Episode 34 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves) and Kevin Yank (@sentience).
SitePoint Podcast的 第34集现已发布！ 本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。
下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #34: Sorry About the Slashes(MP3, 46.1MB)SitePoint Podcast＃34：对斜线表示抱歉(MP3，46.1MB)
剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)
Here are the topics covered in this episode:
以下是本集中介绍的主题：
Tim Berners-Lee says “Sorry about the slashes!”
蒂姆·伯纳斯·李说：“对不起，斜线！”
Sir Tim Berners-Lee: Sorry About the Slashes (SitePoint)
蒂姆·伯纳斯·李爵士：对斜杠表示抱歉 (SitePoint)
Which URL is Right? (SitePoint)
哪个网址是正确的？ (SitePoint)
GeoCities is dead
地球城市死了
SitePoint Podcast #14: The Cyberdyne Bill (SitePoint)
SitePoint播客14：Cyberdyne Bill (SitePoint)
Saving a Historical Record of Geocities (Web Archive)
保存地理位置的历史记录 (Web存档)
Memory Lane: XKCD Pays Tribute to GeoCities (Mashable)
记忆里：XKCD向地理城市致敬 (可混用 )
Geocities redesign discussion (XKCD forum)
地质城市重新设计讨论 (XKCD论坛)
Tears in the Rain [language warning] (Jeremy Keith)
雨中的眼泪 [语言警告](杰里米·基思)
Angry Mac Podcast [language warning]
Angry Mac Podcast [语言警告]
Geostupid (Jason Scott)
Geostupid (杰森·斯科特)
Tim O’Reilly on the Whitehouse.gov Switch to Drupal
Whitehouse.gov上的Tim O'Reilly切换到Drupal
Thoughts on the Whitehouse.gov switch to Drupal (O’Reilly Radar)
关于Whitehouse.gov的想法切换到Drupal (O'Reilly Radar)
Why running the White House Web site on Drupal is a political disaster waiting to happen (Slate)
为什么在Drupal上运行白宫网站是一场政治灾难，等待发生 (Slate)
Ballmer: The Internet Isn’t Made For The iPhone
鲍尔默：互联网不是为iPhone设计的
With Windows 7 and new designs, PCs looking better (Associated Press)
使用Windows 7和新设计，PC外观更好 (美联社)
Host Spotlights:
主持人聚光灯：
Stephan: Where Goldfish Come From
斯蒂芬： 金鱼来自哪里
Kevin: Makebelieve Help, Old Butchers, and Figuring Out Who You Are (For Now)
凯文(Kevin)： 帮助他人，老屠夫，并弄清楚自己是谁(暂时)
Patrick: What it takes to be an overnight success
帕特里克： 要在一夜之间取得成功
显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)
Kevin: October 30th, 2009. The creator of the Web shares his regrets, Yahoo! shuts down GeoCities, and Steve Ballmer doesn’t get the Mobile Web. This is the SitePoint Podcast #34: Sorry About the Slashes.
凯文： 2009年10月30日。网络的创建者对Yahoo!表示遗憾。 关闭GeoCities，而史蒂夫·鲍尔默(Steve Ballmer)无法获得移动网络。 这是SitePoint播客＃34：对斜线表示抱歉。
It’s Friday and that means it’s time for another SitePoint podcast. I’m Kevin Yank and I’m joined by Stephan Segraves and Patrick O’Keefe today. Brad is off but he’ll rejoin us next week, I’m sure.
今天是星期五，这意味着该是另一个SitePoint播客的时候了。 我是Kevin Yank，今天还有Stephan Segraves和Patrick O'Keefe加入。 布拉德放假了，但我确定他下周会重新加入我们。
Guys, welcome to the show again.
大家好，欢迎再次参加演出。
Stephan: Good to be back.
史蒂芬：很高兴回来。
Patrick: It’s good to be here.
帕特里克：很高兴来到这里。
Kevin: Patrick, you’ve been… The two of you were at Blog World Expo, isn’t that right?
凯文：帕特里克，你去过……你们两个在博客世界博览会上，不是吗？
Stephan: Yeah.
斯蒂芬：是的。
Patrick: It is. It is. I made a little pit stop at a smaller conference too…
帕特里克：是的。 它是。 我也在一个较小的会议上做了一个进站。
Kevin: I can’t believe I missed that.
凯文：我简直不敢错过。
Patrick: …and then I kind of got sick during that but I’m good now.
帕特里克： …然后我在那期间有点不适，但我现在很好。
Kevin: Back on deck. ?Stephan: Yeah.
凯文：回到甲板上。 ？ 斯蒂芬：是的。
Kevin: Good to hear. Alright. Well let’s dive right in. Our first story is Sir Tim Berners-Lee from the SitePoint Blog… well he didn’t write on the SitePoint Blog but we have him on the SitePoint Blog quoted saying if there’s one thing he could go back and change about the Web, one mistake he thinks he’s made, it’s the two slashes at the end of ‘http://’.
凯文：很高兴听到。 好的。 好吧，让我们深入。我们的第一个故事是SitePoint博客的Tim Berners-Lee爵士……好吧，他没有在SitePoint博客上写东西，但我们在SitePoint博客上引用了他的话，说他是否有回头路可做改变关于网络，他认为自己犯了一个错误，是“ http：//”末尾的两个斜杠。
Stephan: This is funny.
史蒂芬：这很有趣。
Kevin: He says “Really if you think about it, it doesn’t need the double slash. I could have designed it not to have the double slash. It seemed like a good idea at the time.”
凯文：他说：“真的，如果您考虑一下，它不需要双斜线。 我本可以设计为不使用双斜线。 这似乎是一个好主意。”
Patrick: Yeah, I mean what’s ‘http:’, did they need the colon? Did they need …? I guess they do but you know it’s…
帕特里克：是的，我的意思是“ http：”，他们需要冒号吗？ 他们需要……吗？ 我想他们会的，但是你知道的是……
Kevin: They need something separating…
凯文：他们需要分开的东西……
Patrick: The whole thing is like, you know, to the average person, it doesn’t make any sense. Even ‘.com’ isn’t quite something that is translated for a lot of people.
帕特里克(Patrick)：整个事情，就普通人而言，这毫无意义。 甚至'.com'也不是很多人翻译的东西。
Kevin: Right. So I’m curious, do either of you guys actually type the ‘http://’ when you’re typing out an address by hand?
凯文：对。 因此，我很好奇，当您手动输入地址时，你们中的每个人是否真的输入了“ http：//”？
Patrick: Guilty. Guilty.
帕特里克：有罪。 有罪。
Kevin: Guilty? Really?
凯文：有罪吗？ 真？
Patrick: Yeah. ?Kevin: Is it just… I don’t know. ?Patrick: It’s a habit.
帕特里克：是的。 ？ 凯文：只是……我不知道。 ？ 帕特里克：这是一种习惯。
Kevin: A habit?
凯文：有习惯吗？
Patrick: Yeah, really force of habit. I force myself to type everything ‘http://www.’ and I don’t know, it just… It’s part of my DNA now.
帕特里克：是的，真的很习惯。 我强迫自己将所有内容键入“ http：// www”。 我不知道，只是……这是我的DNA的一部分。
Kevin: It’s kind of satisfying, I have to say…
凯文：我有点满意，我不得不说……
Patrick: Like, “I do this right!” “Who cares?”
帕特里克：喜欢，“我做得对！” “谁在乎？”
Kevin: Like once your hands are trained to do that, it’s satisfying to do that kind of repetitive motion.
凯文：就像您的手训练有素地做那样，做那种重复的动作就很令人满意。
Patrick: Right. Yeah, it’s something… you have to take personal pride in it for it to mean anything, right?
帕特里克：对。 是的，这是什么……您必须为此感到自豪，以表示任何意思，对吧？
Kevin: There are times I catch myself doing stuff like that that… In a programming task or something, I’ve got to type five lines that are almost identical and I’m halfway through it and I’m realizing I really could have used the clipboard for this. But I’m halfway through it. I’m committed and I just start… I use it as an excuse to think of something else as I just let my fingers do the typing.
凯文：有时候我会发现自己做这样的事情……在编程任务之类的事情中，我必须键入几乎相同的五行内容，我已经完成了一半，而我意识到我确实可以使用剪贴板。 但是我已经过了一半。 我有决心，就从这里开始……我以它为借口，想着别的东西，因为我只是让我的手指来打字。
Patrick: It’s relax time, right? I mean, in this day and age…
帕特里克：现在是放松时间，对吗？ 我的意思是，在这个时代...
Kevin: It is.
凯文：是的。
Patrick: …we’re all busy and hyper-aware of everything, so those mindless moments are a vacation.
帕特里克(Patrick)： …我们都很忙，对所有事情都一清二楚，所以那些无聊的时刻就是休假。
Kevin: So this brings me to something else that I’ve mentioned in the SitePoint Tech Times a couple of times, it’s the old debate of whether the ‘www’ should be done away with.
凯文(Kevin)：因此，这使我想到了我在SitePoint科技时报上多次提到的其他问题，这是关于是否应删除“ www”的古老争论。
Stephan: Do away with it. I don’t need it.
史蒂芬：废除它。 我不需要
Kevin: Do away with it. And Patrick?
凯文：废除它。 还有帕特里克？
Patrick: Well, I think we’re at a stage right now where it’s too late. I mean, I’ve thought about that because you know you can force with .htaccess, you can force to go with a ‘www’ or not.
帕特里克：好吧，我认为我们现在处于为时已晚的阶段。 我的意思是，我考虑过这一点，因为您知道可以强制使用.htaccess，也可以强制使用'www'。
Kevin: Right.
凯文：对。
Patrick: And I think that’s a decision you need to make when the domain first starts obviously.
帕特里克：我认为这显然是在域首次启动时需要做出的决定。
Kevin: Yeah. ?Patrick: Now I think we’re locked in.
凯文：是的。 ？ 帕特里克：现在我认为我们被锁定了。
Kevin: Oh, I don’t know. Well, it goes without saying that if whether or not you decide when launching a new site to have a ‘www.’ at the start of your address or not, whether or not you do, you need to configure your server to redirect to the other one.
凯文：哦，我不知道。 好吧，不用说，是否在启动新网站时决定是否拥有“ www”。 无论您是否在地址的开头，都需要配置服务器以重定向到另一台服务器。
Patrick: Right.
帕特里克：对。
Kevin: There are still a few high profile sites out there. Last time I looked, Flickr still supported both forms and it didn’t redirect you back and forth. I’m bamboozled that a company as big as Yahoo! can get that wrong. It makes me question the advice I’ve been giving, which is that it’s really important to have that canonical address for your search engine rankings. Maybe Flickr doesn’t care about search engine rankings.
凯文：仍然有一些知名的网站。 上次查看时，Flickr仍然支持这两种形式，并且没有来回重定向您。 我迷上了一家像Yahoo一样大的公司！ 可以弄错。 这使我感到质疑，因为我一直在提供建议，这对于您的搜索引擎排名具有规范的地址确实非常重要。 也许Flickr不在乎搜索引擎排名。
Patrick: Yeah, and sometimes… I don’t know, I’m not a big SEO guy so I don’t know if there’s ways you can redirect it in a search engine’s eyes or whatever… I don’t know but there was another case of something that came up related to this where Borders Australia, borders.com.au, launched… I don’t think it’s that long ago because it’s still in Beta. And when they did, I always pointed over there and of course, I checked out to see if my book was on it and it was. And I checked www.… And for some reason I checked without and what happened was I got a blank page. It didn’t lead to anything. It had some text on it, I think, like testing or some just random placeholder text in there where ‘www’ worked fine. So it’s like you don’t want that to happen either.
帕特里克：是的，有时……我不知道，我不是SEO的大人物，所以我不知道是否可以通过某种方式将其重定向到搜索引擎的眼睛或其他任何东西……我不知道，但是有与此相关的另一个案例是，澳大利亚边界网站Borders.com.au推出了……我认为这不是很久以前，因为它仍处于测试阶段。 当他们这样做时，我总是指着那边，当然，我检查了一下是否有我的书。 然后我检查了www....。由于某种原因，我没有检查，结果是我得到了空白页。 它什么也没导致。 我认为它上面有一些文字，例如测试，或者只是一些随机的占位符文字，而“ www”效果很好。 因此，就像您也不希望这种情况发生一样。
Kevin: Yeah, I’ve got that right now. You might be thinking of Dymocks. Dymocks is the Australian online bookstore. And yeah, if you go www.dymocks.com.au, you get their site. If you don’t, you get a very… It’s a Microsoft IIS ‘under construction’ page.
凯文：是的，我现在知道了。 您可能正在考虑Dymocks。 Dymocks是澳大利亚的在线书店。 是的，如果您访问www.dymocks.com.au，则可以访问他们的网站。 如果不这样做，您将得到一个非常……这是Microsoft IIS“正在建设中”的页面。
Patrick: No, no, this was definitely Borders. But what’s up with the bookstores in Australia then?
帕特里克：不，不，这绝对是边界。 但是，澳大利亚的书店怎么办？
Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Try this yourself, listener, ‘dymocks.com.au’, you get an ‘under construction’. “The site you’re trying to view does not currently have a default page.”
凯文：是的，确实如此。 收听者“ dymocks.com.au”自己尝试一下，您会得到“正在建设中”的信息。 “您尝试查看的站点当前没有默认页面。”
Patrick: Going there now.
帕特里克：现在去。
Kevin: It’s insane.
凯文：太疯狂了。
Patrick: I’m a listener.
帕特里克：我是一个听众。
Kevin: It’s clearly theirs. It’s not someone else that’s grabbed that site from them.
凯文：显然是他们的。 不是其他人从他们那里抢了那个网站。
Patrick: Oh, yeah. “You are not authorized to view this page”, huh.
帕特里克：哦，是的。 “您无权查看此页面”，呵呵。
Kevin: Yeah. Well anyway…
凯文：是的。 好吧...
Patrick: I’m going to hack in by adding the ‘www.’… I’m in.
帕特里克：我要加入“ www。”来入侵。
Kevin: Yeah. And I’ve tried to buy a couple of books from them in the past week and both times— I’ve clearly gotten into the habit of not typing the ‘www’ and trusting that they’ll redirect me if it needs it. So whether you do or not, you got to have that redirecting place but I don’t know it’s… For a while there, it seemed like it was the Web 2.0 thing to do if you were launching a new startup, you wanted the shortest address possible and it was just stylish not to have the ‘www’.
凯文：是的。 在过去的一周中，我两次都尝试从他们那里购买几本书-我显然养成了不键入'www'并相信他们会在需要时重定向我的习惯。 因此，不管您是否要做，您都必须拥有该重定向位置，但我不知道它是……在一段时间内，如果要启动一个新的初创公司，这似乎是Web 2.0要做的事情，可能的地址，没有'www'只是一种时尚。
Patrick: Delicious.
帕特里克：好吃。
Kevin: Yeah, I’m looking at vimeo.com right now for my spotlight later and they don’t have ‘www’.
凯文：是的，我稍后要关注vimeo.com，因为它们没有“ www”。
Patrick: Bit.ly.
帕特里克：有点。
Kevin: But yeah, it’s personal preference I suppose. But yeah, ‘http://www.’, how many letters is that? Eleven.
凯文：但是，我想这是个人喜好。 但是，是的，“ http：// www。”是多少个字母？ 十一。
So you’re Tim Berners-Lee, the first thing you do when you’re designing the Web is go, “Okay, every address is gonna start with 11 characters that will be the same no matter which address…” I think he does have some apologizing to do about that.
因此，您是Tim Berners-Lee，在设计Web时要做的第一件事就是：“好吧，无论哪个地址，每个地址都将以11个字符开头……”我认为他确实对此表示歉意。
Patrick: Well you know, we could just give the whole internet back. I mean if we don’t want it so it’s…
帕特里克：嗯，你知道的，我们可以把整个互联网都还给我。 我的意思是，如果我们不想要它，那就是……
Stephan: But the thing with the ‘www’ is that, you know, when you think about it, like online marketing stuff, you don’t want to hear, “Well go to our web site wwww.whateverwhatever.com…” I just want to hear whatever.com. That’s what I want to hear. It’s too much gibberish.
斯蒂芬：但是“ www”的意思是，当您考虑使用它时，就像在线营销一样，您不想听到“请访问我们的网站wwww.whateverwhatever.com…”，我只想听whatever.com。 这就是我想听到的。 太乱了。
Kevin: I haven’t heard Dymocks do an online – like a radio ad but I wonder what it would sound like. I wonder if they would mention the ‘www’.
凯文：我还没听说过Dymocks在网上做过广告，就像广播广告一样，但我想知道这听起来会怎样。 我想知道他们是否会提到“ www”。
Patrick: And I think that’s part of it. I think that makes sense. Most of the marketing I see anyway tends to have just the ‘.com’. I’m talking about like mass marketing, TV and newspapers ad. I mean, I think that it then falls to the people, whoever, to redirect it properly and you know, I think that’s pretty much a given these days. I think that the fact that we can point out examples where, okay, it doesn’t work, is probably more an aberration then it is you know, a norm, because most sites that I find, they tend to do both well, I guess. And so it’s not really much of a skill but I don’t know, they do…
帕特里克：我认为这是其中的一部分。 我认为这是有道理的。 无论如何，我看到的大多数营销都倾向于只带有“ .com”。 我说的是大众营销，电视和报纸广告。 我的意思是，我认为这应该归于任何人，无论他们是谁，都要对其进行正确的重定向，并且您知道，这些天来我已经觉得差不多了。 我认为我们可以指出一个例子，在这个例子中，好吧，它行不通，可能更像是一种畸变，然后您知道，这是一种规范，因为我发现的大多数网站往往都做得很好，我猜测。 因此，这并不是真正的技能，但我不知道，他们确实...
Stephan: Well I think I just said four w’s so I apologize to the listeners.
史蒂芬：嗯，我想我只是说了四声，所以我向听众道歉。
Patrick: And you’ve got to redirect that as well!
帕特里克：而且您还必须重定向它！
Kevin: All due credit to… I have to give credit to Flickr, they have fixed their problem. Flickr does redirect to the version with ‘www’s’ now so they used to support both.
凯文：所有应归功于……我必须归功于Flickr，他们已经解决了他们的问题。 Flickr现在确实重定向到带有“ www's”的版本，因此它们曾经同时支持这两种版本。
Patrick: Do they redirect the version that has an ‘e’ on the name? Flick-er?
帕特里克：他们是否重定向名称上带有“ e”的版本？ 闪烁？
Kevin: Yeah, I don’t know. I doubt they have that domain.
凯文：是的，我不知道。 我怀疑他们拥有那个领域。
In this story on the SitePoint blog by Craig Buckler, he lists the problems that Tim Berners-Lee admits to have been caused by these slashes. He said “it looks too technical to novice web users,” and that’s probably true, but I guess like you guys said… I don’t know, the marketing heads have kind of solved us for us; you never see really a web address in an advertisement or in a consumer context with that prefix. The browsers add it for you. I think it’s been phased out pretty well so I think we’ve overcome that particular issue.
在克雷格·巴克勒(Craig Buckler) 在SitePoint博客上的故事中 ，他列出了蒂姆·伯纳斯·李(Tim Berners-Lee)承认由这些斜线引起的问题。 他说：“对于新手网络用户来说，这看起来太技术性了，”这也许是正确的，但我想就像你们所说的那样……我不知道，营销负责人已经为我们解决了我们； 您永远不会在广告或消费者上下文中看到带有该前缀的网址。 浏览器会为您添加它。 我认为它已被逐步淘汰，因此我认为我们已经克服了这个特定问题。
This one is a pet peeve of mine. “Many users mistakenly refer to it as backslash-backslash” and I have to admit that there are definitely people in my immediate family who don’t know the difference between a forward slash and a backslash and maybe they shouldn’t have to. I’m just going to try this, now what happens if you type ‘http:\’?
这是我的宠儿。 “许多用户错误地将其称为反斜杠-反斜杠”，我必须承认，我直系亲属中肯定有一些人不知道正斜杠和反斜杠之间的区别，也许他们不必这样做。 我要尝试一下，现在如果您输入“ http：\”会怎样？
Patrick: We’re going into uncharted territory! Hold on, listener!
帕特里克：我们将进入未知领域！ 等等，听众！
Kevin: I’ve never done this before. Oh, it broke! Safari 4 does not like ‘http:\’. It adds the slashes for you in front of the backlashes and it just all goes wrong…
凯文：我以前从未做过。 哦，它坏了！ Safari 4不喜欢“ http：\”。 它在反冲之前为您添加了斜杠，但一切都出错了…
Patrick: You learn something new everyday on the SitePoint Podcast.
帕特里克：您每天都会在SitePoint播客中学习新知识。
Stephan: What I want to know is how many listeners out there actually use the other transfer protocols like gopher through their browser.
史蒂芬：我想知道的是，实际上有多少听众通过浏览器使用其他传输协议(例如gopher)。
Patrick: How many even know there are some?
帕特里克：多少甚至知道有一些？
Kevin: FTP seems to be other big one.
凯文： FTP似乎是另一个大问题。
Stephan: But do people still use it through their browser?
史蒂芬：但是人们仍然通过浏览器使用它吗？
Kevin: I doubt they type it but certainly there are probably links to – you can go here and down… You know, the open source sites when they’re…
凯文(Kevin)：我怀疑他们键入了它，但是肯定有可能链接到–您可以在这里上下浏览…您知道的，开放源代码站点是…
Patrick: I mean really, I could do the total accident one day. I was like, “Hey, I don’t need an FTP client? What is this?”
帕特里克：我的意思是说，真的，我有一天会发生全部事故。 我当时想：“嘿，我不需要FTP客户端吗？ 这是什么？”
Kevin: Yeah. I know when you know, if I’m going to download and this is not a good consumer example, but if I’m going to download the latest version of Ubuntu Linux or something like that, they’ll redirect me to the mirror and usually it’s an FTP address and it’s on a list of files.
凯文：是的。 我知道，如果您要下载并且这不是一个很好的用户示例，但是如果我要下载最新版本的Ubuntu Linux或类似的东西，他们会将我重定向到镜像并通常是一个FTP地址，并且在文件列表中。
Stephan: Yeah, but you’re a nerd.
斯蒂芬：是的，但是你是个书呆子。
Kevin: Yeah. Yeah.
凯文：是的。 是的
Moving on. “It’s one of the biggest causes of URL syntax errors,” it says? Ah, I guess, yeah. Yeah, I just, this morning, read a blog post by TomTom. They’re announcing that they finally got their iPhone mount for the in-car iPhone mount available on their online store and in their blog post the link, the writer of the link forgot to put ‘http://’ in front of it…
继续。 它说：“这是URL语法错误的最大原因之一。” 嗯，我想是的。 是的，我只是今天早上阅读了TomTom的博客文章。 他们宣布他们终于在网上商店获得了用于车载iPhone支架的iPhone支架，并在博客中发布了该链接，该链接的作者忘了在其前面加上“ http：//”…
Patrick: It’s a folder.
帕特里克：这是一个文件夹。
Kevin: …and so it just goes to www.tomtom.com in the current folder. Yeah. So it’s broken. So yeah, good point. There is plenty of broken links out there because of this kind of thing, I’m sure.
凯文： …所以它就转到当前文件夹中的www.tomtom.com。 是的 所以坏了。 是的，很好。 我敢肯定，由于这种事情，有很多断开的链接。
“An unimaginable quantity of printer ink, and paper has been wasted on the unnecessary characters.”
“不可思议的打印机墨水量和纸张已浪费在不必要的字符上。”
Stephan: Really? … Really.
斯蒂芬：真的吗？ …真的。
Kevin: Ahh, that’s going a bit far. ?Patrick: You mean that URL on the bottom of the page that when you print from a browser. I mean…
凯文：啊，那有点远。 ？ 帕特里克：您的意思是从浏览器打印时页面底部的URL。 我的意思是…
Kevin: Yeah, I guess.
凯文：是的，我猜。
Patrick: We could have fed a starving nation with all that ink.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我们本来可以让所有饥饿的人饱受痛苦。
Stephan: Hopefully, you weren’t sending them the ink.
斯蒂芬：希望您没有给他们寄出墨水。
Kevin: Taking a step back to the ‘www’ or no ‘www’ people who actually care about this kind of thing will be familiar with the two big sites out there, the no-www.org and yes-www.org. Man, that’s hard to say. It’s explaining why you should or should not have the ‘www’. I recommend also checking out www.www.extra-www.org, which is the site which advocates adding an extra ‘www’ to all of your addresses.
凯文(Kevin)：退回到“ www”或“ no” www的人们，实际上关心这种事情的人们将熟悉其中的两个大型网站，即no-www.org和yes-www.org 。 伙计，这很难说。 它在解释为什么您应该或不应该拥有“ www”。 我还建议您检查一下www.www.extra-www.org ，该网站主张在您的所有地址中添加一个额外的“ www”。
Patrick: You lost me.
帕特里克：你失去了我。
Kevin: Check it out, it’s hilarious.
凯文：看看，这很有趣。
I think we’ve killed this story.
我认为我们已经扼杀了这个故事。
Stephan: Dead.
史蒂芬：死了。
Kevin: Speaking of killing things, GeoCities is dead. It’s official. It’s gone.
凯文：谈到杀戮， 地理城已经死了。 这是官方的。 没了。
Patrick: Want to say a few words? GeoCities, you were a great friend. We grew up with you, in a way. We learned on you and we will miss you.
帕特里克：想说几句话？ GeoCities，您是个好朋友。 在某种程度上，我们与您一起成长。 我们了解了您，我们会想念您的。
Kevin: That’s touching.
凯文：令人感动。
Patrick: Thank you. Thank you.
帕特里克：谢谢。 谢谢。
Kevin: We spoke about GeoCities last in SitePoint podcast #14 and at that time it was just announced that Yahoo!, the owner of GeoCities these days, had decided to shut it down and just remove the hosting for all of these sites that people threw up there for free.
凯文：我们上次在SitePoint＃14播客中谈到了GeoCities，当时刚刚宣布， 如今的GeoCities所有者Yahoo!已决定将其关闭，并删除人们扔过的所有这些网站的托管免费在那里。
Patrick: It’s funny how that was a really quick point.
帕特里克：真是太快了，这很有趣。
Kevin: And the date has come. The day has come. This past Monday, I think, the site came down, October 26, 2009. And this was Yahoo!’s last and only at this time free web hosting service. So Yahoo! is no longer in the business of free web hosting unless you count hosting your Flickr photos for free but actually putting up web sites, Yahoo! doesn’t provide that for free anymore.
凯文：日期到了。 一天到了。 我认为，过去的星期一，该网站于2009年10月26日关闭。这是Yahoo!的最后一次也是唯一一次免费的虚拟主机服务。 雅虎！ 除非您指望免费托管Flickr照片，但实际上是在建立网站，否则Yahoo!将不再从事免费网络托管业务。 不再免费提供。
And when we last talked about it, we, like many other people out there were kind of hopeful that some of the efforts underway to encourage Yahoo! to save this piece of web legacy was going to pay off. That someone would be able to convince Yahoo! to hand over the keys to the hosting and preserve this piece of web history but it hasn’t… it’s gone down and there is no one place that you can access the GeoCities content anymore. A lot of people went through processes of backing up their own GeoCities site, the Web Archive had… They had a form up saying that “We’ve been working extra hard to spider GeoCities’ content and keep a record of it but if you look in our archive and you find that your GeoCities site is not in there yet, fill in this form with your address and we will move it to the front of the queue.”
当我们上一次谈论它时，我们和其他许多人一样，希望通过一些努力来鼓励Yahoo!。 保存这段网络遗产将获得回报。 有人可以说服雅虎！ 移交给托管服务器的密钥并保留这段网络历史记录，但是还没有……它已经崩溃了，再也没有地方可以访问GeoCities内容了。 很多人都在经历备份自己的GeoCities网站的过程，Web档案库……他们的形式是：“我们一直在加倍努力搜寻GeoCities的内容并对其进行记录，但是如果您看，在我们的档案中，您会发现您的GeoCities网站尚未存在，请在此表格中填写您的地址，我们会将其移到队列的最前面。”
So hopefully, anyone who wanted their site preserved was able to do so but those people who have forgotten about their sites and go back there Anonymous one day. It’s gone is the sad truth of it and if you go to geocities.yahoo.com now it says, “Sorry, GeoCities has closed” and suggests “visiting one of these popular Yahoo! sites, like Yahoo! Mail or Yahoo! Sports.”
因此，希望那些希望保留其站点的人能够做到这一点，但是那些忘记了站点并回到匿名站点的人。 它已经消失了，这是一个可悲的事实，如果您现在访问geocities.yahoo.com，它说：“对不起，GeoCities已关闭”，并建议“访问其中一种流行的Yahoo !！ 网站，例如Yahoo! 邮件或Yahoo! 体育。”
Patrick: I actually checked to see if my old GeoCities site was archived and it was by archive.org and the thing about it is though is my site was so old that they crawled it back in 2001 and they never needed to do it again.
帕特里克(Patrick)：实际上，我检查了我的旧GeoCities网站是否已存档，并且是由archive.org存档的，但问题是，我的网站太旧了，以至于2001年对其进行了爬网，因此不再需要再次进行。
Kevin: Wow.
凯文：哇。
Patrick: Not that I could get in because I simply could not but it’s always there for me should I ever want people to actually see it.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我不能进入是因为我根本做不到，但是如果我希望人们真正看到它，它就永远存在。
Kevin: There were a few things that happened on Monday to commemorate the event, xkcd, a popular web comic redesigned their site for one day and man, was it an eyesore.
凯文(Kevin)：星期一发生了一些纪念活动， xkcd是一本流行的网络漫画，它重新设计了他们的网站一天，而且让人眼花ore乱。
Did you guys get a chance to check that out while it was up?
你们有没有机会在结帐时检查一下？
Patrick: Unfortunately, I did not.
帕特里克：不幸的是，我没有。
Stephan: It was funny.
史蒂芬：这很有趣。
Patrick: I saw a screenshot, though, and it was on point.
帕特里克(Patrick)：不过，我看到了一个屏幕截图，而且很准确。
Kevin: Yeah, it was best experienced in its animated glory but mashable.com has a screenshot and we’ll link to that in the show notes. It was, as you’d expect, black background, thick borders, lots of gratuitous animated GIFs and plenty of broken images as well. Yeah, they had these standard broken image icons for Netscape and Internet Explorer all through there.
凯文：是的，在动画效果方面经验最丰富，但是mashable.com拥有屏幕截图 ，我们将在展示笔记中链接至该屏幕截图 。 如您所料，它是黑色背景，粗边框，大量免费的GIF动画和大量残破的图像。 是的，他们到处都有Netscape和Internet Explorer的这些标准的破碎图像图标。
Stephan: This was the golden age for iconography.
史蒂芬：这是图像学的黄金时代。
Kevin: [laughter] Oh, it was great. Plenty of Comic Sans in there, and if you were a real geek, you could view the source of the page and they had all sorts of tidbits in there. I’m not sure how much of it actually was functional but that nice, on the HTML tag for the page that WEB="2.0". It’s a nice QBasic code in there which at least in theory a properly configured version of Internet Explorer back in the day probably could have executed. <font face="Comic Sans MS">, oh man. Great stuff and again, I’ll put a link in the show notes to thread on the xkcd forms that sort of dissects the contents of that page.
凯文：(笑声)哦，太好了。 那里有大量的Comic Sans，如果您是一个真正的极客，则可以查看页面的源代码，并且其中包含各种花絮 。 我不确定在WEB="2.0"的页面HTML标记上实际上有多少功能可以使用，但是效果还不错。 这是一个很好的QBasic代码，至少从理论上讲，至少可以在一天中执行正确配置的Internet Explorer版本。 <font face="Comic Sans MS"> ，天哪。 再说一遍，我将在展示笔记中添加一个链接，以在xkcd表单上显示该页面的内容。
But there was a darker side to the reaction and we had a lot of people out there just condemning Yahoo!’s handling of the shutdown saying that “Yahoo!, even though you had people with their hands extended in friendship, ready to take on the burden of responsibility of keeping GeoCities live” they didn’t do anything about it. They didn’t accept any of those efforts. In fact, they were silent on it, on the issue entirely and were more than happy just to throw the switch on the servers when the day came.
但是React却是阴暗的一面，我们当中有很多人只是谴责雅虎对关闭的处理，他说：“雅虎！保持GeoCities生存的责任负担”，他们对此没有采取任何行动。 他们不接受任何这些努力。 实际上，他们在整个问题上都保持沉默，并且很乐意在一天到来时将交换机投入服务器。
Jeremy Keith was a loud voice in this story and he has a blog post up on his site called “Tears in the Rain” and I can’t actually read out parts of this because the language in it would get us a rating on iTunes that we would like to avoid.
杰里米·基思(Jeremy Keith)在这个故事中大声疾呼，他在自己的网站上发布了一篇名为“雨中的泪”的博客，但我实际上无法读出其中的一部分，因为其中的语言会给我们在iTunes上的评分，我们想避免。
Patrick, you were telling me earlier that you thought that this tone was irresponsible.
帕特里克(Patrick)，您之前曾告诉过我，您认为这种语气是不负责任的。
Patrick: Hi Jeremy, love you. No. [laughter]
帕特里克：你好，杰里米，爱你。 不[笑声]
Kevin: I have to say we are all fans of Jeremy Keith.
凯文：我必须说我们都是杰里米·基思的粉丝。
Patrick: No I mean, you see the problem I have with it is when you… there’s a couple of problem with this. The first problem is the vulgarity. There’s words in here, name-calling that are not just like what I would call low-level vulgarity but stuff that is pretty crude, pretty nasty, that a lot of people wouldn’t appreciate. And I think that when you… and maybe it’s emotion, maybe it’s his emotion and that’s fine, I respect that this is how he wants to come across, it’s his blog, cool, but I think it makes it easy for people to dismiss you when you’re – I don’t want to say, belligerent, but when you’re communicating in this manner and I think it’s irresponsible to do so, makes it easy for people to dismiss your point and the point gets lost because you turn people off when they’re just reading the post.
帕特里克：不，我的意思是，您看到的问题是当您……这有几个问题。 第一个问题是庸俗化。 这里有个名字叫话的词，不仅像我所说的低级粗俗，而且是相当粗糙，非常讨厌的东西，很多人不会欣赏。 我认为当您...也许是一种情感，也许是他的情感，那很好，我尊重这是他想要表达的方式，这是他的博客，很酷，但是我认为这很容易使人们解雇您当您–我不想说，交战时，但是当您以这种方式进行交流时，我认为这样做是不负责任的，这会使人们很容易忽略您的观点，并且由于您转身而失去了观点刚读完帖子的人就会离开。
And the other part of it is, of course, I guess assumptions about who made the decision to close GeoCities. I mean, sure there’s an outside perception that it’s probably some stuffy executive, who knows what what, but at the same time Yahoo! is a company staffed with techy people, with geeky people, with people who know the space and it’s feasible that someone who knows the Web pretty well made this decision, not just some old white businessman in a suit in a boardroom somewhere.
当然，另一部分当然是关于谁决定关闭GeoCities的假设。 我的意思是，肯定有外界了解这可能是一些闷闷不乐的高管，他知道什么，但同时Yahoo! 是一家由技术人员，令人讨厌的人，知道空间的人组成的公司，很了解网络的人可以做出这个决定，而不仅仅是某个在会议室的西装中的老白人商人，这是可行的。
I think, like, no assumptions and then maybe changing the tone of the message helps more people to reach it and helps people to take it seriously. That’s just my point. No disrespect.
我认为，例如，没有任何假设，然后也许更改信息的语气可以帮助更多的人了解它，并帮助人们认真对待它。 那只是我的意思。 别无礼
Kevin: It’s an interesting debate. I’ve listened to a podcast called – I’m not even sure I can say the name of it but it’s the Angry Mac … podcast, we’ll call it. I’ll be sure to post the link to it for people who want to check it out. But it is a few geeks who get together and swear a blue trail about idiots covering the Mac scene every week. And in a recent episode they were saying that they couldn’t understand why people didn’t take their message seriously just because of its tone. The fact that they choose to communicate in that tone, that angry, swear-filled way, should not prejudice people’s reactions to the content of their message. And while perhaps logically that argument is sound, I have to agree with you, Patrick, I do switch off as soon as someone starts yelling at me when they’re trying to make a point that I’m legitimately interested in. I just cannot take it in.
凯文：这是一个有趣的辩论。 我听过一个叫做–的播客–我什至不确定我可以说出它的名字，但是它是Angry Mac…播客 ，我们称之为。 我一定会为想要签出该链接的人发布该链接。 但是，有几个极客们聚在一起，发誓每星期都会有关于Mac场景的白痴的蓝色足迹。 在最近的一集中，他们说他们不明白为什么人们不仅仅因为信息的语气就认真对待他们的信息。 他们选择以那种生气，发誓的方式进行交流的事实，不应损害人们对其信息内容的React。 而且，虽然从逻辑上讲该论点是合理的，但我必须同意您的看法，帕特里克，当有人试图提出我有理由对我感兴趣的观点时，我会立即关闭我。拿进来。
Patrick: Yeah, I think that if we’re all… if you’re talking to a machine, I think that’s a reasonable conclusion that okay, don’t take my point. But you know, there’s a couple of different things here. First of all is, it’s not just – what you say is as important as how you say it because that determines whether or not people understand it, whether or not they can receive it. And if you take the average business person who’s held to a standard let’s say in communication, if the CEO of Yahoo! goes off in a rant like this, you know, I think it’s Carol Bartz, I’m not sure though – that person gets fired. So you have to look at it in that light too, like there’s a certain standard of communication that respectful people require of one another.
帕特里克：是的，我想如果我们都是…如果您正在与机器聊天，我认为这是一个合理的结论，好吧，请不要接受我的意思。 但您知道，这里有几件不同的事情。 首先，这不仅仅是-您所说的话与您说的话同样重要，因为它决定了人们是否理解它，以及他们是否可以接收它。 如果您采用的是保持标准的普通商务人士，那么在沟通中可以说Yahoo!的首席执行官 像这样咆哮着，你知道，我想是卡罗尔·巴茨(Carol Bartz)，但我不确定-这个人被解雇了。 因此，您也必须从这种角度来看待它，就像有礼貌的人们相互之间需要某种特定的交流标准。
It’s not just cursing for me because you know, that’ll turn off some people, sure, but it’s also the object of cursing – name calling. And that’s sort of stuff that adds to it for me as well. I can put up with a couple of swear words and I’m sure a lot of people can but if you want your message to reach as many people as possible, you need to make it accessible to as many as possible. They need to feel comfortable reading it from work or from anywhere and they need to be able to present to someone else. Now if you’re at Yahoo!, do you print out this post and take it to your boss where they are called all sorts of names? Probably not. ?Kevin: So in the spirit of taking this message that I think we agree is important… I mean, Jeremy links to Jason Scott who is one of the leaders of the effort to try and preserve the material on GeoCities and Jason Scott’s most recent post about this opens with “You’re stupid and I hate you.” Case in point… but I think Jeremy’s post, although maybe one-third inflammatory and impossible to read out on this show; I think there is some great stuff in there.
当然，这不仅是在诅咒我，因为我知道这会关闭某些人的权限，但这也是诅咒的对象–叫名字。 这也为我增加了一些东西。 我可以忍受几个脏话，我相信很多人都可以。但是，如果您希望您的消息能够传播到尽可能多的人，则需要使它尽可能多地被访问。 他们需要在工作中或在任何地方阅读时都感到舒服，并且需要能够呈现给其他人。 现在，如果您在Yahoo !，是否可以打印出此帖子并将其带到您的老板那里，他们被称为各种名字？ 可能不是。 ？ 凯文：所以本着接受这一信息的精神，我认为我们同意是重要的……我的意思是，杰里米与杰森·斯科特(Jason Scott)有联系，杰森·斯科特是努力保存GeoCities资料的负责人之一，而杰森·斯科特(Jason Scott)的最新文章开头是“你很愚蠢，我恨你。” 恰当的例子……但我认为杰里米(Jeremy)的帖子虽然有三分之一是煽动性的，并且无法在此节目中读出； 我认为里面有一些很棒的东西。
He says, “We’re losing a piece of internet history. We are losing the destinations of millions of inbound links but most importantly we’re losing people’s dreams and memories. GeoCities dies today. This is a bad day for the internet. It’s a bad day for our collective culture. In my opinion this is also a bad day for Yahoo! I for one will find it a lot harder to trust a company that finds this to be acceptable behavior despite the very cool and powerful APIs produced by the very smart and passionate developers within the same company. I hope that my friends who work at Yahoo! understand that when I pour vitriol upon their company, I am not aiming at them. Yahoo! has no shortage of clever people but clearly they are down in the trenches doing development, not in the upper echelons making the decision to butcher GeoCities.”
他说：“我们正在失去一段互联网历史。 我们正在失去数百万个入站链接的目的地，但最重要的是，我们正在失去人们的梦想和记忆。 GeoCities今天去世。 对于互联网来说，今天是糟糕的一天。 对于我们的集体文化来说，这是糟糕的一天。 我认为对于Yahoo!来说，今天也是糟糕的一天！ 我会发现，很难信任一家认为这是可以接受的行为的公司，尽管该公司中非常聪明和热情的开发人员生成了非常酷而强大的API。 我希望我在Yahoo!工作的朋友！ 我了解到，当我向他们的公司倒硫酸盐时，我并不是在瞄准他们。 雅虎！ 并不缺少聪明的人，但显然他们是在做开发的战，中，而不是在决定屠杀GeoCities的高层中。”
I have to leave it there because any further and it gets into some language.
我必须把它留在那里，因为任何进一步的东西都会变成某种语言。
Stephan: So they’re smart but they’re stupid at the same time, is what he’s saying.
斯蒂芬：所以他们很聪明，但同时又很愚蠢，这就是他的意思。
Patrick: You know there’s two trains of thought here. The first train of thought is that Yahoo! is destroying a portion of the Web, a portion of its history and that’s a bad move. The other train of thought that I think people have also is that you know, GeoCities gave a fair amount of notice. The sites have been online for a long time and it’s a business and if it’s not carrying its weight then it needs to go.
帕特里克：您知道这里有两种思路。 第一思路是雅虎！ 正在破坏一部分网络，一部分历史，这是一个错误的举动。 我认为人们也有另一种思路，那就是，GeoCities发出了很多通知。 这些网站已经存在很长一段时间了，这是一项业务，如果它没有发挥作用，就需要继续前进。
I think there’s a balance somewhere between idealism and realistic expectations and I think that that intersection is where we need to get to, at least for me.
我认为理想主义和现实期望之间存在某种平衡，至少在我看来，这种交集是我们需要去的地方。
Kevin: And I think the intersection there is where when the idealists extended their hands and were willing to do whatever it took to protect and preserve that piece of history. When Yahoo! ignored them and turn them down, I think that’s the crucial mistake that was made. I can’t blame them for not being able to sustain the expenses associated with hosting, however significant or insignificant they may have been. As you say, they are a business but when the Internet is willing to help you preserve a piece of itself and you don’t take them up on the offer, I can’t defend that.
凯文：我认为理想主义者在这里可以伸出双手，愿意为保护和保存那段历史而竭尽全力。 当雅虎！ 忽略它们并拒绝它们，我认为这是犯下的关键错误。 我不能责怪他们无法承受与托管相关的费用，无论它们可能是多么重要或无关紧要。 正如您所说，它们是一家公司，但是当Internet愿意帮助您保留其一部分并且您不接受它们时，我无法辩护。
Patrick: There’s separate questions there as well though, such as who permits these people to archive their content? Most people don’t have a voice in this. You have people who want to save content that for the most part isn’t theirs and that’s a separate debate, I guess, what entitlement they have to content created by other people? But yeah, I mean, that’s a separate point.
帕特里克(Patrick)：还有一个单独的问题，例如谁允许这些人归档他们的内容？ 大多数人对此没有发言权。 您有一些人想要保存大部分不是他们自己的内容，我想这是一个单独的辩论，我想他们对其他人创建的内容有什么权利？ 但是，是的，那是另外一个观点。
Kevin: Alright. Well let’s move to something a little… I was going to say a little less inflammatory but it’s politics and politics always, always brings that out in people. The whitehouse.gov site has re-launched itself yet again. This time it’s a behind the scenes change and Tim O’Reilly writes extensively about whitehouse.gov switching to Drupal, which is an open source PHP content management system and that it’s running on Red Hat Linux Apache, MySQL technology stack. And there’s a nice story here worth reading about how it was undertaken and the different parties involved, there’s at least four different companies involved in bringing this to fruition but it’s a great story for open source and possibly a great story for the US government as well.
凯文：好吧。 好吧，让我们谈谈一些……我要说的是少一些煽动性的东西，但是它总是在政治和政治中，总会在人们中引起人们的注意。 whitehouse.gov网站再次重新启动。 这次是幕后变更，Tim O'Reilly 撰写了大量关于whitehouse.gov切换到Drupal的文章，Drupal是一个开放源代码PHP内容管理系统，它运行在Red Hat Linux Apache，MySQL技术堆栈上。 这里有一个很好的故事，值得一读，它是如何进行的以及相关各方的参与，至少有四个不同的公司参与了这一工作的实现，但这对于开源来说是个好故事，对于美国政府来说也可能是个好故事。 。
Guys, I’m not American, you guys are. What do you think?
伙计们，我不是美国人，你们是。 你怎么看？
Patrick: We count you as one of us.
帕特里克：我们将您视为我们中的一员。
Kevin: Thank you.
凯文：谢谢。
Stephan: I think it’s pretty cool. I’m all for open source being used. If people on the show don’t know it, I work in the public sector so I try to push open source when I can and so I think this is a good venture. I think there’s also an opposing viewpoint. There’s an interesting article on Slate written by Chris Wilson and there’s a little bit of a political slant.
斯蒂芬：我认为这很酷。 我全都使用开放源代码。 如果演出中的人不知道，我会在公共部门工作，所以我会尽量推动开源，所以我认为这是一个很好的尝试。 我认为也有相反的观点。 克里斯·威尔逊(Chris Wilson) 在Slate上写了一篇有趣的文章，并且有些政治倾向。
Kevin: It’s not the Chris Wilson, is it?
凯文：这不是克里斯·威尔逊，是吗？
Stephan: No, he’s just a Slate writer. I’ve looked him up, I can’t find anything linking him to the other Chris Wilson.
斯蒂芬：不，他只是一位板岩作家。 我已经抬起头，找不到任何将他与其他克里斯·威尔逊联系起来的东西。
Kevin: It would be really weird if Microsoft’s Chris Wilson was writing on Slate about the whitehouse.gov site.
凯文(Kevin)：如果微软的克里斯·威尔逊(Chris Wilson)在Slate上写有关whitehouse.gov网站的信息，那真的很奇怪。
Stephan: Yeah, I don’t think it’s him.
斯蒂芬：是的，我不认为是他。
Patrick: No, it’s not. This is a separate Twitter account.
帕特里克：不，不是。 这是一个单独的Twitter帐户。
Stephan: Yeah. So this guy, if you can get past the political slant of the article, it’s pretty interesting because he points out some Drupal fall points where Drupal is struggling, such as upgrading and the fact that the structure is somewhat disorganized in the file system. There’s some interesting points and I think his best point that he makes, counter to what Tim O’Reilly is saying, he’s saying that recovery.gov actually used Drupal for a while and it was dropped and they decided to go with a private contractor at a reported cost of $18 million dollars to rework the site. So it’ll be interesting to see what the White House does with this and if it stays, the central piece of software there.
斯蒂芬：是的。 因此，这个人，如果您可以克服本文的政治偏见，那将非常有趣，因为他指出了Drupal难以解决的一些Drupal下降点，例如升级以及文件系统中的结构有些混乱的事实。 有一些有趣的观点，我认为他提出的最佳观点与蒂姆·奥雷利(Tim O'Reilly)所说的相反，他说的是recovery.gov实际上使用了Drupal了一段时间，被删除了，他们决定与一家私人承包商合作。据报道，对该网站进行改造的成本为1800万美元。 因此，有趣的是，看看白宫对此做了什么，如果留下来的话，那就是那里的中央软件。
Kevin: The fact that this was a purely behind the scenes change, that the site itself to its visitors has not changed at all, does that feel like a waste of resources to you guys?
凯文(Kevin)：事实上，这完全是幕后改变，访问者的网站本身完全没有改变，这对你们来说像是在浪费资源吗？
Patrick: Without seeing the past backend, I don’t know. Right? Because that’s probably what this is aimed at, I would say in large part is the behind the scene stuff and obviously they didn’t like what they saw, right?
帕特里克：不知道过去的后端，我不知道。 对？ 因为这可能就是针对的，所以我想说的主要是幕后的东西，显然他们不喜欢他们所看到的，对吧？
Kevin: Tim O’Reilly seems to like the move because he says that by switching to Drupal, at least initially, it makes no change to the site but it opens them up to taking advantage of the entire ecosystem around Drupal and it’ll make it easier for them to engage with social media and things like that in the future because they won’t have to write that into their own technology stack from scratch; they can just use plug-ins for Drupal that are developed by the open source community.
凯文：蒂姆·奥雷利(Tim O'Reilly)似乎很喜欢这一举动，因为他说，至少在最初，改用Drupal不会改变站点，但是可以利用Drupal周围的整个生态系统为他们开放，这将使他们将来更容易与社交媒体和诸如此类的事情互动，因为他们不必从头开始将其写入自己的技术堆栈中； 他们只可以使用开源社区开发的Drupal插件。
Does that ring true to you guys?
这对你们来说真的吗？
Stephan: I mean, yeah. I think it’s great that the government’s using open source stuff and maybe will contribute back to the open source project itself if you know… because you know they had to make some changes to the code to get it to work and I think it’s good that they’re moving away from a proprietary system that is probably costing us a lot of money and hopefully this is cheaper. I’d like to see a breakdown of it and if it’s true, it would be a great case study to see if it’s actually saving taxpayers money.
史蒂芬：我的意思是，是的。 我认为政府使用开放源代码的东西很好，并且如果您知道的话，也许会为开放源代码项目本身做出贡献……因为您知道他们必须对代码进行一些更改才能使其正常工作，而且我认为他们很好正在远离可能会花费我们很多钱的专有系统，希望它会更便宜。 我希望看到它的细目分类，如果是真的，那么这将是一个很好的案例研究，看看它是否真的在节省纳税人的钱。
Patrick: Yeah, I mean, Mr. O’Reilly touts this as a “big win for open source” but the flipside of that is it better work. Right? Because anything… And it’s almost an unfair standard I think that it might be held to by some because if there is a problem security wise, once, twice, or ever, then you know, it’s going to reflect very badly on open source and very badly on Drupal because it’s just a different level of exposure. I mean, how much bigger do you get than the White House. I mean, there’s not a whole lot of probably brighter lights or more scrutinized web sites probably. So if it succeeds, it’ll be a big boon for Drupal and our friend Brad Williams, but if it doesn’t, then obviously they’ll be open to a great deal of criticism. ?Kevin: Yeah. I wish Brad was here this week because he does do a fair bit of work with Drupal and he’d know a lot more of the technical side then we can speak to on this show.
帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我的意思是，奥赖利(O'Reilly)先生称赞这是“开源的一大胜利”，但其反面是更好的工作。 对？ 因为任何事情……而且这几乎是一个不公平的标准，我认为某些人可能会坚持使用它，因为如果在安全性方面存在问题，一次，两次甚至一次，那么您将知道，它将在开源方面非常糟糕，对Drupal不利，因为它只是一个不同的曝光级别。 我的意思是，您比白宫能得到多少收益。 我的意思是，可能没有很多可能更亮的灯光或更受审查的网站。 因此，如果成功了，这将对Drupal和我们的朋友布拉德·威廉姆斯(Brad Williams)来说是一个很大的福音，但是如果没有成功，那么显然他们将受到很多批评。 ？ 凯文：是的。 我希望布拉德本周来这里是因为他确实在Drupal方面做了很多工作，并且他会了解很多技术方面的知识，然后我们可以在本次展会上与之交谈。
But Tim O’Reilly’s story ends up – and you brush on this Stephan – that he is hoping that this will end up with up the government contributing back to open source. You know right now they’ve just taken Drupal and perhaps done some modifications to it to suit their purposes and no one knows what those modifications are and that if the government is embracing open source in all of its forms, they should be contributing whatever changes they make back to the community, and he suggests that just as the US government has launched a data.gov to open up government data to third party use, that they should release code.gov to release whatever open source code they may have written.
但是蒂姆·奥雷利(Tim O'Reilly)的故事到头来-而您也提到了斯蒂芬(Stephan)-他希望这最终将由政府为开源做出贡献。 您知道，现在他们刚刚采用了Drupal并可能对其进行了一些修改以适合其目的，并且没人知道这些修改是什么，并且如果政府采用各种形式的开源，则他们应该做出任何贡献他们回馈社区，他建议，就像美国政府启动data.gov来开放政府数据供第三方使用一样，他们也应该发布code.gov来发布他们可能编写的任何开源代码。
Stephan: I’m a little torn on that because do we really want people knowing what went into to make the White House site secure maybe… I mean, is that one thing we want hacked? I don’t know.
史蒂芬：我对此有些不知所措，因为我们是否真的想让人们知道使白宫网站安全的原因……我的意思是，这是我们想要入侵的一件事吗？ 我不知道。
Kevin: The purist view is that security by obscurity is no security at all and if they’re confident in the work that they’ve done then they should be able to release that code with no qualms whatsoever. I’m skeptical about just what amount of modifications they’ve done. Call me on this if you don’t think it’s right but my impression of government contracts for web technology like this is either it gets through or it doesn’t, either the proposal to switch to Drupal slips through all of the political cracks and then someone installs a pretty vanilla installation of Drupal and they do the work to make it look nice and that’s the end of the story. This theory that the US government has some sort of special team of hackers who will modify Drupal in extra secure ways that the open source community could never conceive of on their own, it seems like a pleasant fiction to me. I would be very surprised if there’s anything that’s been done to that Drupal code base that’s worth contributing back.
凯文(Kevin)：纯粹的观点是，默默无闻的安全性根本不是安全性，如果他们对自己所做的工作充满信心，那么他们应该能够毫无限制地发布该代码。 我对他们所做的修改量持怀疑态度。 如果您认为这是不对的，请致电给我，但我对网络技术的政府合同的印象是，要么通过，要么就没有通过，或者转向Drupal的提议在所有政治裂痕中流连忘返，然后有人安装了漂亮的Drupal原始安装，然后他们做了工作以使它看起来更漂亮，这就是故事的结尾。 这种理论认为，美国政府拥有某种特殊的黑客团队，他们将以额外的安全方式修改Drupal，这是开源社区永远无法独立设想的，对我而言，这似乎是一种令人愉快的小说。 I would be very surprised if there's anything that's been done to that Drupal code base that's worth contributing back.
Patrick: I detect a hint of jealousy as far as our lead hackers here. No, I’m just kidding.
Patrick: I detect a hint of jealousy as far as our lead hackers here. 不，我只是在开玩笑。
Kevin: [laughing] Jealousy, no. I would say skepticism.
Kevin: [laughing] Jealousy, no. I would say skepticism.
Patrick: I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. I think it’s a fair point and I share kind of Stephan’s skepticism about it. That’s the key, we don’t know what they did, and I think that’s maybe a good thing. I understand the point about obscurity and I guess that was Dr. Seuss who came up with that but you know, I think that… No, I’m just kidding but I think it’s true. I don’t see a reason for them to release like what they did security wise. If they make a new photo gallery thing, cool, distribute it. But the security stuff, I don’t really know if they need to be putting that out, if there’s a really great benefit to them doing so.
帕特里克：我只是在开玩笑。 我只是在开玩笑。 I think it's a fair point and I share kind of Stephan's skepticism about it. That's the key, we don't know what they did, and I think that's maybe a good thing. I understand the point about obscurity and I guess that was Dr. Seuss who came up with that but you know, I think that… No, I'm just kidding but I think it's true. I don't see a reason for them to release like what they did security wise. If they make a new photo gallery thing, cool, distribute it. But the security stuff, I don't really know if they need to be putting that out, if there's a really great benefit to them doing so.
Stephan: Here’s the point. Here’s the great point and I think this comes from the WordPress community, right. It doesn’t matter what you’re using as long as it gets the job done. Right? Because WordPress has always touted that “we’re here to let people write,” and it doesn’t matter what it looks like, right? It doesn’t…Wait, that’s the wrong word. It doesn’t matter what the framework is behind it as long as the content is being produced for the people, right. So we shouldn’t really care that it’s Drupal. It shouldn’t matter, right? I mean, yeah, it’s great that it is open source but at the end of the day, it’s just software to put some text on the internet, really, and some pictures. Really, I mean…
Stephan: Here's the point. Here's the great point and I think this comes from the WordPress community, right. It doesn't matter what you're using as long as it gets the job done. 对？ Because WordPress has always touted that “we're here to let people write,” and it doesn't matter what it looks like, right? It doesn't…Wait, that's the wrong word. It doesn't matter what the framework is behind it as long as the content is being produced for the people, right. So we shouldn't really care that it's Drupal. It shouldn't matter, right? I mean, yeah, it's great that it is open source but at the end of the day, it's just software to put some text on the internet, really, and some pictures. Really, I mean…
Patrick: Of course, you can’t really compare the White House web site to other government web sites. I mean, obviously, there’s probably some special consideration goes into that. It’s probably not your average everyday government contract either. I speak with no experience of course, but I would hope that there would be extra considerations. So I think hopefully it works out well, it reflects great on the open source community, everyone walks away happy and open source continues to grow.
Patrick: Of course, you can't really compare the White House web site to other government web sites. I mean, obviously, there's probably some special consideration goes into that. It's probably not your average everyday government contract either. I speak with no experience of course, but I would hope that there would be extra considerations. So I think hopefully it works out well, it reflects great on the open source community, everyone walks away happy and open source continues to grow.
Kevin: Microsoft CEO, Steve Ballmer, in an interview with the Associated Press has said that the internet was not made for the iPhone, which I suppose you can’t fault him on that but… I don’t know. This is a story from the Associated Press about how Windows 7 has revitalized the PC market and that the PC market is sprung into this variety of options, all of which are taking hardware design a lot more seriously than the PC world has in the past. We’ve moved from a world of beige boxes into slick and colorful machines that are suited to the individual tastes and needs of various users and that Windows 7 provides a flexible platform that suits everything from the smallest netbook to the biggest professional workstation and that competitors like Apple just can’t compete with that. What all that has to do with the internet and the iPhone is difficult to fathom but at the very end of this story, right down the bottom, I’ll just read it out here.
Kevin: Microsoft CEO, Steve Ballmer, in an interview with the Associated Press has said that the internet was not made for the iPhone, which I suppose you can't fault him on that but… I don't know. This is a story from the Associated Press about how Windows 7 has revitalized the PC market and that the PC market is sprung into this variety of options, all of which are taking hardware design a lot more seriously than the PC world has in the past. We've moved from a world of beige boxes into slick and colorful machines that are suited to the individual tastes and needs of various users and that Windows 7 provides a flexible platform that suits everything from the smallest netbook to the biggest professional workstation and that competitors like Apple just can't compete with that. What all that has to do with the internet and the iPhone is difficult to fathom but at the very end of this story, right down the bottom, I'll just read it out here.
“Microsoft has more to contend with than computers running other operating systems. People have begun to use such gadgets as the iPhone as tiny mobile computers. But Ballmer scorns the idea that smart phones could unseat PCs as the technology of choice for on the go consumers. “Let’s face it. The internet was designed…” this is quoting Ballmer… “Let’s face it, the internet was designed for the PC. The internet is not designed for the iPhone,” Ballmer said. “That’s why they’ve got 75,000 applications. They’re all trying to make the internet look decent on the iPhone.”
“Microsoft has more to contend with than computers running other operating systems. People have begun to use such gadgets as the iPhone as tiny mobile computers. But Ballmer scorns the idea that smart phones could unseat PCs as the technology of choice for on the go consumers. “Let's face it. The internet was designed…” this is quoting Ballmer… “Let's face it, the internet was designed for the PC. The internet is not designed for the iPhone,” Ballmer said. “That's why they've got 75,000 applications. They're all trying to make the internet look decent on the iPhone.”
Patrick: Um, I think what happened is he was asked about it. I mean, that’s how… If someone probably asked him, “So how do you compete with cell phones?”
Patrick: Um, I think what happened is he was asked about it. I mean, that's how… If someone probably asked him, “So how do you compete with cell phones?”
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.
凯文：是的，是的。
Patrick: Knowing how reporters go about their business. I think it’s probably true but I think what it is… Obviously, the internet is not designed for mobile phones (throw aside the iPhone). That’s why we have development now being led in the mobile direction. There are people creating mobile versions of their web sites so can they tap into that audience. Obviously, most web sites are designed first and foremost for the desktop or the laptop, normal computer, but then there is this whole new audience that really maybe doesn’t use the computer very much and there’s some money to be made for that audience. So that’s why people are tapping into it. So I don’t look at it as an either/or scenario. I look at it as here’s a way we can make more money and get more traffic so you know, people are now developing their sites for mobile devices or creating apps to make their sites easier to access or their data more easier to access, from booking flights to any kind of service that you purchase; it’s a new audience to tap into.
Patrick: Knowing how reporters go about their business. I think it's probably true but I think what it is… Obviously, the internet is not designed for mobile phones (throw aside the iPhone). That's why we have development now being led in the mobile direction. There are people creating mobile versions of their web sites so can they tap into that audience. Obviously, most web sites are designed first and foremost for the desktop or the laptop, normal computer, but then there is this whole new audience that really maybe doesn't use the computer very much and there's some money to be made for that audience. So that's why people are tapping into it. So I don't look at it as an either/or scenario. I look at it as here's a way we can make more money and get more traffic so you know, people are now developing their sites for mobile devices or creating apps to make their sites easier to access or their data more easier to access, from booking flights to any kind of service that you purchase; it's a new audience to tap into.
Kevin: Yeah. If we trying to squint through Ballmer’s typically glib quote here. I think that’s my biggest annoyance with him is he always tries to distill serious issues down to something that he can laugh off to Microsoft’s advantage. But the core question here is whether the mobile internet will take the form of a browser or whether it will take the form of applications which access internet-based services. So conventional wisdom or at least what I’ve been hearing in a few years up to this point is that, especially in developing countries, people aren’t buying PCs; they’re buying mobile phones and in those countries a lot of people’s first experience of the Web is on a mobile phone handset screen. And that user base is growing a lot more quickly than the desktop PC or laptop computer market is growing in the rest of the world. And so in the next decade or so, we can expect the mobile internet user base to outstrip the people sitting in front of a computer and a keyboard.
凯文：是的。 If we trying to squint through Ballmer's typically glib quote here. I think that's my biggest annoyance with him is he always tries to distill serious issues down to something that he can laugh off to Microsoft's advantage. But the core question here is whether the mobile internet will take the form of a browser or whether it will take the form of applications which access internet-based services. So conventional wisdom or at least what I've been hearing in a few years up to this point is that, especially in developing countries, people aren't buying PCs; they're buying mobile phones and in those countries a lot of people's first experience of the Web is on a mobile phone handset screen. And that user base is growing a lot more quickly than the desktop PC or laptop computer market is growing in the rest of the world. And so in the next decade or so, we can expect the mobile internet user base to outstrip the people sitting in front of a computer and a keyboard.
Patrick: Relating to this, I was at a panel at Blog World Expo about reaching multicultural audiences and my friend Wayne Sutton was on it and a member in the audience, said “how do I reach…” I think he was saying inner city… “How do we reach inner city kids that maybe don’t use or care about a computer or laptop as much?” And one of the panelists answered, “Well, they may not care about that but I bet you if they don’t already, they’ll soon have a mobile phone that will be accessing the Web and that’s how you reach them.” So it is a separate audience that can be reached and I think that plays into your point.
Patrick: Relating to this, I was at a panel at Blog World Expo about reaching multicultural audiences and my friend Wayne Sutton was on it and a member in the audience, said “how do I reach…” I think he was saying inner city… “How do we reach inner city kids that maybe don't use or care about a computer or laptop as much?” And one of the panelists answered, “Well, they may not care about that but I bet you if they don't already, they'll soon have a mobile phone that will be accessing the Web and that's how you reach them.” So it is a separate audience that can be reached and I think that plays into your point.
Kevin: So right now when you’re designing a new site, typically you design the desktop experience and then if you’ve got money left over or if your demographics justify it, you’ll develop a mobile phone version of your site. But I think the day is coming soon when your market research will tell you to develop the mobile version of the site first, depending on your audience. So there, Steve Ballmer. [laugh]
Kevin: So right now when you're designing a new site, typically you design the desktop experience and then if you've got money left over or if your demographics justify it, you'll develop a mobile phone version of your site. But I think the day is coming soon when your market research will tell you to develop the mobile version of the site first, depending on your audience. So there, Steve Ballmer. [laugh]
I think the idea that the desktop browser experience is somehow special and will forever define the web experience, provide the primary one, the one that people most associate with the Web. I think that’s very naïve.
I think the idea that the desktop browser experience is somehow special and will forever define the web experience, provide the primary one, the one that people most associate with the Web. I think that's very naïve.
Stephan: My biggest hangup with what he’s saying is that most people don’t walk around with a netbook and pull it out and get on the internet.
Stephan: My biggest hangup with what he's saying is that most people don't walk around with a netbook and pull it out and get on the internet.
What I’m saying is just that even people with other phones, Android, whatever, the G1, when they go out, they’re not pulling out their netbook to get on the internet when they’re walking down the street or to check their email or something; they’re pulling out their phone. So the idea that it was designed for the PC and not for what people are doing now I think is a fallacy. I think that it’s changing, it’s shifting. Sure, it may not have been designed initially for the PC but that’s changing now. And I’m sorry, Ballmer, times change. People are moving away from the normal idea of a computer. ?Kevin: I’m hesitant to even bring up the fact that Microsoft has a mobile phone platform of their own because it almost feels like a cheap shot to bring it up. But in the past two weeks Microsoft has released Windows Mobile 6.5, which has a whole series of phones from different manufacturers running that operating system and, of course, it’s got a web browser on it.
What I'm saying is just that even people with other phones, Android, whatever, the G1, when they go out, they're not pulling out their netbook to get on the internet when they're walking down the street or to check their email or something; they're pulling out their phone. So the idea that it was designed for the PC and not for what people are doing now I think is a fallacy. I think that it's changing, it's shifting. Sure, it may not have been designed initially for the PC but that's changing now. And I'm sorry, Ballmer, times change. People are moving away from the normal idea of a computer. ？ Kevin: I'm hesitant to even bring up the fact that Microsoft has a mobile phone platform of their own because it almost feels like a cheap shot to bring it up. But in the past two weeks Microsoft has released Windows Mobile 6.5, which has a whole series of phones from different manufacturers running that operating system and, of course, it's got a web browser on it.
Stephan: Oh, it shouldn’t. They should take that off; it’s not designed for it.
Stephan: Oh, it shouldn't. They should take that off; it's not designed for it.
Kevin: [laughs]
Kevin: [laughs]
Patrick: I don’t think he’s saying that mobile phones are going to disappear; I think he’s saying that the Internet is going to be primarily driven by desktop use for the foreseeable future and I think whether or not you agree with that is the discussion.
Patrick: I don't think he's saying that mobile phones are going to disappear; I think he's saying that the Internet is going to be primarily driven by desktop use for the foreseeable future and I think whether or not you agree with that is the discussion.
Kevin: So what does that say about the company’s priorities when the CEO on the week that they’re launching a new mobile phone operating system with a browser in it is saying “the internet wasn’t designed for mobile phones.”
Kevin: So what does that say about the company's priorities when the CEO on the week that they're launching a new mobile phone operating system with a browser in it is saying “the internet wasn't designed for mobile phones.”
Patrick: It’s also because they’re launching their new operating system. Windows 7 is probably the priority.
Patrick: It's also because they're launching their new operating system. Windows 7 is probably the priority.
Kevin: Right.
凯文：对。
Stephan: It comes back to Kevin’s point about the developing countries because you’ve got China, you got India, you’ve got a lot of South American countries that are all developing and all getting a large number of cell phone users because it’s easy to have a cell phone. It is not easy to have a landline to the internet in your house.
Stephan: It comes back to Kevin's point about the developing countries because you've got China, you got India, you've got a lot of South American countries that are all developing and all getting a large number of cell phone users because it's easy to have a cell phone. It is not easy to have a landline to the internet in your house.
Patrick: I mean these points are going to be business driven too. I mean let’s not forget in a way, I mean, Microsoft has a foothold in a desktop market so, of course, they’re going to have vested interest in desktops. Apple has obviously this huge, huge foothold in the mobile industry with the iPhone and its massive sales so they’re going to be interested in that side of the Web and pushing that. There’s always a business side to it.
Patrick: I mean these points are going to be business driven too. I mean let's not forget in a way, I mean, Microsoft has a foothold in a desktop market so, of course, they're going to have vested interest in desktops. Apple has obviously this huge, huge foothold in the mobile industry with the iPhone and its massive sales so they're going to be interested in that side of the Web and pushing that. There's always a business side to it.
Kevin: Alright. Guys, it’s been a chockablock episode but let’s get to our spotlights before we sign off here.
凯文：好吧。 Guys, it's been a chockablock episode but let's get to our spotlights before we sign off here.
Stephan, what have you got for our listeners?
Stephan, what have you got for our listeners?
Stephan: I actually have an interesting video, kind of funny, kind of irrelevant to everything that we’ve talked about.
Stephan: I actually have an interesting video, kind of funny, kind of irrelevant to everything that we've talked about.
Kevin: That’s how spotlights are best.
Kevin: That's how spotlights are best.
Stephan: Yes. It is a video about where goldfish come from and it’s Leelefever of Common Craft. They make the little paper animations that explain things. Paperworks, yes. Thank you, Patrick. And it’s a really interesting 5-minute video at Ignite Seattle and Where Goldfish Come From… Apparently, he grew up on a fish farm, grew up the son of a goldfish farmer in North Carolina and he shares his story. It’s really interesting, kind of funny, and just a fun watch.
斯蒂芬：是的。 It is a video about where goldfish come from and it's Leelefever of Common Craft. They make the little paper animations that explain things. Paperworks, yes. Thank you, Patrick. And it's a really interesting 5-minute video at Ignite Seattle and Where Goldfish Come From… Apparently, he grew up on a fish farm, grew up the son of a goldfish farmer in North Carolina and he shares his story. It's really interesting, kind of funny, and just a fun watch.
Kevin: I haven’t seen this video. Is this like the birds and bees for fish? Or is there some deep message in this video that we can look forward to? Or is it really just, here’s what you may not know about how goldfish farming happens.
Kevin: I haven't seen this video. Is this like the birds and bees for fish? Or is there some deep message in this video that we can look forward to? Or is it really just, here's what you may not know about how goldfish farming happens.
Stephan: It’s just about how goldfish farming, you know, what his experience has been in goldfish farming, growing up in that industry and what his dad’s dream of doing this and stuff. It’s a good story.
Stephan: It's just about how goldfish farming, you know, what his experience has been in goldfish farming, growing up in that industry and what his dad's dream of doing this and stuff. It's a good story.
Patrick: Yes, it is. It does have some insight to it, I think. I’ve watched it.
Patrick: Yes, it is. It does have some insight to it, I think. I've watched it.
Kevin: My spotlight this week is a pair of videos by Merlin Mann who many people may know from the site 43folders.com. They may know his Inbox Zero video from a talk he gave at Google a while back but he occasionally does video blogging on Vimeo and he in the past week released a couple of videos. The first was a little concerning to some people. It’s called “Merlin Labs! 5 Surprising House Hacks” and he basically goes on a rant about how… It’s really hard to explain. He explains how common household objects that you may have been using for Web 2.0 social media purposes can actually be used for common household tasks.
Kevin: My spotlight this week is a pair of videos by Merlin Mann who many people may know from the site 43folders.com. They may know his Inbox Zero video from a talk he gave at Google a while back but he occasionally does video blogging on Vimeo and he in the past week released a couple of videos. The first was a little concerning to some people. It's called “Merlin Labs! 5 Surprising House Hacks” and he basically goes on a rant about how… It's really hard to explain. He explains how common household objects that you may have been using for Web 2.0 social media purposes can actually be used for common household tasks.
For example, the idea bulb that you hold above your head every time you have an idea, you can actually screw it in to a light fixture and use it to light a room of your house. That’s the first one of his five surprising house hacks and they get crazier from there. And the reaction to this video—which I have to say may not be entirely safe for work, there is a bit of language in that video—there were some people worrying that Merlin had lost his marbles and so the very next day, he followed it up with a much longer, something like 45-minute long video called “Makebelieve Help, Old Butchers, and Figuring Out Who You Are (For Now),” and in that video he kind of explains the point he was trying to make with his insane House Hacks video. He explains first of all, that the straw that broke the camel’s back that led him to make that video was a post on lifehacker explaining that when you have food caked on to pots and pans in your kitchen, a good hack to get them clean is to soak them overnight in your sink with dish detergent.
For example, the idea bulb that you hold above your head every time you have an idea, you can actually screw it in to a light fixture and use it to light a room of your house. That's the first one of his five surprising house hacks and they get crazier from there. And the reaction to this video—which I have to say may not be entirely safe for work, there is a bit of language in that video—there were some people worrying that Merlin had lost his marbles and so the very next day, he followed it up with a much longer, something like 45-minute long video called “Makebelieve Help, Old Butchers, and Figuring Out Who You Are (For Now),” and in that video he kind of explains the point he was trying to make with his insane House Hacks video. He explains first of all, that the straw that broke the camel's back that led him to make that video was a post on lifehacker explaining that when you have food caked on to pots and pans in your kitchen, a good hack to get them clean is to soak them overnight in your sink with dish detergent.
Patrick: Is that a hack?
Patrick: Is that a hack?
Kevin: Yeah, exactly. So his…
凯文：是的，确实如此。 So his…
Stephan: It sounds like washing the dishes to me.
Stephan: It sounds like washing the dishes to me.
Kevin: [laugh] So his overriding point here is that there are people out there who are in the business of wasting your time by drowning you in productivity hacks and that the real key to being productive is knowing when to turn off those streams of noise and actually put your head down and be productive. And as creative people online, we do need to expose ourselves to that noise as a source of inspiration and ideas but we also need to be very good at knowing when to switch it off and when to do the hard work and that these sites like lifehacker.com, it’s not in their interest to ever tell you, “Okay, it’s time to close your RSS reader and get some work done now.” Rather, they are in the business of leading you on to the next ridiculous hack. And so if this interests you at all, this is a really… The first video, once you know what he’s on about is absolutely hysterically hilarious and the second video, if this is meaningful stuff to you, is really inspiring and it’s kind of a preview of what is coming in the book that Merlin is working on.
Kevin: [laugh] So his overriding point here is that there are people out there who are in the business of wasting your time by drowning you in productivity hacks and that the real key to being productive is knowing when to turn off those streams of noise and actually put your head down and be productive. And as creative people online, we do need to expose ourselves to that noise as a source of inspiration and ideas but we also need to be very good at knowing when to switch it off and when to do the hard work and that these sites like lifehacker.com, it's not in their interest to ever tell you, “Okay, it's time to close your RSS reader and get some work done now.” Rather, they are in the business of leading you on to the next ridiculous hack. And so if this interests you at all, this is a really… The first video, once you know what he's on about is absolutely hysterically hilarious and the second video, if this is meaningful stuff to you, is really inspiring and it's kind of a preview of what is coming in the book that Merlin is working on.
Patrick: That sounds great.
Patrick: That sounds great.
Kevin: Yeah. Patrick, what’s your spotlight?
凯文：是的。 Patrick, what's your spotlight?
Patrick: My spotlight is a post from Chris Brogan at chrisbrogan.com. It’s “What It Takes To Be An Overnight Success” and it’s a short post with a nice little video. It’s a minute long, you can digest it in a couple of minutes, and basically, you know, he gets people to look at him and say that he’s an overnight success or he gets something because he’s Chris Brogan. And it’s silly because of all the work that goes into what he does. And in the video he shows that he got to bed at 12, fell asleep at 3, up at 5:30, flying to another conference. And basically the story is the work that goes into the success that you see in other people. So I definitely recommend checking it out and giving the video a watch for a bit of perspective about success.
Patrick: My spotlight is a post from Chris Brogan at chrisbrogan.com. It's “What It Takes To Be An Overnight Success” and it's a short post with a nice little video. It's a minute long, you can digest it in a couple of minutes, and basically, you know, he gets people to look at him and say that he's an overnight success or he gets something because he's Chris Brogan. And it's silly because of all the work that goes into what he does. And in the video he shows that he got to bed at 12, fell asleep at 3, up at 5:30, flying to another conference. And basically the story is the work that goes into the success that you see in other people. So I definitely recommend checking it out and giving the video a watch for a bit of perspective about success.
Kevin: Alright. Well that’s the end of an episode. To all our listeners in countries where Halloween is a thing, Happy Halloween for this weekend.
凯文：好吧。 Well that's the end of an episode. To all our listeners in countries where Halloween is a thing, Happy Halloween for this weekend.
Patrick: Boo!
Patrick: Boo!
Kevin: Let’s go around the table, guys.
Kevin: Let's go around the table, guys.
Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network, ifroggy.com and on Twitter @ifroggy.
Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network, ifroggy.com and on Twitter @ifroggy .
Stephan: This is Stephan Segraves from Houston, Texas. You can find me on Twitter @ssegraves.
Stephan: This is Stephan Segraves from Houston, Texas. You can find me on Twitter @ssegraves .
Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint is on Twitter @sitepointdotcom. Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and subscribe to get every show automatically. Email podcast@sitepoint.com if you have something to tell us or something to ask us, we’d love to hear from you.
Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint is on Twitter @sitepointdotcom . Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and subscribe to get every show automatically. Email podcast@sitepoint.com if you have something to tell us or something to ask us, we'd love to hear from you.
This episode of the SitePoint Podcast was produced by Karn Broad and I’m Kevin Yank. Bye for now!
这集SitePoint播客是由Karn Broad制作的，我叫Kevin Yank。 暂时再见！
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
谢谢收听！ 欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。
翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-34-sorry-about-the-slashes/
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