SitePoint播客＃63：有两个网站

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最新推荐文章于 2022-03-16 21:57:19 发布

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原文链接：https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-63-there-are-two-webs/

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Episode 63 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@iFroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Brad Williams (@williamsba), and Kevin Yank (@sentience).

SitePoint Podcast的 第63集现已发布！本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @iFroggy )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。这是链接：

~~SitePoint Podcast #63: There Are Two Webs~~ (MP3, 54.3MB, 59:15)
~~SitePoint播客＃63：有两个网站~~ (MP3，54.3MB， ~~59:~~ 15)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主题：

Google Introduces WebM Video Format
Google推出WebM视频格式
Google Introduces Google Font Directory
Google推出了Google字体目录
First Look at Google Chrome Web Apps
首先看一下Google Chrome Web Apps
Twitter API Basic Authorization Ends in 5 Weeks
Twitter API基本授权将在5周内结束

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/63.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/63中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

Patrick: 99designs signing “We are the Champions”
帕特里克： 99designs签署“我们是冠军”
Stephan: HTML5 demos and examples
Stephan： HTML5演示和示例
Brad: Face Recognition API
布拉德：人脸识别API
Kevin: Video JS
凯文：视频JS

显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)

Kevin: May 28th, 2010. The Google IO conference brings big news for web video, fonts, and applications. I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #63: There Are Two Webs.

凯文： 2010年5月28日。GoogleIO大会带来了有关网络视频，字体和应用程序的重大新闻。我是Kevin Yank，这是SitePoint播客＃63：有两个网。

And welcome back to the SitePoint podcast. As always I am Kevin, and I’m with Patrick, Stephan, and Brad once again. Hi guys!

欢迎回到SitePoint播客。我一如既往地是Kevin，又和Patrick，Stephan和Brad在一起。嗨，大家好！

Brad: Hey.

布拉德：嘿。

Stephan: Howdy doody.

斯蒂芬：你好，浑蛋。

Patrick: Hi Kevin.

帕特里克：嗨，凯文。

Kevin: I missed you last week.

凯文：上周我很想你。

Patrick: Did you?

帕特里克：你呢？

Brad: You can be honest.

布拉德：你可以说实话。

Kevin: Yeah!

凯文：是的！

Patrick: Had a nice vacation? No.

帕特里克：假期愉快吗？没有。

Kevin: Last week was your live cast from WordCamp Raleigh. How did that go?

凯文：上周是您从WordCamp Raleigh进行的现场直播。怎么样了

Patrick: It went great actually. It went really smoothly. We had a lot of help from people on the ground, let’s say, that know the technology of podcasting far better than we do.

帕特里克：实际上很棒。一切顺利。可以说，我们从地面人员那里得到了很多帮助，他们比我们更了解播客技术。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Patrick: Like Dave Moyer from Bitwire Media, and an AV assistant that was on site, and Dave basically ran the technology for the show; mics, mixers, USTREAM video, and so on. We focused on the content. We had 11 guests and gave out 33 prizes and it went surprisingly smooth I’d say. You can watch a live — you can watch the broadcast recorded on USTREAM, it’s at ustream.tv/recorded/7124319, or if you go to sitepoint.com/podcast and scroll down a little bit you can see the live stream and you’ll be able to find it from there.

帕特里克(Patrick)：就像Bitwire Media的Dave Moyer一样，还有现场的AV助手，Dave基本上使用了该节目的技术。麦克风，混音器，USTREAM视频等。我们专注于内容。我们有11位客人，颁发了33个奖项，我想说这进展顺利。您可以观看现场直播-您可以观看在USTREAM上录制的广播，该广播位于ustream.tv/recorded/7124319上，或者如果您转到sitepoint.com/podcast并向下滚动一点，则可以看到实时流，并且就能从那里找到它。

Kevin: Hmm-mm, yeah. I heard the audio sounded really great. Those guys who were helping you out with the set-up did a really good job, really impressive work.

凯文：嗯，是的。我听到声音听起来很棒。那些帮助您进行设置的家伙做得非常好，工作非常出色。

So that live podcast is unofficially dubbed podcast #62. So if you’re seeing this one, 63, what happened to 62? 62 was that live podcast. But if you don’t feel like watching the entire two hours on the USTREAM website, rest assured the highlights of that show will be released in future interview weeks, right Patrick?

因此，该直播播客被非正式地称为＃62播客。因此，如果您看到的是这个63，那62发生了什么？ 62是那个现场播客。但是，如果您不想在USTREAM网站上观看整个两个小时，请放心，该节目的要点将在以后的采访周中发布，对吗Patrick？

Patrick: Yeah, I think we’ve decided to release them in probably four episodes, the interviews themselves in chunks about — basically broken up into segments of interviewees; so the WordCamp Raleigh organizers, book authors, podcasters, theme guys, and maybe video bloggers. So it might be four to five grouped together by subject, but they will be out in the next probably two months I would guess.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我想我们已经决定在大约四集中发布它们，访谈本身是成块的-基本上分为受访者部分；因此，WordCamp Raleigh的组织者，书籍作者，播客，主题人物，甚至是视频博客作者。因此，按主题分组可能是四到五个，但是我猜他们可能会在接下来的两个月内消失。

Kevin: Hmm-mm. and how was the rest of the conference? Did you get to take it in at all or was it all live broadcast mania?

凯文：嗯。会议的其余部分怎么样？您是完全接受还是现场直播的狂热狂？

Patrick: Well, it was a lot of fun. It was good to meet Brad for the first time in person. I’ve met Stephan before at conferences a couple of times, but this is the first time we got a chance to hang out, and we all, me and Brad both had talks, I think they both went well and I enjoyed Brad’s and learned some things, and yeah, I go for the networking, to meet people and talk and it was a lot of fun.

帕特里克：嗯，这很有趣。第一次见到布拉德真是太好了。我之前在会议上见过几次斯蒂芬(Stephan)，但这是我们第一次有机会一起出去玩，我们，我和布拉德(Brad)都进行了交谈，我认为他们都进行得很好，我喜欢布拉德(Brad)的学习，是的，是的，我去参加社交活动，结识朋友并聊天，这很有趣。

Kevin: Brad you must’ve been in your element at the WordPress conference.

凯文：布拉德，您一定已经参加WordPress会议。

Brad: I am definitely in my element. I would go to one every weekend if I could to be honest. They really are a great time, and I mean like Patrick said, not only the presentations but the networking really is invaluable. So if you’ve never been to one I highly recommend finding one around you; there’s one or two almost every weekend, so at some point one will be nearby so definitely be there.

布拉德：我绝对是我的角色。老实说，我每个周末去一次。他们确实是一个美好的时光，我的意思是像Patrick所说的那样，不仅是演讲，而且网络确实是无价的。因此，如果您从未去过那里，我强烈建议您在您附近找到一个。几乎每个周末都有一两个人，所以有时某个人会在附近，所以一定在那里。

Kevin: But there was another conference going on last week, and if the organizers of WordCamp Raleigh will excuse me saying so, I think it was a bit bigger. The Google IO conference was stealing headlines left and right. I think when Google decides to do something like that just all eyes turn towards them inevitably because I didn’t hear anything that didn’t originate at the Google IO conference last week I don’t think. We have picked and choosed the highlights, the things that stood out for us for web developers from that conference.

凯文：但是上周又举行了一次会议，如果WordCamp Raleigh的组织者能原谅我这样说，我认为它会更大一些。 Google IO会议在左右窃取头条新闻。我认为，当Google决定做这样的事情时，所有的目光都不可避免地转向他们，因为我没有听到上周在Google IO会议上听到的任何并非起源的事情。我们已经选择了亮点，这些亮点是这次会议上对Web开发人员来说突出的内容。

And the first one was Google’s new web video format. Now, Stephan this is something they had predicted was gonna happen, right?

第一个是Google的新网络视频格式。现在，斯蒂芬，这是他们预料会发生的事情，对吗？

Stephan: Yeah, I think so. I think that people were kind of expecting this and it uses Vorbis, right, for the audio.

斯蒂芬：是的，我想是的。我认为人们对此有所期待，并且使用了Vorbis音频。

So, I mean I think people kind of thought this was coming, and I guess it’s kind of good to see, you know.

所以，我的意思是我认为人们会以为这是即将到来的，我想这很高兴看到。

Kevin: As a recap, all of the browsers had settled on H.264 which is a commercial, patented video format that has been licensed royalty free to content producers on the Web, so we are free to host H.264 video and produce it as much as we like for free at least for the next, I think, till 2015 or something like that; for quite a while anyway. And just the browsers that embed support for playing this back need to pay a licensing fee to the owners of that format. And this was not satisfactory to people who are, you know, very standards minded and want the Web to be free and freely implementable. The theory is that you should be able to write your own web browser without having to pay anyone for the pleasure of using that technology.

凯文(Kevin)：回顾一下，所有浏览器都选择了H.264，这是一种商业专利视频格式，已向Web内容生产商免费提供许可，因此我们可以免费托管和生产H.264视频。我认为，至少在接下来的2015年之内，我们至少会免费。反正好一阵子了。只是内嵌支持播放的浏览器需要向该格式的所有者支付许可费。而且，对于那些非常介意标准并希望Web免费且可自由实施的人们来说，这并不令人满意。从理论上讲，您应该能够编写自己的Web浏览器，而不必为使用该技术的乐趣而付钱给任何人。

And so browsers like Firefox had put their foot down and said, look, we’re not going to support H.264 video, and the only alternative for a while there was Ogg Theora, excuse me, it’s difficult to say; Ogg Theora (laughs) which while free at least for the time being, and there’s some question as to whether any high compression streaming video format can be entirely free of patent encumbrance, but at least for the time being it was free, but the consensus was that it kind of sucked too.

因此，像Firefox这样的浏览器放下了脚步，说，看，我们将不支持H.264视频，而一段时间以来唯一的替代选择是Ogg Theora，对不起，这很难说。 Ogg Theora(大笑)虽然至少暂时是免费的，但对于任何高压缩流视频格式是否可以完全摆脱专利负担存在一些疑问，但至少目前暂时是免费的，但已经达成共识也是很烂。

Brad: Yeah, I think this is pretty exciting. I mean video has been one of the biggest question marks with HTML5 for a while now, so hopefully there’s a clear defined winner, and it looks like just about everybody’s supporting them, so it’s really exciting for HTML5.

布拉德：是的，我认为这很令人兴奋。我的意思是，视频一直是HTML5的最大问号之一，因此希望有一个明确的赢家，而且看起来几乎每个人都在支持它们，因此HTML5确实令人兴奋。

Kevin: Yeah, everyone except Apple. Apple is the big holdout this time around. So, just to lay it out there, WebM, this new video format that Google is introducing is actually sort of three technologies bundled together. You’ve got, as Stephan mentioned, the Ogg Vorbis audio codec, so the audio portion of the video that you’re hearing is encoded in Ogg Vorbis rather than say MP3 or something like that. So, I don’t know, if the fans of Ogg Theora needed some consolation there’s still some Ogg in this, (laughs) where Ogg Theora was the video format, Ogg Vorbis is the audio format. So Ogg Vorbis is considered pretty decent and that made it in.

凯文：是的，除了苹果公司以外的所有人。苹果这次是最大的支持者。因此，Google M推出的这种新视频格式WebM实际上就是将三种技术捆绑在一起。正如Stephan所说，您已经有了Ogg Vorbis音频编解码器，因此，您正在收听的视频的音频部分是使用Ogg Vorbis编码的，而不是说MP3或类似的东西。所以，我不知道，如果Ogg Theora的粉丝需要安慰，还是会有一些Ogg，(笑)Ogg Theora是视频格式，Ogg Vorbis是音频格式。因此，Ogg Vorbis被认为是相当不错的，因此成功了。

The video format, though, is VP8 which is a video encoding technology that Google bought and that everyone was expecting or suggesting at least that Google should open source for the good of the Web, and that sounds — that seems to be exactly what they’ve done.

不过，视频格式是VP8，这是Google购买的一种视频编码技术，每个人都在期待或建议Google至少应该开放源代码来维护Web的利益，这听起来像是他们真正的目标。做了。

And finally there is the actual file format that bundles together this audio and this video and that’s called the container format. And it look like they have reused and enhanced the Matroska file format which is also open source and quite popular. But it was always kind of second fiddle to these MPEG-4 formats that are used for H.264. So is — the consensus, and I’ve linked in the show notes to a really big analysis of this WebM video format and how it holds up against H.264 from one of the developers of x264, which is an open source software package for creating H.264 video. So, dedicated as he is to the H.264 format, he sat down and read through the source code of the — at least the VP8 video format that’s going into WebM. And he had a few choice words. In fact, he had a few tens of thousands choice words reading this thing. It’s a lot to get through, but if you skip to sort of the summary sections he seems to grudgingly admit that the technology is actually pretty good here, but the code, the source code, is kind of messy. So if you were going to try and implement your own VP8 video player or video encoder, you had best plan for some late nights reading ugly C source code.

最后是将音频和视频捆绑在一起的实际文件格式，这就是容器格式。而且看起来他们已经重用和增强了Matroska文件格式，该文件格式也是开源的并且非常流行。但是，对于用于H.264的这些MPEG-4格式，它始终是次要的东西。共识是这样的，我已经在展会记录中链接到了对该WebM视频格式的真正重大分析，以及它如何抵御x264开发人员之一的H.264， x264是x264的开源软件包创建H.264视频。因此，他专注于H.264格式，他坐下来阅读了源代码，至少是WebM即将使用的VP8视频格式。他有几个选择词。实际上，他读这个东西时有成千上万的选择词。要做很多事情，但是如果您跳过摘要部分的内容，他似乎勉强承认这里的技术实际上是相当不错的，但是代码(源代码)有点混乱。因此，如果您打算尝试实现自己的VP8视频播放器或视频编码器，则最好的计划是在深夜阅读丑陋的C源代码。

Stephan: Does he expect the source code to improve? I mean I would assume it’s going to over time?

斯蒂芬：他期望源代码有所改善吗？我的意思是我认为这会随着时间的流逝吗？

Kevin: Well, it seems like reading it, or skimming it, if I am to be honest, he went in expecting that VP8 was actually quite an immature format and that it had a lot of room to grow. But he was surprised to find, first of all, that a lot of the obvious things you can do in a video format to save space and improve quality have already been done. So he says he expects I think they’re about 80 percent of the way there as far as taking advantage of commonly known video compression techniques to get quality and compression. So he was surprised that they were that far along. He said there’s still plenty of room to go with some really advanced techniques if they are able to implement those in a patent-free, open source way, and that’s what formats like H.264 are sort of taking on at this point. So if they go down that road they can make similar great advances coming forward.

凯文：好吧，老实说，好像是阅读还是略读，他一直期待VP8实际上是一种不成熟的格式，并且还有很大的成长空间。但他很惊讶地发现，首先，您可以通过视频格式完成的许多显而易见的事情已经完成，它们可以节省空间并提高质量。因此，他说，他希望我认为就目前为止利用已知的视频压缩技术来获得质量和压缩效果而言，它们的使用率约为80％。因此，他对他们走得这么远感到惊讶。他说，如果某些真正先进的技术能够以无专利，开放源代码的方式实现这些技术，则还有很多空间，而这就是H.264这样的格式正在采用的方式。因此，如果他们走这条路，他们可以取得类似的巨大进步。

But the other thing was that he thought that this code would be really immature and just sort of thrown together in the last couple of years in a bit of a hurry. But he found there were comments in the source code dating back to, oh geez, 2004. The source code was a lot older, yeah, as far back as early 2004, he said, this source code was a lot older than he was expecting and that made him sort of take a step back and go, whoa, I can’t pardon this code for immaturity; it should be pretty mature by this point. And yet there were certainly messy signs of hackery that he was hoping he wouldn’t find in a mature code base.

但是另一件事是，他认为这段代码确实不成熟，在过去的几年中有点匆忙地将它们放在一起。但是他发现源代码中有注释可以追溯到oh geez，2004年。他说，源代码要早得多，可以追溯到2004年初，这个源代码比他预期的要早很多。这让他有点退后一步，哇，我不能因为这段代码不成熟而原谅。至此应该已经相当成熟了。但是，肯定有混乱的黑客迹象，他希望他不会在成熟的代码库中找到。

So I don’t know what we can expect from a free format, you know, beggars can’t be choosers, right?

所以我不知道免费格式对我们有什么期望，乞be不能成为选择者，对吗？

Stephan: Yeah, but I mean it’s an alternative, right? I mean it’s not H.264 and it’s something that we can all use and I mean I see it as a good thing.

斯蒂芬：是的，但是我的意思是替代方案，对吗？我的意思是它不是H.264，它是我们所有人都可以使用的东西，我的意思是我认为它是一件好事。

I don’t know, I mean at the same time I kind of see what happened with Ogg Vorbis too, you know, it kind of died there for a while and no one used it because MP3s became so prevalent. So I’m torn, and I think that Apple not jumping on this and trying to maybe push, since they’re trying to push HTML5 so much, why they’re not pushing this as another open technology I don’t know. So maybe they want to put their boot heel on the throat of Google for producing all these phones (laughs).

我不知道，我的意思是同时我也知道Ogg Vorbis发生了什么，你知道，它在那里死了一段时间，没有人使用它，因为MP3变得如此流行。所以我很伤心，我认为苹果公司没有跳上这一步，而是试图推动，因为他们试图如此大量地推动HTML5，为什么他们不将其作为另一项我不知道的开放技术来推动。因此，也许他们想在生产所有这些手机的过程中把脚跟放在Google的喉咙上(笑)。

Kevin: Reading about it Google announced this and in tandem Firefox announced they’re gonna support it, Opera announced they’re gonna support it, even Internet Explorer said that if you install the VP8 software package that teaches Windows how to play this kind of video, Internet Explorer 9 will support it. And just Google VP Linus Upson says “it’s not a technical challenge; if you look at the other browsers they’ve already implemented VP8, it’s just been a matter of a few weeks.” And I think in the week following Google IO someone said to — well, someone posted one of these Steve Jobs emails where they emailed Steve Jobs at his personal email address and said “Hey, Steve, why aren’t you supporting WebM?” And reportedly he replied just with a link to this analysis of the VP8 format and how messy the code is and all of that.

凯文(Kevin)：在阅读它时，谷歌宣布了这一点，而Firefox则宣布将予以支持，歌剧院宣布将予以支持，甚至Internet Explorer也表示，如果您安装了VP8软件包，可以教Windows如何玩这种游戏。视频，Internet Explorer 9将支持它。只是Google副总裁Linus Upson表示：“这不是技术挑战；如果您查看其他已经实现VP8的浏览器，则只需几个星期即可。” 我想在Google IO出台后的一周里，有人说-好吧，有人在其中发送了一封史蒂夫·乔布斯的电子邮件，然后在他的个人电子邮件地址中向史蒂夫·乔布斯发送了电子邮件，并说：“嘿，史蒂夫，为什么不支持WebM？” 据报道，他只回答了对VP8格式进行分析的链接，以及代码的混乱程度以及所有这些。

So it sounds like Apple is kind of holding its breath. I would be willing to bet that if the content producers play along and start converting all of the content from H.264 to VP8 that we might well see a Safari release. But for now Apple is hedging, it’s keeping its bets. And I can’t blame them because all of their mobile devices, all of the iPhones, all of the iPads come with little chips in them that play H.264 really quickly on minimal battery power.

因此，听起来苹果有点屏住呼吸。我愿意打赌，如果内容制作者参与其中并开始将所有内容从H.264转换为VP8，我们很可能会看到Safari版本。但是就目前而言，苹果公司一直在对冲，一直在押注。我不能责怪他们，因为他们所有的移动设备，所有的iPhone，所有的iPad都装有微芯片，它们以最小的电池电量就能真正快速地播放H.264。

Stephan: Well, yeah. When you invest that much money on something of course you’re gonna want to keep that technology around, right? So it’s obvious why they’re not supporting this.

斯蒂芬：嗯，是的。当您在某物上投入大量资金时，您肯定会希望保留该技术，对吗？所以很明显为什么他们不支持这一点。

Brad: But I mean how long can you hold out if basically every other browser out there is going to support this, how long can Apple hold out and say no we’re not? Eventually I think just the pressure is going to get to them and they’re going to have to.

布拉德：但是我的意思是，如果基本上所有其他浏览器都可以支持这一功能，那么您可以坚持多长时间，苹果可以坚持多长时间并说不，我们不是吗？最终，我认为只是压力会施加到他们身上，而他们将不得不这么做。

Patrick: You can probably hold out until people like developers and people who make the content and release it actually start to use it in a wide way. I think that’s when it’ll become an issue. Then again, most sites use Flash and Apple doesn’t seem overly concerned with that, so I don’t know.

帕特里克：您可能可以坚持下去，直到像开发人员之类的人以及制作并发布内容的人开始广泛使用它为止。我认为那将成为一个问题。再说一次，大多数网站都使用Flash，而Apple似乎并不太担心这一点，所以我不知道。

Stephan: Can they do H.264 you think on the iPads or whatever and then release something for Safari so that it at least supports the format? I mean that doesn’t seem like it’s too difficult just to support the format.

斯蒂芬：他们可以在iPad或其他设备上做您想的H.264，然后为Safari发布某些东西以使其至少支持该格式吗？我的意思是仅支持该格式似乎并不难。

Kevin: It seems like they could if they had to, but it would kill battery life because those devices don’t have hardware decoders for this new VP8 video format. I’m not even sure there’s such a thing as a hardware decoder for VP8. And on today’s Web does it make sense to be standardizing around of format that doesn’t have low-power hardware video decoding on mobile devices. I mean obviously that will come; that will come if this is a successful format, but right now it’s a desktop format.

凯文：如果必须的话，他们似乎可以，但是这会耗尽电池寿命，因为这些设备没有针对这种新VP8视频格式的硬件解码器。我什至不确定是否有VP8的硬件解码器之类的东西。在当今的Web上，有必要对移动设备上没有低功耗硬件视频解码的格式进行标准化。我的意思是显然会到来；如果这是成功的格式，将会出现，但现在是桌面格式。

Stephan: But I mean why can’t they just release a Safari plug-in or an update to Safari that at least supports it in the browser on a Mac or even on Windows; why can’t they do that?

斯蒂芬：但是我的意思是为什么他们不能只发布Safari插件或至少在Mac甚至Windows上的浏览器中支持它的Safari更新；他们为什么不能这样做？

Kevin: They can, but do they want to? Because as we’ve said, obviously if this format gets wide acceptance they are going to have to redesign all of their mobile devices to have new chips in them for playing back this new video format. So it seems like they’re hoping this format will stay the second choice, and so people will continue to encode in H.264 first and then now use VP8 instead of Ogg Theora to support the other browsers like Firefox and Opera that require it. So it’s still a pain for content producers to have to produce two formats for every one of their videos.

凯文：他们可以，但是他们想要吗？因为正如我们已经说过的那样，很显然，如果这种格式被广泛接受，他们将不得不重新设计其所有移动设备，以在其中装有新的芯片来播放这种新的视频格式。因此，似乎他们希望这种格式仍然是第二选择，因此人们将继续首先使用H.264进行编码，然后现在使用VP8而不是Ogg Theora来支持其他需要该格式的浏览器，例如Firefox和Opera。因此，内容制作者必须为每个视频制作两种格式，这仍然是一个痛苦。

And Apple seems to be hoping for that (laughs), which is a shame. It’s a shame.

苹果似乎希望这么做(笑)，这真是可惜。这是一个耻辱。

I don’t know, is there something special about video? Apple seems to be of the opinion that video is special, that we need open, patent-free formats for HTML, for images; all that is fine. But right now video is just too complicated and that it is sensible for everyone who builds a web browser or any device that contains a web browser to pay a license fee to some company that is responsible for that video technology. Is video special; does it get a pass?

我不知道，视频有什么特别之处吗？苹果公司似乎认为视频很特别，我们需要开放的，无专利HTML格式的图像。一切都很好。但是现在，视频太复杂了，对于每个构建Web浏览器或包含Web浏览器的设备的所有人来说，向某个负责该视频技术的公司支付许可费都是明智的。视频很特别吗？获得通行证吗？

Brad: I think it’s a much more complicated thing to do on the Web is work with video, so I think that’s always been kind of the issue is that it hasn’t been to where you have a majority of people that might want to help work on an open source project or something like it, because it is much more involved. So, you know, that might be a part of it.

布拉德：我认为在网络上处理视频是一件更加复杂的事情，所以我认为一直存在的问题是，并不是大多数人想要帮助的地方在一个开源项目或类似项目上工作，因为它涉及更多。因此，您可能知道这可能是其中一部分。

Kevin: Well, I mean if you took the — if everyone on the Web took the same hard line that Mozilla and Opera are taking, that they will not support or endorse any video format that isn’t completely free, then we wouldn’t have iPhones that can play video. We wouldn’t have iPads that can play video for ten hours on one battery charge. These devices wouldn’t exist because the technology for doing low power hardware decoding of video is entirely locked behind patents; it’s owned by commercial companies right now, there is no open source format that let’s us do that. So video on mobile devices would be where it was five years ago right now which is basically nonexistent. And would that be acceptable? Because that seems to be what Mozilla and Opera are saying we need to do for the good of the Web.

凯文：好吧，我的意思是，如果您接受了–如果网络上的每个人都像Mozilla和Opera一样接受强硬立场，即他们将不支持或认可任何并非完全免费的视频格式，那么我们将不会拥有可以播放视频的iPhone。一台电池一次充电，iPad不能播放十个小时的视频。这些设备将不存在，因为用于进行视频的低功耗硬件解码的技术完全被专利保护了。它现在归商业公司所有，没有开源格式可以让我们做到这一点。因此，移动设备上的视频将是五年前的状态，现在基本上不存在。那可以接受吗？因为这似乎就是Mozilla和Opera所说的，我们需要为实现Web的利益而努力。

Stephan: Well, we’ll just wait till Google releases a chip that on an Android phone plays this new format.

史蒂芬：恩，我们要等到Google发布一款在Android手机上播放这种新格式的芯片。

Kevin: That would be the big game changer.

凯文：那将是最大的改变。

Stephan: Yeah. I mean and then you’re going to have people clamoring —

斯蒂芬：是的。我的意思是，然后您将要引起人们的喧闹声-

Brad: Checkmate Apple.

布拉德：将死苹果。

Stephan: Yeah, checkmate.

斯蒂芬：是的，将军。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Patrick: iPhone market share drops from 97 percent to 95.

帕特里克： iPhone市场份额从97％下降到95％。

Kevin: But I have to congratulate Apple for pushing the game forward. They sort of say look we’re not afraid to embrace a little commercial technology to show where these things can go and prove that video in your pocket is something that people want, and then they allow the standards bodies and the Firefox’s and Opera’s of the world to bring up the rear and insist on free and open technology for doing this stuff before they support it. But meanwhile Apple is pushing on to the next thing; it’s like there are two webs, there’s the proprietary experimental web that Apple is playing with, and then there’s the open standard web that Firefox and Opera are playing with, and as a user you’re kind of expected to choose whether you realize what you’re choosing or not.

凯文：但是我必须祝贺苹果将游戏推向前进。他们有点说我们不害怕采用一些商业技术来展示这些东西可以去哪里并证明人们口袋中的视频是人们想要的东西，然后它们允许标准机构以及Firefox和Opera的全世界都鼓吹后方，并在他们支持它之前坚持使用自由和开放的技术来完成这些工作。但是与此同时，苹果正在推进下一件事。就像有两个网站，苹果正在使用专有的实验性网站，然后是Firefox和Opera在玩的开放标准网站，作为用户，您应该选择是否意识到自己的想法。选择与否。

Patrick: What type of web are we playing with?

帕特里克：我们正在玩哪种类型的网络？

Kevin: Yeah. Well, as content producers we’re stuck in the middle. Right now we have to produce content for both formats in order to support as many browsers as possible. So it is the content producers who are suffering here. Oh, it is a tough life; it’s a tough life. And (laughs) Google is trying to make our lives easier with their Google Font Directory which is the second big thing that they announced at Google IO last week, and this one was really exciting to me.

凯文：是的。好吧，作为内容制作者，我们陷入了中间。现在，我们必须为这两种格式生成内容，以便支持尽可能多的浏览器。因此，内容生产者在这里受苦。哦，这是艰难的生活；这是艰难的生活。而且(笑)Google试图通过其Google字体目录使我们的生活更轻松，这是他们上周在Google IO上宣布的第二件大事，这对我来说真的很令人兴奋。

Who else is really excited about the Google font directory? Am I the only font nerd here?

还有谁真的对Google字体目录感到兴奋？我是这里唯一的书呆子吗？

Brad: You love your fonts.

布拉德：您喜欢您的字体。

Kevin: I do! I do! I don’t know why I’m in podcasting, there’s no fonts in podcasting.

凯文：我知道！我做！我不知道为什么要参加播客，播客中没有字体。

Patrick: It’s a catchy name, fontcast.

帕特里克(Patrick)：这是一个醒目的名称，字型转换。

Stephan: Yeah, it’s a fontcast, yeah. Kevin’s font hour. Yeah, I mean this is cool and all, I just don’t know if I’m — the cool factor hasn’t hit me yet I guess. It looks neat but I gotta use it.

斯蒂芬：是的，这是一个字体广播，是的。凯文的字体小时。是的，我的意思是，这很酷，所有人，我只是不知道自己是不是—酷因素还没有影响到我。它看起来很整洁，但我必须使用它。

Kevin: So the idea here is you can go to code.google.com/webfonts, all one word, and there is a collection here of some 20 or so fonts that Google has decided to foot the bill for. We’ve seen in the past year services like Typekit launch and enable web designers to go and pay licensing fees in order to include these new custom commercial fonts in their web designs. So if there’s a particular font in the Typekit library that you really like and you want to use on a website that will display in modern browsers that support downloadable fonts, well, Typekit will let you pay them for that privilege, but it still — that’s a bit of a mental barrier, I think, when all browsers support four maybe five fonts that you can reasonably assume will be present on the system, people tend to limit their thinking and their design choices to those free fonts. And making the decision up front to go, alright, I’m gonna dive into that Typekit library and find something more suitable to my brand to put on my website, and I’m going to plan to pay for that, it’s a tricky decision to make up front, and I think that keeps a lot of designers from diving into these custom fonts.

凯文：所以这里的想法是，您可以访问code.google.com/webfonts ，全都一个字，这里有一个大约20种左右的字体集合，谷歌已决定为此付费。在过去的一年中，我们看到了诸如Typekit推出之类的服务，这些服务使Web设计人员可以去支付许可费用，以便在其Web设计中包含这些新的自定义商业字体。因此，如果您确实喜欢Typekit库中的特定字体，并且希望在将在支持可下载字体的现代浏览器中显示的网站上使用该字体，那么Typekit将允许您为该特权付费，但这仍然是–我认为这有点精神上的障碍，当所有浏览器都支持四种(可能是五种)字体(您可以合理地假定它们会出现在系统上)时，人们倾向于将其思维和设计选择限制为那些免费字体。而且要事先做出决定，好吧，我将深入该Typekit库中，并找到更适合我的品牌的东西放到我的网站上，而我打算为此付费，这是一个棘手的决定来弥补这一点，我认为这使许多设计师无法使用这些自定义字体。

But Google now is saying forget about all that paying stuff, we’re paying for these fonts. Not only are they paying the licensing fees on these fonts, they are also hosting these fonts for you. So all you have to do if you want to use any one, or any combination of these fonts in your web pages, is include in your webpage a link tag that links to a piece of CSS code that Google again hosts, and it includes that font in your page and then you can go nuts. So it’s like we’ve just gotten an upgrade and every modern web browser now supports 20 more free fonts.

但是Google现在说要忘记所有需要付费的东西， 我们要为这些字体付费。他们不仅要为这些字体支付许可费，而且还会为您托管这些字体。因此，如果您想在网页中使用任何一种字体或这些字体的任何组合，您所要做的就是在网页中包含一个链接标记，该标记链接到Google再次托管的一段CSS代码，并且其中包括字体在页面上，然后您可以疯了。因此，就像我们刚刚进行了升级一样，每个现代的网络浏览器现在都支持20多种免费字体。

Brad: Even IE 6.

布拉德：甚至是IE 6。

Kevin: Not IE 6, I’m afraid, no.

凯文：恐怕不是IE 6。

Brad: No, it is supported.

布拉德：不，支持。

Kevin: Oh yeah, you’re right!

凯文：哦，是的，你是对的！

Brad: It says on FAQ.

布拉德：在常见问题上说。

Kevin: I keep forgetting that Internet Explorer has supported downloaded fonts longer than most other browsers.

凯文：我一直忘了Internet Explorer支持下载字体的时间比大多数其他浏览器更长。

Stephan: So this is cool and all, but what is Google getting out of this? That’s what I — they gotta —

史蒂芬：一切都很酷，但是Google从中得到什么呢？那就是我-他们必须-

Patrick: Google loves us. They just want a better web for you and for me; your children Stephan.

帕特里克： Google爱我们。他们只是想为您和我提供更好的网络。您的孩子斯蒂芬。

Stephan: No, no, that’s — that is a dangerous idea, right; there’s a saying, right, that corporations are like bricks, bricks can’t love you back. You can love the brick but they’re not gonna love you back.

斯蒂芬：不，不，那是一个危险的想法，对。有一句话，对，公司就像砖头，砖头不能爱你。你可以爱砖头，但他们不会爱你的。

Kevin: (laughs) I haven’t heard that saying. I have heard don’t look a gift font in the mouth.

凯文：(笑)我还没听过那句话。听说嘴里没有礼物字体。

Patrick: Who coined that, Kevin Yank?

帕特里克：是谁创造的，凯文·扬克？

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Stephan: So I’m just like what is Google wanting from this?

斯蒂芬：所以我就像Google想要的是什么？

Kevin: To hear Google describe their strategy, anything that gets people to browse more web pages that contain more Google ads in them the better it is for Google. So everything they do is geared to make people more addicted to clicking the next link in their web experience. I don’t know if fonts do that.

凯文：听到Google描述他们的策略时，任何能使人们浏览其中包含更多Google广告的网页，对Google来说都是更好的选择。因此，他们所做的一切都旨在使人们更加沉迷于单击Web体验中的下一个链接。我不知道字体是否能做到这一点。

I agree with you. This kind of stands out as a ‘huh’?

我同意你的看法。这种脱颖而出是“呵呵”吗？

Stephan: This is a little strange for them. Almost as strange as Web TV; it’s a little weird.

史蒂芬：这对他们来说有点奇怪。几乎和网络电视一样奇怪；这有点奇怪。

Patrick: I think a lot of these fonts are accent fonts. I mean if you open up the previews when they get down to the 12 or the 14, kind of the normal text size, one might say, they’re just not as clear as some of the standard fonts I guess. I don’t know, I think it’s cool to have variety though, and it’s cool to have it work with everyone, so it’s a good thing, but like Stephan I always kind of look at Google and wonder.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我认为其中许多字体都是带重音的字体。我的意思是，如果您打开预览时将其缩小到普通文本大小的12或14，可能会说，它们不像我猜的某些标准字体那么清晰。我不知道，但是我认为拥有多样性很酷，并且可以与每个人一起工作很酷，所以这是一件好事，但是像Stephan一样，我总是对Google充满好奇。

Kevin: There are at least two fonts here that are really, um, I think we’re gonna see them overused very quickly. They’re very showy, very sort of character fonts; Lobster and Reenie Beanie are these two fonts — font names: don’t get me started. But Lobster especially I think we will be seeing on a lot of websites as sort of the logo text at the top and it’s going to become overused.

凯文：这里至少有两种字体，嗯，我想我们会很快看到它们过度使用的。它们非常漂亮，字符字体也很丰富。龙虾和雷尼·比尼(Reenie Beanie)是这两种字体-字体名称：不要误会我。但是，尤其是龙虾，我认为我们会在许多网站上看到徽标文字在顶部，并且将被过度使用。

But, there are at least two-thirds to three-quarters of these are quite, I would call them plain and readable and workhorse fonts that you could very easily use for paragraph text. And there’s even a nice mono-spaced font, so finally at last we can get rid of Courier New for showing off code when we want to do a tutorial of some kind. I’m really looking forward to replacing all of the code listings across SitePoint with Inconsolata, which is the nice new monospaced font that they included in this collection.

但是，至少有三分之二到四分之三是相当的字体，我将它们称为纯字体，可读性和主力字体，您可以很容易地将其用于段落文本。而且甚至还有一个不错的等距字体，因此最后，我们终于可以摆脱Courier New的服务，当我们想要进行某种类型的教程时，可以炫耀代码。我非常期待用Inconsolata替换SitePoint中的所有代码清单，这是它们包含在此收藏夹中的漂亮的新等宽字体。

Patrick: As you read these fonts it makes me think of dinner. What’s the house special? Well, Mr. Yank, the Lobster Reenie Beanie is quite delicious.

帕特里克：当您阅读这些字体时，我想起了晚餐。这房子有什么特色？ Yank先生，龙虾Reenie Beanie非常好吃。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Patrick: And would you like that with a side of Inconsolata?

帕特里克：您想和Inconsolata在一起吗？

Kevin: (laughs) Can I interest you in a Molengo? Yeah, I see what you’re saying.

凯文：(笑)我能使您感兴趣吗？是的，我明白你在说什么。

Does anyone else see any rendering glitches when they scroll up and down this page? I’m in Safari and Safari, while it does support downloadable fonts; they’re still kind of pushing the bounds, and I think having 20 of them in the one page is kind of pushing the limits because the dot on the I in Nobile has sort of fallen off the I and is sitting on the baseline between the B and the I. And when you scroll up and down a little erratically you tend to find text is only half painted in places.

上下滚动此页面时，其他人是否看到任何渲染故障？我在Safari和Safari中，虽然它确实支持可下载的字体；它们仍在不断突破极限，我认为在一页中包含20个极限在某种程度上推动了极限，因为Nobile中I上的点有点脱离I并位于两个之间的基线上B和I。当您不规则地向上和向下滚动时，您会发现文本仅在一半位置上绘制。

Stephan: That’s an Apple problem (laughs).

斯蒂芬：那是苹果的问题(笑)。

Kevin: Yeah, it is an Apple problem and I think the fact that Google has released these 20 fonts is finally going to push browsers to fully — implement full and robust support for these downloadable fonts. It’s kind of been at a technology demo stage for the past year. Kind of the browsers have done just enough to make this feature available and they’re kind of waiting and seeing if it gets used before they invest any more time in it I would say. And Google is really hoping to tip them over the edge and force them to fully support this stuff.

凯文：是的，这是一个苹果公司的问题，我认为Google发布了这20种字体的事实最终将推动浏览器全面发展-对这些可下载字体实现完全而强大的支持。过去一年一直处于技术演示阶段。各种各样的浏览器已经做了足够的工作以使此功能可用，我会说，他们在等待更多时间之前正在等待它的使用。 Google确实希望将它们推向边缘，并迫使他们完全支持这些东西。

Patrick: I’m in Firefox and I was gonna say the fonts actually look pretty good to me across the board. But then again on this main page they’re all at probably the 40/44 pixel size, so it may a little easier to look good at that stage. The Canterell font at the top though just looks a little sketchy to me, I don’t know, maybe that’s the style it is, but it’s like rough around the edges so I don’t know.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我在Firefox中，我要说的是，这些字体实际上对我来说看起来都很不错。但是在此主页上，它们的大小均为40/44像素，因此在该阶段看起来不错。顶部的Canterell字体对我来说似乎有点粗略，我不知道，也许这就是它的样式，但是它的边缘有些粗糙，所以我不知道。

Kevin: Hmm, it’s pretty sharp. Yeah, you’re on Firefox on Windows as well, which for a while there had a reputation for horrible custom font rendering. So it’s really encouraging to hear they even look good in Firefox for Windows because that’s kind of a worst case scenario I’ve heard.

凯文：嗯，这很犀利。是的，您也在Windows上的Firefox上运行，有一段时间以来，它在恐怖的自定义字体渲染方面享有盛誉。因此，听到它们甚至在Windows的Firefox中看起来还不错的确令人鼓舞，因为这是我所听到的最坏的情况。

Patrick: Well, thank you.

帕特里克：恩，谢谢。

Kevin: (laughs) Patrick! The worst case scenario.

凯文：(笑)帕特里克！最坏的情况。

Patrick: My computer setup is the worst case scenario, awesome!

帕特里克：我的计算机设置是最坏的情况，太棒了！

Kevin: Maybe if you were running Firefox 2 still you would see worse results.

凯文：也许如果您正在运行Firefox 2，您仍然会看到较差的结果。

Patrick: At WordCamp Raleigh we were talking about how I still have yet to download Google Chrome, so.

帕特里克(Patrick)：在WordCamp Raleigh，我们正在谈论我仍然如何下载Google Chrome。

Kevin: Oh, well. Speaking of Google Chrome, that was the third big announcement at Google IO, the coming soon in Google Chrome is Chrome Web Apps and specifically an app store for the Web.

凯文：哦，好。说到Chrome浏览器，这是Google IO的第三个重要公告，即将推出的Chrome浏览器是Chrome Web Apps，尤其是Web 应用商店。

Stephan, are you impressed by this as a fellow iPhone user who has been once or twice around the app store?

史蒂芬(Stephan)，您对曾经在应用商店中逛过一两次的iPhone用户感到印象深刻吗？

Stephan: Yeah, I think it’ll be a cool deal. I’m kind of looking forward to it a little bit.

斯蒂芬：是的，我认为这将是一件很酷的事情。我有点期待。

Kevin: Really?

凯文：真的吗？

Stephan: Nothing really excites me much more about the iPhone, you know, nothing comes out.

斯蒂芬：关于iPhone，没有什么让我真正兴奋的，你知道，什么也没有。

Kevin: It’s done.

凯文：完成了。

Stephan: Yeah, this is kind of — this is kind of getting me a little fired up.

斯蒂芬：是的，这是一种-这有点让我有些生气。

Patrick: Hot and bothered.

帕特里克：很热，很烦。

Kevin: The screenshots that TechCrunch have look kind of neat. I have to admit the idea that web pages aren’t things that you have to remember the addresses of and bookmark and visit, they become sort of icons that are permanently housed in the tab bar of your browser of choice, and you can launch these Web applications be they Google Mail or Calendar or Yahoo! Mail or whatever it might be; you just click these icons that float permanently in the tab bar of your browser, or at least that’s how Google is planning to do it in Chrome, and launch these as if they were applications installed in your browser. And whatever additional privileges these applications would need to do their jobs really well, whether they need access to your local hard drive to store cache files so they run quicker or work offline, whether they need access to other parts of your webpage or access to communicate with other websites, all that stuff they ask you for that permission when you “install” them in your browser rather than bothering you every time that one of those privileges like, for example, getting your Geolocation information, rather than bothering you every time. So it kind of looks slick. I’m not sure I want to turn my browser into an operating system, that’s the subtext here for me.

凯文： TechCrunch的屏幕截图看起来很整洁。我必须承认，网页不是您必须记住的地址，添加书签和访问的东西，它们变成了永久保存在您选择的浏览器的选项卡栏中的图标，您可以启动它们Web应用程序可以是Google Mail或Calendar或Yahoo! 邮件或任何可能的邮件；您只需单击永久悬浮在浏览器标签栏中的这些图标，或者至少这就是Google计划在Chrome浏览器中执行的图标，然后将它们作为浏览器中安装的应用程序启动。无论这些应用程序需要访问您本地硬盘驱动器来存储缓存文件，以便它们更快地运行还是脱机工作，它们是否需要访问您本地的硬盘驱动器，以及是否需要访问您网页的其他部分或进行通信的访问权限，以及获得这些特权所需的其他特权在其他网站上，当您将它们“安装”到浏览器中时，他们会要求您提供所有这些权限，而不是每次都获得这些特权之一(例如获取您的地理位置信息)而困扰您，而不是每次都困扰您。所以它看起来很光滑。我不确定是否要将浏览器转换为操作系统，这就是我的潜台词。

Stephan: And that’s kind of where I was thinking that this was going. Like is this the beginning of Google’s OS, you know, the Web OS that they’ve been —

史蒂芬：那是我一直在想的事情。就像这是Google操作系统的开始一样，您知道他们所使用的Web操作系统-

Kevin: Chrome OS.

凯文： Chrome OS。

Stephan: The Cloud OS, Chrome OS, yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的，云操作系统，Chrome操作系统。

Patrick: Google Chrome Cloud OS, version 1.2 beta.

帕特里克： Google Chrome Cloud OS 1.2 beta版。

Kevin: (laughs) Well, this is what they’ve said, they’re gonna release — as successful as Android is and as much as they were talking all about Android at Google IO last week, they have this other operating system they’re working on called Chrome OS, and they want to release these sort of netbook kind of devices that all they do is run the Chrome browser. So you open them up and instantly the Chrome browser pops up, and that Chrome browser is your OS. And so if you want to be able to install applications in any meaningful way on this new Chrome OS device then you need to support applications in the browser. So this seems to me to be those pipes that they’re laying in order to be able to have this Chrome OS be something of a full computer experience.

凯文：(笑)好吧，这就是他们所说的，即将发布-就像Android一样成功，以及上周他们在Google IO上谈论Android的程度一样，他们拥有其他操作系统正在使用称为Chrome操作系统的设备，他们希望发布此类上网本设备，而他们所要做的只是运行Chrome浏览器。因此，您打开它们并立即弹出Chrome浏览器，并且该Chrome浏览器就是您的操作系统。因此，如果您希望能够以任何有意义的方式在此新的Chrome操作系统设备上安装应用程序，则需要在浏览器中支持应用程序。因此，对我来说，这似乎是它们铺设的管道，以便使此Chrome操作系统具有完整的计算机体验。

But how much is that going to affect the way the Web in general works? Is this just going to be a gimmick that you only use on Chrome OS devices or are we going to see new web applications being released as apps that you install in your browser not as sites that you visit?

但是，这将在多大程度上影响整个Web的工作方式？这只是您仅在Chrome操作系统设备上使用的a头，还是我们将看到新的Web应用程序作为您在浏览器中安装的应用程序发布而不是作为您访问的网站发布？

Stephan: That’s blurring the line again, you know, of what’s in the web app and what’s a tool. I don’t know, I think we’re going to see people get in on this game for a little while and see how it works. I mean did they say if they’re gonna be able to sell them or anything?

史蒂芬(Stephan)：这又一次模糊了网络应用程序和工具的界限。我不知道，我认为我们将看到人们参与该游戏一段时间，并观察其运作方式。我的意思是，他们说他们是否能够出售它们或其他任何东西？

Kevin: Yes, yes, developers will be able to sell them; the Google Chrome app store will just like Apple’s app store for their devices enable developers to charge for access to web applications. And Google will handle all the ecommerce and do a nice profit sharing split. And so, yeah, it is an easy platform for monetizing web applications certainly.

凯文：是的，开发商可以出售它们。 Google Chrome应用商店就像苹果公司的设备商店一样，使开发人员可以为访问Web应用程序付费。 Google将处理所有电子商务，并实现良好的利润分成。因此，是的，它无疑是一个用于通过Web应用程序获利的简单平台。

Stephan: Did you see the market? Because I know the Android market is one of the easiest — the Android market for developers is one of the easiest to use. I mean if it’s easy to sell a web app on this thing maybe people will pick it up.

斯蒂芬：你看到市场了吗？因为我知道Android市场是最容易的市场之一-开发人员的Android市场是最容易使用的市场之一。我的意思是，如果很容易在此产品上销售网络应用，那么人们可能会选择它。

Kevin: I think it’s early days, typical for Google IO it’s kind of a just barely got a tech demo working.

凯文(Kevin)：我认为这是早期的事情，对于Google IO来说，这通常只是一个技术演示而已。

Stephan: Yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Kevin: So I think we’re a ways off from seeing the final design. But what they did announce is that, yeah, they’re planning to have a web app store where people can charge for their web apps or release them for free if they want.

凯文：所以我认为我们离最终设计还有一段距离。但是，他们确实宣布的是，是的，他们计划建立一个网络应用商店，人们可以在其中为自己的网络应用付费，或者根据需要免费发布它们。

I kind of like it as a concept. For a long time I would complain that we are — the fact that you can’t tell the difference between a web page that operates as a document versus a web application that operates as kind of virtual desktop experience just inside the sandbox of your browser. You can’t really tell the difference between those two things when they are just URL’s on the page or just links you’re considering whether to click or not. And that those types of content really should be separate in some way even if they are both considered part of the Web, we have this web of applications and we have this web of pages and they are interlinked, but the line was a little too blurry for me.

我有点喜欢它作为一个概念。很长一段时间以来，我都会抱怨我们是这样的事实：您无法分辨充当文档的网页与只是作为浏览器沙箱内部的虚拟桌面体验的Web应用程序之间的区别。当它们仅仅是页面上的URL或您正在考虑是否要单击的链接时，您无法真正分辨出这两种情况之间的区别。而且即使这些内容都被视为Web的一部分，这些内容的类型实际上也应该以某种方式分开，我们拥有这个应用程序网络，并且拥有这个网页页面，并且它们是相互链接的，但是界线有些模糊为了我。

So this kind of is a nice step towards separating out those applications and saying alright folks, the applications are over here, they’re things you install in your browser; the web pages are over there, they’re things you visit in your browser. And I kind of like that concept. It worries me that Google is implementing this as something branded Google as a commercial enterprise in support of their browser on their upcoming operating system. It feels uncharacteristically closed to me. I wonder how much of this technology is open; whether a competing app store could open up and sell applications into the Google Chrome OS as well, and whether Google’s app store would be willing to sell into non-Google browsers.

因此，这是迈出分离这些应用程序并说好人，这是您在浏览器中安装的东西的好一步。网页在那边，它们就是您在浏览器中访问的东西。我有点喜欢这个概念。令我感到担忧的是，谷歌正在将其实现为谷歌品牌，将其作为商业企业来支持其即将推出的操作系统上的浏览器。感觉对我来说很特别。我不知道这项技术有多少开放？是否有竞争的应用商店也可以打开应用程序并将其出售到Google Chrome OS中，以及Google的应用商店是否愿意出售给非Google浏览器。

Patrick: Can a competing app store open up and sell apps to the iPhone?

帕特里克(Patrick)：一家竞争应用商店可以开设应用并向iPhone出售吗？

Kevin: Yeah, that would be nice.

凯文：是的，那很好。

Patrick: You know, it’s a weird thing because essentially what we’re talking about, and it’s a few different things, but a browser add-on, I mean we can call it apps, right, or you can call it add-ons or you can call it plug-ins or you can call it software; how many successful paid browser add-ons are there out there right now?

Patrick: You know, it's a weird thing because essentially what we're talking about, and it's a few different things, but a browser add-on, I mean we can call it apps, right, or you can call it add-ons or you can call it plug-ins or you can call it software; how many successful paid browser add-ons are there out there right now?

Kevin: Hmm. Yeah.

凯文：嗯。是的

Patrick: I don’t know. You create a market, I mean the iPhone created let’s say the app store market, but people pay for the iPhone, people pay for their computer, but will they make the leap to say okay a browser add-on adds so much value that I will pay .99 cents or $1.99 or $2.99 or more? Or is it viewed as — will it always be tied to the Web like you pay to subscribe to a website, a gaming website, play games online or you pay to subscribe to this publication; is that the model? Is it essentially always a webpage tab? I mean you’re limited within the browser to what you can do. A browser will always be a browser unless it’s something different entirely, and that doesn’t appear to be the case here.

帕特里克：我不知道。 You create a market, I mean the iPhone created let's say the app store market, but people pay for the iPhone, people pay for their computer, but will they make the leap to say okay a browser add-on adds so much value that I will pay .99 cents or $1.99 or $2.99 or more? Or is it viewed as — will it always be tied to the Web like you pay to subscribe to a website, a gaming website, play games online or you pay to subscribe to this publication; is that the model? Is it essentially always a webpage tab? I mean you're limited within the browser to what you can do. A browser will always be a browser unless it's something different entirely, and that doesn't appear to be the case here.

Kevin: Yeah. A good thought exercise I think is, for example, Google apps. SitePoint uses Google apps just like many companies do to host their email and shared calendars and all that sort of stuff. And we pay an annual fee to use that web application. And so there is an example of a successful web application that is charging for its service. But if you bring that into this Google apps marketplace, and you make it something that you go to in your Chrome browser and you install in your Chrome browser as a tab and the Chrome app marketplace says that will be twenty bucks for a year of access please, and you fork it over, then you go to your friend’s house or you open up your iPhone and you want to access that application not as a Chrome installed app but as a web application, are you able to? Because you bought access to that application through the app store, can you only access it through the app store? I’m hoping not, but there is this whole sort of tangly mess of user experience and expectation that they’re going to have to make really clear here for this to be a success.

凯文：是的。 A good thought exercise I think is, for example, Google apps. SitePoint uses Google apps just like many companies do to host their email and shared calendars and all that sort of stuff. And we pay an annual fee to use that web application. And so there is an example of a successful web application that is charging for its service. But if you bring that into this Google apps marketplace, and you make it something that you go to in your Chrome browser and you install in your Chrome browser as a tab and the Chrome app marketplace says that will be twenty bucks for a year of access please, and you fork it over, then you go to your friend's house or you open up your iPhone and you want to access that application not as a Chrome installed app but as a web application, are you able to? Because you bought access to that application through the app store, can you only access it through the app store? I'm hoping not, but there is this whole sort of tangly mess of user experience and expectation that they're going to have to make really clear here for this to be a success.

Patrick: Yeah, I think and — I don’t know, I think it’s the Web, I mean I don’t know, I just see it a little simpler, I don’t know, that they’re going to have to have a web or, look it at like this, you have apps and you have the website; if there’s no website to login to if it’s not login based or some sort of validation then no you can’t access it through the web, it’s a piece of software like you buy a Windows application, you install it on your Windows desktop, and that’s where you use it. That’s the same kind of thing that would happen here, and really how many examples are there, let’s say, of an “app store” selling apps for varied platforms. I don’t think there are any, many, I don’t know.

Patrick: Yeah, I think and — I don't know, I think it's the Web, I mean I don't know, I just see it a little simpler, I don't know, that they're going to have to have a web or, look it at like this, you have apps and you have the website; if there's no website to login to if it's not login based or some sort of validation then no you can't access it through the web, it's a piece of software like you buy a Windows application, you install it on your Windows desktop, and that's where you use it. That's the same kind of thing that would happen here, and really how many examples are there, let's say, of an “app store” selling apps for varied platforms. I don't think there are any, many, I don't know.

Kevin: Yeah, even Adobe, before they did Adobe AIR as a free platform, if you want to charge for an Adobe AIR app good luck to you, that’s your problem to solve. But before that they had, oh, can anyone even remember what it was called? It was sort of the same technology that it was this bringing Flash and web technology to the desktop for applications, but it was tied together with an app store of sorts, that Adobe was going to let people sell apps in.

Kevin: Yeah, even Adobe, before they did Adobe AIR as a free platform, if you want to charge for an Adobe AIR app good luck to you, that's your problem to solve. But before that they had, oh, can anyone even remember what it was called? It was sort of the same technology that it was this bringing Flash and web technology to the desktop for applications, but it was tied together with an app store of sorts, that Adobe was going to let people sell apps in.

They gave me a tech demo of it sort of as an early press preview, and it was — I had the same sort of reaction that it sounds like you’re having to this Patrick, that it was like, oh okay, but is this really gonna work? People aren’t used to paying for that kind of thing. That was their big challenge is they were trying to make it cross platform, it was gonna be this Windows, Mac, wherever Flash goes this app store goes. It was I think Flex came after it, they kind of when this didn’t work they packed up and then they built their desktop widgets on the Web for Flex and now Adobe AIR is their second attempt to bring it to the desktop. And the piece that is clearly missing is the ability to sell Air apps commercially through some centralized app store. It seems like Adobe gave up on doing that and Google is gonna have a shot now, but will it succeed? I don’t know. Patrick I think your skepticism is well founded.

They gave me a tech demo of it sort of as an early press preview, and it was — I had the same sort of reaction that it sounds like you're having to this Patrick, that it was like, oh okay, but is this really gonna work? People aren't used to paying for that kind of thing. That was their big challenge is they were trying to make it cross platform, it was gonna be this Windows, Mac, wherever Flash goes this app store goes. It was I think Flex came after it, they kind of when this didn't work they packed up and then they built their desktop widgets on the Web for Flex and now Adobe AIR is their second attempt to bring it to the desktop. And the piece that is clearly missing is the ability to sell Air apps commercially through some centralized app store. It seems like Adobe gave up on doing that and Google is gonna have a shot now, but will it succeed? 我不知道。 Patrick I think your skepticism is well founded.

Patrick: As the least technically savvy person here, yes! Yes! My skepticism is founded, how about that.

Patrick: As the least technically savvy person here, yes! 是! My skepticism is founded, how about that.

Kevin: (laughs) One last thing before we wrap it up this week is the Twitter API is having massive changes in the next five weeks or so. It’s been awhile since we have fixated on Twitter. It used to be it seemed like you couldn’t even go through a podcast without spending half an hour talking about Twitter. And we’ve kind of — I don’t know what’s happened Brad?

Kevin: (laughs) One last thing before we wrap it up this week is the Twitter API is having massive changes in the next five weeks or so. It's been awhile since we have fixated on Twitter. It used to be it seemed like you couldn't even go through a podcast without spending half an hour talking about Twitter. And we've kind of — I don't know what's happened Brad?

Patrick: Now it’s HTML5.

Patrick: Now it's HTML5.

Kevin: (laughs) Yeah, now it’s HTML5; HTML5 is the new Twitter.

Kevin: (laughs) Yeah, now it's HTML5; HTML5 is the new Twitter.

Patrick: (laughs) That’s wrong in every single sense except for our podcast.

Patrick: (laughs) That's wrong in every single sense except for our podcast.

Kevin: (laughs) Brad, what is it about Twitter that we’ve kind of — it’s not hot anymore? At least not as far as podcasts are concerned.

Kevin: (laughs) Brad, what is it about Twitter that we've kind of — it's not hot anymore? At least not as far as podcasts are concerned.

Brad: Well, I mean it’s just not the new kid on the block anymore, you know, Twitter first came out in ’06 and it really started to get hot on the tech scene in ’07, and it was just every other day there was something new to talk about; their new apps, new API’s, whatever it was. And now it’s like, well, we all still use Twitter on a daily basis I’m sure, but it’s you know, it’s Twitter, it’s there and we use it and that’s what it is, so.

Brad: Well, I mean it's just not the new kid on the block anymore, you know, Twitter first came out in '06 and it really started to get hot on the tech scene in '07, and it was just every other day there was something new to talk about; their new apps, new API's, whatever it was. And now it's like, well, we all still use Twitter on a daily basis I'm sure, but it's you know, it's Twitter, it's there and we use it and that's what it is, so.

Patrick: Yeah, HTML5 is so hot right now. My mom just asked me about it the other day, I mean it’s that hot. Paris Hilton just threw it out there on Twitter; HTML5, that’s hot. Anyway.

Patrick: Yeah, HTML5 is so hot right now. My mom just asked me about it the other day, I mean it's that hot. Paris Hilton just threw it out there on Twitter; HTML5, that's hot. 无论如何。

Kevin: But, Brad, the irony is that I think there is more going on in terms of development of Twitter as a service now than there has ever been before. But people seem less interested. It’s like people are a lot more interested in theorizing and gossiping about something that isn’t progressing that we all wish it was, then once it starts moving it’s kind of like, oh, well that’s pretty boring.

Kevin: But, Brad, the irony is that I think there is more going on in terms of development of Twitter as a service now than there has ever been before. But people seem less interested. It's like people are a lot more interested in theorizing and gossiping about something that isn't progressing that we all wish it was, then once it starts moving it's kind of like, oh, well that's pretty boring.

Brad: Kind of like their ads.

Kevin: (laughs) What ads? Twitter’s running ads now?

Kevin: (laughs) What ads? Twitter's running ads now?

Brad: Oh, the ads we’ve talked about. I don’t know if they’re up for everybody, I haven’t seen them, but the sponsored tweets is —

Brad: Oh, the ads we've talked about. I don't know if they're up for everybody, I haven't seen them, but the sponsored tweets is —

Patrick: Actually Twitter just said they’re gonna block — yeah, they’re gonna block any third party ad networks in Twitter. There’s been a few that have popped up, Adly, sponsored tweets, just I think it was the last couple of days they announced that those sorts of networks will be blocked from the platform because they’re gonna change their terms to make it a violation.

Patrick: Actually Twitter just said they're gonna block — yeah, they're gonna block any third party ad networks in Twitter. There's been a few that have popped up, Adly, sponsored tweets, just I think it was the last couple of days they announced that those sorts of networks will be blocked from the platform because they're gonna change their terms to make it a violation.

Brad: We should have another Twitter episode.

Stephan: Everyone’s just focused on Facebook and privacy issues and all that.

Stephan: Everyone's just focused on Facebook and privacy issues and all that.

Kevin: Maybe next week guys; maybe next week.

Stephan: (laughs)

斯蒂芬：(笑)

Kevin: Patrick just sent around a really interesting graph from Compete; it’s the Compete graph from Twitter.com for the past year. And it was like crazy insane growth in the first half of 2009, and then it’s just leveled out and if anything in the past — in the start of 2010 it’s slipping down; the number of unique visitors that are going to Twitter.com.

Kevin: Patrick just sent around a really interesting graph from Compete; it's the Compete graph from Twitter.com for the past year. And it was like crazy insane growth in the first half of 2009, and then it's just leveled out and if anything in the past — in the start of 2010 it's slipping down; the number of unique visitors that are going to Twitter.com.

Patrick: I mean it’s only the homepage, right, so what a lot of people would say well, okay, but what about the mobile use, how are people using it with their apps and on the phones and whatnot. But still, I think it would be reflected in that, so it’s telling if not completely precise.

Patrick: I mean it's only the homepage, right, so what a lot of people would say well, okay, but what about the mobile use, how are people using it with their apps and on the phones and whatnot. But still, I think it would be reflected in that, so it's telling if not completely precise.

Kevin: So the big thing that’s happening with Twitter is their changing their API, Brad?

Kevin: So the big thing that's happening with Twitter is their changing their API, Brad?

Brad: Yeah, exactly. So, basically when the API first launched you could do basic authentication. It’s actually you literally just send username and password through like an HTTP request.

布拉德：是的，确实如此。 So, basically when the API first launched you could do basic authentication. It's actually you literally just send username and password through like an HTTP request.

Kevin: So when I install like a Twitter app on my phone and it asks me to type in my Twitter username and password and I get a little nervous because I’m telling someone else my Twitter username and password, is that because it’s using basic authentication?

Kevin: So when I install like a Twitter app on my phone and it asks me to type in my Twitter username and password and I get a little nervous because I'm telling someone else my Twitter username and password, is that because it's using basic authentication?

Brad: Well, it could be, I mean you never know exactly what that app is doing behind the scenes because you can also use OAuth which is basically what Twitter is going to start requiring in five weeks.

Kevin: So the idea of OAuth is once everyone is using OAuth you should never type your Twitter credentials into any page except a Twitter webpage. Because an app that wants access to your Twitter account will actually just send you to a Twitter webpage that says this app is requesting access to your Twitter account, do you want to allow it or not. And so you never actually have to give your Twitter password to anyone except Twitter. That seems to be the idea.

Brad: Yeah, I mean all of the old — you know when all the — Twitter was first getting hot, like all the little startups that integrated with Twitter, they would grab your username and password and it would essentially have to save it because every time you needed to access the API they would need your username and password to do so.

Kevin: Yeah.

凯文：是的。

Brad: But yeah, you’re right, now they don’t need to do that. So you basically have five weeks if you have a Twitter-based service to update that from basic authentication to OAuth.

Brad: But yeah, you're right, now they don't need to do that. So you basically have five weeks if you have a Twitter-based service to update that from basic authentication to OAuth.

Kevin: I know when we first did something with Twitter on SitePoint it was one of our big sales; once you participated in the sale you could tweet about it to your friends, and we had sort of a Twitter graph, not a graph, but sort of a timeline down the side of people talking about the sale. And the first time we did it, it was all done through basic authentication; we just used the SitePoint Twitter account and we accessed the API using the SitePoint Twitter account’s username and password. And we had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get that account white-listed so that we could hit the API a little harder than a typical user would, and it was a real pain. And a year later when we came back to do the same sort of sale we needed to get that account white-listed again, they said no, we’re not gonna white-list your account, we don’t do that anymore, you should be using OAuth instead; that solves the problem. And it added an extra week for us to figure out OAuth because it is considerably more difficult than just sending a username and password with all of your requests. But once we did it, it solved all of those problems.

Kevin: I know when we first did something with Twitter on SitePoint it was one of our big sales; once you participated in the sale you could tweet about it to your friends, and we had sort of a Twitter graph, not a graph, but sort of a timeline down the side of people talking about the sale. And the first time we did it, it was all done through basic authentication; we just used the SitePoint Twitter account and we accessed the API using the SitePoint Twitter account's username and password. And we had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get that account white-listed so that we could hit the API a little harder than a typical user would, and it was a real pain. And a year later when we came back to do the same sort of sale we needed to get that account white-listed again, they said no, we're not gonna white-list your account, we don't do that anymore, you should be using OAuth instead; that solves the problem. And it added an extra week for us to figure out OAuth because it is considerably more difficult than just sending a username and password with all of your requests. But once we did it, it solved all of those problems.

Brad: Yeah, there’s no — I don’t believe there’s any rate limits, right, once you’re using OAuth?

Brad: Yeah, there's no — I don't believe there's any rate limits, right, once you're using OAuth?

Kevin: The thing was that every user who visited the site would be giving us their Twitter — would be authorizing us to access their twitter account anyway because one of the requirements for participating in this particular sale was that you had to follow SitePoint, at least temporarily, in order to get access to the sale. So we would request through OAuth access to their account to verify that they were following us, and because we then had OAuth access to their account, then we they wanted to see our Twitter timeline they could do it through their account. And so we were sharing everyone’s rate limit instead of pounding on one particular account. It makes so much more sense.

Kevin: The thing was that every user who visited the site would be giving us their Twitter — would be authorizing us to access their twitter account anyway because one of the requirements for participating in this particular sale was that you had to follow SitePoint, at least temporarily, in order to get access to the sale. So we would request through OAuth access to their account to verify that they were following us, and because we then had OAuth access to their account, then we they wanted to see our Twitter timeline they could do it through their account. And so we were sharing everyone's rate limit instead of pounding on one particular account. It makes so much more sense.

Brad: Yeah, I know, like TweetDeck, for example, which is a popular desktop client, once they released a new version I want to say a month or two ago that introduced OAuth, and since then there are no more rate limits. So rather than only be able to hit the Twitter API 150 times an hour you can hit it essentially as many times as you wanted which was pretty nice.

Kevin: Hmm, yeah. And you know Twitter, the website, about this countdowntooauth.com has a sort of a countdown timer explaining exactly when they’re going to switch off the old basic authentication method, and they’ve got sort of list of reasons why OAuth authentication is a good thing, why it’s better. And one of the ones is that it improves their ability to scale and plan for heavy loads. So when we do a sale like that and our application is hitting their servers hard, they are able to see that application is the source of that traffic rather than just one particular account is misbehaving. So they can tell the difference between a popular application that they need to allow more capacity for and an account that has been taken over by spammers and is being abused. It’s just so much more robust a system and I love OAuth dearly as a result of that. But if I were a user who is using a Twitter client, a desktop Twitter client, that relied on basic authentication I might be a little angry; especially if the developer of that app was not actively maintaining it anymore because in five weeks’ time when they throw this switch, a whole bunch of old Twitter clients are just gonna stop working.

凯文：嗯，是的。 And you know Twitter, the website, about this countdowntooauth.com has a sort of a countdown timer explaining exactly when they're going to switch off the old basic authentication method, and they've got sort of list of reasons why OAuth authentication is a good thing, why it's better. And one of the ones is that it improves their ability to scale and plan for heavy loads. So when we do a sale like that and our application is hitting their servers hard, they are able to see that application is the source of that traffic rather than just one particular account is misbehaving. So they can tell the difference between a popular application that they need to allow more capacity for and an account that has been taken over by spammers and is being abused. It's just so much more robust a system and I love OAuth dearly as a result of that. But if I were a user who is using a Twitter client, a desktop Twitter client, that relied on basic authentication I might be a little angry; especially if the developer of that app was not actively maintaining it anymore because in five weeks' time when they throw this switch, a whole bunch of old Twitter clients are just gonna stop working.

Patrick: And before we move off Twitter I just wanted to read from the post on the Twitter blog that mentioned the sponsored tweets adjustment.

Kevin: Oh yeah.

Patrick: They said — this was their quote, “We will not allow any third party to inject paid tweets into a timeline on any service that leverages the Twitter API. We are updating our terms of service to articulate clearly what we mean by this statement.”

So they don’t really come out and name anybody obviously, but it definitely sounds like, at least people are speculating, that it’s going to affect some of the paid Twitter advertising networks that are out there.

So they don't really come out and name anybody obviously, but it definitely sounds like, at least people are speculating, that it's going to affect some of the paid Twitter advertising networks that are out there.

Kevin: Hmm. That is a vague statement; paid tweets, I mean, you know, I’m being paid to sit at my desk at work and tweet about SitePoint things, occasionally. Is that a paid tweet?

凯文：嗯。 That is a vague statement; paid tweets, I mean, you know, I'm being paid to sit at my desk at work and tweet about SitePoint things, occasionally. Is that a paid tweet?

Patrick: What! What? I follow that account; this is an outrage!

Patrick: What! 什么？ I follow that account; this is an outrage!

Kevin: (laughs) Shocking.

Patrick: I don’t know. I think, well, they’re careful to say third party, third party injection. So, I mean I look at this and my guess, non-lawyerly guess, is that if I want to sell a tweet to somebody myself and put that in my stream that’s fine. But if I sign up with a network and then they inject it into my account because I’ve authorized them to do so through OAuth, etcetera, then that is where they’re putting — that’s what they’re putting a stop to. But that’s just my guess.

帕特里克：我不知道。 I think, well, they're careful to say third party, third party injection. So, I mean I look at this and my guess, non-lawyerly guess, is that if I want to sell a tweet to somebody myself and put that in my stream that's fine. But if I sign up with a network and then they inject it into my account because I've authorized them to do so through OAuth, etcetera, then that is where they're putting — that's what they're putting a stop to. But that's just my guess.

Stephan: We’re just one step away from them blocking Foursquare tweets, which would be awesome.

Stephan: We're just one step away from them blocking Foursquare tweets, which would be awesome.

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Brad: I thought I heard something about a filtered tweet feature coming soon to Twitter so you could do that.

Stephan: Thank you god (laughs).

Brad: That would be a nice feature.

Patrick: Filter HTML5, done.

Kevin: (laughs) In this week of Facebook privacy debacles I have to say I’m feeling pretty good about Twitter and trusting them to do the right thing, relatively speaking. Yeah, Twitter blocking the wrong tweets because they’re paid tweets is not really high on my list of worries for the Web at the moment.

Kevin: (laughs) In this week of Facebook privacy debacles I have to say I'm feeling pretty good about Twitter and trusting them to do the right thing, relatively speaking. Yeah, Twitter blocking the wrong tweets because they're paid tweets is not really high on my list of worries for the Web at the moment.

So let’s finish off today with our host spotlights, guys.

So let's finish off today with our host spotlights, guys.

Patrick what have you got for us?

Patrick: Well, if you haven’t heard, 99Designs won a Webby in the Best Web Service & Application of the Year category in the Webby People’s Voice Awards. And I hadn’t been following this really until they won; although I think I might have voted for them. But apparently they promised to do a special video if they did win, and that video is posted online on the 99Designs blog.

Patrick: Well, if you haven't heard, 99Designs won a Webby in the Best Web Service & Application of the Year category in the Webby People's Voice Awards. And I hadn't been following this really until they won; although I think I might have voted for them. But apparently they promised to do a special video if they did win, and that video is posted online on the 99Designs blog .

Kevin: Oh, they sure did promise. Uh, full disclosure: 99Designs and SitePoint are owned by the same parent company; just make sure that’s out there. But yeah, so all of the guys who work, guys and gals, who work at 99Designs work just like one floor beneath me, and we hang out a lot around the office. And they were going around going “We are totally gonna beat Dropbox and Tumbler, and when we do we’re gonna walk down the main street of Melbourne singing ‘We Are The Champions’.” And I think at the time I went yeah, right, you’re only saying that because you know you don’t have a shot of winning at all. And they won!

Kevin: Oh, they sure did promise. Uh, full disclosure: 99Designs and SitePoint are owned by the same parent company; just make sure that's out there. But yeah, so all of the guys who work, guys and gals, who work at 99Designs work just like one floor beneath me, and we hang out a lot around the office. And they were going around going “We are totally gonna beat Dropbox and Tumbler, and when we do we're gonna walk down the main street of Melbourne singing 'We Are The Champions'.” And I think at the time I went yeah, right, you're only saying that because you know you don't have a shot of winning at all. And they won!

Patrick: And they did it. They posted a video lip-synching to ‘We Are The Champions’ by Queen. It’s about two minutes long.

Patrick: And they did it. They posted a video lip-synching to 'We Are The Champions' by Queen. It's about two minutes long.

Kevin: What! Lip-synching!

凯文：什么！ Lip-synching!

Patrick: Well, I take it that Mark Harbottle doesn’t have the voice of Freddy Mercury, but I might be wrong but, yeah, so they sing along to the track and walk down the street and just a good time in all, so check it out.

Patrick: Well, I take it that Mark Harbottle doesn't have the voice of Freddy Mercury, but I might be wrong but, yeah, so they sing along to the track and walk down the street and just a good time in all, so check it out.

Kevin: Yeah. It’s a marvelous bunch of geeks celebrating and it is hilarious to watch, I highly recommend it. Just imagine them realizing they had won and then realizing they were going to have to do this, because that was a fun day around the office.

凯文：是的。 It's a marvelous bunch of geeks celebrating and it is hilarious to watch, I highly recommend it. Just imagine them realizing they had won and then realizing they were going to have to do this, because that was a fun day around the office.

Patrick: And then get paid to do it.

Kevin: Yeah, well, of course.

Stephan what have you got?

Stephan: Well, since we haven’t talked about HTML5 enough today.

Stephan: Well, since we haven't talked about HTML5 enough today.

Kevin: No!

凯文：不！

Stephan: I’ve got HTML5demos.com which is just a bunch of demos and examples of some of the different things you can do with HTML 5 and JavaScript; I’m gonna separate that out there right now. And it’s got some cool stuff and it tells you which browsers support the demo that he’s doing. And it’s pretty decent stuff. The one that really is scary is the geo location one, I mean it’s — I just did it from where I’m at, at my house, and it’s pretty darn close to where I live, so.

Stephan: I've got HTML5demos.com which is just a bunch of demos and examples of some of the different things you can do with HTML 5 and JavaScript; I'm gonna separate that out there right now. And it's got some cool stuff and it tells you which browsers support the demo that he's doing. And it's pretty decent stuff. The one that really is scary is the geo location one, I mean it's — I just did it from where I'm at, at my house, and it's pretty darn close to where I live, so.

Kevin: It says that that one works on Firefox and Mobile Safari. And why is the Chrome logo kind of faded out there, I don’t know why.

Kevin: It says that that one works on Firefox and Mobile Safari. And why is the Chrome logo kind of faded out there, I don't know why.

Stephan: I just used it; I just tried it on Chrome, it works, so I’m assuming —

Stephan: I just used it; I just tried it on Chrome, it works, so I'm assuming —

Kevin: Oh, it says nightly. Supposedly you have to be running a nightly build of Chrome for that to work. That’s weird.

Kevin: Oh, it says nightly. Supposedly you have to be running a nightly build of Chrome for that to work. That's weird.

Stephan: Yeah. So. It’s interesting though. And if you want to go out and play with like the Web SQL database storage stuff is pretty neat, so just go out there and play with it, it’s cool.

斯蒂芬：是的。所以。 It's interesting though. And if you want to go out and play with like the Web SQL database storage stuff is pretty neat, so just go out there and play with it, it's cool.

Kevin: I have to congratulate them on actually sticking pretty well to techniques and technologies that are in the actual HTML5 standard. I thought this would be a bunch of CSS3 animated using JavaScript sort of demos. But actually I think every single one of these ticks a box of demonstrating some part of the actual HTML5 spec. I mean whether you think drag and drop belongs in HTML or not is another question and something we talked about a lot a couple of weeks ago, but yeah, this actually is HTML5 demos; I’m really impressed.

Stephan: And the guy’s name is Remy Sharp just if you’re wondering, so.

Stephan: And the guy's name is Remy Sharp just if you're wondering, so.

Kevin: Brad?

Brad: Mine’s actually it’s a couple weeks old, but it’s cool enough I definitely want to make sure we mentioned it. Face.com, which is a facial recognition technology startup, recently launched a public API and developer, an open API and developer community, and basically what this allows you to do is kind of tap into their facial recognition technology into your own apps. And it’s actually completely free; there is rate limiting, so it says you can do up to 200 photos per hour. So if you have a serious web app they have premium licensing, but essentially you can upload a photo, they have demos on their site, and it’s really neat, you can upload a photo with 50 different people in it and it will recognize all the faces; it also detects gender, it detects if the people are wearing glasses, it detects if the people are smiling. It’s pretty wild. It will detect heads if they’re on a tilt; you can actually hook this into your Facebook and Twitter API’s, you know, to work with the user’s social graph. So it’s pretty wild, but definitely check out the demos because you can upload or drop a URL to a picture and kind of see it in action, and it’s pretty amazing how accurate it is.

Brad: Mine's actually it's a couple weeks old, but it's cool enough I definitely want to make sure we mentioned it. Face.com , which is a facial recognition technology startup, recently launched a public API and developer, an open API and developer community, and basically what this allows you to do is kind of tap into their facial recognition technology into your own apps. And it's actually completely free; there is rate limiting, so it says you can do up to 200 photos per hour. So if you have a serious web app they have premium licensing, but essentially you can upload a photo, they have demos on their site, and it's really neat, you can upload a photo with 50 different people in it and it will recognize all the faces; it also detects gender, it detects if the people are wearing glasses, it detects if the people are smiling. 蛮荒的 It will detect heads if they're on a tilt; you can actually hook this into your Facebook and Twitter API's, you know, to work with the user's social graph. So it's pretty wild, but definitely check out the demos because you can upload or drop a URL to a picture and kind of see it in action, and it's pretty amazing how accurate it is.

Kevin: I’m wondering if any web service would ever consider using this sort of thing as a login. Like, you know, smile at your laptop to log in. I guess it would have to be not a security critical application, but particularly on phones that would be really cool because I know one of the most painful things about surfing the Web on my phone is typing in passwords. And it would be, you know, if your phone has a front-facing camera for doing video calls, if you could just hold your camera up to your face and it goes oh yeah, that’s you, and logs you in, that would be really interesting. Maybe it would need like a sort of secondary — you also need a cookie to prove that you’ve logged into this site before or something like that, and it’s just sort of a re-login sort of feature. But that would be really exciting if this worked well enough. I know I have like face recognition in iPhoto on my computer, and I know that Picasa web service from Google also does face recognition to sort of group your photo library into people. And I don’t know what you guys have in terms of experience with that kind of thing, but my experience is it’s a little hit and miss, you know, you get a haircut and it’s suddenly very confused.

Kevin: I'm wondering if any web service would ever consider using this sort of thing as a login. Like, you know, smile at your laptop to log in. I guess it would have to be not a security critical application, but particularly on phones that would be really cool because I know one of the most painful things about surfing the Web on my phone is typing in passwords. And it would be, you know, if your phone has a front-facing camera for doing video calls, if you could just hold your camera up to your face and it goes oh yeah, that's you, and logs you in, that would be really interesting. Maybe it would need like a sort of secondary — you also need a cookie to prove that you've logged into this site before or something like that, and it's just sort of a re-login sort of feature. But that would be really exciting if this worked well enough. I know I have like face recognition in iPhoto on my computer, and I know that Picasa web service from Google also does face recognition to sort of group your photo library into people. And I don't know what you guys have in terms of experience with that kind of thing, but my experience is it's a little hit and miss, you know, you get a haircut and it's suddenly very confused.

Patrick: I want to know how accurate the gender recognition is. Wish I could demo that right now.

Brad: It’s not perfect, in fact, —

Brad: It's not perfect, in fact, —

Kevin: Patrick did it say you were a girl?

Patrick: I actually was trying to make that happen, but I can’t figure out a way — I can’t get the tools and demos to get going here, so.

Patrick: I actually was trying to make that happen, but I can't figure out a way — I can't get the tools and demos to get going here, so.

Kevin: (laughs) That’s our challenge. Any listener try and fool it into thinking you are of the opposite sex. Tell us what it takes. You know, can you pose and make it switch your sex or does it require a funny hat? Let us know.

Kevin: (laughs) That's our challenge. Any listener try and fool it into thinking you are of the opposite sex. Tell us what it takes. You know, can you pose and make it switch your sex or does it require a funny hat? 让我们知道

My spotlight for this week is a Video JS. We’ve talked about HTML5 video players before, and this is the latest one of the bunch. And the nice thing about it is that it is free and open source. Up until this point the nicest HTML5 video player that I knew, and the name doesn’t come to mind at the moment, but it was commercial so if you wanted to use it on your site you had to pay them a license fee. It was very nice, and these things provide slick sort of video playback controls that sit over the video. But the idea here is that they provide a video player that can play H.264 video in supported browsers without any Flash needed at all. And this is particularly important when targeting devices like the iPhone and the iPad which don’t have Flash video playback support.

My spotlight for this week is a Video JS . We've talked about HTML5 video players before, and this is the latest one of the bunch. And the nice thing about it is that it is free and open source. Up until this point the nicest HTML5 video player that I knew, and the name doesn't come to mind at the moment, but it was commercial so if you wanted to use it on your site you had to pay them a license fee. It was very nice, and these things provide slick sort of video playback controls that sit over the video. But the idea here is that they provide a video player that can play H.264 video in supported browsers without any Flash needed at all. And this is particularly important when targeting devices like the iPhone and the iPad which don't have Flash video playback support.

So Video JS is the latest one of the bunch, and for a free solution, man, it is gorgeous. It looks really good; they’ve got a nice demo front and center on the site at videojs.com. And there are no images used in the interface, it’s all JavaScript and CSS and it is skin-able so you can change the colors to match your site’s branding, and it goes to full window. The one big thing that is missing from these HTML 5 video players at the moment is full screen support, and I think that’s something that needs to be added to the <video> tag before the browsers can add it themselves. But, you know, they’ll maximize to the full browser window anyway, and the big differentiating feature that I find a lot of these free solutions miss is a fallback. So if you view this in Internet Explorer or Opera it’ll fall back to a flash player called FlowPlayer which is probably the most popular free Flash-based video player out there.

So Video JS is the latest one of the bunch, and for a free solution, man, it is gorgeous. It looks really good; they've got a nice demo front and center on the site at videojs.com . And there are no images used in the interface, it's all JavaScript and CSS and it is skin-able so you can change the colors to match your site's branding, and it goes to full window. The one big thing that is missing from these HTML 5 video players at the moment is full screen support, and I think that's something that needs to be added to the <video> tag before the browsers can add it themselves. But, you know, they'll maximize to the full browser window anyway, and the big differentiating feature that I find a lot of these free solutions miss is a fallback. So if you view this in Internet Explorer or Opera it'll fall back to a flash player called FlowPlayer which is probably the most popular free Flash-based video player out there.

So there’s no down side to this as far as I can see. It’s free, it does everything you would hope for; the only pain here is that you need to encode your video in multiple formats. So right now it says it supports H.264, Ogg Theora, and the new WebM video format from Google as well. So if you encode your video in all three of those formats and point it at all three then you’ll get the maximum coverage. Presumably if you leave one or two of those out, maybe you only encode to H.264, I’m betting it will then fall back to FlowPlayer in more browsers, but at least you’ll still get full browser support. So a really nice library there if you need to host some video on your own site; give it a try.

So there's no down side to this as far as I can see. It's free, it does everything you would hope for; the only pain here is that you need to encode your video in multiple formats. So right now it says it supports H.264, Ogg Theora, and the new WebM video format from Google as well. So if you encode your video in all three of those formats and point it at all three then you'll get the maximum coverage. Presumably if you leave one or two of those out, maybe you only encode to H.264, I'm betting it will then fall back to FlowPlayer in more browsers, but at least you'll still get full browser support. So a really nice library there if you need to host some video on your own site; give it a try.

And that brings us to the end of the show. Let’s sign off guys. Who are our hosts today?

And that brings us to the end of the show. Let's sign off guys. Who are our hosts today?

Brad: I’m Brad Williams from Webdev Studios, and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba.

Brad: I'm Brad Williams from Webdev Studios, and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba.

Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network. Find me on Twitter @ifroggy.

Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network. Find me on Twitter @ifroggy.

Stephan: I’m Stephan Seagraves, you can find me on Twitter @sseagraves, got a mouthful there, and badice.com is the blog.

Stephan: I'm Stephan Seagraves, you can find me on Twitter @sseagraves, got a mouthful there, and badice.com is the blog.

Kevin: And I am @sentience on Twitter. You can follow SitePoint on Twitter at @sitepointdotcom.

Visit the SitePoint podcast at sitepoint.com/podcast to listen to all our old shows and subscribe to receive new shows automatically.

You can leave comments on this show and we will endeavor to answer them on future episodes. The SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I’m Kevin Yank.

You can leave comments on this show and we will endeavor to answer them on future episodes. The SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I'm Kevin Yank.

Thanks for listening. Bye bye.

谢谢收听。再见。

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Mike Mella的主题音乐。

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

谢谢收听！欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-63-there-are-two-webs/

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SitePoint播客＃63：有两个网站

Episode 63 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@iFroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Brad Williams (@williamsba), and Kevin Yank (@sentience). Sit...
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