Episode 105 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict) chats with Max Wheeler (@makenosound) and Myles Eftos (@madpilot) about the state of the mobile web. We talk about responsive web design, native apps vs. mobile web apps, PhoneGap, and the changing mobile landscape.
SitePoint Podcast的 第105集现已发布！ 本周，Louis Simoneau( @rssaddict )与Max Wheeler( @makenosound )和Myles Eftos( @madpilot )讨论了移动网络的状态。 我们讨论了响应式Web设计，本机应用程序与移动Web应用程序，PhoneGap以及不断变化的移动环境。
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SitePoint Podcast #105: There’s Something About Mobile with Max Wheeler and Myles Eftos (MP3, 38:21, 48.6MB)
SitePoint Podcast＃105：与Max Wheeler和Myles Eftos一起谈论移动 ( MP3，38:21，48.6MB )
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面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)
Louis: Okay, welcome to the SitePoint Podcast. This week on the show we have two web designers and developers from here in Australia, so first up we’ve got Max Wheeler, and we’ve also got Myles Eftos. Now, I saw both of you give talks at Web Directions South in Sydney at the end of last year, and given your talks were in some way related I wanted to have you both on and talk about a couple of things related to that. But before we dive into any of that can you just maybe introduce yourselves quickly, tell me what you do, and what you’re working on at the moment, do want to start with Max?
路易斯：好的，欢迎来到SitePoint播客。 在本周的展会上，我们有来自澳大利亚的两名网页设计师和开发人员，因此首先我们有Max Wheeler，还有Myles Eftos。 现在，我看到去年年底你们俩在悉尼的Web Directions South进行了演讲，鉴于您的演讲在某种程度上是相关的，所以我想让你们俩一起谈论一些与此相关的事情。 但是，在我们深入探讨其中的任何内容之前，您是否可以快速介绍一下自己，告诉我您的工作以及当前的工作，是否想从Max开始？
Max: Yeah, sure, so I’m Max, I’m the generally mumbly one, so I apologize in advance if there’s anything you can’t understand. And I’m mostly a kind of front end designer, I work for a company called Icelab based out of Canberra, at the moment I’m working on working on something we just released actually which is a little tool called TumblrThemr which is basically to make the process of developing themes for Tumblr a whole lot easier while letting you do it locally, so we just released that yesterday.
马克斯：是的，可以，所以我是马克斯，我通常是个笨拙的人，所以如果有什么你不明白的地方，我会先道歉。 我主要是一名前端设计师，我在堪培拉的一家名为Icelab的公司工作，目前我正在研究我们刚刚发布的东西，这实际上是一个名为TumblrThemr的小工具，使Tumblr主题的开发过程变得非常容易，同时又允许您在本地进行，因此我们昨天才发布。
Louis: Very interesting. Myles?
路易斯：非常有趣。 迈尔斯？
Myles: Yeah, I’m based out of Perth, I’m more of the backend developer, but I dabble in front end stuff as well, generally doing Rails, but I’m at the moment actually working on a number of iPhone and iPad apps using web tech and I’m in a couple other projects as well mainly in Ruby on Rails.
迈尔斯(Myles)：是的，我来自珀斯(Perth)，我是后端开发人员，但我也涉足前端方面的工作，通常在做Rails，但目前我实际上在开发许多iPhone和使用Web技术的iPad应用程序，我也参与其他两个项目，主要是在Ruby on Rails中。
Louis: Right. So, like I said earlier, you guys both gave talks at Web Directions South last year, Max your talk was on the geolocation API’s in I guess JavaScript and HTML 5.
路易斯：对。 因此，就像我之前说的，你们俩去年都在Web Directions South进行了演讲，Max的演讲是关于地理定位API的，我想是JavaScript和HTML 5。
Max: Yes.
马克斯：是的。
Louis: And, Myles, you gave a talk on PhoneGap. So before we dive into talking about that, do you want to just maybe give a quick talk about the talks you gave. So, Max, you were talking about geolocation, and I guess one of the things that struck me when I saw your talk is that I guess it’s one of those things that you think is going to be harder than it is.
路易斯：而且，迈尔斯，您在PhoneGap上发表了演讲。 因此，在我们深入讨论之前，您是否想快速谈谈您的演讲。 因此，Max，您在谈论地理定位，我想当我看到您的演讲时让我印象深刻的一件事是，我猜这是您认为比这更难的事情之一。
Max: Yeah, I think you’re right. The geolocation API, or the JavaScript geolocation API is actually really, really simple to use, and there are some kind of gotchas that you need to think about, but to get the very basics of it are incredibly easy to use, just kind of one JavaScript call and if the device supports it you can get a fairly accurate, get some fairly accurate information about where your users are at any particular moment.
马克斯：是的，我认为你是对的。 地理位置API或JavaScript地理位置API实际上非常非常简单易用，您需要考虑一些陷阱，但是要获得其基本知识却非常容易使用，仅一种JavaScript调用，如果设备支持它，您将获得相当准确的信息，获得有关特定时刻用户位置的一些相当准确的信息。
Louis: Right, and that’s pretty well supported across a lot of browsers right now.
路易斯：对，现在许多浏览器都对此提供了很好的支持。
Max: It is, yeah, yeah. I think it’s supported in Firefox, Safari and Chrome on the desktop.
马克斯：是的，是的。 我认为桌面版Firefox，Safari和Chrome支持该功能。
Myles: IE 9’s got it now, too, yeah.
迈尔斯： IE 9也可以了。
Max: Yeah, yeah, that’s right, I think it wasn’t in the early betas but it is in the final release, and it’s obviously much better supported in the mobile space as well, so Mobile Safari and the Android browsers support it.
马克斯：是的，是的，我认为它不是在早期的beta中，而是在最终版本中，并且显然在移动领域也得到了更好的支持，因此Mobile Safari和Android浏览器都支持它。
Louis: Right. And, Myles, you were talking about PhoneGap which I guess is a technology that a lot of people might not be familiar with, so you want to give just a little introduction as to what that is?
路易斯：对。 而且，Myles，您在谈论的是PhoneGap ，我想这是很多人可能不熟悉的技术，所以您只想对它做些介绍？
Myles: Yeah, sure, it’s basically up until PhoneGap sort of came out if you were developing iPhone or iPad or Android applications you’d have to go out and learn Objective-C or Java or C++, which as a web developer who’s used to scripting languages was a bit of a pain, some bright spot worked out that you can embed a WebKit view in most of those phone apps and came out with this library called PhoneGap which basically allows you to write HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, embed it in a skeleton app and then it will run, well, it runs natively so it means you can put it in app stores and you can install it like a native app, and all while using the technologies that we’re used to and doing it sort of cross platform because you can obviously use the same HTML and JavaScript and just flip out some CSS files really easily.
迈尔斯：是的，如果要开发iPhone或iPad或Android应用程序，那么基本上要等到PhoneGap出来之后，您才需要学习Objective-C或Java或C ++，这是作为Web开发人员习惯的脚本语言有点痛苦，可以看出一个亮点是可以将WebKit视图嵌入大多数电话应用程序中，并带有一个名为PhoneGap的库，该库基本上允许您编写HTML，CSS和JavaScript，并将其嵌入在骨架应用程序中运行，然后它将运行，很好，它在本机运行，因此这意味着您可以将其放入应用程序商店中，并且可以像本机应用程序一样安装它，并且始终使用我们惯用的技术来做这种跨平台的平台，因为您显然可以使用相同HTML和JavaScript，并且非常容易地翻转一些CSS文件。
Louis: And one of the cool things about PhoneGap is that on top of just giving you access to a web view that will run natively, it also sort of ties into some of the more device-centered API’s that the native development framework makes accessible.
路易斯：关于PhoneGap的一件很酷的事情是，除了让您访问将在本机运行的Web视图之外，它还与本机开发框架可访问的一些以设备为中心的API紧密联系。
Myles: Yeah, that’s right. So I mean obviously HTML 5 exposes a few of them, like the geo API, but the things like accessing the camera, accessing accelerometers, and also accessing local file storage and local databases, it gives you an API into that so you’re not reliant on the browser for that stuff when in fact the browser can’t even do some of these things.
迈尔斯：是的，是的。 因此，我的意思是说HTML 5显然公开了其中的一些内容，例如geo API，但是访问照相机，访问加速度计以及访问本地文件存储和本地数据库之类的东西，却为您提供了一个API，因此您不必实际上，浏览器甚至无法执行其中的某些操作，因此依赖于浏览器。
Louis: Right. So, if someone was looking to start developing for native platforms would you recommend looking at PhoneGap before looking at some of the native; is it ready for prime time? What are the major gotchas?
路易斯：对。 因此，如果有人打算开始为本机平台开发，那么建议您先查看PhoneGap，然后再查看某些本机平台。 准备黄金时间了吗？ 什么是主要陷阱？
Myles: Yeah, it’s definitely ready for prime time, but you’ve got to understand that they’re different, so you’re not going to get — you don’t get access to native widgets like buttons and calendar views and that sort of thing, so everything you put into the UI you have to design yourself using HTML and CSS, which is definitely possible; a lot of the CSS3 stuff that’s in many of the mobile browsers, but it’s still a lot of work to get it looking really native, and it can be — you’ve also got to manage all of the transitions and all of that sort of stuff yourself, so there’s a bit more work upfront a lot of the time. That said you’ve got a lot more control over the UI as well, so if you’re doing anything a little bit crazy and you can do it in HTML then it’s all good. The best thing about though is that the development speed is a lot faster, especially when you take into consideration you probably have to go learn another language to do it natively, but there are other avenues as well if you don’t want to be learning Objective-C or Java.
迈尔斯：是的，黄金时间肯定已经准备好了，但是您必须了解它们的不同之处，所以您将无法获得—您无法访问按钮和日历视图之类的本机小部件。实际上，因此，您放入UI中的所有内容都必须使用HTML和CSS进行设计，这绝对是可能的； 许多移动浏览器中都有很多CSS3内容，但要使其看起来真正本机还需要大量工作，而且还可以-您还必须管理所有过渡和所有此类工作塞满自己，所以很多时候需要做更多的事。 也就是说，您还对UI进行了更多控制，因此，如果您做点疯狂的事情，并且可以用HTML进行操作，那就太好了。 最好的是，开发速度要快得多，尤其是考虑到您可能必须学习另一种语言才能在本机中进行开发时，但是如果您不想学习的话，还有其他途径Objective-C或Java。
Louis: Right. So I guess that wraps that up. What I really wanted to get you guys on to talk about is I guess a question of designing for mobile devices because I guess we’re definitely at the point now where that’s becoming pretty mainstream, there are a lot of devices out there, and cheaper devices, that have good browsers so you can really develop full-featured websites with them. And I guess it was kind of brought on by a blog post that Jeremy Keith published about a month ago and that just got a few more comments on Twitter fairly recently and it got me thinking about it. So his argument is that what people should be doing is doing responsive design of their regular websites but using CSS media queries to make those adaptable to different screen sizes. So, I guess that’s interesting because his argument is that there are so many different devices and so many different sizes that if you want to develop a specifically mobile website that you serve to mobile devices and then a completely different site that you serve desktop devices, what do you do for tablets or for Netbook or Kindle or whatever. But I guess you guys might have different perspectives on that, I guess there are kind of four levels of ways you can go, you can either go sort of responsive design on your desktop site, you can develop a custom mobile site that you serve up only to mobile customers, you can develop a native app using something like PhoneGap which is cross platform or you can go full native. And I wanted to know what you guys, because you’re both sort of involved in this space, what were your opinions on those questions, because I think it’s a lot of — it’s something that a lot of developers are going to be starting to look at now.
路易斯：对。 因此，我认为这可以解决问题。 我真正想让大家谈论的是我想为移动设备设计的问题，因为我想我们现在绝对是主流，设备很多，而且更便宜设备，具有良好的浏览器，因此您可以真正使用它们开发功能齐全的网站。 我猜这是由杰里米·基思(Jeremy Keith)大约一个月前发布的博客帖子带来的，而最近才在Twitter上获得了一些评论，这让我开始思考。 因此，他的论点是人们应该做的是对常规网站进行响应式设计，但要使用CSS媒体查询来使其适应各种屏幕尺寸。 因此，我想这很有趣，因为他的论据是有太多不同的设备和如此众多的规模，如果您要开发一个专门为移动设备提供服务的移动网站，然后又想为桌面设备提供一个完全不同的网站，您为平板电脑，上网本，Kindle或其他产品做什么。 但是我想你们可能对此有不同的看法，我想您可以采用四种方式，您可以在台式机网站上进行自适应设计，也可以开发自己提供服务的自定义移动网站仅针对移动客户，您可以使用跨平台的PhoneGap之类的工具来开发本机应用程序，也可以完全本机。 我想知道你们是什么，因为你们俩都参与了这个领域，您对这些问题有何看法，因为我认为这涉及很多–许多开发人员将开始着手解决这个问题。看现在。
Max: Yeah, sure, I mean I think it really depends on the kind of target, what you’re trying to achieve and your target market. I think responsive design is great.
马克斯：是的，当然，我的意思是我认为这实际上取决于目标的种类，您要实现的目标以及目标市场。 我认为响应式设计很棒。
Louis: So maybe it’s possible some people listening might not be familiar, I know I introduced it pretty quickly there, but can you just give a bit of a quick rundown on what sort of media query based responsive design means.
路易斯：所以也许有些人可能听不太熟悉，我知道我在那儿很快介绍了它，但是您能否简要介绍一下基于媒体查询的响应式设计的含义。
Max: Yeah, sure, so responsive design is the term that refers to a technique kind of put forward by Ethan Marcotte in a seminal article on A List Apart, and the idea is that you use media queries in CSS which you probably normally see using, like by specifying @media print or @media screen, but in this case you can actually query the pixel dimensions or a bunch of other things like the DPI and the orientation of the user screen and then serve them different CSS depending on the capabilities of the device or the screen size, and that means that you can restyle your pages and lay them out so that they’re kind of perfectly laid out for any particular given size from say iPhone size at 320 pixels wide to gigantic desktop screens, the new iMacs which are 2700 pixels wide, you can kind of adapt your layout and have it respond to the particular resolution of the user’s browser or their device.
马克斯：是的，可以肯定的是，响应式设计是指Ethan Marcotte在A List Apart的开创性文章中提出的一种技术，其思想是您在CSS中使用媒体查询，而您通常会看到使用，例如，通过指定@media print或@media屏幕，但是在这种情况下，您实际上可以查询像素尺寸或一堆其他内容，例如DPI和用户屏幕的方向，然后根据不同的功能为它们提供不同CSS设备或屏幕尺寸，这意味着您可以重新设置页面的样式并对其进行布局，以便它们可以完美地布局于任何特定的给定尺寸，例如从320像素的iPhone尺寸到巨大的台式机屏幕， iMac的宽度为2700像素，您可以调整布局，使其对用户浏览器或其设备的特定分辨率做出响应。
Louis: Right. And so if someone wanted to have a look I know there’s one site which is kind of a showcase of these kinds of designs, it’s at Media Queries, so the last two letters are the domain, so it’s mediaqueri.es, has a bunch of really nice designs, and if you just resize your browser window while you’re looking at it you’ll see how it reflows and adapts to a very narrow browser window like what you’d get on mobile. But I guess some people take issue with that, so some people would say it’s better to develop a full blown mobile site specific for mobile, and what do you think would be the reasons you might want to do that instead of opting for a media query based responsive design?
路易斯：对。 因此，如果有人想看看，我知道有一个网站可以展示这些设计，这是在Media Queries，所以最后两个字母是域名，所以它是mediaqueri.es ，有很多非常好的设计，如果您在浏览器窗口时调整其大小，就会看到它如何重排并适应非常狭窄的浏览器窗口，就像在移动设备上一样。 但是我想有人对此表示质疑，所以有人会说最好开发一个专门针对移动设备的功能完善的移动站点，您认为这可能是您希望这样做而不是选择媒体查询的原因。基于响应式设计？
Max: Sure, I mean I think media queries are fine if you want to present basically the same information just kind of relayed out to your mobile users, so in some cases that’s totally appropriate; our company website, for example, we don’t really need to give anyone any more information or any less information than on a mobile device than on a desktop, so using media queries makes a lot of sense. But for kind of more powerful applications or web applications where people are trying to achieve certain things then you may want to restrict or limit the kind of functionality of the site and limit the scope of things that people can do to make it more appropriate for mobile. So Twitter’s a good example of that, the main Twitter site is fairly complex and fully featured, but the mobile Twitter site just lets you kind of get to the core of what Twitter is, which is viewing the timeline and updating with your latest Tweets and viewing your friends’ stuff; there’s not that extra cruft that you get on the main Twitter site.
马克斯：当然，我的意思是，如果您想提供基本相同的信息，只是将其中继给移动用户，那么媒体查询就可以了，所以在某些情况下这是完全合适的； 例如，在我们公司的网站上，与在移动设备上而不是在台式机上相比，我们真的不需要向任何人提供更多的信息或更少的信息，因此使用媒体查询非常有意义。 但是对于人们试图实现某些特定功能的功能更强大的应用程序或Web应用程序，则可能需要限制或限制网站的功能类型，并限制人们可以做的事情的范围，以使其更适合移动应用。 因此，Twitter就是一个很好的例子，主要的Twitter网站相当复杂且功能齐全，但是移动Twitter网站只是让您了解Twitter的核心，即查看时间线并更新最新的Tweets和查看朋友的东西； 在主要的Twitter网站上没有多余的东西。
Myles: And then Twitter, you can take the Twitter example one step further because of their native application is where the majority of their traffic actually comes from, so that’s a perfect example of that fitness of purpose, it makes sense for the Twitter app to be a native app, something that’s there that you can hit on your home screen and it pops up and does all of that stuff for you rather than you having to wait for screen reloads or HTML running in a mobile browser. So, yeah, you’re bang on Max, it’s all about fitness of purpose really.
迈尔斯(Myles)：然后是推特(Twitter)，您可以更进一步推特推特(Twitter)示例，因为它们的本机应用程序实际上是其大部分流量的来源，因此这是一个适用目的的完美示例，对于推特应用程序如果是本机应用程序，那么您可以在主屏幕上找到该应用程序，它会弹出并为您完成所有这些工作，而不必等待屏幕重新加载或在移动浏览器中运行HTML。 所以，是的，您对Max感到满意，这实际上与目的适用性有关。
Max: Yeah, I think that’s right.
马克斯：是的，我认为是正确的。
Louis: So, in this case it seemed like Jeremy Keith was taking a pretty hard line, he’s saying this is really never going to be appropriate; if you’re designing for the Web you have to be designing for every conceivable device, and that means doing responsive design. What do you think about that, is that an appropriate statement or is it taking things too far?
路易斯：所以，在这种情况下，杰里米·基思(Jeremy Keith)似乎采取了强硬路线，他说这真的是不合适的。 如果要为Web设计，则必须为每种可能的设备进行设计，这意味着必须进行响应式设计。 您对此有何看法，是适当的表述还是将事情做得太过分？
Myles: I think it’s taking things a little bit too far to be honest. I mean you look at — I can see what his point is, and with being for the last God knows how long harping on about different screen resolutions and different screen sizes, and now we’ve got different devices, but the thing is you take a look at something like a tablet form where you might have a seven or nine or ten inch screen, the resolutions on those things are comparable with smaller desktop screens anyway, and so quite often you don’t need to serve up anything different to those devices; obviously with a phone you’ve got a much smaller screen, your real estate’s much smaller, you need to use it a lot better, so there’s an argument there, but with anything over sort of 1024 x 768 screen it’s a desktop anyway, unless you’ve got some crazy sort of UI interaction stuff going on because obviously with pinch gestures and other gestures that makes other things not work the same way, but that’s a completely different argument, that’s not a CSS media query issue, that’s generally a JavaScript issue which I think is actually a more important sort of thing to be looking at.
迈尔斯：老实说，我认为事情有点过头了。 我的意思是，您看着—我能明白他的意思，而对于最后一位，上帝知道关于不同的屏幕分辨率和不同的屏幕尺寸需要花费多长时间，现在我们拥有不同的设备，但问题是您需要像平板电脑一样，您可能拥有7英寸，9英寸或10英寸的屏幕，无论如何，这些分辨率都可以与较小的台式机屏幕相提并论，因此您通常不需要提供任何其他东西设备; 显然，手机的屏幕要小得多，房地产要小得多，需要更好地使用它，所以这里有一个论点，但是对于1024 x 768以上的屏幕，无论如何它都是台式机，除非您会发生一些疯狂的UI交互操作，因为显然是捏捏手势和其他手势使其他事物无法以相同的方式工作，但这是一个完全不同的论点，这不是CSS媒体查询问题，通常是JavaScript我认为这实际上是一个更重要的问题。
Max: Yeah, I half agree with Jeremy, and I think being able to build all your designs using responsive kind of design principles would be great but it isn’t necessarily a reality all the time. I think responsive design can get complex quickly and that’s something you need to consider, and oftentimes you need to, if you’re making a responsive design, I’ve only made sort of three or four, but you need to make accommodations in your — like the structure of your HTML which means that your desktop users might get a slightly worse experience than you would otherwise have because you’re trying to accommodate for everybody, and I think you need to look at; actually take a look at your traffic and see if you’re getting people visiting on mobile, if you’re not then it’s something that you might not want to consider, but if you are then you should definitely think about it.
马克斯：是的，我一半同意杰里米的观点，我认为能够使用响应式设计原则构建您的所有设计是很棒的，但这并不一定一直都是现实。 我认为响应式设计会很快变得复杂，这是您需要考虑的，而且通常需要，如果要进行响应式设计，我只做了三到四个，但是您需要在—就像HTML的结构一样，这意味着您的桌面用户可能会比您原本会拥有的体验稍差，因为您正试图适应所有人，而我认为您需要研究一下； 实际看一下您的流量，看看是否有人通过移动设备进行访问，如果不是，那么您可能不希望考虑这一点，但是如果您这样做，则应该考虑一下。
Louis: Right. I guess one of the other things that plays into that is sort of the — there’s two things, one of them is the context that people are browsing in, so I mean I was having a quick browse this morning before our interview about the Media Queries gallery that I talked about earlier, and it looks like a vast majority of sites on there are either blog sites or sort of agency portfolio sites that are done as a demo of this kind of thing, you know, the content that you want to deliver to the user is exactly the same no matter where they’re coming from.
路易斯：对。 我猜想其中的另一件事是-有两件事，其中之一是人们正在浏览的上下文，所以我的意思是我今天早上在接受媒体查询采访之前快速浏览了一下我之前提到的画廊，看起来好像其中的绝大多数网站都是博客网站或代理机构投资组合网站，它们都是作为这种事(您知道的)的演示而完成的无论用户来自哪里，对用户来说都是完全一样的。
Myles: Yeah, that’s right.
迈尔斯：是的，是的。
Louis: But I guess there are a lot of sites, for example, my bank’s website, when I go to it on my mobile it’s not a media query adapted version of their full blown website with all that content just crammed into one column, it’s a completely different experience where I’ve just got three options: log in to online banking, find an outlet, or call us.
路易斯：但是我猜想有很多网站，例如我银行的网站，当我用手机访问它时，这并不是他们全面网站的媒体查询改编版本，所有内容都挤在一个栏中。完全不同的体验，我只有三种选择：登录到网上银行，查找网点或致电给我们。
Myles: Yeah, they’re not trying to sell you a home loan when you’re on your mobile phone.
迈尔斯：是的，当您使用手机时，他们并不是想向您出售房屋贷款。
Louis: (Laughs) exactly right. I’m just at the bus stop like oh wait, you know, I could really go for a mortgage right now (laughter).
路易斯：(笑)完全正确。 我就像在公交车站一样，哦，等等，你知道，我现在真的可以抵押贷款了(笑)。
Myles: Yeah, I think that’s at the core of it is media queries essentially reshaping the same content and a separate mobile site is really targeting users in a specific context.
迈尔斯：是的，我认为这是媒体查询的本质，它本质上是在重塑相同的内容，而一个单独的移动网站实际上是针对特定上下文中的用户。
Louis: Right. And I guess the other thing that plays into it is the bandwidth requirement. Sometimes that media query design, depending on how you do it, but it can if you’re doing images that are suited for a 960 pixel resolution but they’re scaled down in CSS then I mean that can be a pretty big image to a server of a mobile broadband.
路易斯：对。 我猜想其中的另一件事是带宽需求。 有时，该媒体查询设计取决于您的操作方式，但是如果您要制作的图像适合960像素分辨率，但可以在CSS中按比例缩小，那么我的意思是，对于移动宽带服务器。
Max: Yeah, I mean you look at something like a really heavy website like a news website where it’s not uncommon for them to be half a meg worth of assets that you’re downloading every time you get the front page. It makes sense for them to serve up a different version of their website to mobile because you don’t want people having to wait for half a meg of stuff to come down the wire while you’re at the bus stop. And that is a problem, that’s always been, I mean this isn’t a new argument either, we’ve been having this stuff about mobiles for years, it’s just we’ve now got the actual browsers that can support this stuff, and it was even more of a problem before where we had even less bandwidth on mobiles. But, if you’re going to be serving up the same amount of stuff to people on mobiles then, yeah, you’ve kind of done it wrong.
马克斯：是的，我的意思是，您看到的是一个像新闻网站这样的非常繁重的网站，在您每次获得首页时，它们要下载的价值只有半兆的资产并不少见。 对于他们来说，为移动网站提供不同版本的网站是很有意义的，因为您不希望人们在公共汽车站时也不必等待半兆的东西就可以通过网络传输。 这是一个问题，一直存在，我的意思是这也不是一个新的论点，多年来我们一直在研究有关移动设备的东西，只是现在我们已经有了可以支持该东西的实际浏览器，并且在我们的手机带宽更低之前，这甚至是一个更大的问题。 但是，如果您要在移动设备上向人们提供相同数量的内容，那么是的，您做错了。
Louis: Right, good. And I suppose to take that next step, so say okay someone might have made the decision where on my website I’ve got a separate mobile version that I’m doing some service side shenanigans to decide when to serve up, that next step going from a website to a native app, what do you think of the deciding factors that might lead, or that make that a good judgment call, that make that a good idea?
路易斯：对，很好。 我想迈出下一步，所以说好吧，也许有人决定在我的网站上我有一个单独的移动版本，我正在做一些服务方面的恶作剧，以决定何时提供服务，下一步从网站到本机应用程序，您如何看待可能导致或做出良好判断力的决定性因素？
Myles: Basically what you’re going to get out of a native, I mean this takes it one step further, when you’re building for a native app you’re building for — you’ve got a whole bunch of other contingencies you need to consider now. The first one being that it needs to work without any network connection at all or at least fail gracefully, which you don’t have to worry about if it’s a regular website because they just won’t be able to get there. But I mean the first thing you’d probably notice is you’re not going to convert your blog site to a native app, that’s probably not quite, so the first thing you’re going to have to look at is whether it’s an app that is going to have interest and is going to make sense being a native app in the first place. But then you’ve got to take into account using local storage wherever possible to cache things if required, doing a bit more handling of network failures, but also the way that the user interacts with the application; when they’re in the Web browser they kind of expect things to have to reload and there being a little bit of a delay when you click on links and that sort of thing. When you’re running natively they want something a little bit snappier, a bit more responsive, so the amount of times you would be able to just take what you’ve done online and drop it into a native app frame it’s probably not going to happen that easily, you do have to do a bit of work to re-factor some of the stuff that you’re working with.
迈尔斯(Myles)：基本上，您将从本机中脱颖而出，我的意思是，这将使您更进一步，当您为要为其构建的本机应用程序构建时-您还遇到了很多其他意外情况现在需要考虑。 第一个是它需要在没有任何网络连接的情况下才能正常工作，或者至少要正常地失败，您不必担心它是否是常规网站，因为它们根本无法到达那里。 但是我的意思是，您可能会注意到的第一件事是您不会将博客网站转换为本地应用程序，这可能并不完全，所以您首先要查看的是它是否是一个应用程序首先，它将会引起人们的兴趣，并成为有意义的本地应用程序。 但是，那么您就必须考虑使用本地存储，如果需要的话，可以在可能的地方缓存内容，从而更多地处理网络故障，以及用户与应用程序交互的方式。 当他们在Web浏览器中时，他们会期望某些东西必须重新加载，并且当您单击链接之类的东西时会有一点延迟。 当您在本机上运行时，他们想要一些更简单，响应更快的功能，因此，您可以将在线上所做的事情放到本机应用程序框架中的次数可能不会发生这种事情很容易，您确实需要做一些工作来重构您正在使用的某些内容。
Max: Yeah, I think you need to decide whether you think people will use it is the main thing. Like you say, if it your blog site then people probably are going to download that and install it on there home screen and use it everyday. I mean to jump to a native app is only worth it if you think your users are going to get good use out of it and that it’s going to be worth your time.
马克斯：是的，我认为您需要决定是否认为人们会使用它是主要问题。 就像您说的那样，如果它是您的博客站点，那么人们可能会下载该文件并将其安装在该主屏幕上，并每天使用。 我的意思是，仅当您认为用户会充分利用该应用程序并且值得花时间时，才跳到本机应用程序是值得的。
Louis: Yeah, right. And I guess in some cases where there’s functionality that you need that’s just not available through the browser. So you were talking earlier about Twitter and I guess the Twitter native app allows you to upload a photo with your Tweet which you couldn’t do on a website, well, not on most mobile browsers anyway. Or just to take one directly from the camera I guess is not possible in mobile.
路易斯：是的，对。 而且我猜在某些情况下，您所需的功能只是无法通过浏览器获得。 因此，您之前在谈论Twitter，我猜想Twitter本机应用程序允许您使用Tweet上传照片，但您在网站上无法这样做，或者在大多数移动浏览器上都无法做到。 或者只是直接从相机中拍摄一张照片，我猜这在移动设备中是不可能的。
Max: I was going to say with the discussion about media queries there’s a good resource that I’ve been looking at called Yiibu.com, and they’ve done a bunch of thinking kind of about — they wrote an article called Rethinking the Mobile Web, and I think a lot of the stuff they talk about in that as applies to media queries is really useful to look at, it’s basically the idea of designing for mobile first and then building up a set of — layering on more information and heavier design for your desktop users to somewhat negate what we were talking about earlier which is that problem of network access and extra assets for mobile users by trying to specifically having the default be for mobile users and then targeting desktop users rather than the other way around, which is kind of the initial way that responsive design was thought of, then you don’t force mobile users to download lots of stuff they’re not going to use, but desktop users do and it’s less of a problem for them.
马克斯：我要在有关媒体查询的讨论中说，我一直在寻找一个很好的资源，称为Yiibu.com ，他们已经做了很多思考，他们写了一篇题为《 重新思考手机》的文章。 网络 ，我认为他们谈论的许多内容都非常有用，因为它适用于媒体查询，这基本上是首先为移动设备设计，然后构建一套的想法，即在更多信息上分层并增加为您的桌面用户设计的产品在某种程度上可以抵消我们之前所讨论的问题，即通过尝试将默认设置专门针对移动用户，然后针对桌面用户而不是其他方式来针对移动用户提供网络访问和额外资产的问题，这是响应式设计的最初考虑方式，因此您不必强迫移动用户下载许多他们不打算使用的内容，而台式机用户则可以这样做，这对他们来说不是一个大问题。
Louis: Right. That does bring up one thing interesting, I don’t remember where I was reading this recently, but I do remember reading that some websites have had reports of users saying you know what, even when I’m at the desktop I still prefer the mobile version of your site just because there’s not all this junk that I need to swim through to find.
路易斯：对。 这确实带来了一件有趣的事情，我不记得我最近在哪里读过这篇文章，但我确实记得读过一些网站上有报告说用户知道你知道什么，即使我在台式机上我仍然更喜欢您网站的移动版本仅是因为我不需要花时间去寻找所有这些垃圾。
Max: Because you’re hiding all the ads (laughter).
马克斯：因为您要隐藏所有广告(笑声)。
Louis: Is it just ads though or do you think there’s something to be said for sort of the simplified user interface?
路易斯：虽然只是广告，还是您认为简化的用户界面有话要说？
Max: Yeah, I think there’s definitely something to be said for simplicity.
马克斯：是的，我认为肯定有一些简单说要说。
Myles: But then it works the other way around as well, like I know there’s a number of mobile websites they have done that whole we’re going to do a different site for you, and the stuff that I’m actually looking for isn’t on that and the first thing I do is go to the main site, the full view site because I need some other piece of information. So, it kind of works both ways I reckon.
迈尔斯：但是后来它也反过来起作用了，就像我知道有很多移动网站一样，我们将为您做一个不同的网站，而我真正想要的是不会，我要做的第一件事就是访问主要站点，即全视图站点，因为我需要其他一些信息。 因此，我认为这两种方法都可行。
Max: Yeah, that’s absolutely true.
马克斯：是的，这是绝对正确的。
Louis: That’s an important point is if anyone’s building a separate mobile site it’s important to have a link back to the full site, because if you’re just force redirecting everyone and there’s no way to get to the information you want.
路易斯：这很重要，因为如果有人在构建单独的移动网站，则必须具有指向整个网站的链接，这很重要，因为如果您只是强制重定向所有人，则无法获取所需的信息。
Max: Yeah, I think you want to make sure you’re giving your users the choice rather than kind of enforcing your opinion on them about what they should see.
麦克斯：是的，我想您要确保给用户选择的余地，而不是强加于他们对他们应该看到的内容的看法。
Louis: Yeah. I just pulled up the Yiibu site that you were talking about, and I had seen this before, they’ve got this sort of flow chart on the front page of I guess it sums up their entire philosophy about designing for mobile in this very fairly sophisticated flow chart. And I seem to remember the flow chart itself also is responsive and they’ve got two versions of it, and one of them loads if you reload the page when you’re in a narrow window. Yeah, it actually does.
路易斯：是的。 我刚刚打开了您正在谈论的Yiibu网站，我之前已经看到过，他们在首页上有这样的流程图，我想它可以非常概括地总结出他们在移动设计方面的全部理念。复杂的流程图。 而且我似乎还记得流程图本身也是响应式的，他们有两种版本，如果您在狭窄的窗口中重新加载页面，则其中一种会加载。 是的，实际上是这样。
Max: It’s quite smart.
马克斯：这很聪明。
Myles: Although it doesn’t look very good when you resize it.
迈尔斯：尽管调整大小时看起来不太好。
Louis: No, it doesn’t. But I guess that’s the other thing, you consider as a designer the thing that you’re doing is constantly resizing your browser window and you want things to look smooth as they scale, but in reality when you’re doing responsive design it’s not about people resizing their windows, it’s about people loading it on a device that is that narrow I guess.
路易斯：不，不是。 但是我想那是另一回事，作为设计师，您认为您正在做的事情是不断调整浏览器窗口的大小，并且希望它们在缩放时看起来很平滑，但实际上，当您在进行响应式设计时，这与人们调整窗口大小，这是因为人们将窗口加载到如此狭窄的设备上。
Max: Yeah, that’s right. And I think there’s a bunch of kind of responsive libraries I guess that have come out, like CSS libraries, one that’s cssgrid.net and there’s one called the Less Framework, and they kind of build upon that idea which is a grid that is responsive and it means that things don’t sort of resize perfectly for every screen when you’re using responsive design, but at any particular resolution then you get like a grid that makes sense and you get a structure that makes sense and that fits, so it still sort of makes this kind of a hybrid between a six width design and kind of completely fluid responsive design.
马克斯：是的，没错。 而且我认为我想出了很多响应式库，例如CSS库，一个cssgrid.net和一个称为Less Framework的库 ，它们建立在该想法之上，即响应式网格这意味着当您使用响应式设计时，并不是每个屏幕都能完美调整大小，但是在任何特定分辨率下，您都将变得像有意义的网格，并且获得了有意义且适合的结构，因此它仍然是将六宽度设计与完全响应流体的设计混合在一起的一种方式。
Louis: Yeah. It definitely looks impressive. I mean as a web geek when you’re sort of resizing your browser window and you see something that seems like the whole way down it looks like it was crafted for exactly that pixel width, it is really impressive.
路易斯：是的。 它绝对看起来令人印象深刻。 我的意思是作为Web怪胎，当您需要调整浏览器窗口的大小时，您会发现整个过程看起来像是完全针对像素宽度而设计的，这确实令人印象深刻。
Myles: It does feel very nice.
迈尔斯：感觉确实很好。
Louis: (Laughs) I don’t know how much of the appeal that is, it’s just how cool it feels to web designers to play with it.
路易斯：(笑)我不知道有多少吸引力，这只是网页设计师使用它的感觉有多酷。
Max: (Laughs) yeah, that’s right. I think that’s important, you know, you’ve got to feel good about the things you’re doing, and you want to impress your friends, right?
马克斯：(笑)是的，是的。 我认为这很重要，您知道，您必须对自己所做的事情感到满意，并且想打动您的朋友，对吗？
Louis: (Laughs) yeah. Do you want to maybe have a quick chat about what you were talking about, I know we touched on it briefly at the beginning about what you were talking about in your talk at Web Directions, Max, about geolocation, it’s interesting that this is now pretty much available in every browser, so even for when we’re doing something like a responsive design or a mobile design that’s not necessarily native you still have access to what we think of as device information.
路易斯：(笑)是的。 您是否想快速聊一下您在说什么，我知道我们在一开始就在Web Directions，Max上关于地理定位的话题中简短地谈到了它，所以很有趣，现在每个浏览器中几乎都有可用的功能，因此即使我们正在执行诸如响应式设计或不一定是本地的移动设计之类的操作，您仍然可以访问我们认为的设备信息。
Max: Yeah, that’s right. I mean I think the gap is sort of slowly closing between kind of what’s available in a native application and what’s available in a web browser generally. There’s a lot of work going on in the W3C working on specifications for I think like reading files and getting access to other device APIs like the camera and things, and kind of trying to establish like a standard API for giving access to that functionality like through the Web browser, so it’s kind of an exciting time because you can really build some web applications that do feel like native apps, that have the functionality of native apps.
马克斯：是的，没错。 我的意思是，我认为本机应用程序中的可用内容与Web浏览器中的可用内容之间的差距正在逐渐缩小。 我认为W3C正在进行大量工作，这些规范涉及一些规范，例如读取文件并获得对其他设备API(如照相机和事物)的访问权限，并尝试建立类似于标准API的功能，以便通过Web浏览器，所以这是一个令人兴奋的时刻，因为您可以真正构建一些感觉像本机应用程序的Web应用程序，这些应用程序具有本机应用程序的功能。
Louis: Yeah. What do you feel about I guess what do you think is going to be the future of the mobile web; are we moving to a time when everything is going to be via the Web? I know, for example, John Allsop who is also an Australian web designer who runs the Web Directions Conference, he’s pretty vocal about his belief that we should aim for applications mediated via the Web as much as possible. I don’t think he’s a fan of native if I’m reading his Tweets correctly.
路易斯：是的。 您如何看待我的想法，您认为将成为移动网络的未来。 我们正迈向一切都将通过网络的时代吗？ 例如，我知道John Allsop还是澳大利亚的Web设计师，他还是Web指导会议的负责人，他非常坚信自己的信念，即我们应该尽可能地针对通过Web介导的应用程序。 如果我正确阅读他的Tweets，我认为他不是本地人的粉丝。
Myles: He’s pretty adamant about that.
迈尔斯：他对此非常坚决。
Max: Yeah, I think it is going that direction, and to me it’s mostly a question of speed for the most part, when you’re building a mobile app it’s interpreted by — it’s interpreted on the fly by browser engine and the JavaScript engine, and native applications don’t have to go through those steps so they’re much faster, but that gap is rapidly closing. The iPhone 4 compared to the original iPhone, the performance of web applications is mind-blowingly faster, and it makes building web applications much more viable I think.
马克斯：是的，我认为这是朝这个方向发展，对我来说，大部分时候都是速度问题，当您构建移动应用程序时，它的解释方式是-浏览器引擎和JavaScript引擎会即时对其进行解释，并且本机应用程序不必执行这些步骤，因此它们要快得多，但是这种差距正在Swift缩小。 与原始iPhone相比，iPhone 4的Web应用程序性能惊人地快，我认为它使构建Web应用程序更加可行。
Myles: It’d be even faster if Apple would let us use their new JavaScript engine in native apps.
迈尔斯：如果Apple让我们在本机应用程序中使用其新JavaScript引擎，那就更快了。
Max: Yeah, that’s true. That’s pretty mean.
马克斯：是的，是的。 这是很卑鄙的。
Louis: And, sorry; maybe if people listening aren’t aware of that particular issue do you want to just provide some background on that.
路易斯：而且，对不起。 也许，如果听众不知道该特定问题，您是否想为此提供一些背景知识。
Myles: So, basically the latest iOS upgrade, which is 4.3 or whatever it was, introduced a new JavaScripting engine, I think it’s called Nitro.
迈尔斯：因此，基本上，最新的iOS升级(版本为4.3或类似的版本)引入了新JavaScripting引擎，我称之为Nitro。
Max: Yeah, Nitro.
马克斯：是的，硝基。
Myles: Yeah, which is awesome, it means that the mobile Safari on iPhone runs a hell of a lot quicker, but they haven’t actually allowed native PhoneGap type developers to use it, so when we’re trying to fake native apps in a native wrapper we don’t get the speed up that web developers doing stuff in Mobile Safari get which is whether or not it’s a bug or a —
迈尔斯：是的，这太棒了，这意味着iPhone上的移动Safari运行起来要快得多，但实际上他们并未允许本机PhoneGap类型的开发人员使用它，因此，当我们尝试在本机中伪造本机应用程序时，作为原生包装器，我们无法像在Safari中做事一样加快Web开发人员的工作速度，这是否是错误还是-
Louis: So they haven’t come out and said we’ve decided for x reason not to allow this, or it hasn’t been commented on at all?
路易斯：所以他们还没有出来，说我们出于x的原因决定不允许这样做，或者根本没有对此发表评论？
Max: They haven’t commented.
马克斯：他们没有评论。
Myles: Yeah, they’ve kind of just left it and gone, eh, whatever.
迈尔斯：是的，他们有点离开而已，嗯，随便吧。
Max: I think they haven’t gotten to it yet. There’s some discussion about the security implications of the new JavaScript engine and that’s why it hasn’t been included as yet.
马克斯：我认为他们还没有做到这一点。 关于新JavaScript引擎的安全性问题，有一些讨论，这就是为什么尚未将其包括在内的原因。
Myles: But I mean that does kind of affect — because I’m quite a fan of running native apps, I think there again it’s fitness of purpose, right, so there’s a lot of websites out there that want a native app but for some things I think they make sense, but I don’t want to go learn new languages so something like PhoneGap is very exciting, but when they start pulling that sort of stuff it gets a bit annoying. But on your question about whether that’s the direction we’re going to go, from a tech point of view I think that’s definitely a direction people will want to go because it is a lot easier, you’ve got one platform to work on, you’re building in a web server, you don’t have to worry about packaging up native apps which can be quite painful and all of that sort of stuff. Where I think it might go the other way is from a marketing point of view, I know a lot of guys who aren’t nerds, they’re marketing people, they kind of get a little bit excited about the monetization ability of app stores and native apps, but a lot of them are sort of talking about we did the whole web 2.0, I’m sorry for saying that word (laughter) thing, and it was all awesome but no one — it was really hard to make money on that sort of stuff; with an app you can sell the app and people will pay a couple bucks for it. So I think that’s where kind of the dichotomy is going to occur, and that’s going to be another — a while off until the sort of marketeers get their heads around the whole space, and then by that stage the tech guys will probably be bored with it anyway and will be moving on to the next thing. But I think that there will be a bit of a decoupling between — web delivery will still occur, like you’ll still be pulling information over from websites, but the display mechanism might go more towards native, and that’s purely a marketing thing I reckon.
迈尔斯：但是，我的意思是确实会产生影响-因为我非常喜欢运行本机应用程序，因此我认为这又是合乎目的的，对，因此，有很多网站想要本机应用程序，但是对于某些网站我认为它们很有意义，但是我不想去学习新语言，所以PhoneGap之类的东西非常令人兴奋，但是当他们开始学习这类东西时，它会变得有些烦人。 但是，从技术的角度来看，关于您的问题，这是我们要走的方向，我认为这绝对是人们想要走的方向，因为它要容易得多，您有一个工作平台，您是在Web服务器上进行构建的，不必担心打包本机应用程序可能会很痛苦，并且需要进行所有此类工作。 从市场营销的角度来看，我认为这可能是相反的，我知道很多人不是书呆子，而是市场营销人员，他们对应用商店的获利能力感到有些兴奋。和本机应用程序，但是其中很多人都在谈论我们完成了整个Web 2.0，我很遗憾地说出这个词(笑声)，这一切都很棒，但没人能做到–确实很难赚钱在那种东西上； 有了一个应用程序，您就可以出售该应用程序，而人们将为此付出几美元。 因此，我认为这将是一种二分法，这将是另一种二分法—距离这种市场营销者将目光投向整个领域还有一段时间，然后到那个阶段，技术人员可能会很无聊无论如何，它将继续进行下一件事。 但是我认为两者之间会有某种脱钩的关系–网络交付仍会发生，就像您仍然会从网站上获取信息一样，但是显示机制可能会更趋向于本地化，这纯粹是一种营销活动。
Max: Yeah, I guess I haven’t played with it much but the Chrome Store is going to be a good example of that, it’s a way of monetizing web technology because all the Chrome extensions are built in HTML and CSS and JavaScript, is that right?
马克斯：是的，我想我还没做太多事情，但是Chrome商店将是一个很好的例子，这是一种通过网络技术获利的方法，因为所有的Chrome扩展程序都是基于HTML，CSS和JavaScript构建的，对不对
Myles: Yeah.
迈尔斯：是的。
Max: Yeah, I kind of imagine it ending up in a similar sort of space where the technology for several native applications and web applications end up being pretty close to the same thing, but there are sort of different marketplaces for those apps.
马克斯：是的，我想像它会出现在类似的空间中，其中几个本机应用程序和Web应用程序的技术最终都接近于同一事物，但是这些应用程序存在着不同的市场。
Myles: You’re still kind of talking an app that is downloaded somewhere, but decoupling that from like an actual website that you just type in a URL for, you know, Chrome App Store doesn’t really unless there’s some way of stopping people getting to your website if they didn’t come through a Chrome Store then you’re still kind of — it doesn’t work in that effect, but I mean from an app point of view yeah, and that’s why the sales guys are getting excited about that stuff.
迈尔斯(Myles)：您仍然在谈论某个应用程序，该应用程序已下载到某处，但将其与您仅键入URL的实际网站脱钩，您知道，除非有某种方法可以阻止用户访问Chrome App Store，如果他们没有通过Chrome商店访问您的网站，那么您仍然有这种感觉-不能正常工作，但是我的意思是从应用程序的角度来看，这就是为什么销售人员越来越喜欢对这些东西感到兴奋。
Louis: Yeah, there are a couple of things there, one of the things that’s kind of interesting about the app store mentality from a sales perspective, doesn’t it seem like if my business model is I’ve got this sort of web based service but rather than charging a monthly fee for access to it via the Web I’m going to just sell a downloadable app for people to use it on their devices, right. Does that pose a problem, like once I’ve got my plateau of users that have already paid me I still have to keep serving them with my servers in a way that’s not bringing in any additional revenue?
路易斯：是的，这里有很多事情，从销售的角度来看，这对于应用程序商店的心态是一件有趣的事情，好像我的商业模式不是我拥有这种基于Web的东西一样。服务，而不是每月收取通过网络访问它的费用，我将只出售可下载的应用程序供人们在其设备上使用。 这是否会带来问题，例如一旦我获得了已经支付给我的用户的稳定平台，我仍然必须继续以不增加任何收入的方式为他们的服务器提供服务？
Max: Yeah, I think that’s something you need to consider.
马克斯：是的，我认为这是您需要考虑的问题。
Myles: Well that’s a big problem, I mean with the new subscription model stuff that Apple’s bringing, I’m sorry to talk about Apple specific stuff here but they’re the best example, with the subscription model that they’re doing we’re seeing a whole bunch of newspapers and magazines and stuff that they do the subscription model for you. So that’s definitely a problem, and we’ve seen that with one of the apps that we’ve built, it’s a one-off fee but there’s this like ongoing server costs and stuff you’ve got to consider, but some money’s better than none, right (laughter).
迈尔斯：嗯，这是一个大问题，我的意思是说Apple带来了新的订阅模式产品，很抱歉在这里谈论Apple的特定内容，但它们是最好的例子，他们正在使用的订阅模式就是我们。看到一大堆报纸和杂志以及他们为您提供订阅模式的内容。 So that's definitely a problem, and we've seen that with one of the apps that we've built, it's a one-off fee but there's this like ongoing server costs and stuff you've got to consider, but some money's better than none, right (laughter).
Max: Well, that’s true. Marco Arment talks about this a little bit on the Build and Analyze podcast with regards to Instapaper because that’s Instapaper’s general model is to give away the service for free and have people pay for a very nice native client for reading, but obviously that means he only gets money from people once most of the time.
Max: Well, that's true. Marco Arment talks about this a little bit on the Build and Analyze podcast with regards to Instapaper because that's Instapaper's general model is to give away the service for free and have people pay for a very nice native client for reading, but obviously that means he only gets money from people once most of the time.
Louis: Right. Was there anything else you guys wanted to talk about? Do you have something cool you guys have seen lately that would be worth pointing out to people?
路易斯：对。 Was there anything else you guys wanted to talk about? Do you have something cool you guys have seen lately that would be worth pointing out to people?
Max: What I would say is that one of the projects that I’m working on at the moment which won’t make it to the Web for a little while but should eventually is like a couple of touch screens for the National Museum of Australia, and so traditionally we would build these in Flash because they need to be sort of fairly animation rich and feel kind of like an application rather than a website.
Max: What I would say is that one of the projects that I'm working on at the moment which won't make it to the Web for a little while but should eventually is like a couple of touch screens for the National Museum of Australia, and so traditionally we would build these in Flash because they need to be sort of fairly animation rich and feel kind of like an application rather than a website.
Louis: So this is like an installed touchscreen that’s just set up.
Louis: So this is like an installed touchscreen that's just set up.
Max: Yeah, so they have a gallery and there will be a physical touchscreen in the space next to a bunch of objects usually around a particular theme. And so this time we decided to build them in HTML and CSS and JavaScript rather than building them in Flash, and it’s been really successful and they’ll be deploying them in Chrome like running in a full screen kiosk, and the great thing about it is that it out of the box runs on an iPad, so it runs on my iPhone.
Max: Yeah, so they have a gallery and there will be a physical touchscreen in the space next to a bunch of objects usually around a particular theme. And so this time we decided to build them in HTML and CSS and JavaScript rather than building them in Flash, and it's been really successful and they'll be deploying them in Chrome like running in a full screen kiosk, and the great thing about it is that it out of the box runs on an iPad, so it runs on my iPhone.
Louis: It’s really impressive what you can do with a lot of the new animation stuff in CSS. You guys were both at Web Directions; you saw Cameron Adams’ intro video which was pretty impressive.
Louis: It's really impressive what you can do with a lot of the new animation stuff in CSS. You guys were both at Web Directions; you saw Cameron Adams' intro video which was pretty impressive.
Max: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Max: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Myles: Also there’s rumors that some of the WebGL stuff is going to end up on some of the mobile devices pretty soon as well which means that one of the main reasons you’d want to go native, especially if you’re running a game, which we just didn’t have the speed to throw graphics around too much, there’s a couple of things that were hardware accelerated that not really, and if we can get WebGL sorted out in the mobile space then that means we can do some pretty impressive graphic stuff in JavaScript and HTML as well.
Myles: Also there's rumors that some of the WebGL stuff is going to end up on some of the mobile devices pretty soon as well which means that one of the main reasons you'd want to go native, especially if you're running a game, which we just didn't have the speed to throw graphics around too much, there's a couple of things that were hardware accelerated that not really, and if we can get WebGL sorted out in the mobile space then that means we can do some pretty impressive graphic stuff in JavaScript and HTML as well.
Max: Yeah, it’s definitely an exciting time.
Max: Yeah, it's definitely an exciting time.
Louis: Absolutely. Well, so thanks both of you for coming on the show this week, it’s great to have a chat outside of our normal work thing. So do you want to just tell the listeners where they can find you online or on Twitter, what’s your main point of contact? Max?
路易斯：绝对。 Well, so thanks both of you for coming on the show this week, it's great to have a chat outside of our normal work thing. So do you want to just tell the listeners where they can find you online or on Twitter, what's your main point of contact? Max?
Max: Sure, I’m @makenosound on Twitter and my website is makenosound.com, and you can find most of my work stuff at icelab.com.au.
Max: Sure, I'm @makenosound on Twitter and my website is makenosound.com , and you can find most of my work stuff at icelab.com.au .
Myles: My Twitter is @madpilot and you can find me at madpilot.com.au, that’s my work website which has the various links to other bits and pieces that I’ve done as well.
Myles: My Twitter is @madpilot and you can find me at madpilot.com.au , that's my work website which has the various links to other bits and pieces that I've done as well.
Louis: Alright, well thanks very much guys! It was pleasure.
Louis: Alright, well thanks very much guys! It was pleasure.
Myles: Cheers.
Myles: Cheers.
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-105-theres-something-about-mobile/
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