The antidote for doubt: Forging your voice and building your community

Hello. Hello, everyone. How are you all doing? Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Welcome to AWS Women of the Cloud and welcome back to those who joined the first breakout session this morning. My name is Laa Drain and I lead inclusion diversity and equity for Amazon Web Services. And I'm joined today by Mary Law and Maria Tomalin and they're gonna introduce themselves.

Maria, you wanna start?

Hi, everyone. Maria Canini co-founder and louder. Hello. Can you hear me? Did I eat something? Uh so how then um so Maria co-founder, n coo of gamers say for better? Yeah. Ok. Uh prior to gamer safer, i had an impact career working, promoting the un sustainable goals in latin america fighting the hardest challenge you can imagine. My family was relocated to california a few years ago. And then it was when i got connected with technology and all the potential technology had to impact humanity. So i decided to transition my career to technology. Uh started working with organizations promoting tech for good tom that led me to profound gamer safer, which is a thank you. It's really hard like getting started like this, but i promise i'll give my best. Um uh so that led me to co found gamer safer. Uh we are fighting frauds crimes and toxic behaviors in online games and uh online communities and i forgot what i was going to say. We are impacting 50 million players in s um 67 countries every day. And this number means a lot to me because impact is, you know, what leads me to be seated here today and i hope what we share with you all today always uh also drives something impactful for your personal lives. Thank you.

It's um mary. So my name is mary. Can you guys girls hear me? Yeah, cool. So um i've been with amazon for about four years, four months and three days. Um as you can tell, i'm a very data driven person. Um so i'm actually the a pj data enablement lead. And previously i have been leading some of the solution architect helping customers um driving data inside in the cloud. Apart from my day job, i'm also the president of aws she builds um where we actually share with the underrepresented um community to have that confidence to empower and to support them to get a role or to learn more about the cloud technology. Very happy to be here today talking to you though these flats for she bills anybody a part of she bills give it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ok. Ok. And a little, a little something about maria that she didn't mention she actually was a part of our latino impact accelerator program, aws impact latino accelerator. So, thank you for that.

Ok. All right. I'm gonna kick off the questions we'll start with you, mary, explain to us the difference between mentorship and sponsorship.

Yeah. So i would actually add one more to that coach as well. So as we have progressed in different stages in our career, right? I mean, for the younger generation that join a new company, that's where a coach comes in, right? Um especially for me and a tech, i actually help and encourage some of the interns or other team members. Hey, how do you do actually start hands on getting to know some of technology, where should you start? And as you move towards the mentorship, this is where we talked about giving career guidance as sounding boards where we actually can give our advice, right? Because we've been there doing that to give that mentorship. And as we actually progress further, we will become a sponsor where we actually mention some of the people that's not in the room, but we will actually be there to open the door for them. As to that.

Uh maria explained to us the difference between mentorship and sponsorship and also talked to us about the benefits of these types of relationships. As, as she was talking, i was thinking about my own journey because i learned about sponsorship, i think four years ago, um so i didn't know it existed, so i never asked it for it. So here it goes for you. Um so mentorship is important. I think it's very specific, especially when you are in my case, uh when you are transitioning your career to a specific industry, you are not super familiar with and etcetera. I think getting that specific support from someone that is really knowledgeable, helps. Um and that person, you can create a connection that goes through life, of course, but i think it sponsorship, it means putting your reputation on the line and using your resources to support another person. And that was something that was really life changing for me. I don't have like that many sponsors, but that field that i have really changed my, my career completely and my personal development as well.

So just to give you a few examples, one of the sponsors led me to uh our lead investors and whenever we're talking about diversity inclusion, also money counts, right? So having that introduction from someone that was already in connect connected with that person was so important because i wasn't starting um like in the regular line, sending an email called one et cetera, et cetera. Of course, that i, i had to do my job uh and in earning their trust and presenting our company pitching like no one et cetera, but that was super important and they are current investor uh right now.

Uh another person, it started as a mentor in a program that i was part of in stanford. I met him. He was very technical and we had like three months of mentorship together, uh fabulous person. It was like a very good match. And then he just kept going after the program ended, i guess, like i also did my job making sure he was impressed and wanna keep working with us. Now, he's our advisor uh in our company and also my, my personal sponsor, he opens doors for me, make referrals, introduce me to people that i don't know. And as someone that, you know, moved from brazil to a new country and i'm a very good in making connections. I love learning more from other people, but i haven't lived here my whole life. So he for sure knows a lot of people that i don't know. So leveraging those contacts was important for me also to, you know, finding new talents, you know, um meeting new customers and things like that.

So i think the sponsorship means that that person is putting their resources at your service because you have a connection uh and you build trust with them.

You know, you said something when you first started to talk, you talked about how you didn't even know sponsorship existed. And i just wanna make sure that that lands on the room like you deserve a sponsor. Most people sitting next to you in the rooms you're in, especially if you're in tech, they have a sponsor and sometimes that's how they get in those rooms. So think about that, if you don't have a sponsor, you should seek out a sponsor, you should expect a sponsor to actually help navigate you through your career.

So thank you for that. Can i just add something, please? Um i also learned when i learned about sponsorship, i realized that i was a sponsor for many women, for many people that i used to mentor, especially in the social impact space. And then when i transitioned to gaming also, which is a very male dominated space. As you know, i started to collaborate and to help a lot of women. And i was doing that, i was making those connections, i was putting my resources um to support them. And i didn't know that was called the sponsorship and it was really, you know, sad for me to realize that i was so good in doing for other people and so bad in doing for myself.

Uh so that's also something um for women that are in the room. Like, don't just go ahead the no, it's guaranteed. But if you get a yes, that's the, yes, that can change your life.

There's also something very special about paying it forward and you paid it forward. And so no matter what, it's gonna come back around to you. So at least now though, you know, until these days i have uh 30 minutes currently, every week on friday where i give back to other women so they can schedule 30 minutes call with me to discuss whatever they want in their career. Usually, you know, the one that comes refers another one and et cetera. So i save that 30 minutes call every friday to support other women. And i it's interesting because it feels like i am giving something. But whenever i'm those calls, i'm learning so much from them. I am energizing myself. I'm inspired by their stories, sometimes like really challenging stories. So i think i'm also getting a lot from those connections in those calls even though it's just 30 minutes, but it changed my life as well.

I love that. I love that mary talk to us about a time that you sponsored or mentored someone.

So i actually have different mentor myself. And my recommendation is your mentor will be someone that will eventually become your friend. Like and it's a two way street, right? You learned a lot from your mentee, you learn a lot as a mentor. So um i actually mentor different people at work. Um and even outside of work and of course, with the sheep bills, but my own mental journey has been up and down because at different stages in your career, you will need different mentor for different purpose.

Like let me give you the example. My first job was actually in support. So when i move into consulting, i actually have a mentor that shows me, hey, what is the best way of dealing with customer relationship? Um and then i actually have a mentor to kind of get me to be more assertive because like, as an asian sometimes i was just like, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um and then towards the end of my leadership, i wanted to be a better leader. So i actually have a very strong woman in the leadership role that i actually looked up to her. And i actually reached out to her and ask her whether she would be more than happy to be my mentor. But um and happily, last night, we just have a face to face catch up because we are more than just mentor and mentee

"We're like friends now. Um on the, on the other hand, I'm actually mentoring um one of the people who wanted to switch the career right from an operational and they wanted to switch into tech. So, and I love doing that because like when you share someone with some, someone they will actually pay it forward similar to share bills. Our mentorship program have actually expanded and if we want to start paying for, hopefully all this little small change will actually be a bigger force of good.

Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much, Mary.

So you both have talked about how mentorship and sponsorship is shown up in your own career. You've talked about advice to about making the most out of those relationships. So now I want you to tell me in what ways has your career decisions affected how you contribute to your own community? Anybody want to start Maria?

Um it's, it's, it's a tricky question for me because when I co-founded Gamers Gamer Safer, I felt that I was founding a company for me. I felt that I was founding something where I could find belonging and build a culture that I believe. So, all my decisions were based on that and now that, you know, the company is established and that we are growing. I think my role has been empower other people to continue this story and make sure that other people feel welcome and feel embraced as we evolve and grow.

So most of my decisions are based. If I feel that I, I'm welcome in, in many spaces and the tricky part whenever I started working with games, I had to, I think work a little harder to find those spaces, but they are there. And once I found them, I, I found my way to stay and amplify in bringing more people in. So I think I couldn't do anything without a community. Community is basically and now we are building community as well.

Some of the products and services we are developing, we are engaging, you know, servers, for example, from Minecraft and moderators and administrators from Discord communities in everything we are building and by doing that I think we changed the whole game. We are developing faster, we are developing things that people want and we're finding that common ground that glue that connects us.

So I think community is, you know, something that really changed the game.

So your career decision for yourself was to create something for yourself because you knew what it meant to create something where you could feel as though you belong and you did that then for the community. That's beautiful.

Yeah. Another, another thing that I haven't mentioned, I co founded a company. Um my co-founder is also one of my number one sponsors and I think I, I think I couldn't co found a company with someone that is not putting everything they have on the line for me with all the data we have available, you know, regarding women in tech, women in games with Latinas in technology and all of that.

So I think that is also a very important point because I decided to co found with someone that is cheering for me. That is open doors for me as much as I'm willing to do, you know. So I think that is also something important and he is aligned with the culture we we want to create and that is the safe space that I, I want for me. Amazing.

So Mary, in what ways have your career decisions affected how you contribute to your community?

Yeah. So um I was born in Hong Kong, but I moved to Australia when I was very young. So my whole family, my cousins, my brothers, every one of them is actually in accounting because like born in Asian family, your parents kind of expect you to be a lawyers or canton.

Um but I actually, I'm very interested in tech and I just wanted to do something that's different. So when I can start my career journey, it has not been easy because like, I've been in the industry for quite some time. I'm not going to share how long I was going to expose my age.

Um but I was always been the only woman in the room of colors. Like um when we have those meeting with the, the data officer, the line of business. And this is when I thought to myself, we need more women in the room.

So when I actually um join AWS or even at all, the other organization that I'm with, one of the very first thing that I would do is I would try to make an environment a more inclusive one.

So when I was hired at AWS, I was the first one for a PJ looking after the post of support for specialist time, right? As a specialist time, you look after all the, all the customers. But I need, I know that we need more time that is women or different, more of us different and more diverse.

So we actually work with some other time to put a narrative, it called the Equilibrium program. We where we actually um adjusted the job description and even some of the road guideline as to what does that on boarding looks like? Right. And then to actually try to build a more inclusive environment where we can have more offers, helping the customers.

And then when I start building the team, I've been thinking about that and I'm very supportive of the intern as well. So I actually in Korea, I actually talked to some of the university, a woman university where to explain to them, hey, a role in the cloud. It could be tech, but there's a lot of other role, but we need more of you so that we can actually help building more innovative, more inclusive product for the customers.

Thank you, Mary. Thank you, Maria. We're gonna talk about the gamer community specifically. Ok.

So um talk to us about how you found that community and then how you continue to nourish the relationships you found in the gamer community.

Yeah, the gamer community is just one of them. I, i have many communities that I'm part of and I'm super proud of them. Also in my search, I also found communities that had like a beautiful mission, but whenever I was in touch with them, it wasn't necessarily like that.

So I'm just sharing that to validate because I know many, many people went through that, you know, you went to a space that was supposed to welcome to support you and you found something else.

Um people were there, I don't know for their egos to show off or whatever, but they were not there delivering their mission. So I found many of those as well.

Um but in games, um I was uh awarded by Heads Stream Innovation in the beginning of our journey at Gamer Safer. And that award was because we were building healthy e ethical technologies to support youth in online spaces.

Um so I think being awarded for something that is so impactful, helps to bring the right people in. And I got connected to my mentor at that program, which was one of the oldest more knowledgeable and well connected person in the gaming industry. She's part of many boards in the industry.

So I was connected with her and she introduced me to other ladies that are leading um leading games, not necessarily leading companies, but leading games and through their her connection, I met other women and that's all it gets started.

I started to support Women in Games, one that is based in UK then Women in Games International that is based here in the US. And I think my, my way of finding communities. This is really interesting.

Um I offer help first i give first and by the process of giving and understanding the dynamics, I decide if I want to stay.

Um sometimes that takes a lot of time. That's another conversation. uh but that's my way of finding and connecting with people because sometimes it's really hard when you don't know someone and you just come asking for something uh that is also valid. But I think it's more meaningful if you're willing to give something and to support a cause that you believe or a group or you know, something that you care for first and that helps to create that connection and that bond.

So not only with the gaming community, but Latinos Impact women in tech. That was like my approach of, you know, approaching them and get connected and deciding. Nice.

Thank you, Maria Mary. As the president of She Builds, how does finding community in the workplace impact your sense of belonging and in turn propel your career forward?

Yeah. So um when I actually pick up the president of, She Builds one of the tasks that I wanted to improve on is to how do we actually connect that similar to customer journey, but in terms of how She Builds community journey.

So for those who understand She is, we have different programs. Um but as a collective program ourselves, we have the tech skill, we have mentorship, we even have the partners, right?

I mean, when we actually bring together the whole community, I feel like I'm more empowered to support women all over the world. So we started off in a NZ we expanded to North America this year, we expanded to Europe as part of our mentorship program. Next year, we will be expanded to Latin America, Japan, Korea in local languages.

And I truly believe as a community as affinity group that we can actually make a change to impact more women and as a leader myself. And I'm actually helping some of those program managers to progress to their own career journey as well.

I'm happy to support Latin America. We'll connect. Perfect.

So I'm gonna ask this question to both of you. uh we'll start with you, Maria. If someone is looking for community, what avenues would you encourage them to take to find their people?

Mhm that's a tricky one because everybody is unique. But one thing that i, i would recommend is finding something that resonates with you, but that also match something that it's missing in your personal or career kind of goals because i, i think it needs to be very authentic the way you were building communities.

So i think that a perfect combination will be i believe, you know, in this group and how they're approaching something that i care and they match whatever i'm looking for in my life at this moment. So i will approach them and see how they react, but don't try to stay in a community where you don't feel welcome. It's just waste of time, Mary.

Same question.

So my advice would be find your passion, right? I mean, so if you're working in accounting. If you wanted to learn more tech, find She Belts or something similar that you can actually build your network. Right? When you have that network, the network's network will actually help to expand your bigger network.

Um and one of the advice i would give is go to your mentor or sponsorship and they are the best people that can connect you with people. Like what I'm doing now is sometimes people may want to reach out because they wanted to um get in a role in certain things. But when we have our own network, we can actually help them to land in a job as well.

And this is one of the most important thing as part of the community. I'm also part of the Asian at AWS um Mom at Amazon, like, like i can never say no if there's any community that i can actually pay a little forward, i would do that.

I think that is a great insight"

Um finding people that are already part of a community that can bring you in. So you're not there, you know, the first one alone trying to meet other people, if possible, try to find, you know, someone that is already part of that helps a lot. Um and i was thinking when i arrived in this event today, i found a friend and she, and then she gave me that hug. I felt like so better about the whole thing. Just because she was there, caro if you're here.

Um and the other thing that i forgot to mention, know your superpower whenever you are, you know, joining a group or a community, know your superpowers and put that superpower to work for that community. Talk to us about your superpower and how you put it, put it to work for your community.

I think my superpower is connection. I love meeting people. I love learning from them. And whenever i am at work and i'm having a customer call or a call with a partner, i always know who to connect with because i'm that person. Uh and also because i, i value, you know, all the history, all the knowledge that comes from that journey. And i'm i'm a people person. I confess. So i think that connection comes from that as well.

Mary your superpower and how do you use it for you?

I was connecting with people and i'm really interested in learning more about cultural differences. Like because like working in a pj australia, japan, korea, they all have like different cultures and by talking to different people, you understand, like the japan, japanese culture, korean culture is very different and for women to get into tech, it's actually very difficult um but it's even more enjoyable for me because i can actually help to grow that little bit of um to have more diverse workforce.

And, and i think my superpower is finding the right, people in the role or finding that leadership that is going to have to buy to say, hey, we need more of the woman or of the underrepresented in this organization. And i think that's something that i'm really passionate and that's my superpower. When i can actually convince the leaders, hey, we want to be here. We want these different programs to be launched and happy to sponsor you, happy to host you in korea or japan. That for me, i think that's my superpower.

Ok. Very good. So you guys have the same superpower connection.

So we always hear the sentiment that you should bring your full self to work be your authentic self. As you think about navigating the spaces you find yourself in throughout your career where you may be the only person in the room that looks like you. What's the advice? Is this advice incomplete or is it complete?

I would say that advice is actually incomplete because um when i first started at uh it company, another american company, i was one of the two asian women and at those events. And i thought to myself, hey, i need to feed in. So i learned to drink because you know, a lot of people at social. Ok. Well, but luckily my dad actually taught me at a very young age. I have two brothers. So when i was at the age of 10, my dad will usually have beer and all of us will bring us a little cup and we'll start with a little bit, little bit. I love this because my dad thinks it's a good idea to make sure that we know how to drink, especially for a girl. Right.

So, um, so when i thought i need to fit in, so i start drinking more and then i realized it's not a good thing. So, and then i thought, ok, if i wanted to be my authentic self, i don't, i shouldn't need to drink, i shouldn't need to drink. So that i feel like one of the boys, right? I shouldn't be wearing jacket or just walking around. Yeah.

So and i learned that by showing my real emotion, this is where you actually show your vulnerability and then build that connection, earn the trust with some of the people that you have around you. And that's where it got me today. I mean, nowadays, if i feel emotional, i will still feel emotional, but like it's in a positive way because like that's how you can actually really connect with people rather than keeping on that cool face.

And i'm sure everyone in the audience can, can think of that thing that someone told you you need to know how to do to fit in the room, right? When you're the only for me it was golf, right? So just think about that one thing, right? For me, it was drinking maria.

Uh the first thing that came to my mind. Um i, i felt unwelcome in many spaces ju just because i am this person like i mo move my hands a lot. I'm considered loud. I'm too joyful. Um so i felt it wasn't appropriate for certain spaces. It's not that i was being invasive, that's just being myself and that didn't help. So i think it's incomplete.

Um but what i can say is that you can find those spaces where you can be who you are and you be celebrated by being who you are and those are the spaces we should look for. I know that it's sometimes challenging because you were, you know, in a job and you, you have to pay your bills and it's not easy. Like let's find the perfect place where i can be who i am. It's not that easy. But i think if you, you know, you are in the wrong place, you can start that search and build those communities and find those mentors, those sponsors that can lead you to find the perfect, not per perfect as an exist, but mostly happy uh where you be, who you are.

Perfect. Perfect. So i want you all to leave our audience with a piece of advice. But i also want you to talk to us about how you've applied it in your own life or in your own community. So, a piece of advice and how you've applied that in your own life. In your own community, mary, you wanna start?

Yeah. So my advice will be be a band people. I have two daughters. Right. Um and something that i believe in to have the great and resilient life is not gonna be easy. Life is not going to be fair. Right. So don't be a princess. And for me when i was in, in a role, i tend to move a lot. I tend to move to a different role. Not because i want to change, but i wanted to challenge myself. And when you actually think and push yourself outside of your comfort zone, that's when you will learn, that's when you will grow and that's where you can actually have more impact.

Um and that will be one of my advice. So for all of you in the audience, if you're happy with a role, if you think you can stay in a row for a long time, start to think, hey, is there something else that i can do that i can challenge myself? Take that to the next step, maria, i changed my mind so many times about how to respond to this question. But i was listening to the previous panel and there was a question about sacrifice and sacrifice is needed many times in our careers in our personal lives and no one deserves to go through that alone.

So my piece of advice, which is something that i went through when i moved to the us. Don't stop to find, to find out your people don't stop in the first snow. Don't stop in the first group that doesn't welcome you as you are. Don't stop when someone don't believe in your superpowers, just keep searching because those groups are there and you have a place in the world, you have a superpower. You have a talent that needs to be celebrated. So don't stop. Keep searching.

I love it. Just a few nuggets that i picked up during our conversation, maria, you talked about creating spaces and maybe even starting by creating a space for yourself where you can belong, right? We talked a lot about paying it forward, um which is really important, not even knowing what sponsorship was originally, but paying it forward to someone else and then a step further around sponsorship, know what sponsorship is, give it, but then also to seek it, mary, you talked about pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, um learning what it means to fit into those rooms, but also finding your own authentic self and bringing that person to the room as opposed to this predetermined set of standards that, that you were given um by someone else and something that i would encourage the audience to do just based on what you all have shared with us today is look for community outside of yourself, look for community outside of people who look like you or think like you, you're in a perfect space for that. That's right. That's right. Lead with curiosity.

So with that, um is there anything else that you all would like to share with the audience before we come to a close?

Yeah. So i would encourage you all to come by the all builders. Welcome lunch this afternoon to learn more about. She builds the things that we do and how you can be a part in this wonderful community.

Awesome, awesome. And maria, anything to share with us before we close, just don't believe you if you're asking a question or stopping someone, if that you are bothering, just go for that. Um don't be i i know we are in a huge event and it's very intimidating. So just don't feel that go for it and if somebody doesn't reply the way you want, just keep going um and try to find something to take away that, you know, is supporting your personal developer and your career. Um from this event, i know there are many technical things we're gonna learn but try to find something that can be next level for you in a certain maybe write that down. What is your personal goal for this event? Maybe that have, have that in mind to help you to find those and also feel free to connect with me if you believe i can help.

Yeah. So uh on behalf of amazon web services and women of the cloud maria first, wanna thank you as a customer for being here for believing in aws and trusting us. Um mary, wanna thank you for the work that you do with she bills first starting in a nz and now looks like you're casting the next all over the world so that more people can understand what she builds and use it for their own career.

Um and so with that, i wanna thank you both for being here. Um i encourage all of you to join us upstairs in bayside, a for networking luncheon to close out woman of the cloud. Thank you so much for being here and listening.