Episode 51 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Brad Williams (@williamsba), and Kevin Yank (@sentience).
SitePoint Podcast的 第51集现已发布！ 本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。
下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #51: Real Web Designers Get It(MP3, 46.2MB)SitePoint Podcast＃51：真正的Web设计人员获得它(MP3，46.2MB)
剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)
Here are the topics covered in this episode:
以下是本集中介绍的主题：
- Corporates continue to cling to IE 6 企业继续坚持使用IE 6
- Chrome’s new automatic translation feature Chrome浏览器的新自动翻译功能
- Opera 10.5 features amazing speed and powerful developer features Opera 10.5具有惊人的速度和强大的开发人员功能
- Listener mail: Simon Madine on Chrome extensions 侦听器邮件：Chrome扩展程序上的Simon Madine
- SitePoint author Elliot Jay Stocks says designers should be able to code their own designs SitePoint的作者Elliot Jay Stocks说设计师应该能够编写自己的设计
Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/51.
浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/51中显示的参考链接的完整列表。
主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)
Patrick: 28 Days of Diversity
帕特里克： 多样性28天
Stephan: Uniform – Sexy forms with jQuery
Stephan： 制服– jQuery的性感形式
Brad: “Mad Libs” Style Form Increases Conversion 25-40%
布拉德： “疯子”样式表将转化率提高了25-40％
Kevin: Petition to make “Hella” the prefix for 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
凯文： 请愿以“ Hella”为前缀1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)
Kevin: March 5th, 2010. New browser updates, whether web designers should be code-savvy, and prying IE6 from their cold, dead, hands. I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #51: Real Web Designers Get It.
凯文(Kevin)： 2010年3月5日。新的浏览器更新，包括Web设计人员是否应该精通代码，以及从僵硬的手中撬开IE6。 我是Kevin Yank，这是SitePoint播客＃51：真正的Web设计师。
With us today Brad Williams from WebDevStudios, Stephan Seagraves from Houston Texas, and Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy network.
今天与我们一起来自WebDevStudios的Brad Williams，来自德克萨斯州休斯顿的Stephan Seagraves和iFroggy网络的Patrick O'Keefe。
We’ve got the whole band together again, guys.
伙计们，我们整个乐队又聚在一起了。
Brad: What’s up?
布拉德：怎么了？
Patrick: I missed you guys. I love you all so much.
帕特里克：我想念你们。 我太爱你们所有人了。
Kevin: Coming up later on the show today we will look at the issue of whether web designers should be able to code their designs or not.
凯文：今天晚些时候在展会上，我们将探讨网页设计师是否应该能够编码其设计的问题。
But first up, why you can’t pry IE 6 out of their cold, dead hands. This is a story by Esther Schindler over at IT Expert Voice, and she has done a little research into these Corporates—you know, Corporates with a capital ‘C’—that we’re always talking about. The last holdouts who have yet to move off of Internet Explorer 6. As of a few days ago, now, Google no longer officially supports Internet Explorer 6 in some of its applications, and this…
但是首先， 为什么您不能从冷死的手中撬开IE 6 。 这是IT专家之声的Esther Schindler的故事，她对我们一直在谈论的这些公司(您知道，资本为C的公司)进行了一些研究。 尚未离开Internet Explorer 6的最后一个支持者。直到几天前，现在，Google不再在其某些应用程序中正式支持Internet Explorer 6。
Brad: Yaaay!
布拉德：耶！
Kevin: Yeah, I knew you’d be happy with that, Brad.
凯文：是的，我知道你会为此感到高兴的，布拉德。
Patrick: Boo.
帕特里克：嘘。
Kevin: As we’ve celebrated before on this show, this could be the beginning of the end of Internet Explorer 6, and in fact, if you head over to ie6funeral.com on Thursday, March 4th, you can see that some intrepid people in Denver got together to commemorate the occasion and have a funeral service for Internet Explorer 6. But it seems, reading this story, that there’s still some holdouts, Brad.
凯文：正如我们之前在这个节目中所庆祝的那样，这可能是Internet Explorer 6终结的开始，实际上，如果您在3月4日(星期四)访问ie6funeral.com ，您会发现有些勇敢的人丹佛市(Denver)的人们在一起纪念这个场合，并为Internet Explorer 6举行了葬礼。但是，读完这个故事，看来Brad仍然存在一些障碍。
Brad: Yeah, and I think we’ve talked about it a few times on this show. And the major holdout is these corporations that have web apps that they need to run that were built for IE 6 exclusively, and that’s one of the biggest issues. It’s an interesting article, and I think one of my favorite quotes from the article is that most developers whom they asked about this issue had a violent, emotional response which kind of hit close to home, I think that would be my response too.
布拉德：是的，我想我们已经在这个节目中谈论了几次。 而主要的障碍是这些公司拥有专门为IE 6构建的，需要运行的Web应用程序，这是最大的问题之一。 这是一篇有趣的文章，我认为该文章中我最喜欢的一句话是，大多数他们问这个问题的开发人员都有一种暴力的，情绪化的React，这种React在家里很常见，我想也是我的React。
Kevin: That rings true. Yeah, we’ve had to edit out one or two of those from you from this show, Brad.
凯文：那是真的。 是的，我们不得不从您的节目Brad中删除一两个。
Brad: Maybe a couple bleeps here and there.
布拉德：也许到处都有几声惨叫。
Kevin: Yeah, this story covers four different reasons that the reporter found for corporations sticking with Internet Explorer 6. Number one was they don’t upgrade anything. It’s nothing personal, it’s not that we’re dragging our heels on our browser, they don’t upgrade anything. She cited the fact that a lot of corporations operate on a three to five year upgrade cycle in their IT department. So, you know, every three to five years they sit down and they go alright, what’s the computer, what’s the operating system that we will be buying for the next three to five years. Five years is a really long time.
凯文：是的，这个故事涵盖了记者发现公司坚持使用Internet Explorer 6的四个不同原因。第一是他们没有升级任何东西。 这不是什么私人的东西，不是我们在浏览器上拖了脚跟，他们什么都没有升级。 她列举了一个事实，即许多公司的IT部门需要三到五年的升级周期。 因此，您知道，他们每隔三到五年坐下来，就可以了，接下来三到五年我们要购买的计算机是什么，操作系统是什么。 五年是很长的时间。
Brad: Yeah, it is. I think this one; I can definitely see this one. I worked at a small company for a while, a small internet-based company, and I basically was the IT department for about 30 people. And I’m a web developer, so that tells you how much of their budget they had to focus on that. And when it came time to upgrade, you know, it really was I would be the one kind of pushing saying you know we need to upgrade, and they really never saw the reasoning behind it. I guess the question I have with this one is I have a hard time believing that if they don’t upgrade anything that they’re out there traversing the Internet and they’re not running into problems running on IE 6. I got to believe that almost any website they go to, the majority of websites are going to have some kind of IE 6 hang up at this point.
布拉德：是的。 我认为这个； 我绝对可以看到这个。 我在一家小型公司(一家基于互联网的小型公司)工作了一段时间，基本上我是大约30人的IT部门。 我是一名网络开发人员，因此可以告诉您他们必须专注于多少预算。 而且，到了进行升级的时候，您知道的确是我将要说的是您知道我们需要升级，而他们确实从未看到过升级的原因。 我想我对这个问题有一个疑问，就是我很难相信，如果他们不升级正在穿越Internet的任何内容，并且不会遇到在IE 6上运行的问题，我必须相信他们访问的几乎所有网站，此时大多数网站都将挂断某种IE 6。
Patrick: Well, the only thing I have to add is: Hi, Mrs. Schindler. We talk on email and Twitter, and I’ve talked to her a number of times, and I was…
帕特里克：嗯，我唯一要补充的是：嗨，辛德勒夫人。 我们通过电子邮件和Twitter聊天，我已经与她交谈了很多次，当时我...
Kevin: Really?
凯文：真的吗？
Patrick: …surprised to see her name at the bottom of this. But also, great, I didn’t put it in there, just so you know, I work with great folks.
帕特里克(Patrick)： …很惊讶地在底部看到了她的名字。 而且，太棒了，我没有把它放在那里，只是要知道，我与好人一起工作。
Kevin: No, no, this is my story.
凯文：不，不，这是我的故事。
Patrick: No, but I think this is an interesting site because this Expert Voice site is created through partnership with Dell and Federated Media, so Dell is at least partially behind this. The writer isn’t really affiliated with it. So, it’s interesting to consider from that angle too. And what Dell has at stake, I guess. And why Dell would want people to upgrade on top of it. Dell would sort of be in the same camp of developers because people who upgrade buy new computers. So, you know, I mean that’s all a part of this puzzle too. And I think it’s just going to be time. I think you can only stay on that old box for so long, and eventually they’re either going to disappear or they’re going to buy a new box. So, it’s just a matter of time and, I don’t know, I get kind of tired of talking about— of hearing people complain about IE 6 and stuff. Oh, yeah, I mean it’s been complained about so, so much that it’s almost like a cliché at this point to complain about IE 6. But that’s just me.
帕特里克：否，但是我认为这是一个有趣的网站，因为该专家语音网站是通过与戴尔和联合媒体合作创建的，因此戴尔至少部分落后于此。 作家与它并没有真正的联系。 因此，从这个角度考虑也很有趣。 我猜戴尔将面临什么风险。 以及为什么戴尔希望人们在其之上进行升级。 戴尔将处于同一个开发人员阵营，因为升级的人会购买新计算机。 所以，你知道，我的意思是，这也是这个难题的一部分。 我认为这将是时候了。 我认为您只能在那个旧盒子上呆很久，最终他们要么消失不见，要么他们打算购买一个新盒子。 因此，这只是时间问题，而且我不知道，我有点厌倦谈论-听到人们抱怨IE 6及其它东西。 哦，是的，我的意思是，有人抱怨这么多，以至于现在抱怨IE 6简直是陈词滥调。但这就是我。
Brad: I mean, you know, you say time, and I think that it’s a good point. But time is definitely running short, and now that Google has kind of stepped up as one of the big players and taken that first step, even if it’s a small step, they definitely took a step in the right direction. So, you’re right, it’s definitely a matter of time. The question is, are we talking months, are we talking years, I hope we’re not talking multiple years.
布拉德：我的意思是，你知道，你说时间，我认为这是个好主意。 但是时间肯定很短，现在Google已经成为大型公司之一并且迈出了第一步，即使这只是一小步，他们也确实朝着正确的方向迈出了一步。 因此，您是对的，这绝对是时间问题。 问题是，我们在谈论几个月，还是在谈论几年，我希望我们不在谈论多年。
Patrick: Just sit back, have a beverage, and you know, chill out. Not Brad, but other people. Brad’s already Mr. Cool.
帕特里克：只要坐下来，喝一杯，然后就放松一下。 不是布拉德，而是其他人。 布拉德已经是酷先生了。
Kevin: The next reason covered in this story is the one we mentioned, and the one that always comes up: one critical IE 6 only application holds them back. The company’s built a custom app and they cut corners back in the days where IE 6 was the only browser, and there was no reason to worry about supporting anything else going forward, and so they’re stuck there. And that’s— It’s the hardest problem to solve, but at the same time in some ways I’m most optimistic about it being solved because once we move off IE 6 the browser landscape is moving so quickly again now that it seems unlikely that companies building custom apps today are going to make that same mistake.
凯文：这个故事涉及的下一个原因是我们提到的原因，并且总是这样：一个仅适用于IE 6的关键应用程序阻止了它们。 该公司构建了一个自定义应用程序，并且在IE 6 是唯一的浏览器的年代里他们偷工减料，而且没有理由担心会支持其他任何东西，因此它们停留在那儿。 那是-这是最难解决的问题，但同时在某些方面，我对它的解决感到最乐观，因为一旦我们离开IE 6，浏览器的格局就会再次如此Swift地移动，以至于公司似乎不太可能建立今天的自定义应用程序会犯同样的错误。
Stephan: You’d think that they’d want to update the internal application anyway because it sounds like it was probably built in early 2000.
史蒂芬：您可能以为他们还是想更新内部应用程序，因为它听起来好像是2000年初构建的。
Kevin: Well, the story says it’s difficult to justify because when you pitch it to your bosses who hold the purse strings of the company you’re saying, “Look, I want to update this application to work in newer browsers.” And they say, “Well, what’s it going to do different?” And you go, “Nothing, it’ll just work in more browsers,” and no one’s going to pay for that.
凯文：好吧，这个故事说来很难辩解，因为当您向拥有公司钱包的老板提出建议时，您会说：“看，我想更新此应用程序以使其在较新的浏览器中运行。” 他们说：“嗯，这有什么不同？” 然后您会说：“没什么，它只能在更多浏览器中使用”，而且没人愿意为此付费。
Patrick: So what’s the benefit to the company in that case is the real question. And I mean there isn’t one. I mean this isn’t that surprising. And she said it’s unsurprising, so there it is. But, I was looking at some … it was surveillance software, a while back, and I opened the application to view surveillance from a remote location, and it looked like it was built in 1995. I mean it was this Java app, and it’s nothing about Java, I’m not saying Java, but just kind of the gray Java huge buttons, and it was like this is so old. But the thing about it is I was thinking I guess they don’t have any reason to innovate, they don’t have any reason to update. Who’s their competition? They already have their clients, and apparently in this space they’re eating off that. So, you know, it’s like the same thing as medical care in my area, I live in a small area; there’s not that many doctors, they’re not competing against each other. If you don’t have competition, you have less reason to innovate. I mean that plays a hand as well.
帕特里克(Patrick)：那么，在那种情况下对公司有什么好处呢？ 我的意思是没有一个。 我的意思是这并不奇怪。 她说这不足为奇，所以就在那里。 但是，我当时在看……这是监视软件，前一段时间，我打开了该应用程序以从远程位置查看监视，它看起来像是1995年建成的。我的意思是它是此Java应用程序，关于Java没什么，我不是说Java，而只是灰色的Java巨大按钮，而且好像已经很老了。 但是关于它的事情是我在想我认为他们没有任何创新的理由，他们没有任何更新的理由。 他们的竞争对手是谁？ 他们已经有了他们的客户，显然在这个领域，他们正在吃光了。 因此，就像住在我所在地区的医疗服务一样，我住在一个很小的地方。 没有那么多的医生，他们没有互相竞争。 如果您没有竞争，那么您进行创新的理由就会更少。 我的意思是也发挥作用。
Kevin: Are you saying your doctor uses Internet Explorer 6?
凯文：您是说您的医生使用Internet Explorer 6吗？
Brad: I would get a new doctor.
布拉德：我会请一位新医生。
Patrick: I’m saying that when there’s less competition— I don’t judge doctors based on their browser usage.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我是说在竞争较少的情况下，我不会根据医生的浏览器使用情况来判断他们。
Brad: I judge everybody based on their browser usage.
布拉德：我根据每个人的浏览器使用情况来判断他们。
Patrick: I think there’d be a lot of dead web developers if we went that route. Well, aren’t you Mr. Judgmental! Excuse me, I’ll get off your Twitter. No, I’m just kidding.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我认为如果走那条路，将会有很多死掉的Web开发人员。 好吧，你不是审判先生吗！ 不好意思，我下车给你。 不，我只是在开玩笑。
No, but what I’m saying is that obviously competition drives innovation, and in some of these spaces you’re dealing with companies that all in all probably don’t care much about the web browser, so that’s why there’s a lack of necessity to move to it.
不，但是我要说的是，竞争显然在推动创新，在这些领域中，您与公司打交道的公司可能根本不关心网络浏览器，因此这就是为什么缺乏必要性的原因移动到它。
Brad: Just one last point. One kind of low-cost solution to this would be just to use something like VMWare, or even set up a PC in the corner of the office that’s just dedicated to running IE 6 and allow the different users that need to get into that system remote access. Yeah, that way they could login when they need to, they can use the application.
布拉德：最后一点。 一种低成本的解决方案是仅使用VMWare之类的东西，或者甚至在办公室的角落设置一台专用于运行IE 6的PC，并允许需要远程访问该系统的不同用户访问。 是的，这样他们可以在需要时登录，他们可以使用该应用程序。
Brad: It’s a low-cost way of getting around it. So if your sticking point is saying we have this mission critical application we have to use, well, you know, there’s certainly ways you can still use it, but you don’t have to be stuck on IE 6 on your day-to-day computer.
布拉德：这是解决问题的一种低成本方法。 因此，如果您的症结所在是我们必须使用这个关键任务应用程序，那么，您肯定仍然可以使用它，但是您不必每天都停留在IE 6上。日计算机。
Kevin: The next point is “Why do software maintenance? It isn’t broken.” is a common response she saw. And part of reading this story comes out of the fact that a lot of Corporates outsource their IT infrastructure, and to the point where the people who they go to for advice on their IT are also outsourced. And so there’s no one there to tell them that their systems are out of date, that there is even a reason to upgrade. And when someone like a web developer tells them, “Hey, I want to build you a modern web application, but your IT infrastructure’s too out of date,” they go and talk to their IT consultants and they say, nah, there’s no reason. And you end up hearing things like, “Your customers are also on IE 6, and so you should keep your business on that lowest common denominator so that you’re getting the same experience as them.” It’s like these companies, these outsourced IT providers, are trying to make excuses and give companies reasons to stay behind on this stuff. It seems weird because they could make a load off of charging these companies for an upgrade, right?
凯文：下一点是“为什么要进行软件维护？ 它没有坏。 是她看到的常见回应。 阅读此故事的部分原因是，许多公司将其IT基础架构外包，并且到了将要寻求IT咨询的人员也外包的地步。 因此，没有人告诉他们他们的系统已经过时，甚至没有理由进行升级。 当像Web开发人员这样的人告诉他们：“嘿，我想为您构建一个现代化的Web应用程序，但是您的IT基础架构已经过时了，”他们去与IT顾问交谈，他们说，不，没有理由。 您最终会听到类似的信息，“您的客户也使用IE 6，因此您应该将业务保持在最低的公分母上，以便获得与他们相同的体验。” 就像这些公司，这些外包的IT提供商一样，他们试图找借口，并为公司提供在这些方面落后的理由。 看起来很奇怪，因为他们可以减轻这些公司的升级费用，对吗？
Brad: Yeah, you’d think they’d want to push it. I mean I guess it’s tough to tell someone by spending money now you’re going to save more money in the long run, but essentially getting off of IE 6 that’s probably what’s going to happen, because eventually with the IE 6 security something’s going to happen whether it’s a computer gets infected or a virus hits your network through an IE 6 browser. Whatever it may be, something’s going to happen and it’s probably going to cost you more in the long run anyway to clean up that mess and then upgrade rather than just upgrade now and completely avoid that mess in the future. But, again, it’s always hard to argue that point with people that are holding those purse strings.
布拉德：是的，您会认为他们想推动它。 我的意思是我想现在很难通过花钱告诉某人，从长远来看，您将可以节省更多的钱，但是从本质上来说，摆脱IE 6可能会发生这种情况，因为最终随着IE 6安全性的发展，无论是计算机被感染还是病毒通过IE 6浏览器感染您的网络。 无论是什么情况，都会发生某种事情，从长远来看，清理和混乱升级可能会花费更多的钱，而不是立即升级，而在将来完全避免混乱。 但是，再一次，与持有这些钱包的人很难争辩这一点。
Patrick: I guess the unanswerable question is, on a company by company basis, if a company has put off upgrading for X amount of time, and there’s been versions released, multiple versions from IE 6 now, the money that they may have saved paying someone to upgrade their entire network to go directly to IE 8 or do a full refresh, have they actually lost money by doing that, or have they actually saved money by waiting to upgrade as long as they could? And I mean that’s unanswerable. For some it’s less, for some they lose money, for some they gain money. But, you know, from a business perspective only I don’t know if I can fault the IT consultants completely, but obviously they have to find a way to relate it to the business that shows them, okay, X amount of dollars, you do this, and it’s tough to do that.
帕特里克：我想这个无法回答的问题是，如果一家公司推迟了X倍的升级时间，并且已经发布了多个版本，现在是IE 6的多个版本，那么他们节省下来的钱可以用来支付有人升级了整个网络以直接转到IE 8或进行了完全刷新，他们是否真的因此而蒙受了损失，还是通过等待尽可能长的升级而实际上省了钱？ 我的意思是无法回答。 对于某些人来说，这是更少的，对于某些人来说他们是亏本的，对于某些人他们是赚钱的。 但是，您知道，仅从业务角度来看，我不知道我是否可以完全责怪IT顾问，但是显然他们必须找到一种方法将其与表明他们的业务联系起来，好吧，X美元，您做到这一点，很难做到这一点。
Kevin: The last point in the story is IE 6 as user control. And I find this fffff… frustrating and fascinating at the same time. The point here is more and more as companies like Google and Facebook and so on, cut support for Internet Explorer 6, keeping your corporate employees on Internet Explorer 6 becomes a way of insuring they don’t go to these non work-related sites and waste time on your dollar. This is the logic that we’re seeing, that these companies go, “Oh, you can’t use Facebook on IE 6? How interesting. Let’s lock that in for another few years, shall we?”
凯文：故事的最后一点是作为用户控制的IE 6。 我发现这件事……同时令人沮丧和着迷。 这一点越来越重要，因为像Google和Facebook等公司削减了对Internet Explorer 6的支持，让公司员工使用Internet Explorer 6成为一种确保他们不访问这些与工作无关的网站的方式，并且浪费时间在您的美元上。 这就是我们看到的逻辑，这些公司会说：“哦，您不能在IE 6上使用Facebook吗？ 真有趣 。 让我们再锁定几年，对吗？”
There’s a great interview on a show called Spark on CBC radio, and they have a podcast that I’ll be sure to link to, where they talk about this shift in culture with companies that have started to put up firewalls for their employees that prevent them from accessing “inappropriate” sites during work times. And some of the have very graciously started switching off the firewall at lunch hour so that on your lunch break you can go and browse Facebook as much as you want. But then as soon as the lunch break is over it clamps back down again. And on the surface this sounds like a nice compromise, a good gesture for a company that might otherwise not allow any non work-related internet access at your desk. But what they’re seeing is that employees who used to go outside and get some fresh air and reinvigorate themselves for the rest of the day at their lunch hour, instead stay pinned at their desk surfing the Web madly for the one hour that they have access to it before they have to go back to work. It decreases productivity and the health of their employees. It’s counterintuitive, but it’s going to cost them money.
在CBC电台的一个名为Spark的节目上有一个很棒的采访 ，他们一定会播客，我一定会与他们联系，他们在这里谈论文化的转变，这些公司已经开始为员工设置防火墙以防止他们在工作时间内无法访问“不合适的”网站。 而且其中一些已经非常有礼貌地开始在午餐时间关闭防火墙，以便在午餐时间可以随意浏览Facebook。 但是午休时间一结束，它就会再次压低。 从表面上看，这听起来像是一个不错的折衷方案，对一家公司来说是一个好手势，否则该公司可能不允许您的办公桌上访问任何与工作无关的互联网。 但是，他们看到的是，那些曾经在外面的午休时间在一天的其余时间里走到外面呼吸新鲜空气并重新焕发活力的员工，却呆在办公桌旁疯狂地呆了一个小时，在他们必须重新工作之前可以访问它。 它降低了生产力和员工的健康。 这是违反直觉的，但这会花费他们钱。
Patrick: Now if we could only find a way to shut down the albatross that is solitaire.
帕特里克(Patrick)：现在，如果我们只能找到一种方法来关闭纸牌的信天翁。
Kevin: I thought that was dealt with. Switch everyone to Mac, right?
凯文：我认为已经解决了。 将所有人切换到Mac，对吗？
Brad: Yeah, Macs don’t run games.
布拉德：是的，Mac不运行游戏。
Patrick: Mac doesn’t believe in playing cards.
帕特里克： Mac不相信扑克牌。
Kevin: Well, that’s Internet Explorer 6 and why we can’t pry it out of their cold, dead hands. It seems like there is reason for optimism on several of those fronts. If anything, you won’t be able to buy a computer that runs Internet Explorer 6 in a few years.
凯文：好吧，那是Internet Explorer 6，为什么我们不能从他们冷酷无情的手中撬开它。 在这些方面中的一些方面似乎都有理由感到乐观。 如果有的话，几年后您将无法购买运行Internet Explorer 6的计算机。
Stephan: Well, what about the fact that pretty soon you’re going to have to run Vista, right? Or Windows 7 now, I’m sorry. That pretty much knocks IE 6 out, right? Once these companies start upgrading to 7 you’re not going to have to worry about it.
斯蒂芬：好吧，很快就要运行Vista了，对吗？ 还是Windows 7，对不起。 差不多把IE 6淘汰了，对吧？ 这些公司开始升级到7后，您将不必担心。
Kevin: Yeah, but for some companies what it will take literally is for these computers to catch fire and explode.
凯文：是的，但是对于某些公司而言，这些计算机实际上将着火并爆炸。
Patrick: Way to give everyone ideas.
帕特里克(Patrick)：向所有人提出想法的方法。
All: (laughing)
全部：(笑)
Kevin: Just sayin’! If your computer happened to catch fire…
凯文：只是说！ 如果你的电脑发生着火...
Patrick: SitePoint podcast triggers series of break-ins at corporations in Australia, UK!
帕特里克： SitePoint播客触发了英国澳大利亚公司的一系列入侵活动！
Stephan: There’s a bunch of IT guys just— They’re planning and plotting right now.
史蒂芬：只是有很多IT人才-他们正在计划和规划。
Kevin: “Interesting.” Next week on the SitePoint Podcast, which part of your computer is most flammable?
凯文： “有趣。” 下周在SitePoint Podcast上，计算机的哪部分最易燃？
So while we’re talking about browsers, let’s talk about some of the other browsers out there because there’s a whole bunch of news. We’ve got a new Beta of Chrome, Google Chrome, that has I think I might call it Google’s first original browser feature.
因此，当我们谈论浏览器时，让我们谈论其他一些浏览器，因为有很多新闻。 我们有一个新的Chrome浏览器Beta，即Google Chrome浏览器，我认为它可以称为Google的第一个原始浏览器功能。
And I’m sure someone’s going to write in and tell me that Opera has had this for years, but maybe not. The latest Chrome Beta has automatic website translation. So if you tell it you want to read your websites in English and it detects that a website that you load up is in German, it will automatically send it through Google’s translation engine and show you the English version. This is in the Beta version of Chrome, right?
而且我敢肯定有人会写信告诉我Opera已经有很多年了，但也许没有。 最新的Chrome Beta具有自动网站翻译功能 。 因此，如果您告诉您要用英语阅读网站，并且它检测到您加载的网站是德语，它将自动通过Google的翻译引擎将其发送给您，并显示英文版本。 这是Chrome Beta版，对吗？
Brad: Yeah, the Beta version just came out for Windows I believe. It’s really neat though because since it auto detects, so if you hit a Chinese website, it auto detects that the language is Chinese, and then pops up and asks if you want to translate. Pick your language, you can save it, and then going forward you can just click translate and it will remember the translation language you chose. So it’s really quick, it detects it, you click translate and it’s done, and then it translates the website as you navigate through it.
布拉德：是的，我相信Beta版本刚刚发布了。 但这确实很整洁，因为它会自动检测，因此如果您访问中文网站，它会自动检测到该语言是中文，然后弹出并询问您是否要翻译。 选择您的语言，可以保存它，然后继续，只需单击“翻译”，它就会记住您选择的翻译语言。 因此，它真的很快，它可以检测到它，单击“翻译”就完成了，然后在您浏览网站时对网站进行翻译。
Kevin: So what’s the benefit here? I mean have you guys found yourselves really wanting to read non-English websites a lot and then been frustrated by your inability to do so automatically?
凯文：那么这有什么好处？ 我的意思是，你们是否发现自己真的想大量阅读非英语网站，然后因无法自动阅读而感到沮丧？
Stephan: I’d say biggest issue for me it’s travel websites for other countries, small airlines that I can’t— they don’t have English versions. That would come in handy but other than that, I don’t use it really.
斯蒂芬：对我来说，最大的问题是其他国家的旅行网站，我无法提供的小型航空公司-他们没有英文版本。 那会派上用场，但除此之外，我并没有真正使用它。
Brad: I mean on occasion for me I’ve come across sites where it will be in a different language and then I have to dig up the translate URL and paste in the link. But what this might open up is that Google could actually… if this proves to work really well over a period of time or whatever, Google might actually, who knows, they might open up to where we start if you’re running Chrome and they detect that you’re using the translate they might start bringing back more foreign websites in your search results if they deem them relevant. Possibly, who knows. I could see them trying something like that.
布拉德：我的意思是有时候我遇到过一些使用不同语言的网站，然后我不得不找出翻译URL并粘贴到链接中。 但是，这可能会打开Google的大门，如果……在一段时间内证明它确实运行良好，那么Google可能会(实际上)知道，如果您运行的是Chrome，他们可能会向我们开放的位置。检测到您正在使用翻译，如果他们认为它们相关，他们可能会开始在搜索结果中带回更多外国网站。 可能，谁知道。 我可以看到他们尝试了类似的方法。
Yeah, it’s kind of neat. It’s definitely a feature I haven’t seen. But, again, like you said, Kevin, it might exist in some other browser.
是的，这很整洁。 这绝对是我从未见过的功能。 但是，再次，正如您所说的，凯文，它可能存在于其他浏览器中。
Kevin: Well, I’m sure there’s a Firefox extension for doing this kind of thing. There’s a Firefox extension for everything. We hear stories of like the size of the non-English Internet is eclipsing the size of the English Internet. And so perhaps just the fact that we use the Internet as English speakers, as English readers, we tend to have blinkers on to the rest of the Internet. We limit our access to the information and knowledge and cultural styles that are out there on the Internet for us to explore. If Chrome is leading the way and all browsers end up implementing this we could suddenly find the Web becoming a place where you don’t worry about the language of a site that you’re putting a hyperlink to. You just transparently surf from site to site, and some of them are automatically translated, and some of them just happen to be English. This could really knock down some big walls that they exist on the Internet today, if only by our tendency to only link to and take an interest in stuff that’s written in English.
凯文：好吧，我敢肯定有做这种事情的Firefox扩展。 有适用于所有内容的Firefox扩展。 我们听到的故事就像非英语互联网的规模正在使英语互联网的规模黯然失色。 因此，也许我们将互联网用作英语使用者和英语读者这一事实，我们往往会对互联网的其余部分保持警惕。 我们限制访问Internet上可供我们探索的信息，知识和文化样式。 如果Chrome处于领先地位，并且所有浏览器最终都实现了这一目标，那么我们可能会突然发现Web成为您不必担心要放置超链接的网站语言的地方。 您只是在各个站点之间透明地进行浏览，其中一些会自动翻译，而其中一些恰好是英语。 如果仅通过我们倾向于链接并使用英语写的东西的兴趣，这确实可以摧毁当今互联网上存在的一些障碍。
Patrick: That’s a cool visionary type statement. I think that’s a good thing. I think that would be a great thing. I think he question, though, is of course always with translation tools, the quality of those tools, right? So for that to happen, like Google Translate, I’ve used it over a period of time. I used to use Babblefish back in the day, and it’s pretty good, but you know, there are points where it obviously comes back broken in English, right? And I think that’s a hindrance, and I don’t know what the answer is to that; if there’s more investment needed into translation, if Google’s now going to corner the market on translation services that could be another business for them. But obviously the quality of translation is a big factor in this.
帕特里克：这是一个很酷的有远见的类型声明。 我认为那是一件好事。 我认为那将是一件好事。 我认为他想当然地会一直使用翻译工具，这些工具的质量对吗？ 因此，为了实现这一点，例如Google翻译，我已经使用了一段时间。 我曾经在一天中使用Babblefish，它非常好，但是您知道，有些地方显然用英语破解了，对吧？ 我认为这是一个障碍，我不知道答案是什么。 如果需要更多的翻译投资，如果Google现在要在翻译服务上垄断市场，这可能对他们来说是另一项业务。 但是显然翻译质量是其中一个重要因素。
Kevin: I’m trying to read up here on how Google actually detects the language of a web page. I mean obviously those who know their HTML in real detail know that you can tag the language of a page or even the language of a paragraph in your HTML code if you want to go to that extent. But I’d say most of us are guilty of just not specifying a language and assuming the browser’s going to be in English because you’re writing an English website, right? So, to some extent I expect that Google Chrome is doing some automatic detection based on the words it sees. And the Mashable story that we link to for this says they’ve had some, they’ve noticed some sites with not a lot of text on them are not correctly detected as being in another language. But you can always force its hand and tell it, “Hey, can you translate this for me?” which is cool.
凯文：我想在这里阅读有关Google如何实际检测网页语言的信息。 我的意思是，显然，那些真正了解HTML的人知道，如果您想要达到这个程度，则可以在HTML代码中标记页面的语言，甚至标记段落的语言。 但是我要说的是，我们大多数人都只是没有指定一种语言，而是假设浏览器将是英文的，这是有罪的，因为您正在编写英文网站，对吗？ 因此，在某种程度上，我希望Google Chrome浏览器会根据它看到的文字进行某种自动检测。 我们为此链接到的Mashable故事说他们有一些，他们注意到有些站点上没有很多文本的站点没有被正确检测为另一种语言。 但是您总是可以用力地告诉它，“嘿，您能帮我翻译一下吗？” 太酷了
Our other bit of browser news is Opera 10.5 is out for Windows. And the Mac has a Beta version that’s very nice to check out as well, so it can’t be far away. Wow, Opera is really moving fast! It was February 11th that they announced the Beta of Opera 10.5 for Windows. And so like three weeks later they’ve got the final release out, that’s incredible.
浏览器新闻的另一点是Opera 10.5已针对Windows发布 。 Mac的Beta版也非常适合签出，因此距离也不远。 哇，Opera真的很快！ 2月11日，他们宣布了Windows版Opera 10.5 Beta 。 大约三周后，他们发布了最终版本，这真是令人难以置信。
Brad: The browser’s supposed to move pretty fast, too, from what I’ve read.
布拉德：浏览器的运行速度也应该比我读过的快。
Kevin: Yeah, reading the release notes it looks like Opera 10, you know, we had designer Jon Hicks on to discuss the user interface work that was going into that release, and it seemed like Opera 10 was very much focused on the end user experience. For the end user Opera 10 was a completely new version, thus the major new version number. 10.5 feels like it’s something for us as web developers and designers because the look of the browser is a little tweaked, but it’s pretty much the same interface. But under the hood, geez, there’s almost nothing that hasn’t changed. They’ve completely replaced the JavaScript engine with a new engine called Carakan, which according to benchmarks is now the fastest currently released JavaScript engine among all current browsers out there. So, Opera takes the lead in JavaScript performance.
凯文：是的，阅读发行说明看起来像Opera 10，您知道， 我们让设计师Jon Hicks讨论了该发行版本中的用户界面工作，而且Opera 10似乎非常专注于最终用户经验。 对于最终用户，Opera 10是一个全新的版本，因此是主要的新版本号。 10.5感觉对我们作为Web开发人员和设计师来说是一件好事，因为浏览器的外观有所调整，但界面几乎相同。 但是，在本质上，geez，几乎没有任何变化。 他们已经用名为Carakan的新引擎完全替换了JavaScript引擎，根据基准测试，该引擎现在是目前所有当前浏览器中最快发布JavaScript引擎。 因此，Opera在JavaScript性能方面处于领先地位。
They’ve got a new graphics engine called Vega which brings hardware accelerated graphics to SVG, canvas and indeed all the graphics rendering in the browser. And this is something that Internet Explorer 9 has been giving a preview of, you know, that’s the next big thing that’s coming. So, Opera is ahead of Internet Explorer and many of the other browsers on this stuff. And then there’s improved CSS support, we’ve got rounded corners, multiple background images, box shadows, border images, CSS transforms and animated transitions, and offline storage, and finally, support for the <video> tag using the Ogg Theora video codec. So, it’s all in there. There is nothing in this that isn’t in this release that is in another browser that I could want.
他们有一个名为Vega的新图形引擎，它将硬件加速的图形引入SVG，画布以及浏览器中的所有图形渲染。 这是Internet Explorer 9一直提供的预览，这是即将到来的下一件大事。 因此，Opera在Internet Explorer和许多其他浏览器方面领先于此。 然后改进了CSS支持，我们有了圆角，多个背景图像，框阴影，边框图像，CSS变换和动画过渡以及离线存储，最后，使用Ogg Theora视频编解码器支持<video>标签。 所以，一切都在那里。 在这个版本中，没有什么比我想要的其他浏览器更好。
Patrick: So are you using Opera, then?
帕特里克：那你在用Opera吗？
Kevin: Well, it makes me want to use Opera as my development browser and pretend that I could use all these features today and assume that all of my audience is going to see them. As a user there’s something that’s keeping me off Opera, and that’s the 1Password plug-in that’s on all the other browsers. But that’s a— it seems like faint criticism. As a web standards nut, Opera has got my vote. This is the leading browser for me now.
凯文：恩，这让我想使用Opera作为我的开发浏览器，并假装我今天可以使用所有这些功能，并假设我所有的观众都将看到它们。 作为用户，有一些使我无法使用Opera的东西，而这是所有其他浏览器上的1Password插件。 但这似乎是一种微弱的批评。 作为网络标准的坚果，Opera获得了我的投票。 对于我来说，这是领先的浏览器。
Patrick: The JavaScript thing sounds like it’s a pretty big deal with them. You know if Safari did that type of thing Steve Jobs would be on stage saying “We did it again!”, and here’s the numbers compared between each browser, so I don’t know, maybe they need to do a better job of publicizing that. I don’t know, maybe it has been big news.
帕特里克： JavaScript听起来似乎对他们来说意义重大。 您知道Safari是否做了这样的事情，史蒂夫·乔布斯(Steve Jobs)会在台上说“我们又做了一次！”，这是每个浏览器之间的比较数字，所以我不知道，也许他们需要做得更好来宣传那。 我不知道，也许这是个大新闻。
Kevin: Yeah, well, when Safari put out its last big JavaScript performance enhancement, Steve Jobs was, or the head of their desktop software division, I think when they were talking about Snow Leopard, from memory, they were showing off some graphs of browser performance and how they had doubled the speed of Safari. But it seems like they’ve been leapfrogged at this point.
凯文：是的，当Safari推出JavaScript的最后一项重大性能增强功能时，乔布斯(Steve Jobs)还是其桌面软件部门的负责人，我认为当他们谈论Snow Leopard时，他们从内存中展示了一些浏览器性能以及它们如何使Safari速度提高一倍。 但是似乎他们在这一点上已经跨越了。
Brad: I think speed is a really big topic among reasons why you switch. I mean it’s one of the reasons why I now use Chrome for all my day-to-day browsing just was because of speed. And if Opera’s coming out, and if benchmarks come out and shown that it is quite a bit faster than Chrome, that could be a big reason for people to start seriously considering switching to Opera.
布拉德：我认为速度是您转换的原因中一个非常重要的话题。 我的意思是这是为什么我现在每天都使用Chrome浏览器的原因之一就是速度。 而且如果Opera出炉了，并且基准测试出炉并且证明它比Chrome快很多，那可能就是人们开始认真考虑改用Opera的主要原因。
Kevin: Well, Brad, put your money where your mouth is. If Opera is now the fastest browser, are you going to switch for us?
凯文：好吧，布拉德，把钱放在嘴里。 如果Opera现在是最快的浏览器，您是否要为我们切换？
Brad: I’m definitely going to download it and run it. When 10 came out I played around with it and ran it a little bit. So I’ll install it this weekend and play around with it, so next step is I’ll remember to report back my findings.
布拉德：我一定会下载并运行它。 当10出来时，我玩了一下，然后跑了一点。 因此，我将在本周末安装它并试用它，因此下一步是我将记得报告我的发现。
Kevin: Alright, well, we’ll look forward to that. We’ve got some listener mail from Simon Madine who wrote in about podcast 47. And one of the things he touched on was our coverage of Opera. He says, “During the discussion of this technology and other browsers, there was reference to bookmarking extensions for Firefox and unsure mentions of Mozilla talk of a bookmarking API.” This is when we were talking about the new bookmark synching extension that had now become a core feature of Chrome. He says that what we missed out on is the fact that Opera has had bookmark synching, history, and notes, syncing of all that stuff, since version 9.5, since the public Beta of that browser was released. He says, “Although Opera isn’t the most popular browser it is certainly not trivial, and the hosts of a web development podcast should be aware of its features.”
凯文：好吧，我们期待着。 我们收到了西蒙·麦丁(Simon Madine)的一些听众邮件，他们写了关于播客47的文章。他所涉及的事情之一就是对Opera的报道。 他说：“在讨论该技术和其他浏览器时，提到了Firefox的书签扩展，并不确定提到Mozilla谈论书签API。” 这是当我们谈论新的书签同步扩展程序时，它现在已成为Chrome的核心功能。 他说，我们错过了一个事实，那就是Opera自9.5版(自该浏览器的公开Beta版发布)以来就具有书签同步，历史记录和便笺，可以同步所有这些内容。 他说：“尽管Opera不是最受欢迎的浏览器，但它肯定也不是一件小事，Web开发播客的主持人应该意识到它的功能。”
Well, Simon, guilty. I hope our coverage of Opera in this show was a little more up to scratch.
好吧，西蒙，内gui。 我希望我们在本次演出中对Opera的报道更多一点。
Yeah, it’s tough. The browser world is moving so fast, like I said earlier, that it’s hard to stay on top of what’s new and what’s current in every single browser. So, yeah, definitely, Opera has full support for syncing all of that stuff. And so that’s why I say this translate tool, please do let me know if Opera already has it. I’m sure there are extensions for other browsers that do it. But this feels like the first thing that Google Chrome has done that the other browser haven’t, and that they may be taking the lead from— following Chrome’s lead on.
是的，很难。 就像我之前说的那样，浏览器世界发展得如此之快，以至于很难掌握每个浏览器中的最新消息和最新消息。 因此，是的，Opera完全支持同步所有这些内容。 所以这就是为什么我说这个翻译工具，请让我知道Opera是否已经有了它。 我确定会有其他浏览器的扩展名。 但这似乎是谷歌浏览器做了的第一件事，而其他浏览器却没有，而且他们可能是继Chrome的领导者之后的领导者。
Simon Madine goes on to say he takes exception to my description of bookmark synching as a nichey feature. He says, “Non-IE browsers are most commonly used by technically-minded people, many of whom will have a desktop and a laptop, or use a computer at home as well as the office. Bookmark synching can be useful to any of these people.”
西蒙·麦丁(Simon Madine)继续说，他对我将书签同步作为一种利基功能的描述表示例外。 他说：“非IE浏览器是技术娴熟的人们最常使用的浏览器，其中许多人将拥有台式机和笔记本电脑，或者在家中和办公室使用计算机。 书签同步对这些人中的任何一个都有用。”
I don’t know. Stephan, what’s your feeling? Is Chrome targeted at techie users?
我不知道。 史蒂芬，你感觉如何？ Chrome是否针对技术人员用户？
Stephan: I don’t know, maybe. Kind of, I guess, I mean Brad loves it, so.
史蒂芬：我不知道，也许。 我想我是说Brad喜欢它，所以。
Brad: What are you trying to say, Stephan?
布拉德：你想说什么，斯蒂芬？
All: (laughing)
全部：(笑)
Kevin: And Simon also talks about where I question the fact that the most popular extension for Chrome was also the newest feature for Chrome when it comes to bookmark synching. He says, “Surely an extension community that creates the kind of features they want their browser of choice to have is a healthy community. If the inclusion of the feature into the browser was expedited due to its popularity as a plug-in, that shows that the Chrome developers believe in the plug-in community enough to listen. If it wasn’t related it shows that they are heading in the same direction.”
凯文：西蒙(Simon)也谈到我在哪里质疑以下事实：当涉及书签同步时，Chrome最受欢迎的扩展也是Chrome的最新功能。 他说：“无疑，一个扩展社区能够创建一个他们希望他们选择的浏览器拥有的功能，这是一个健康的社区。 如果由于该功能作为插件的流行而加快了将该功能包含在浏览器中的速度，则表明Chrome开发人员相信插件社区足够听。 如果没有关系，则表明他们正朝着同一方向前进。”
I see what you mean there. I think it would be a bit disappointing as an extension developer to see wildly popular success of your extension, and your reward for that is Chrome taking that feature out of your hands and building it into the browser in the next release. I would be disappointed by that. But I do also see what you mean that if the user community of a browser is voting with their downloads for a feature, Google should definitely look at implementing those features in the core of the browser. I don’t know. What do you guys think?
我明白你的意思了。 对于扩展程序开发人员来说，看到您的扩展程序大获成功，我认为这会有些令人失望，而您为此获得的回报是Chrome不再使用该功能并将其构建到下一个版本的浏览器中。 我对此感到失望。 但我也确实明白您的意思是，如果浏览器的用户社区对其功能的下载表示投票，那么Google绝对应该考虑在浏览器的核心中实现这些功能。 我不知道。 你们有什么感想？
Brad: I think any time you create extensions for a browser or plug-ins for a website, or whatever it may be, there’s always a chance that what you make could end up of the core software that you develop it for. And if it does I think it just kind of justifies and says you were right, you know, this is a great feature that everybody wants, so why add in that extra step to install it. But there always is that risk. I think as developers I mean you just always got to kind of keep that in mind that if it’s a very popular feature and not something that’s niche, it could very well end up as a core feature of anything.
布拉德：我想，只要您为浏览器或网站插件或任何形式的扩展创建插件，总有可能使您开发的软件最终成为您开发该软件的核心软件。 如果确实如此，我认为这是有道理的，并说您是对的，您知道，这是每个人都想要的一项很棒的功能，那么为什么还要增加额外的步骤来安装它。 但是总会有这种风险。 我认为，作为开发人员，我的意思是您总是要记住，如果这是一个非常受欢迎的功能而不是利基市场，那么它很可能最终会成为任何事物的核心功能。
Patrick: I reached out to Simon on Twitter when he posted a comment about the show, and I appreciate you taking me up on it and actually elaborating on the feedback which is very helpful. And I think you raised a lot of good points, and good points that would be great in our comment section of the Podcast. And I think that between us four we have a very little bit of knowledge, but we have a piece and we share that on the show, but at the same time I think we all, as users of technology and computers, we lean toward what we have good experience with and what we use ourselves. So, we may not know that Opera has had this feature since this point, or that Safari’s coming out with this next week.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我在推特(Simon)上发表了关于该节目的评论时与西蒙(Simon)取得了联系，非常感谢您关注我的工作，并且对反馈进行了详尽的阐述，这非常有帮助。 我认为您提出了很多要点，而这些要点在我们播客的评论部分中将是很棒的。 我认为我们四个人之间只有一点点知识，但是我们有一部分，我们在展会上分享了，但是与此同时，我认为作为技术和计算机的用户，我们所有人都倾向于我们在使用我们自己方面有很好的经验。 因此，我们可能不知道Opera从那时起就具有此功能，或者Safari将于下周面世。
But I think the SitePoint community is part of what makes the Podcast so great. So I would say that if you notice that we omit something or that we forget an aspect that you personally feel should have been included or should be addressed, then please use our comment section and point it out, and add that viewpoint—add your viewpoint—in a productive way. And you’re a part of the podcast, part of the community, and maybe we’ll even read it on the show. But part of the power of the community is all of our knowledge together; so thank you for sharing that.
但是我认为SitePoint社区是使播客如此出色的一部分。 因此，我想说的是，如果您注意到我们忽略了某些内容，或者忘记了您个人认为应该包含或应解决的一个方面，请使用我们的评论部分并指出，并添加该观点-添加您的观点-以生产方式。 您是播客的一部分，是社区的一部分，也许我们甚至会在节目中阅读它。 但是社区的一部分力量是我们所有的知识在一起。 非常感谢您的分享。
Kevin: Thank you, Simon. And speaking of talking about things we don’t know a lot about…
凯文：谢谢西蒙。 说到谈论我们不太了解的事情...
This brings us to the story of web designers and whether they should be able to code the designs they come up with. Friend of the show, Elliot Jay Stocks, and SitePoint author, tweeted this week, “Honestly I’m shocked that in 2010 I’m still coming across ‘web designers’ who can’t code their own designs. No excuse.”
这使我们了解了Web设计师的故事，以及他们是否应该能够对自己提出的设计进行编码。 展览的朋友，艾略特·杰伊·斯托克斯(Elliot Jay Stocks)和SitePoint的作者本周在推特上说： “老实说，我很震惊，2010年我仍然遇到无法编写自己设计的'网页设计师'。 别找借口。”
This created a bit of a storm of controversy, and CSSquirrel, another friend of the show, has a great sort of summary of all the opinions that were put forward in response to this. We’ll link to that post in the show notes. But, Elliott J. Stocks came back with quite a long and detailed post explaining his position here. But before we get into that, guys, I’m interested in your thoughts. Obviously none of us here consider ourselves web designers as our primary function, but what do you think? When you work with a web designer do you expect them to have an understanding of the code that goes into implementing what it is they’re designing in Photoshop?
这引起了一些争议，并且节目的另一个朋友CSSquirrel对针对此问题提出的所有意见进行了很好的总结 。 我们将在展示笔记中链接到该帖子。 但是，Elliott J. Stocks回来了很长很详细的帖子，解释了他在这里的位置。 但是在开始讨论之前，伙计们，我对您的想法感兴趣。 显然，我们这里没有人将自己的网页设计师视为我们的主要职能，但是您认为呢？ 当您与Web设计师一起工作时，您是否希望他们了解用于实现他们在Photoshop中进行设计的代码？
Brad: I do. As far as I do have a company that builds websites, and we actually have a lot of clients that show up on our doorstep. They already have a designer they work with who’s already made a mock-up of what they want; they just don’t know how to build it. And that’s where they search and find us or find another company that can take that mock-up and convert it into a website by whatever means. It’s tough to say, I guess it’s hard to say that all designers should know how to do that. I think if a designer isn’t actively trying to learn how to do that then I would kind of question how into design they actually are. Just from my perspective I want to know everything about building websites that I can. And if there’s new things I need to learn then I want to go out there and learn them so that I know. I would think from a designer’s standpoint if they don’t know how to take their design and put it on a, you know, build a website around it, they should kind of yearn to want to know how to do that. I would think so, but that’s just me.
布拉德：我知道。 据我所知，有一家网站建设公司，实际上，有很多客户出现在我们家门口。 他们已经有一位与他们一起工作过的设计师，他们已经对自己想要的东西进行了模拟。 他们只是不知道如何构建它。 他们在那里搜寻并找到我们，或者找到另一家可以使用该模型并将其通过任何方式转换为网站的公司。 It's tough to say, I guess it's hard to say that all designers should know how to do that. I think if a designer isn't actively trying to learn how to do that then I would kind of question how into design they actually are. Just from my perspective I want to know everything about building websites that I can. And if there's new things I need to learn then I want to go out there and learn them so that I know. I would think from a designer's standpoint if they don't know how to take their design and put it on a, you know, build a website around it, they should kind of yearn to want to know how to do that. I would think so, but that's just me.
Patrick: I think it depends on the project. I think that obviously we communicate these things beforehand. If we expect someone to do the entire development project, to design something and code it, then that’s usually communicated beforehand. I just wonder if maybe we’re getting— And I’m least of all designer of all us here, but I wonder if we’re getting too bogged down in semantics or terms. So, if you have a design company and you have one person who’s an awesome coder, coding sustainer, he’s just amazing. And then you have one person who is a visual genius design-wise in Photoshop coming up with designs and mock-ups and whatever, is that person not a designer or a web designer? Do you have to code to be the, “web designer?” I mean where are we at with this? I still think that that person who has the design vision may not know how to code XHMTL, whatever, HTML 5 standard compliant code. But I don’t think he’s any less of a talented designer.
Patrick: I think it depends on the project. I think that obviously we communicate these things beforehand. If we expect someone to do the entire development project, to design something and code it, then that's usually communicated beforehand. I just wonder if maybe we're getting— And I'm least of all designer of all us here, but I wonder if we're getting too bogged down in semantics or terms. So, if you have a design company and you have one person who's an awesome coder, coding sustainer, he's just amazing. And then you have one person who is a visual genius design-wise in Photoshop coming up with designs and mock-ups and whatever, is that person not a designer or a web designer? Do you have to code to be the, “web designer?” I mean where are we at with this? I still think that that person who has the design vision may not know how to code XHMTL, whatever, HTML 5 standard compliant code. But I don't think he's any less of a talented designer.
Brad: But if you’re a web designer, don’t you think you should know how to design for the Web? It’s like I would take that web word off and just say I’m a designer. If I don’t know how to code my design into a web page I’m not a web designer, I’m a designer.
Brad: But if you're a web designer, don't you think you should know how to design for the Web? It's like I would take that web word off and just say I'm a designer. If I don't know how to code my design into a web page I'm not a web designer, I'm a designer.
Patrick: What’s design for the Web though? Is design for the Web a concept of an idea of what is intuitive of people using a web browser, or is it simply, you know, letters and numbers in a text document. I think that there is something to be said for actual layout and the typography and those things that go into maybe creating a design, but not necessarily being the one who perfects the code that displays that design.
Patrick: What's design for the Web though? Is design for the Web a concept of an idea of what is intuitive of people using a web browser, or is it simply, you know, letters and numbers in a text document. I think that there is something to be said for actual layout and the typography and those things that go into maybe creating a design, but not necessarily being the one who perfects the code that displays that design.
Kevin: I’ve recently been working on a project to do a new site design for the theatre company that I perform with in my spare time. And this designer he is very much a print designer who will do a web design if you ask him to. But he doesn’t have a strong understanding of the constraints that are unique to the browser space, you know, the fact that pages tend to be fixed width but stretchy vertically is kind of something that isn’t in his visual language. And so the types of designs that he will tend to come up with he’ll get a poster, for example, he’ll get the page size, and he’ll design within that box. Whereas with the Web you really need to be clear about things like where your design will stretch when the content is bigger or smaller, and what happens with different types of content. If you’ve got a large image or a small image that needs to fit in this content, how are those displayed on different pages and how does that impact the rest of the layout? I sat down with him and tried to give him a sort of crash course in the constraints that he needs to be aware of as he develops a visual treatment for the wireframes that I had produced for the site, and I found it really challenging to put that into words.
Kevin: I've recently been working on a project to do a new site design for the theatre company that I perform with in my spare time. And this designer he is very much a print designer who will do a web design if you ask him to. But he doesn't have a strong understanding of the constraints that are unique to the browser space, you know, the fact that pages tend to be fixed width but stretchy vertically is kind of something that isn't in his visual language. And so the types of designs that he will tend to come up with he'll get a poster, for example, he'll get the page size, and he'll design within that box. Whereas with the Web you really need to be clear about things like where your design will stretch when the content is bigger or smaller, and what happens with different types of content. If you've got a large image or a small image that needs to fit in this content, how are those displayed on different pages and how does that impact the rest of the layout? I sat down with him and tried to give him a sort of crash course in the constraints that he needs to be aware of as he develops a visual treatment for the wireframes that I had produced for the site, and I found it really challenging to put that into words.
Brad, when these clients come to you with a finished design that their designer has done, have you ever looked at it and go, “Well, that looks pretty on the page, it looks pretty in Photoshop, but I can’t turn that into a working website?”
Brad, when these clients come to you with a finished design that their designer has done, have you ever looked at it and go, “Well, that looks pretty on the page, it looks pretty in Photoshop, but I can't turn that into a working website?”
Brad: Yeah, I mean absolutely. I’ve had mock-ups where every font is some kind of custom font that isn’t web safe, and they’re like, alright well, we can certainly use graphics for these, but you really don’t want to use graphics if you don’t have to. You want to keep your site very lightweight as much as possible. Yeah, certainly font is one of the biggest things because people think they can use any type of font they want when it’s not really the case. It’s a great point, you’re right, there is kind of some things that you know, that the page can’t stretch or you know there’s web safe fonts, and web safe colors, and things like that that they really need to keep in mind when they’re making these designs. I would probably argue that most web designers understand that. Like you said, the guy you were working with was a print designer, so obviously someone from that background may not be as familiar with that.
Brad: Yeah, I mean absolutely. I've had mock-ups where every font is some kind of custom font that isn't web safe, and they're like, alright well, we can certainly use graphics for these, but you really don't want to use graphics if you don't have to. You want to keep your site very lightweight as much as possible. Yeah, certainly font is one of the biggest things because people think they can use any type of font they want when it's not really the case. It's a great point, you're right, there is kind of some things that you know, that the page can't stretch or you know there's web safe fonts, and web safe colors, and things like that that they really need to keep in mind when they're making these designs. I would probably argue that most web designers understand that. Like you said, the guy you were working with was a print designer, so obviously someone from that background may not be as familiar with that.
Stephan: Okay, if we flipped it around and we said if you call yourself a developer and someone asked you to develop a website for them, and you come back with a database diagram and some pseudo-code, what are they going to do with that?
Stephan: Okay, if we flipped it around and we said if you call yourself a developer and someone asked you to develop a website for them, and you come back with a database diagram and some pseudo-code, what are they going to do with that?
Kevin: It’s done! (claps hands)
Kevin: It's done! (claps hands)
Patrick: I don’t think that’s an adequate comparison, I have to say, because …
Patrick: I don't think that's an adequate comparison, I have to say, because …
Stephan: Oh, it’s completely accurate.
Stephan: Oh, it's completely accurate.
Patrick: …there is such a thing as a layout designer. I would suggest that you can have the understanding that Kevin talks about, as far as the limitations of the Web, while also not being someone who can hand-code to the highest standard. I would suggest that you can have those design understandings without the extreme coding knowledge. But that’s just me.
Patrick: …there is such a thing as a layout designer. I would suggest that you can have the understanding that Kevin talks about, as far as the limitations of the Web, while also not being someone who can hand-code to the highest standard. I would suggest that you can have those design understandings without the extreme coding knowledge. 但这就是我。
Stephan: But you just laid out the terms. You just said it’s a— you didn’t use “web designer,” you used a different word, “layout designer.”
Stephan: But you just laid out the terms. You just said it's a— you didn't use “web designer,” you used a different word, “layout designer.”
Patrick: Sure, but that’s the question I asked earlier, are we getting too semantic. I mean is this a case of simply “you’re doing it wrong?” I mean is there no room— I guess the question is do we really want to get so technical that someone who is designing for the Web has a visual understanding of what the Web entails, but necessarily might not be the greatest coder, and as such, has someone else do it. If they just enjoy designing do they also need to enjoy coding?
Patrick: Sure, but that's the question I asked earlier, are we getting too semantic. I mean is this a case of simply “you're doing it wrong?” I mean is there no room— I guess the question is do we really want to get so technical that someone who is designing for the Web has a visual understanding of what the Web entails, but necessarily might not be the greatest coder, and as such, has someone else do it. If they just enjoy designing do they also need to enjoy coding?
Stephan: I’ll say this, if I see someone who can design really well and they do a really great job on layout and maybe they don’t know how to code, I’ll pay them for the layout, or for just what they’ve designed with the look. Because I like their work and I can get someone else to code it. So it doesn’t stop me from hiring them. I’ll throw that out there because I appreciate good art, I appreciate good work.
Stephan: I'll say this, if I see someone who can design really well and they do a really great job on layout and maybe they don't know how to code, I'll pay them for the layout, or for just what they've designed with the look. Because I like their work and I can get someone else to code it. So it doesn't stop me from hiring them. I'll throw that out there because I appreciate good art, I appreciate good work.
Brad: I would love to hear from anyone in the community that is maybe close to graduating college in the graphic design field, or especially web design. I know I worked with quite a few designers that were more print designers as well a few years ago, and they were kind of dabbling more and more into web, and I kept telling them you should really start looking into CSS, you should start learning CSS, and they absolutely did not want to learn CSS, they felt like that was too code-y, I guess if that is a good term to describe that. And then a year or two later they now realize, okay, I’m not behind the curve in the job market, and everybody I’m up against as a graphic designer understands CSS or at least understands a little bit about it, whereas this person had no clue. I think that’s more the trend in a lot of— I’m sure a lot of colleges now are pushing that. If you’re in graphic design you’re also going to start dabbling in CSS and learning CSS at the college level.
Brad: I would love to hear from anyone in the community that is maybe close to graduating college in the graphic design field, or especially web design. I know I worked with quite a few designers that were more print designers as well a few years ago, and they were kind of dabbling more and more into web, and I kept telling them you should really start looking into CSS, you should start learning CSS, and they absolutely did not want to learn CSS, they felt like that was too code-y, I guess if that is a good term to describe that. And then a year or two later they now realize, okay, I'm not behind the curve in the job market, and everybody I'm up against as a graphic designer understands CSS or at least understands a little bit about it, whereas this person had no clue. I think that's more the trend in a lot of— I'm sure a lot of colleges now are pushing that. If you're in graphic design you're also going to start dabbling in CSS and learning CSS at the college level.
Patrick: Just to be clear though, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t learn how to code or that it’s not a good idea. I feel opposite, but I’m just saying that I don’t know if we need to section people off in such a way based on whether or not they can code, that’s all.
Patrick: Just to be clear though, I'm not saying that you shouldn't learn how to code or that it's not a good idea. I feel opposite, but I'm just saying that I don't know if we need to section people off in such a way based on whether or not they can code, that's all.
Kevin: Yeah, it seems reading Elliot Jay Stocks’s larger blog post it seems he admits that you can design for the web without understanding the code, but the point he seems to be trying to make is if you consider that your career, if you consider that your metier, why would you limit yourself by not learning that? That’s like … it’s like deciding you’re going to be a writer in this day and age but not learning how to touch type. You could do that but you’re limiting yourself, and how can you call yourself a professional?
Kevin: Yeah, it seems reading Elliot Jay Stocks's larger blog post it seems he admits that you can design for the web without understanding the code, but the point he seems to be trying to make is if you consider that your career, if you consider that your metier, why would you limit yourself by not learning that? That's like … it's like deciding you're going to be a writer in this day and age but not learning how to touch type. You could do that but you're limiting yourself, and how can you call yourself a professional?
He says that he went through his own phase of designing without understanding the code of the Web. And when he finally did take the time to learn it he said it was incredibly freeing. And this is a quote from his blog post: he says, “The unknown was holding me back. I didn’t appreciate how things worked and it scared me away from producing my best work. But with a little bit of technical knowledge—and I’d really like to emphasize the ‘little’ here, I’m not much of a coder beyond HTML, CSS, and the odd bit of PHP for WordPress theming—I got the medium in which we work.” So that’s interesting to me that understanding the code for a web designer can be like understanding how paper is made for a print designer. You understand your medium intrinsically, and it frees you to play with it more.
He says that he went through his own phase of designing without understanding the code of the Web. And when he finally did take the time to learn it he said it was incredibly freeing. And this is a quote from his blog post: he says, “The unknown was holding me back. I didn't appreciate how things worked and it scared me away from producing my best work. But with a little bit of technical knowledge—and I'd really like to emphasize the 'little' here, I'm not much of a coder beyond HTML, CSS, and the odd bit of PHP for WordPress theming—I got the medium in which we work.” So that's interesting to me that understanding the code for a web designer can be like understanding how paper is made for a print designer. You understand your medium intrinsically, and it frees you to play with it more.
Patrick: I think that’s a good point. I think his point about it being a career is a good one as well. I think at the end of the day if you are a designer who wants to stay in this field, knowing how to code HTML and CSS will certainly make you more attractive both to clients and to agencies.
Patrick: I think that's a good point. I think his point about it being a career is a good one as well. I think at the end of the day if you are a designer who wants to stay in this field, knowing how to code HTML and CSS will certainly make you more attractive both to clients and to agencies.
Kevin: I’m really interested in if there is a designer— If you are listening to this and you are a web designer, or you design for the web and you don’t consider yourself proficient in CSS layout, for example, I’m really interested in hearing if that frees you. Because understanding the medium, while it can free you to play with it, it can also— If you think of the Web in terms of the code, it might limit you and prevent you from thinking of, or trying some visual things that may not have been tried before.
Kevin: I'm really interested in if there is a designer— If you are listening to this and you are a web designer, or you design for the web and you don't consider yourself proficient in CSS layout, for example, I'm really interested in hearing if that frees you. Because understanding the medium, while it can free you to play with it, it can also— If you think of the Web in terms of the code, it might limit you and prevent you from thinking of, or trying some visual things that may not have been tried before.
Patrick: After what we’ve said, that person is afraid to come forward.
Patrick: After what we've said, that person is afraid to come forward.
Kevin: (laughing)
Kevin: (laughing)
Stephan: And I think this discussion for me is difficult because I’m not at all visually savvy. So when I think of design I’m kind of like, well, put some tables on the page and put the form out there. So for me I can’t judge either way, you know, I can’t say well they must be a crappy designer because they can’t write HTML. I just— I can’t do it.
Stephan: And I think this discussion for me is difficult because I'm not at all visually savvy. So when I think of design I'm kind of like, well, put some tables on the page and put the form out there. So for me I can't judge either way, you know, I can't say well they must be a crappy designer because they can't write HTML. I just— I can't do it.
Kevin: And I think that sums it up where we started. We fully admit we’ve just spent 20 minutes talking about stuff of which we are not experts. So please do write in with your thoughts because I think this is a fascinating conversation, and I’d love to hear from some practitioners in the design field.
Kevin: And I think that sums it up where we started. We fully admit we've just spent 20 minutes talking about stuff of which we are not experts. So please do write in with your thoughts because I think this is a fascinating conversation, and I'd love to hear from some practitioners in the design field.
So, let’s get to our host’s spotlight guys. Patrick, what have you got for us this week?
So, let's get to our host's spotlight guys. Patrick, what have you got for us this week?
Patrick: My host spotlight is 28daysofdiversity.com. It was put together by a friend of mine, Wayne Sutton, and in his words he says, “As someone in the technology/web social space, I often travel and attend various events in the industry and notice a huge lack of diversity. And when it comes to getting attention from mainstream media/tech blogs, it’s almost impossible.” So he says he started 28 Days of Diversity with the goal of featuring someone new every day of the month of February for just being awesome in their own right. And the full title is 28 Days of Diversity: People of Color Impacting the Social Web. It started on his blog at socialwayne.com, but it quickly morphed into its own site, 28daysofdiversity.com with all 28 people who were featured highlighted, their Twitter streams, and various other information as well. So it was a cool program and Wayne just completed it, so I wanted to highlight that.
Patrick: My host spotlight is 28daysofdiversity.com . It was put together by a friend of mine, Wayne Sutton, and in his words he says, “As someone in the technology/web social space, I often travel and attend various events in the industry and notice a huge lack of diversity. And when it comes to getting attention from mainstream media/tech blogs, it's almost impossible.” So he says he started 28 Days of Diversity with the goal of featuring someone new every day of the month of February for just being awesome in their own right. And the full title is 28 Days of Diversity: People of Color Impacting the Social Web. It started on his blog at socialwayne.com , but it quickly morphed into its own site, 28daysofdiversity.com with all 28 people who were featured highlighted, their Twitter streams, and various other information as well. So it was a cool program and Wayne just completed it, so I wanted to highlight that.
Kevin: Yeah, that sounds great. So all the writers for this project were people of color you said?
Kevin: Yeah, that sounds great. So all the writers for this project were people of color you said?
Patrick: Yep. Well, it’s just Wayne running it and he’s selecting people to highlight every day of the month, just in a positive way, different people that are somehow impacting the social web. For example, there’s someone who works at Foursquare, someone who works at Ford, someone who is an IT director at a college here in North Carolina. And so on and so forth. Just people who are creating all different types of content and different spaces, different fields, but who have a noteworthy social media presence.
帕特里克：是的 。 Well, it's just Wayne running it and he's selecting people to highlight every day of the month, just in a positive way, different people that are somehow impacting the social web. For example, there's someone who works at Foursquare, someone who works at Ford, someone who is an IT director at a college here in North Carolina. 等等等等。 Just people who are creating all different types of content and different spaces, different fields, but who have a noteworthy social media presence.
Kevin: Very cool. Stephan?
凯文：非常酷。 斯蒂芬？
Stephan: Mine this week is something called Uniform. It’s put out by Pixel Matrix Design, and it basically ties in with jQuery to create uniform, standard form controls that you can custom theme across browsers, so you can make all your form controls look the same, look slick, and just using a theme that they give you an outline for. So, it’s really cool. It’s just a JavaScript library that you include along with jQuery, and it degrades gracefully in IE 6 and works in all the other browsers.
Stephan: Mine this week is something called Uniform . It's put out by Pixel Matrix Design, and it basically ties in with jQuery to create uniform, standard form controls that you can custom theme across browsers, so you can make all your form controls look the same, look slick, and just using a theme that they give you an outline for. So, it's really cool. It's just a JavaScript library that you include along with jQuery, and it degrades gracefully in IE 6 and works in all the other browsers.
Kevin: Wow, that’s cool. We were talking about jQuery last week on the podcast, and yeah, I’ve been wanting to hear about some really neat jQuery plug-ins, and this has just made it to the top of my list. Thankyou, Stephan.
Kevin: Wow, that's cool. We were talking about jQuery last week on the podcast, and yeah, I've been wanting to hear about some really neat jQuery plug-ins, and this has just made it to the top of my list. Thankyou, Stephan.
Stephan: It’s pretty sweet looking.
Stephan: It's pretty sweet looking.
Kevin: Brad, what have you got?
Kevin: Brad, what have you got?
Brad: My whole spotlight this week is a post by Luke Wroblewski, sorry, I’m sure I butchered that Luke, who is a chief design architect at Yahoo. And it’s an interesting take on a different way to layout your web forms. And basically Luke has kind of termed this as “Mad Libs”-style forms which are basically rather than have a form that’s just straight down, first name, last name, phone number, email, whatever field you’re asking for, it’s kind of a narrative format. So it basically presents input fields as blanks within a sentence.
Brad: My whole spotlight this week is a post by Luke Wroblewski, sorry, I'm sure I butchered that Luke, who is a chief design architect at Yahoo. And it's an interesting take on a different way to layout your web forms . And basically Luke has kind of termed this as “Mad Libs”-style forms which are basically rather than have a form that's just straight down, first name, last name, phone number, email, whatever field you're asking for, it's kind of a narrative format. So it basically presents input fields as blanks within a sentence.
For example, if you’re going to fill out a form that would say “Hello, my name is blank, blank,” you would fill in first name and last name, “I live at blank street address, and the blank zip code, please call me back at blank,” which is the phone number. So rather than just having a list it’s in a narrative format. And he actually did some A/B testing on this and found out that using the Mad Libs style form increased the conversion across the board between, or by 25 to 40 percent, which is pretty amazing.
For example, if you're going to fill out a form that would say “Hello, my name is blank, blank,” you would fill in first name and last name, “I live at blank street address, and the blank zip code, please call me back at blank,” which is the phone number. So rather than just having a list it's in a narrative format. And he actually did some A/B testing on this and found out that using the Mad Libs style form increased the conversion across the board between, or by 25 to 40 percent, which is pretty amazing.
And there were a few little differences in the form, the Mad Libs style form and the original form, but definitely not enough to kind of account for the whole increase in conversion. But a 25 to 40 percent increase in conversion rate is amazing. So it’s really kind of an interesting concept that I hadn’t seen before.
And there were a few little differences in the form, the Mad Libs style form and the original form, but definitely not enough to kind of account for the whole increase in conversion. But a 25 to 40 percent increase in conversion rate is amazing. So it's really kind of an interesting concept that I hadn't seen before.
Kevin: I wonder how much of it is the novelty. To some extent on SitePoint, every time we do something that’s different than what we’ve done before, we see an immediate increase in the conversion rate, and we go, “Wow, we’ve discovered something that’s so much better!” But as often as not, six months later it’s performing worse than what we had before because the novelty has worn off. But this is really cool. I can’t tell you why but I want to fill in one of these forms.
Kevin: I wonder how much of it is the novelty. To some extent on SitePoint, every time we do something that's different than what we've done before, we see an immediate increase in the conversion rate, and we go, “Wow, we've discovered something that's so much better!” But as often as not, six months later it's performing worse than what we had before because the novelty has worn off. But this is really cool. I can't tell you why but I want to fill in one of these forms.
Brad: Yeah, I do too. He has a couple links to some websites using it, like Kelley Blue Book is one that’s using it. So it’s pretty interesting. I might try, you know, maybe on a website we develop in the future try this out and just see how well it works. But definitely kind of an interesting little read.
Brad: Yeah, I do too. He has a couple links to some websites using it, like Kelley Blue Book is one that's using it. So it's pretty interesting. I might try, you know, maybe on a website we develop in the future try this out and just see how well it works. But definitely kind of an interesting little read.
Patrick: It sounds a lot like Match Game, my name is blank, I live in blank, you know, I don’t know if that’s dating myself here, Match Game the game show, if anyone here knows what that is! Now over to you Charles Nelson Reilly.
Patrick: It sounds a lot like Match Game, my name is blank, I live in blank, you know, I don't know if that's dating myself here, Match Game the game show, if anyone here knows what that is! Now over to you Charles Nelson Reilly.
Brad: And as an added benefit, Luke’s blog is actually coded using classic ASP, which kind of has a soft spot in my heart since that’s one of my old languages. You don’t see that too often!
Brad: And as an added benefit, Luke's blog is actually coded using classic ASP, which kind of has a soft spot in my heart since that's one of my old languages. You don't see that too often!
Kevin: Is it really classic ASP or is he just putting .asp on his URLs for old time’s sake?
Kevin: Is it really classic ASP or is he just putting .asp on his URLs for old time's sake?
Brad: It’s .asp and it has a query string ID, so I’m assuming, I didn’t really dig into it, but it looks like it is.
Brad: It's .asp and it has a query string ID, so I'm assuming, I didn't really dig into it, but it looks like it is.
Kevin: So this explains to me at last why all the form elements are inline elements in HTML. You know if you just put a bunch of inputs one after another in your code they flow like a paragraph of text does. And that never seemed to me the way people use forms, but at last this Mad Lib forms, it all makes sense.
Kevin: So this explains to me at last why all the form elements are inline elements in HTML. You know if you just put a bunch of inputs one after another in your code they flow like a paragraph of text does. And that never seemed to me the way people use forms, but at last this Mad Lib forms, it all makes sense.
And my host spotlight this week is a blog post on Boing Boing, which is highlighting a petition to make “hella” the official SI prefix for 10 to the 27th. I’ll explain: you know megabytes and then terabytes, well hellabytes is going to be the proposed new name for things that have a one with 27 zeros after them. So one petabyte is a thousand terabytes, one exabyte is a thousand petabytes, one zetabyte is one thousand exabytes, one yottabyte is a thousand zetabytes, and now we’re proposing that one hellabyte will be a thousand yottabytes. I can’t tell you why I love this idea but I just do.
And my host spotlight this week is a blog post on Boing Boing , which is highlighting a petition to make “hella” the official SI prefix for 10 to the 27th. I'll explain: you know megabytes and then terabytes, well hellabytes is going to be the proposed new name for things that have a one with 27 zeros after them. So one petabyte is a thousand terabytes, one exabyte is a thousand petabytes, one zetabyte is one thousand exabytes, one yottabyte is a thousand zetabytes, and now we're proposing that one hellabyte will be a thousand yottabytes. I can't tell you why I love this idea but I just do.
Stephan: It’s hella big.
Stephan: It's hella big.
Patrick: Welcome to holy sanctum of geekdom.
Patrick: Welcome to holy sanctum of geekdom.
Kevin: (laughing) I usually have something a little code-y, but it sounded like you guys had that covered this week so there you go. If you think hellabytes should be the measure for traffic on the internet or as mentioned on the Boing Boing story the US national debt, sign the petition.
Kevin: (laughing) I usually have something a little code-y, but it sounded like you guys had that covered this week so there you go. If you think hellabytes should be the measure for traffic on the internet or as mentioned on the Boing Boing story the US national debt, sign the petition.
Patrick: That’s a little too vulgar to me. I think I’d prefer heckabytes.
Patrick: That's a little too vulgar to me. I think I'd prefer heckabytes.
Kevin: Heckabytes.
Kevin: Heckabytes.
Stephan: Heckabytes.
Stephan: Heckabytes.
Kevin: And that brings us to the end of the show. We are:
Kevin: And that brings us to the end of the show. We are:
Brad: I’m Brad Williams from WebDevStudios. Check out my blog strangework.com, and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba.
Brad: I'm Brad Williams from WebDevStudios. Check out my blog strangework.com , and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba .
Patrick: I’m Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy network, iFroggy.com, and I’m on Twitter @iFroggy.
Patrick: I'm Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy network, iFroggy.com , and I'm on Twitter @iFroggy .
Stephan: And I’m Stephan Seagraves. You can find me on Twitter @sseagraves and my blog is badice.com.
Stephan: And I'm Stephan Seagraves. You can find me on Twitter @sseagraves and my blog is badice.com .
Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint @sitepointdotcom. Visit the SitePoint podcast at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show, let us know what we missed or we were, you know, talking out of our butts and to subscribe to receive every show automatically.
Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint @sitepointdotcom . Visit the SitePoint podcast at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show, let us know what we missed or we were, you know, talking out of our butts and to subscribe to receive every show automatically.
The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I’m Kevin Yank. Thanks for listening. Bye bye.
The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I'm Kevin Yank. 谢谢收听。 再见。
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
谢谢收听！ 欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。
翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-51-real-web-designers-get-it/
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