不是？” 因此，您知道自己是否成功，这令人非常满意。
The other thing about the website is it has got such a unique audience. It’s aimed at to be kind of over 60s market, really. I think their average customer is like in their 80s or something ridiculous. It’s absolutely unbelievable. It’s very satisfying with working with an audience like that that’s so unique and has so many unique challenges about it, so I love working on that site and that has been a real highlight for me.
关于网站的另一件事是它拥有如此独特的受众。 的确，它的目标市场是60年代以上的市场。 我认为他们的普通客户就像80年代那样，或者有些荒谬。 绝对不可思议。 与如此独特的受众群体合作并带来许多独特的挑战令我非常满意，所以我喜欢在该网站上工作，这对我来说是一个真正的亮点。
I guess the only other thing that is worth mentioning is Get Signoff, which I know you’re going to come on to later. We’ve been making some big changes with Get Signoff, which is an app that we run, and yeah, that has been a very exciting project to be involved with. But we haven’t really seen the kind of workings-out of that yet. It hasn’t kind of hit the public in a strong way, so I guess that’s to come, rather than stuff that has happened.
我猜唯一值得一提的是Get Signoff ，我知道您稍后会谈到。 We've been making some big changes with Get Signoff, which is an app that we run, and yeah, that has been a very exciting project to be involved with. But we haven't really seen the kind of workings-out of that yet. It hasn't kind of hit the public in a strong way, so I guess that's to come, rather than stuff that has happened.
Brad: When you’re working on a new design or maybe a redesign for a website, where do you draw a kind of inspiration from for that design?
Brad: When you're working on a new design or maybe a redesign for a website, where do you draw a kind of inspiration from for that design?
Paul: Everywhere. I use an application called LittleSnapper, which allows you to collect stuff. Like most web designers, I collect websites that I think are cool. But I collect a lot more than that. I collect photographs I think are cool. I collect color swatches that I like, but I also take photographs when I’m out and about of signs and patterns in nature and architecture and all kinds of things.
Paul: Everywhere. I use an application called LittleSnapper , which allows you to collect stuff. Like most web designers, I collect websites that I think are cool. But I collect a lot more than that. I collect photographs I think are cool. I collect color swatches that I like, but I also take photographs when I'm out and about of signs and patterns in nature and architecture and all kinds of things.
I’m a great believer in looking beyond the Web for inspiration because I think the problem is, is otherwise we’re all looking in each other’s work and things never move on. It takes people from the outside to… or things from the outside to really inspire of us. One of the designers that I like most at the moment is a guy called Mike Kus because his background is in print and the websites he produced look more like posters and they do websites. I find that very inspiring to look beyond the web for inspiration.
I'm a great believer in looking beyond the Web for inspiration because I think the problem is, is otherwise we're all looking in each other's work and things never move on. It takes people from the outside to… or things from the outside to really inspire of us. One of the designers that I like most at the moment is a guy called Mike Kus because his background is in print and the websites he produced look more like posters and they do websites. I find that very inspiring to look beyond the web for inspiration.
Museums are great places as well. I don’t get to go there as much as I would like, but there are some great inspiration there, printed materials I said, logo design, good typography – all that kind of stuff – you can find it everywhere, and I think increasingly, I’m looking further and further away from web design for my inspiration.
Museums are great places as well. I don't get to go there as much as I would like, but there are some great inspiration there, printed materials I said, logo design, good typography – all that kind of stuff – you can find it everywhere, and I think increasingly, I'm looking further and further away from web design for my inspiration.
I’m not doing a lot of hands-on design work anymore. A lot of the inspiration I’m looking at is more strategic stuff. I’m looking at things like psychology, sociology, even history to some regards and I’m looking at how they sell in supermarkets and all these different areas that lie outside of the field of web design. I’m actually giving a talk at Future of Web Design, which is coming up soon, and I’m talking about exactly this, this idea of new skills that we’ve got learners, web designers and one of them that I talk about is psychology that as web designers we really need to have a good understanding of users and how our brains work and how we make decisions and that kind of stuff.
I'm not doing a lot of hands-on design work anymore. A lot of the inspiration I'm looking at is more strategic stuff. I'm looking at things like psychology, sociology, even history to some regards and I'm looking at how they sell in supermarkets and all these different areas that lie outside of the field of web design. I'm actually giving a talk at Future of Web Design , which is coming up soon, and I'm talking about exactly this, this idea of new skills that we've got learners, web designers and one of them that I talk about is psychology that as web designers we really need to have a good understanding of users and how our brains work and how we make decisions and that kind of stuff.
Psychology is a huge inspirational area that I highly recommend. We’ve got an interview coming up soon on the Boagworld show with a guy called Stephen Anderson who spoke at South By Southwest this year about delighting and surprising people and about persuading them to do what you want and he has produced a brilliant set of cards called mental notes cards. You can check them out at GetMentalNotes.com. The cards have basically got different aspects of psychology on them so you kind of learn about different aspects of psychology and then how you can apply that to your website.
Psychology is a huge inspirational area that I highly recommend. We've got an interview coming up soon on the Boagworld show with a guy called Stephen Anderson who spoke at South By Southwest this year about delighting and surprising people and about persuading them to do what you want and he has produced a brilliant set of cards called mental notes cards. You can check them out at GetMentalNotes.com . The cards have basically got different aspects of psychology on them so you kind of learn about different aspects of psychology and then how you can apply that to your website.
For example, one of the things that is intrinsic in humans is we’re social and we’re led by other people. So how can you apply that to your website? Well, you can apply it using customer testimonials by doing “the average donation on this charity website was X amount.” So people are kind of led by the crowd. It’s all these kinds of things in psychology that I find very inspirational, but I don’t necessarily think that’s what you were getting at. Anyway, there you go.
For example, one of the things that is intrinsic in humans is we're social and we're led by other people. So how can you apply that to your website? Well, you can apply it using customer testimonials by doing “the average donation on this charity website was X amount.” So people are kind of led by the crowd. It's all these kinds of things in psychology that I find very inspirational, but I don't necessarily think that's what you were getting at. Anyway, there you go.
Brad: I really like your point about kind of looking outside the web and I want to mention the article that you wrote back in November called Stop Designing Websites, Start Designing Posters and it really kind of highlights the challenges of designing a poster and a website and how to have some of those same challenges. I thought that was really kind of interesting take on ways to draw inspiration on design. So we’ll definitely link to that article in the show notes. It looks like it’s a pretty popular one, there’s quite a few comments on it.
Brad: I really like your point about kind of looking outside the web and I want to mention the article that you wrote back in November called Stop Designing Websites, Start Designing Posters and it really kind of highlights the challenges of designing a poster and a website and how to have some of those same challenges. I thought that was really kind of interesting take on ways to draw inspiration on design. So we'll definitely link to that article in the show notes. It looks like it's a pretty popular one, there's quite a few comments on it.
Paul: Yeah. It turned out to be very popular. I’ve discovered something that basically whenever you put loads of pictures in, people look at it. It’s like people really enjoy their inspirational articles rather than the ones stuffed with loads of theory, which I guess I can understand, but I think sometimes we’re becoming a bit lazy as a web community and that we perhaps should delve a bit deeper sometimes, but yeah, there you go.
保罗：是的。 It turned out to be very popular. I've discovered something that basically whenever you put loads of pictures in, people look at it. It's like people really enjoy their inspirational articles rather than the ones stuffed with loads of theory, which I guess I can understand, but I think sometimes we're becoming a bit lazy as a web community and that we perhaps should delve a bit deeper sometimes, but yeah, there you go.
Brad: I’ve heard rumors that you are not a fan of Flash, is that true? And if so, why?
Brad: I've heard rumors that you are not a fan of Flash, is that true? 如果是这样，为什么？
Paul: You know what? It’s not true. I’m quite happy with Flash in certain situations. I think they’re becoming less and less reasons to use Flash as standards improve and with things like JavaScript and Ajax and what that can do these days combined with HTML5 and its native video support. They’re beginning to get there, but isn’t there yet. You know, there are some situations where Flash is very, very relevant. It’s just I think in a lot occasions, people use it when it’s not needed and that oftentimes, there are better technologies to achieve what you want to achieve. That said, when it comes to video at the moment, Flash can’t be beaten.
Paul: You know what? 这不是真的。 I'm quite happy with Flash in certain situations. I think they're becoming less and less reasons to use Flash as standards improve and with things like JavaScript and Ajax and what that can do these days combined with HTML5 and its native video support. They're beginning to get there, but isn't there yet. You know, there are some situations where Flash is very, very relevant. It's just I think in a lot occasions, people use it when it's not needed and that oftentimes, there are better technologies to achieve what you want to achieve. That said, when it comes to video at the moment, Flash can't be beaten.
When it comes to very interactive games, I don’t think Flash can be beaten. When it comes to things like recording audio that you’re going to upload onto a website, Flash can’t be beaten there.
When it comes to very interactive games, I don't think Flash can be beaten. When it comes to things like recording audio that you're going to upload onto a website, Flash can't be beaten there.
So there are situations – I mean I use Flash on Boagworld for crying out loud. Obviously, I don’t dislike it that much, but I do think that it’s the old story, it’s not about the tool itself. It’s what people do with the tool and I think oftentimes, people use Flash very unwisely and use it too much. I think ultimately – and this is where I’ll get hate mail – but ultimately I think Flash will go away. I’m not talking about in the next six months, I’m talking about in the next ten years – but I see it becoming less and less important especially now with the stand that Apple has taken over Flash, I think that could only hasten its demise, but we’re not talking in a hurry.
So there are situations – I mean I use Flash on Boagworld for crying out loud. Obviously, I don't dislike it that much, but I do think that it's the old story, it's not about the tool itself. It's what people do with the tool and I think oftentimes, people use Flash very unwisely and use it too much. I think ultimately – and this is where I'll get hate mail – but ultimately I think Flash will go away. I'm not talking about in the next six months, I'm talking about in the next ten years – but I see it becoming less and less important especially now with the stand that Apple has taken over Flash, I think that could only hasten its demise, but we're not talking in a hurry.
Brad: Yeah, I was going to say I would imagine Apple would like that statement that you just made, but I would agree. Another question that’s not so much web design, but it’s definitely a hot topic right now and that’s the announcement of Facebook made with their new ‘Like’ button, which essentially allows people traveling across the internet to like sites that they’re visiting. Is that something you plan to kind of implement on sites you’re building and do you have any thoughts on that as far as how that ‘Like’ button is going to start getting kind of factored into website designs?
Brad: Yeah, I was going to say I would imagine Apple would like that statement that you just made, but I would agree. Another question that's not so much web design, but it's definitely a hot topic right now and that's the announcement of Facebook made with their new 'Like' button, which essentially allows people traveling across the internet to like sites that they're visiting. Is that something you plan to kind of implement on sites you're building and do you have any thoughts on that as far as how that 'Like' button is going to start getting kind of factored into website designs?
Paul: Truth is I’ve kind of ignored it so far. What I often tend to do when a new technology like this comes along is I will sit on it for a bit and I will just kind of mull it over and I will see what other people do with it and I will see how it works out before I kind of jump in on it. There are some quite serious ramifications of what Facebook have recently announced and they’re very much trying to position themselves almost as a kind of underlying infrastructure for the Web, which makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable, but I don’t know enough about it really to be able to judge.
Paul: Truth is I've kind of ignored it so far. What I often tend to do when a new technology like this comes along is I will sit on it for a bit and I will just kind of mull it over and I will see what other people do with it and I will see how it works out before I kind of jump in on it. There are some quite serious ramifications of what Facebook have recently announced and they're very much trying to position themselves almost as a kind of underlying infrastructure for the Web, which makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable, but I don't know enough about it really to be able to judge.
What normally happens is once I decide something is worth playing with, I’ll experiment with it on, say, Boagworld or my own personal sites and only later will I then start introducing it into client sites. I don’t have a strong opinion on it yet. I don’t know enough about it to be honest.
What normally happens is once I decide something is worth playing with, I'll experiment with it on, say, Boagworld or my own personal sites and only later will I then start introducing it into client sites. I don't have a strong opinion on it yet. I don't know enough about it to be honest.
Patrick: Let’s talk about the book a bit – Website Owners Manual. It’s a great book. I’ve read it myself. I recommend it to designers, people who are looking for designers especially and anyone related to those groups – but now that you’re a published author, what was your opinion of the book-writing process?
Patrick: Let's talk about the book a bit – Website Owners Manual . It's a great book. I've read it myself. I recommend it to designers, people who are looking for designers especially and anyone related to those groups – but now that you're a published author, what was your opinion of the book-writing process?
Paul: Horrendous, painful, awful. I’d never do it again.
Paul: Horrendous, painful, awful. I'd never do it again.
Patrick: Sounds about right.
Patrick: Sounds about right.
Paul: Yeah. Why anybody writes a book is quite beyond me, but there you go. It was a little bit of a frustrating process because I’ve got the attention span of a small child, so having to concentrate on something like that for that length of time was not a comfortable fit with me. Also, I’m used to writing something and it being live within minutes, so that was quite a frustrating process as well. Also, to be honest, I find publishers quite frustrating – and that’s not a reflection on Manning who published my book. I think it’s a fairly general experience that I hear from most authors that publishing is not moving particularly fast at the moment in terms of adoption of new techniques and just how people interact with books these days. That was a little bit painful as well.
保罗：是的。 Why anybody writes a book is quite beyond me, but there you go. It was a little bit of a frustrating process because I've got the attention span of a small child, so having to concentrate on something like that for that length of time was not a comfortable fit with me. Also, I'm used to writing something and it being live within minutes, so that was quite a frustrating process as well. Also, to be honest, I find publishers quite frustrating – and that's not a reflection on Manning who published my book. I think it's a fairly general experience that I hear from most authors that publishing is not moving particularly fast at the moment in terms of adoption of new techniques and just how people interact with books these days. That was a little bit painful as well.
So no, I wouldn’t rush to do it again. Also, you don’t get rich out of it. You don’t do it to get rich. You don’t make any money particularly out of it. I mean, the Website Owners Manual sold incredibly well, yet, it’s not going to cover the amount of time that took me to write the book, but it’s kind of you do it because it’s a good way of raising your profile. It makes certain people take you more seriously, which is bizarre and silly, but it’s the way it is and you do it for ego, don’t you? You know, I’m a published author. Let’s be honest about it. But yeah, I mean I don’t regret doing it but I’m not in any hurry to do other one.
So no, I wouldn't rush to do it again. Also, you don't get rich out of it. You don't do it to get rich. You don't make any money particularly out of it. I mean, the Website Owners Manual sold incredibly well, yet, it's not going to cover the amount of time that took me to write the book, but it's kind of you do it because it's a good way of raising your profile. It makes certain people take you more seriously, which is bizarre and silly, but it's the way it is and you do it for ego, don't you? You know, I'm a published author. Let's be honest about it. But yeah, I mean I don't regret doing it but I'm not in any hurry to do other one.
Patrick: I was going to ask you about publishers actually and obviously, you went with a more traditional publisher in Manning, but I wanted to ask you, what is your reasoning for going with a publisher and what do you view as the strengths and weaknesses of traditional publishers?
Patrick: I was going to ask you about publishers actually and obviously, you went with a more traditional publisher in Manning, but I wanted to ask you, what is your reasoning for going with a publisher and what do you view as the strengths and weaknesses of traditional publishers?
Paul: The reason I went with a traditional publisher was, to be honest, nothing more than the kind of kudos that comes with that – the kind of recognition. If you self-publish a book, it doesn’t sound as cool, does it, basically? It’s one part of it. Another part of it is Manning approached me. I had no intentions of writing a book. They kind of persuaded me into it and so to some degree, I got a bit of swept along by them. The pros of it? The pros of it are you do get someone that gives you that kind of editorial attention. I mean, they pushed me hard to kind of improve the quality of my writing and I think it really has helped. They also are very good at helping you be more concise, and I learned a lot from them in that regards as well. For somebody that doesn’t consider themselves a natural writer, which I don’t, it was very reassuring having somebody there holding your hand. So I think there are some benefits there. I think there are also some benefits in terms of reach that they can get the book in places that you as an author cannot. So those are the pros.
Paul: The reason I went with a traditional publisher was, to be honest, nothing more than the kind of kudos that comes with that – the kind of recognition. If you self-publish a book, it doesn't sound as cool, does it, basically? It's one part of it. Another part of it is Manning approached me. I had no intentions of writing a book. They kind of persuaded me into it and so to some degree, I got a bit of swept along by them. The pros of it? The pros of it are you do get someone that gives you that kind of editorial attention. I mean, they pushed me hard to kind of improve the quality of my writing and I think it really has helped. They also are very good at helping you be more concise, and I learned a lot from them in that regards as well. For somebody that doesn't consider themselves a natural writer, which I don't, it was very reassuring having somebody there holding your hand. So I think there are some benefits there. I think there are also some benefits in terms of reach that they can get the book in places that you as an author cannot. So those are the pros.
The cons are really you give them a lot of money, essentially. They’re making a big chunk of money out of doing this that you could keep for yourself. Self-publishing potentially is a lot more profitable. I think the publishers slow down the process more than it needs to be, which with a time-sensitive book could be an issue. Fortunately, Website Owners Manual wasn’t particularly time-sensitive.
The cons are really you give them a lot of money, essentially. They're making a big chunk of money out of doing this that you could keep for yourself. Self-publishing potentially is a lot more profitable. I think the publishers slow down the process more than it needs to be, which with a time-sensitive book could be an issue. Fortunately, Website Owners Manual wasn't particularly time-sensitive.
Were I to do it again I think I would self-publish, but the trouble is, is kind of you need a certain level of notoriety before you can self-publish and make it successful, and publishing a book with a traditional publisher enables you to get that kind of notoriety you need – if that makes sense? I’ve got very mixed feelings about the whole thing, really.
Were I to do it again I think I would self-publish, but the trouble is, is kind of you need a certain level of notoriety before you can self-publish and make it successful, and publishing a book with a traditional publisher enables you to get that kind of notoriety you need – if that makes sense? I've got very mixed feelings about the whole thing, really.
Patrick: Basically what you said, I can only echo and Brad just recently had his first book published as well, but the thing is, people have always cited to me the example of 37signals because they self-published their book – or one of their – I don’t know how many they’ve written by now. But the book at the time they had self-published and they’d written this blog post about how it did so well, but what I always say to that is – if you go back, 37signals, their first book – was published by New Riders, which was part of a very large imprint.
Patrick: Basically what you said, I can only echo and Brad just recently had his first book published as well, but the thing is, people have always cited to me the example of 37signals because they self-published their book – or one of their – I don't know how many they've written by now. But the book at the time they had self-published and they'd written this blog post about how it did so well, but what I always say to that is – if you go back, 37signals, their first book – was published by New Riders, which was part of a very large imprint.
We all have to start somewhere and you give away some of that money for, like you said, the access and the legitimacy, which is a big deal.
We all have to start somewhere and you give away some of that money for, like you said, the access and the legitimacy, which is a big deal.
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I can’t argue with that. I think that when you talk to established authors that have written several, they all go “self-published it,” but that’s because they’ve already built out that reputation so they get less value from the publisher at that point. If it’s your first book, I think there is a value of going with a traditional publisher.
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I can't argue with that. I think that when you talk to established authors that have written several, they all go “self-published it,” but that's because they've already built out that reputation so they get less value from the publisher at that point. If it's your first book, I think there is a value of going with a traditional publisher.
Patrick: Have you found the book has opened up a lot of doors for you and given you many opportunities that you would not have previously had, i.e., people saying, “Oh, he really knows about this stuff” now.
Patrick: Have you found the book has opened up a lot of doors for you and given you many opportunities that you would not have previously had, ie, people saying, “Oh, he really knows about this stuff” now.
Paul: You know the honest answer is no, but let me explain. If I’d published the book then, when they originally approached me, then yes, I think it would have opened up all kinds of doors and would have been hugely beneficial.
Paul: You know the honest answer is no, but let me explain. If I'd published the book then, when they originally approached me, then yes, I think it would have opened up all kinds of doors and would have been hugely beneficial.
What happened over the period of time as I was writing the book is that Boagworld suddenly gained much, much more exposure and became much, much more well known. What the book was meant to achieve happened anyway, so it became less valuable from that point of view. Where the real value of the book comes from our point of view and why I don’t regret for a minute writing it is the fact that it is a book for our potential clients and so every time we go along to a pitch, every time we’re up for a project, we hand over a book and say, “Well, whoever you pick, this would be useful to you,” and that is a massive selling tool that is hugely beneficial and I think it has attracted certain customers and clients to us. Also, a lot of those people obviously have read the book and so kind of know the way we work, so we do find that projects tend to run smoother because clients are better informed.
What happened over the period of time as I was writing the book is that Boagworld suddenly gained much, much more exposure and became much, much more well known. What the book was meant to achieve happened anyway, so it became less valuable from that point of view. Where the real value of the book comes from our point of view and why I don't regret for a minute writing it is the fact that it is a book for our potential clients and so every time we go along to a pitch, every time we're up for a project, we hand over a book and say, “Well, whoever you pick, this would be useful to you,” and that is a massive selling tool that is hugely beneficial and I think it has attracted certain customers and clients to us. Also, a lot of those people obviously have read the book and so kind of know the way we work, so we do find that projects tend to run smoother because clients are better informed.
It has been a good sales tool, I guess, and it has been a valuable education for our clients to ensure that they’re better and actually a lot of the sales that we have seen from the book have been web designers who have bought multiple copies of this book to give out to their own clients in order to kind of bring their clients up to speed and ensure the kind of quality of relationship you really need to make a website successful.
It has been a good sales tool, I guess, and it has been a valuable education for our clients to ensure that they're better and actually a lot of the sales that we have seen from the book have been web designers who have bought multiple copies of this book to give out to their own clients in order to kind of bring their clients up to speed and ensure the kind of quality of relationship you really need to make a website successful.
Patrick: Yeah, if you’re charging $5,000, $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 for a job, the $30 for the book for what it can offer is a drop in the bucket.
Patrick: Yeah, if you're charging $5,000, $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 for a job, the $30 for the book for what it can offer is a drop in the bucket.
Paul: Exactly, absolutely.
Paul: Exactly, absolutely.
Patrick: We’ve talked about the podcast, the book, the design agency… I guess the last product we haven’t talked about or the last major thing you’re involved with is Get Signoff. Can you tell us about GetSignoff.com?
Patrick: We've talked about the podcast, the book, the design agency… I guess the last product we haven't talked about or the last major thing you're involved with is Get Signoff. Can you tell us about GetSignoff.com ?
Paul: I can tell you lots about GetSignoff.com and in fact, I can repeat the URL – GetSignoff.com lots. This is what I’m most excited about at the moment. I’ve got to be very careful not to turn this into a sales pitch. Essentially what Get Signoff is – and it has been around for a little while – it started off a side project to scratch your own itch, right? We have this problem of when clients – we were working with clients especially on design signoff and getting a design signed off, and they were sending through – one person will make a comment via our email, another person would call us up. Especially with the kind of work we do, there are more than one client, however much we wish that wasn’t the case.
Paul: I can tell you lots about GetSignoff.com and in fact, I can repeat the URL – GetSignoff.com lots. This is what I'm most excited about at the moment. I've got to be very careful not to turn this into a sales pitch. Essentially what Get Signoff is – and it has been around for a little while – it started off a side project to scratch your own itch, right? We have this problem of when clients – we were working with clients especially on design signoff and getting a design signed off, and they were sending through – one person will make a comment via our email, another person would call us up. Especially with the kind of work we do, there are more than one client, however much we wish that wasn't the case.
I mean, we were even receiving faxes for crying out loud where they fax the design back to us with scribbles on it. It was all getting very out of hand so what we did is we built an application where we can upload designs and we can log into that, the client can log into it, they can make their comments there, they can add notes to the designs, you can have a whole discussion. It’s all in one nice ordered place and you can then upload multiple versions of the design as it progresses. When the client is happy with it, they click on the big signoff button. They know what they’re committing themselves to, they know that the design is set in stone and everybody knows where they stand.
I mean, we were even receiving faxes for crying out loud where they fax the design back to us with scribbles on it. It was all getting very out of hand so what we did is we built an application where we can upload designs and we can log into that, the client can log into it, they can make their comments there, they can add notes to the designs, you can have a whole discussion. It's all in one nice ordered place and you can then upload multiple versions of the design as it progresses. When the client is happy with it, they click on the big signoff button. They know what they're committing themselves to, they know that the design is set in stone and everybody knows where they stand.
We were really pleased of what we produced. It was something that was very useful, but it was a side project and it never really got the attention that it deserved and I’ve had all these other ideas about Get Signoff that we could build a community around it, a community where we talk about the issues of working with clients and how to get them to sign off on things and issues about running a web design business, which we don’t really cover on Boagworld because that’s more aimed at website owners, but we just didn’t have the time to commit to it and to make it happen.
We were really pleased of what we produced. It was something that was very useful, but it was a side project and it never really got the attention that it deserved and I've had all these other ideas about Get Signoff that we could build a community around it, a community where we talk about the issues of working with clients and how to get them to sign off on things and issues about running a web design business, which we don't really cover on Boagworld because that's more aimed at website owners, but we just didn't have the time to commit to it and to make it happen.
It kind of stagnated as a project until probably a couple of months ago where we hired Ryan Taylor, who I mentioned is the producer on Boagworld. He has now become the kind of product evangelist to Get Signoff and is now kind of re-launching Get Signoff and in fact, it should be re-launching as we speak. The site is currently down because we were re-launching it, although obviously by the time this goes out it should hopefully be up again.
It kind of stagnated as a project until probably a couple of months ago where we hired Ryan Taylor, who I mentioned is the producer on Boagworld. He has now become the kind of product evangelist to Get Signoff and is now kind of re-launching Get Signoff and in fact, it should be re-launching as we speak. The site is currently down because we were re-launching it, although obviously by the time this goes out it should hopefully be up again.
We’re putting up a new site and we’re adding a blog into it and we’re going to start blogging about all those things of running a website agency and dealing with clients – all that kind of good stuff – we’re going to start covering. We’re also going to be making massive changes to Get Signoff itself, the application, adding new features to it like batch-up loading, like dealing with Flash files and HTML wireframes and all that kind of stuff. He has got loads of stuff in the pipeline there, but the big change we’ve made at the moment is we’ve significantly reduced the price of it because we’ve learned a lot from the audience that have already used it and so now we’ve got three packages aimed at freelancers, teams, and agencies that are at ₤10 per month, ₤15 per month, and ₤25 per month.
We're putting up a new site and we're adding a blog into it and we're going to start blogging about all those things of running a website agency and dealing with clients – all that kind of good stuff – we're going to start covering. We're also going to be making massive changes to Get Signoff itself, the application, adding new features to it like batch-up loading, like dealing with Flash files and HTML wireframes and all that kind of stuff. He has got loads of stuff in the pipeline there, but the big change we've made at the moment is we've significantly reduced the price of it because we've learned a lot from the audience that have already used it and so now we've got three packages aimed at freelancers, teams, and agencies that are at ₤10 per month, ₤15 per month, and ₤25 per month.
We’ve kind of made it much more accessible to people and we’re really quite excited. The big thing that excites me the most is having dedicated people to work on this, rather than it being tagged on to your other work because anybody out there that is kind of listening to this that is working on client work that has this kind of little side project – this kind of baby that they want to nurture and grow – you know how impossible it is. The client always comes first; it always overrules stuff.
We've kind of made it much more accessible to people and we're really quite excited. The big thing that excites me the most is having dedicated people to work on this, rather than it being tagged on to your other work because anybody out there that is kind of listening to this that is working on client work that has this kind of little side project – this kind of baby that they want to nurture and grow – you know how impossible it is. The client always comes first; it always overrules stuff.
Having Ryan and another developer called Simon as well that are dedicated 100 percent to Get Signoff really is exciting for us because we can do loads of stuff that we weren’t previously able to do. So that’s my pet project at the moment and that’s what I’m really excited about, but I won’t go on about it anymore because this is sounding like a sales pitch.
Having Ryan and another developer called Simon as well that are dedicated 100 percent to Get Signoff really is exciting for us because we can do loads of stuff that we weren't previously able to do. So that's my pet project at the moment and that's what I'm really excited about, but I won't go on about it anymore because this is sounding like a sales pitch.
Patrick: No, not at all. You’ve answered all of the questions I think that I was going to ask about it.
帕特里克：不，一点也不。 You've answered all of the questions I think that I was going to ask about it.
Brad: Just in case nobody got it, what was the URL?
Brad: Just in case nobody got it, what was the URL?
Paul: It’s GetSignoff.com.
Paul: It's GetSignoff.com.
Brad: Ah, OK. We’ll make sure that’s in the show notes as well.
Brad: Ah, OK. We'll make sure that's in the show notes as well.
Patrick: That’s your mantra, isn’t it? You go around pounding your chest saying “Get Signoff, Get Signoff, Get Signoff!”
Patrick: That's your mantra, isn't it? You go around pounding your chest saying “Get Signoff, Get Signoff, Get Signoff!”
Paul: I’m actually wearing a T-shirt right now. It’s a Get Signoff T-shirt and basically, the Get Signoff logo quite small and discreet and then a flipping big arrow pointing to it with underneath it’s written, “Yeah-yeah, that’s great, but can you make the logo bigger? – the client” So, yes, I’m completely branded head to toe in Get Signoff at the moment.
Paul: I'm actually wearing a T-shirt right now. It's a Get Signoff T-shirt and basically, the Get Signoff logo quite small and discreet and then a flipping big arrow pointing to it with underneath it's written, “Yeah-yeah, that's great, but can you make the logo bigger? – the client” So, yes, I'm completely branded head to toe in Get Signoff at the moment.
Patrick: Well, Paul, it has been a pleasure to have you on and to finally get you on the show here. Hopefully, we can maybe get over there on Boagworld at some point – maybe some of the other guys, not me, they’re all jealous of me – but thanks so much and good luck with Get Signoff and everything you got going on.
Patrick: Well, Paul, it has been a pleasure to have you on and to finally get you on the show here. Hopefully, we can maybe get over there on Boagworld at some point – maybe some of the other guys, not me, they're all jealous of me – but thanks so much and good luck with Get Signoff and everything you got going on.
Paul: Thank you very much for having me on the show. It’s much appreciated.
Paul: Thank you very much for having me on the show. 非常感谢。
Brad: Thanks, Paul.
Brad: Thanks, Paul.
Patrick: Well, that was a lot of fun, and now let’s close out the show. Brad?
Patrick: Well, that was a lot of fun, and now let's close out the show. Brad?
Brad: I’m Brad Williams from WebDevStudios, you can check out my blog at strangework.com, and I’m on Twitter @williamsba.
Brad: I'm Brad Williams from WebDevStudios, you can check out my blog at strangework.com , and I'm on Twitter @williamsba .
Patrick: And I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy network, and you can follow me on Twitter @iFroggy.
Patrick: And I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy network , and you can follow me on Twitter @iFroggy .
You can also follow our usual co-hosts, Stephan Segraves on Twitter @ssegraves, and Kevin Yank @sentience, as well as SitePoint @sitepointdotcom.
You can also follow our usual co-hosts, Stephan Segraves on Twitter @ssegraves , and Kevin Yank @sentience , as well as SitePoint @sitepointdotcom .
Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on this show, and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. Email podcast@sitepoint.com with your questions for us; we’d love to read them out on the show and give you our advice.
Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on this show, and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. Email podcast@sitepoint.com with your questions for us; we'd love to read them out on the show and give you our advice.
The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Karn Broad. Thankyou for listening, and we’ll see you next week.
The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Karn Broad. Thankyou for listening, and we'll see you next week.
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
谢谢收听！ 欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。
翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-60-entering-boags-world-with-paul-boag/
扫一扫
632
被折叠的 条评论
为什么被折叠?
到【灌水乐园】发言
