SitePoint Podcast＃175：版式

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原文链接：https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-175-typography/

版权

Episode 175 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week we have the full panel, Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy) and Kevin Dees (@kevindees).

SitePoint Podcast的第175集现已发布！这周我们将举行完整的小组讨论，分别是Louis Simoneau( @rssaddict )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )和Kevin Dees( @kevindees )。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。这是链接：

~~SitePoint Podcast #175: Typography~~ (MP3, 46:37, 44.8MB)
~~SitePoint Podcast＃175：~~ 印刷术(MP3，46:37，44.8MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

The panel discuss topics such as a new paid social network, user testing and several typography related topics!

小组讨论主题，例如新的付费社交网络，用户测试以及一些与字体相关的主题！

Here are the main topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主要主题：

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/175.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/175中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

Patrick: VEDA – Vlog Every Day in August from Brandon Eley
帕特里克： VEDA –八月每天从布兰登·伊利(Brandon Eley)拍摄的Vlog
Louis: 18 National Flags Made From Food
路易斯： 18面食物制成的国旗
Kevin: Free Icon Fonts for Web User Interfaces
Kevin： Web用户界面的免费图标字体
Stephan: Hear, All Ye People; Hearken, O Earth (Part One) – NYTimes.com
史蒂芬(Stephan)：全民，请听。 O Earth的Hearken(第一部分)– NYTimes.com

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Louis: Hello and welcome to the SitePoint podcast. We’ve got a panel show this week to talk about all the latest happenings in the world of the web. But this time, it feels odd to say this is special, but it is a little bit special. We’ve got a full panel show. Everybody’s here. Hi, guys.

路易斯：您好，欢迎收看SitePoint播客。本周我们将举行一次小组讨论，讨论网络世界中的所有最新情况。但是这一次，说这很特别很奇怪，但这有点特别。我们有一个完整的面板展示。每个人都在这里。嗨，大家好。

Kevin: Hey.

凯文：嘿。

Stephan: Hey, woo-hoo.

斯蒂芬：嘿，呜呜。

Patrick: Hey, it’s been a while. I missed us.

帕特里克：嘿，已经有一段时间了。我想念我们。

Kevin: I didn’t get that the first time. Oh, wait you didn’t say it twice. Dang it.

凯文：我不是第一次来。哦，等一下你没说两次。该死的。

Patrick: No, I didn’t say it twice.

帕特里克：不，我没有说两次。

Kevin: I don’t even know.

凯文：我什至不知道。

Patrick: Sorry, we already don’t know what we’re doing.

帕特里克：对不起，我们已经不知道在做什么。

Kevin: I must be drowsy.

凯文：我一定很困。

Stephan: Yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Louis: This is how long it’s been. We’ve forgotten how to do this.

路易斯：这已经有多久了。我们忘记了怎么做。

Patrick: But it’s good. There’s a lot of travel, a lot of things going on, people being away, accidentally on purpose, planned or otherwise. So, it’s good to have everybody back together.

帕特里克：但这很好。有很多旅行，很多事情在发生，人们离开了，偶然地故意，有计划的或其他方式。因此，让大家聚在一起是一件好事。

Louis: Yeah, it’s good. Well, that obviously means we’re going to have a lot to talk about. So why don’t we just kick right into it? I think you and Stephan both glommed onto the same story this week, so why don’t we start with that?

路易斯：是的，很好。好吧，这显然意味着我们将要谈论很多。那么，为什么我们不直接介入呢？我认为您和斯蒂芬本周都陷入了同一个故事，所以我们为什么不从这个开始呢？

Patrick: Yes, we glommed on like a tumor. Go ahead, Stephen.

帕特里克：是的，我们像肿瘤一样凝视着。继续，斯蒂芬。

Stephan: Well, we glommed onto the same story about app.net, a real-time social feed without the ads being funded finally. So they had a project goal of $500,000, and they’re now up to $760,000, and I think it’s kind of a neat project to look at. I guess the take is that it’s going to be a Twitter competitor, and they really just want to create something that’s not media-driven, but more of the API and developer-driven type application. So, Patrick, you add your two cents.

斯蒂芬：嗯，我们陷入了关于app.net的故事，这是一个实时社交动态，而广告最终没有得到资助。因此，他们的项目目标是50万美元，现在他们的目标是760,000美元，我认为这是一个看起来不错的项目。我猜想这将是Twitter的竞争对手，他们真的只想创建不是由媒体驱动的东西，而是创建更多由API和开发人员驱动的类型应用程序的东西。所以，帕特里克，你加两分钱。

Patrick: Sure. No, I think to understand app.net – and as you said they’ve got nine hours left of funding so they are still taking money. But to understand them, you can take a look at the app.net core values on join.app.net, and I’ll go over those briefly here. The first is we are selling our product, not our users. So, they promise not to sell data or anything to advertisers. Second is, you own your content. They’ll provide an easy way to back up, export, and delete your data whenever you want. Third, we will align our financial incentives with members and developers. So, they’re operating under a paid model, not an ad- supported model. So people pay to have accounts. Number four, their employees spend 100% of their time improving the services for you, not advertisers, again, no advertisers, so that they are improving the services for their members. Number five is they will operate a sustainable, predictable business. They say they’ll have a clear business model, and that services can go away or try to squeeze users for more. But that’s a toxic cycle and they’re not going to do it. Number six is that they respect and value their developer community. They want developers to develop – well, that’s what developers do – but they want developers to build around their platform. That could mean them forgoing some revenue streams, just so that they won’t infringe upon what developers are doing. They say they’ll never screw developers acting in good faith. Finally, number seven, our most valuable asset is your trust, so they pledge to take privacy very seriously and try to learn from the mistakes others have made and to learn from their own mistakes as well in the future. So that’s kind of the gist of app.net. It’s got a lot of press, a lot of buzz. Like you said, they’re up at 761,000 now. So, 11,647 backers, so that’s the number of members they have also. They have three tiers of backing, the member tier, the developer tier, which is $100. The member tier is $50. But the developer one gets you the member features, plus access to the developer tool chain which includes API key generation, AP analytics and so on. Finally, the top tier is $1,000. Get all those developer tools plus phone support and a meeting with the founder of the company Dalton Caldwell in San Francisco. So, in a nut shell, it’s a paid Twitter competitor basically right now. So people paid for the account. They’re paying for the security. The pledge that there will be no advertisers, it’s not built for advertisers, it’s built for users. I took a look and saw if any of you had registered a username yet. I did some common searches for things, Louie, Simoneau, RSSAddict, SSegraves, Segraves, Kevin Dees, nothing. So, I don’t think we, between us, have an account at the site yet, am I right?

帕特里克：当然。不，我想了解app.net –正如您所说，他们还有9个小时的资金可以使用，所以他们仍然在赚钱。但是要了解它们，您可以看一下join.app.net上的app.net核心值，在这里我将简要介绍这些值。首先是我们在销售我们的产品，而不是我们的用户。因此，他们承诺不会向广告商出售数据或任何东西。其次，您拥有自己的内容。它们将提供一种随时随地备份，导出和删除数据的简便方法。第三，我们将使财务激励措施与会员和开发商保持一致。因此，他们是在付费模式下运作，而不是广告支持的模式下运作。因此，人们需要付费才能拥有帐户。第四，他们的员工将100％的时间花费在为您(而不是广告商)上的服务上，而不是在没有广告商的情况下，以便他们在为会员改进服务。第五，他们将经营可持续的，可预测的业务。他们说他们将有一个清晰的业务模型，并且服务可能会消失或试图吸引更多用户。但这是一个有毒的循环，他们不会这样做。第六是他们尊重和重视他们的开发者社区。他们希望开发人员进行开发(这就是开发人员所做的事)，但是他们希望开发人员可以围绕自己的平台进行构建。这可能意味着他们放弃了一些收入来源，只是为了使他们不会侵犯开发人员的行为。他们说，他们绝不会让开发人员真诚地行事。最后，第七，我们最有价值的资产是您的信任，因此他们保证非常重视隐私，并尝试从他人的错误中吸取教训，并在将来也从自己的错误中吸取教训。这就是app.net的要旨。它有很多新闻，很多嗡嗡声。就像您说的，现在他们已经达到了761,000。因此，共有11647位支持者，所以这也是他们拥有的成员数量。他们有三层支持，成员层，开发者层，即100美元。会员级别为$ 50。但是开发人员可以为您提供成员功能，以及对开发人员工具链(包括API密钥生成，AP分析等)的访问权限。最后，最高级别是$ 1,000。获得所有这些开发人员工具以及电话支持，并在旧金山与Dalton Caldwell公司的创始人会面。因此，简而言之，它现在基本上是付费的Twitter竞争对手。因此，人们为该帐户付款。他们为安全付出代价。保证不会有广告商，这不是为广告商而建立的，而是为用户而建立的。我看了一眼，看看是否有人注册了用户名。我对事物进行了一些常规搜索，例如Louie，Simoneau，RSSAddict，SSegraves，Segraves，Kevin Dees，什么都没有。所以，我认为我们之间还没有在该站点拥有帐户，对吗？

Louis: You are right, we don’t. I had seen it mentioned a lot in Twitter streams, but I hadn’t really clicked through to it. I think it’s a great idea. It’s potentially interesting, I mean, there’s definitely some history of creating sort of paid communities in the past. Is MetaFilter sill charging like $5 to join, because it used to? Wow, $5 charge. Yeah, one-time $5 charge to sign up for MetaFilter. Now, obviously that’s a much lower cost. But it does appear to have resulted in a really sustainable community and one where the conversation is of a fairly consistently high level. So, there’s definitely some precedent for this sort of thing, although $50 a year seems quite a lot steeper than a one-off $5 charge. So, obviously, it might not ever take on Twitter or Google Plus head-on, and really win as the dominant social stream. But if it’s something that can stick around forever and where we can go to have intelligent conversations, I think I’m potentially interested. I might sign up for a thing.

路易斯：你是对的，我们不是。我已经看到它在Twitter流中提到了很多，但是我并没有真正点击它。我认为这是个好主意。我的意思是说，这可能很有趣，过去肯定有一些创建付费社区的历史。是不是因为以前的价格，MetaFilter的门槛要收取$ 5的加入费？哇，收费$ 5。是的，一次性收取$ 5的费用即可注册MetaFilter。现在，显然这要便宜得多。但这确实导致了一个真正可持续发展的社区，并且该社区的对话水平一直很高。因此，这种事情肯定有先例，尽管每年50美元似乎比一次性5美元的收费要高得多。因此，很显然，它可能永远不会像Twitter或Google Plus那样迎头赶上，并真正赢得了主流社交渠道的青睐。但是，如果这可以永久存在并且可以进行智能对话，我想我可能会感兴趣。我可能会签约。

Patrick: Right, and with MetaFilter, it’s worth pointing out that they launched in ’99, and then that $5 lifetime membership fee came up – according to Wikipedia – in November of 2004. So that wasn’t something they launched with necessarily. They already had kind of traction. When I look at this project, I think that – and you mentioned $50 a year. That’s what people are paying for. They’re paying for that first year of service. There is such a thing as successful small projects. This doesn’t have to be as big as Twitter to be successful. Because there’s that niche market that maybe those people want to pay for, want to pay for what they are promising, what they’re offering, and maybe it’s not about having a lot of people follow you. But with that comes a couple questions from me. The first is, will people pay for this enough for it not to be just a novelty? I don’t know what level that is, but if you have $761, so they’re essentially pledging a year of access for that. I don’t know, how far can revenue grow, $1 million, $2 million, $5 million, and is that really a big business? Does it matter? I mean, will this catch on?

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，并且值得一提的是，他们使用MetaFilter于99年推出，然后根据Wikipedia于2004年11月提出了5美元的终生会员费。因此，这并不是他们一定要推出的东西。他们已经有了某种吸引力。当我看这个项目时，我认为-您提到的是每年50美元。这就是人们所支付的。他们为第一年的服务付费。成功的小型项目之类的东西。要成功，这不必与Twitter一样大。因为有一个利基市场，那些人可能想要支付，想要为他们的前途，所提供的东西付出代价，也许这并不是要有很多人关注您。但是随之而来的是我的几个问题。第一个是，人们会为此付出足够的代价，而不仅仅是一个新颖性吗？我不知道这是什么水平，但是如果您有761美元，那么他们本质上就是在为此承诺一个访问年。我不知道，收入可以增长到100万美元，200万美元，500万美元，这真的是一项大生意吗？有关系吗？我的意思是，这会流行吗？

Louis: I guess it’s really just a matter of there being a community there. Like it doesn’t really matter whether it makes money or whether it’s a success. If they make enough to pay their developers and to continue to operate, that’s all you really need. But whether there’s enough people on there, continually posting content to make it an interesting community – and it doesn’t take much. I keep harping on about FriendFeed circa 2008 being the golden area of my social media experience, and that was a fairly small community even at its peak before it got acquired by Facebook. As a fairly small community it was still extremely useful and good, and you had enough people to follow, and there’s always interesting content coming through. It should be noted… Sorry. I just realized. It says there are eight hours left to the funding project. So, by the time we go to air it will be too late, so sorry listeners.

路易斯：我想这实际上只是那里有一个社区的问题。就像是赚钱还是成功并不重要。如果他们有足够的钱支付他们的开发人员并继续经营，那便是您真正需要的。但是，是否有足够的人在那里，不断发布内容以使其成为一个有趣的社区-并不需要太多。我一直在谈论FriendFeed，大约是2008年，这是我的社交媒体体验的黄金地段，即使在顶峰时期被Facebook收购之前，这也是一个相当小的社区。作为一个相对较小的社区，它仍然非常有用并且很好，并且您有足够的人关注，并且总是有有趣的内容通过。应该指出的...对不起。我才发现。它说，资助项目还有八个小时。因此，到我们播出时，为时已晚，对不起听众。

Patrick: Yeah. But I’m sure they’ll be opening up in some form in the future.

帕特里克：是的。但是我相信他们将来会以某种形式开放。

Louis: Yeah, I mean obviously this is for access to the alpha and a pre- reservation username. But once it goes into, I assume, beta or into a full release it will be publicly available for, I think, a similar price. It’ll probably also be $50 a year.

路易斯：是的，我的意思是显然是为了访问Alpha和预定的用户名。但是，我认为，一旦它进入Beta或完整版本，它将以相似的价格公开提供。每年也可能是50美元。

Stephan: So, Louis, are you going to sign up at some point?

史蒂芬：路易斯，您打算在某个时候注册吗？

Louis: Yeah, I think I will. I mean, it’s certainly interesting. I’m happy to have a look.

路易斯：是的，我想我会的。我的意思是，这当然很有趣。我很高兴看看。

Stephan: I mean, I guess my problem with this is that it’s a closed network essentially, right? Because you have to pay to be part of it, unless they plan to open it up for people to get it for free with less features. So really, am I going to connect with the people I want to connect with, with this tool?

史蒂芬：我的意思是，我想我的问题是本质上是一个封闭的网络，对吗？因为您必须付费才能参与其中，除非他们计划让人们免费使用功能较少的它来开放它。真的，我是否要通过此工具与想要联系的人建立联系？

Patrick: I’m just thinking about this. You know what I can see happening here? Because again, you talked about the – and this is value of Twitter and the value of Facebook and similar networks is because they’re not around topics. It’s not like I start a forum around the martial arts. Those sites are built around the idea of connecting with people, so it’s really about the people that are on the service and if those are people you want to know. So, that’s why Twitter is still great to me and Facebook is great is because the people that I want to connect with, that’s where they are. It’s possible this could develop into kind of a different dynamic, because part of using Twitter for a lot of people is getting a message to a lot of people. Maybe what could happen here eventually – and it doesn’t have to be the goal, but maybe it is eventually and what they could do is allow people to subscribe to others for free. But then, not actually be able to post and reply without that access charge. I don’t know, it’s just something that came to mind. I could see that being a kind of a natural evolution of it is to subscribe for free, but to say anything, you have to pay.

帕特里克：我只是在想这个。你知道我能在这里看到什么吗？再次，因为您谈到了–这是Twitter的价值，而Facebook和类似网络的价值是因为它们与主题无关。这不像我发起一个关于武术的论坛。这些站点是建立在与人联系的思想上的，因此，它实际上是关于服务中的人以及您是否想认识的人。因此，这就是Twitter仍然对我很棒而Facebook很棒的原因，因为我想与之联系的人就是他们的所在。这可能会演变成一种不同的动态，因为对很多人使用Twitter的一部分是向很多人传达信息。也许最终会在这里发生–不一定是目标，但也许最终是，他们可以做的是允许人们免费订阅他人。但是，实际上，如果没有该访问费用，实际上是无法发布和回复的。我不知道，这只是我想到的。我可以看到，免费订阅是一种自然的演变，但是要说的话，您必须付费。

Louis: Yeah, that’s certainly interesting and it does allow people… Because you think someone’s trying to use this as part of their social media persona, if they’re a fairly well-known figure, okay. You pay your $50, but then you’re interacting with a few hundred other similar-minded people, which is fine. But it’s not serving as your platform out to the world in the same way that Twitter is. So, you kind of still have to keep using Twitter. But if, like you said, it’s public and people can read what you’re saying, then maybe that has the potential to change things. But one way or another, it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. If only for further proof of whether or not asking people to pay for the privilege of being part of a social network is a feasible strategy, because it certainly does lead to a different kind of network. Obviously, it’s great to have a community where you know it’s going to be around because it’s sustainable and it’s not dependent on increasing advertiser revenue or eventually selling out to another big company, at which point the community might just go away entirely. So, for anyone developing a social network obviously it’s a really interesting approach to take to consider charging for it. It’ll be interesting to see if this pans out and that means that others can perhaps in the future take a similar approach.

路易斯：是的，这当然很有趣，而且确实可以使人们……因为您认为某人正在尝试将其用作其社交媒体角色的一部分，如果他们是一个相当知名的人物，可以。您支付了$ 50，然后又与数百名志趣相投的人进行互动，这很好。但是，它不能像Twitter一样，充当您向世界传播的平台。因此，您仍然必须继续使用Twitter。但是，如果像您所说的那样，它是公开的，并且人们可以阅读您在说的话，那么也许这有可能改变事情。但是，以一种或另一种方式，看看这是怎么回事将会很有趣。如果只是为了进一步证明是否要求人们为成为社交网络一部分的特权而付费是可行的策略，因为它确实的确导致了另一种类型的网络。显然，拥有一个社区将是一个很好的机会，因为它是可持续发展的，并且不依赖于增加广告商的收入或最终出售给另一家大公司，这时该社区可能会完全消失。因此，对于开发社交网络的任何人来说，显然要考虑对其收费是一种非常有趣的方法。有趣的是，这是否会成功，这意味着其他人将来可能会采用类似的方法。

Patrick: Yeah. To our audience it’ll be interesting to see how the developers kind of justify that outlay, right? I mean, $100 isn’t much, but $1,000 is a little more. You get that phone support and what not. But I guess you’re kind of an early adopter basically at this point. You’re not making money. You’re developing on the promise of a greater service. It is kind of strange because in general developers will flock to something once it’s popular, because they’re developing for the greatest portion of the audience for the most part. People develop apps for Android and an iOS because those are the two most popular platforms. That’s why Blackberry doesn’t have the same marketplace as those other platforms. So, I don’t know, it’s interesting from that perspective to see developers jumping in and how successful and how much time they’ll actually be able to spend on a product that is really in its infancy.

帕特里克：是的。对于我们的听众来说，看到开发人员如何证明这种花费是正确的，对吗？我的意思是说，100美元虽然不多，但1,000美元还多一点。您可以获得电话支持，而没有获得。但是我想您现在基本上已经是一个早期采用者。你不赚钱您是在发展更多服务的承诺。这有点奇怪，因为一般而言，开发人员一旦流行就会蜂拥而至，因为他们大部分时间都是在为大多数用户开发的。人们开发适用于Android和iOS的应用程序，因为这是两个最受欢迎的平台。这就是Blackberry与其他平台没有相同市场的原因。因此，我不知道，从这个角度来看，有趣的是看到开发人员加入进来，他们真的能够花多少时间购买真正处于初期阶段的产品。

Louis: Yeah, that’s certainly going to be interesting, as well. I guess it’s all kind of in a wait and see situation at the moment now, although obviously there are eight hours left of the initial funding project. So, if you want to prepay and pre-reserve your username you have to do it now.

路易斯：是的，那当然也很有趣。我想目前眼下一切都在观望中，尽管显然最初的资助项目还剩下八个小时。因此，如果您想预付款并预先保留用户名，则必须立即进行操作。

Patrick: I will be honest, if “/Patrick” was available, I would already have done it. But beyond that, someone else already took that. So, I’m just like, “I’ll wait to see what happens here.”

帕特里克(Patrick)：老实说，如果有“ / Patrick”，我已经做到了。但是除此之外，其他人已经接受了。所以，我就像，“我等着看这里发生什么。”

Kevin: I know I haven’t said much on this topic. I just don’t see why anyone would want to pay for Twitter and this essentially looks like Twitter to me. I mean it’s using Twitter bootstrap for crying out loud.

凯文：我知道我在这个话题上还没说太多。我只是不明白为什么有人愿意为Twitter付费，这在我看来基本上就像Twitter。我的意思是使用Twitter引导程序大声喊叫。

Patrick: Right, I think the idea is that… That’s a good point, because a lot of the people donating, is it fair to say are the geeky types?

帕特里克(Patrick)：对，我认为这个主意是……这很重要，因为很多人都在捐款，可以说是怪异类型吗？

Kevin: Absolutely, that’s what I mean.

凯文：当然，那是我的意思。

Louis: Absolutely.

路易斯：绝对。

Patrick: There are successful products that are just sold to geeky types. There’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have to be the largest in the world. This could develop into the techie Twitter alternative, where all the cool techie people hang out. That’s fine. But as a mainstream product, getting people to have that buy-in on something like this to pay money, even an amount that’s really not that much, five $50 dollars a year, a few bucks a month, that’s nothing. But still it is money, and people will be reluctant to part with it. It’s the same thing that happened with Google Plus and Google Plus is free. Why Google Plus? I use Facebook. Why is that necessary? Well, the same is true here except it doesn’t have Google’s backing and they’re charging for it. So, I don’t know. But you never know.

帕特里克(Patrick)：有些成功的产品只是卖给了令人讨厌的类型。没有错。您不必是世界上最大的。这可能会发展成为技术推特Twitter的替代方案，所有很酷的技术人员都会在这里闲逛。没关系。但是作为一种主流产品，让人们能够用这种东西来买单来付钱，甚至还不算多，每年五美元50美元，一个月几美元，那也不是什么。但是仍然是金钱，人们将不愿放弃它。 Google Plus和Google Plus是免费的，这是一回事。为什么选择Google Plus？我使用Facebook。为什么有必要？好吧，这里同样如此，只是它没有Google的支持，而他们为此收费。所以，我不知道。但是你永远不知道。

Louis: You never know.

路易斯：你永远不知道。

Patrick: But you guys are the geeky types and you’re not on there yet, so I don’t know. Maybe one of you needs to go on there.

帕特里克：但是你们是怪异的类型，您还不在那儿，所以我不知道。也许你们其中之一需要继续前进。

Kevin: It just seems to me like if the stream is going to be open to the world and you have to pay for a conversation, all of that already exists on Twitter and it’s free. Like, outside of, maybe access to my information, which I guess could kind of be the pitch, which is “Hey, Facebook has screwed you so many times. We won’t.”

凯文：在我看来，如果流向全世界开放并且您必须付费进行对话，那么所有这些都已经存在于Twitter上并且是免费的。就像在外面，也许是在访问我的信息一样，我想这可能是个推销，这是“嘿，Facebook搞砸了你很多次。我们不会。”

Patrick Right.

帕特里克·右。

Kevin: But your average person, especially if you’re a geek, you just don’t put that information out there if it’s going to get you in trouble. So, I don’t know.

凯文：但是你的普通人，特别是如果你是一个极客，就不会把这些信息摆在那儿，如果这会给你带来麻烦。所以，我不知道。

Stephan: I just don’t know if I want to pay to be bombarded by “PHP sucks” hash tags. I don’t know if I want to pay for that, because that’s what’s going to happen.

史蒂芬：我只是不知道我是否愿意支付被“ PHP糟透了”哈希标签轰炸的费用。我不知道是否要为此付出代价，因为这将要发生。

Patrick: It’s all a matter of perspective, right? Because if you flip this if it’s not coming from Caldwell and sort of this start-up geeky mentality, and a major player was introduced into this. I’ll throw Google Plus out there, and they said, “Well, we’ll charge you a $50 a year to get in.” I think that would have been pretty widely criticized.

帕特里克(Patrick)：这完全取决于视角，对吗？因为如果您不是从考德威尔(Caldwell)那里拿到这笔钱，并且没有这种初学者怪异的心态，那么就会引入一位主要参与者。我将Google Plus扔在那里，他们说：“好吧，我们每年会向您收取50美元的费用。” 我认为这将受到广泛的批评。

Kevin: Absolutely.

凯文：是的 。

Patrick: So I guess it all depends on where it’s coming from and who’s coming up with the idea. They can afford to be sort of young and experimental with this process and it’s good. I like to see people experimenting on how they make money, even if it’s not my money right now.

帕特里克：所以我想这全都取决于它来自何处以及谁提出了这个想法。他们可以承受这个过程的年轻化和实验性，这很好。我喜欢看到人们尝试如何赚钱，即使现在还不是我的钱。

Louis: You say right now as if you’re planning on taking over.

路易斯：您现在说的好像是您打算接管。

Patrick: Well, you know what? If they’re listening, give me that Patrick username, kick whoever that is out, they haven’t really posted any messages yet, and I will give you $50 for the Patrick username.

帕特里克：嗯，你知道吗？如果他们在听，请给我那个Patrick用户名，踢出去的人，他们还没有真正发布任何消息，我会给您50美元作为Patrick用户名。

Louis: All right, reckon we can shift gears now. An interesting story I saw this past week was that Adobe has introduced their first complete open source type family. It’s called Source Sans Pro. This is a pretty lengthy blog post on Adobe’s typography blog that I’ve just realized is actually called “Tyblography,” which is pretty nerdy.

路易斯：好的，我们现在可以换档了。我上周看到的一个有趣的故事是Adobe推出了他们的第一个完整的开源类型系列。它称为Source Sans Pro。这是我刚刚意识到的关于Adobe印刷博客的一篇很长的博客文章，实际上叫做“印刷术”，它相当书呆子。

Stephan: Sorry.

斯蒂芬：对不起。

Louis: That’s an entirely legitimate reaction to reading “Tyblography” for the first time. It talks a little about the history of their involvement in typography and the free tools that they provide their involvement in the open type standard. It moves on to talk a little bit about the inspiration of this typeface which largely comes from some of the 20th century Gothic typefaces. They mention specifically News Gothic and Franklin Gothic as inspirations. Then a little bit how things were changed based on user feedback, so a lot of those Gothic typefaces have a lowercase “l” and a capital “I”, which were very similar and indistinguishable and that came out in the user feedback when they were testing this. So, the designer goes on to explain that he added a little tail to the l’s just to disambiguate them, even though that’s not really consistent with the rest of the typeface. But I think it does wind up looking really good. Yeah, and they released it fully open source. It’s available on web font hosting services, like Google Web Fonts. It will, apparently, shortly be available for use directly in Google documents and presentations. There’s also the full package, so because it’s open source they’re making all of the source files used in the production available. So, anyone who wants to look at what goes into making a complete type family can definitely have a look at that. Obviously the other advantage of it being open source is that they’ve got a road map for continued development. So, currently it includes language support for Latin scripts, including Western and Eastern European languages, Vietnamese, the Pinyin Romanization of Chinese, and Navajo, which is like a less common language to be found in fonts. But if you ever need it it can obviously be a struggle to find a good-looking typeface that includes the characters you need. So, that’s interesting, and they mention that in their future plans, they plan to introduce Cyrillic and Greek character support as well and to create a mono-spaced version of the design. So, really interesting work on behalf of Adobe and I think it’s a great move to see contributions to open source like this from big companies.

路易斯：这是第一次阅读《 Tyblography》的完全合法的React。它讨论了他们参与排版的历史以及他们提供的参与开放式标准的免费工具。接下来继续讨论这种字体的灵感，该字体主要来自20世纪某些哥特式字体。他们特别提到News Gothic和Franklin Gothic作为灵感。然后一点点如何根据用户反馈进行更改，因此许多哥特式字体都具有小写字母“ l”和大写字母“ I”，它们非常相似且难以区分，当它们被测试这个。因此，设计师继续解释说，他在l的后面添加了一些尾巴，以消除它们的歧义，即使这与字体的其余部分并不一致。但是我认为它确实看起来非常不错。是的，他们发布了完全开源的代码。它可以在网络字体托管服务(例如Google Web Fonts)上使用。显然，它将很快可以直接在Google文档和演示文稿中使用。还有完整的软件包，因此，因为它是开源的，所以它们使生产中使用的所有源文件可用。因此，任何想研究组成一个完整类型家庭的东西的人都可以肯定地看一下。显然，它是开源的另一个优点是他们已经有了继续开发的路线图。因此，目前它包括对拉丁脚本的语言支持，包括西欧和东欧语言，越南语，汉语拼音罗马化和Navajo，后者在字体中不太常见。但是，如果您需要它，显然很难找到包含所需字符的美观字体。因此，这很有趣，他们提到在未来的计划中，他们计划同时引入西里尔字母和希腊字符支持，并创建一个等距版本的设计。因此，代表Adobe进行的非常有趣的工作，我认为这是一个很棒的举动，看到大型公司对开源这样的贡献。

Stephan: I’m trying to tell, is the actual blog post in the font? I think it is, because if you look at the l’s, they have the little tails.

史蒂芬：我想说的是，实际的博客帖子是否使用了字体？我认为是这样，因为如果您看l，它们的尾巴会很小。

Kevin: I believe you’re right Stephen. I went in and inspected it, and it’s like Adobe Clean 1, so they’re not exactly using the name of the font family.

凯文：我相信你是对的斯蒂芬。我进去检查了一下，它就像Adobe Clean 1，所以它们没有完全使用字体家族的名称。

Stephan: Yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Kevin: It’s not called Source Sans Pro in the document object model. It would seem kind of odd not to do this blog post in the font that they’re advertising.

凯文：在文档对象模型中，它不称为Source Sans Pro。不使用他们正在宣传的字体来撰写此博客帖子似乎有点奇怪。

Louis: They look similar, but I’m going to go with the most obvious… Well, there are two differences that I think that are fairly clear. If you look at, in the top there, Source Sans Pro, if you look at just that header image for this blog post, if you look at the “a” the lower case “a” it’s in a totally different style from the one that’s in the blog post. I don’t know what those two different ways of writing a lower case “a” are called. I’m sure some type nerd will be able to inform me and I’m sure they have names. But the one where….

路易斯：它们看起来很相似，但是我要讲的最明显。。。嗯，我认为有两个明显的区别。如果您在顶部查看Source Sans Pro，则仅查看此博客文章的标题图片，如果您查看“ a”小写字母“ a”，则其样式完全不同在博客文章中。我不知道写小写字母“ a”的两种不同方式叫什么。我确定有些书呆子能够通知我，而且我确定他们有名字。但是那是……。

Stephan: Yeah. There’s not tail on the “a” in the blog post, but there’s a tail on the “a” in the picture.

斯蒂芬：是的。博客文章中的“ a”没有尾巴，但是图片中的“ a”却有尾巴。

Louis: Yeah. Then the ‘o’ the lower case ‘o’ is somewhat elliptical in Source Sans, and in Adobe Clean it looks to be nearly perfectly spherical.

路易斯：是的。然后，在Source Sans中，“ o”小写字母“ o”是椭圆形的，而在Adobe Clean中，它看起来几乎是完美的球形。

Stephan: Yeah, I got you.

斯蒂芬：是的，我懂了。

Louis: All right, well anyway one way or another, the Adobe “Tyblography” blog is not set in Source Sans Pro as of yet. It is set in another font called Adobe Clean. It took us a little while to figure that out. But, nonetheless, it looks really interesting.

路易斯：好吧，无论如何，Adobe Sans Pro尚未设置Adobe“ Tyblography”博客。它以另一种称为Adobe Clean的字体设置。我们花了一些时间才弄清楚。但是，尽管如此，它看起来确实很有趣。

Stephan: I like the idea of the l’s with the tails. I like that and it looks good, so I’m just going to say that. I’ll throw that out there.

斯蒂芬：我喜欢带尾巴的l的想法。我喜欢它，而且看起来不错，所以我只想这么说。我把那扔出去。

Louis: Yeah I also like it. I think it is – that’s what I was saying. He’s sort of saying – in the blog post he says, “I gave the default glyph for this letter a tail even though it is uncharacteristic of this particular type style.” So if you look above at that picture of News Gothic for example, that lower case “l” is pretty much only differentiated from the capital “I” by its width, which is particularly difficult to read especially at a small type size. But not only is the lowercase “l” a bit taller. It also has that tail, and I think it looks really good as well. It fits the overall rhythm of the typeface even if it is a level of ornamentation that the font otherwise doesn’t have.

路易斯：是的，我也喜欢。我认为是–这就是我所说的。他有点话说–在博客中，他说：“我给这封信的默认字形加了尾标，即使它不具有这种特殊的字体风格。” 因此，例如，如果您看一下News News Gothic的图片，则小写字母“ l”仅与大写字母“ I”的宽度有所区别，这尤其难以阅读，尤其是小字体时。但不仅小写字母“ l”高一点。它也有那条尾巴，我认为它看起来也很好。它适合字体的整体节奏，即使它是字体没有的装饰水平。

Stephan: I like it. I have to try this font out on a website sometime. I don’t have a project in mind, but I think it’d be a good one.

史蒂芬：我喜欢。我有时必须在网站上尝试这种字体。我没有想到一个项目，但是我认为这是一个很好的项目。

Louis: Yeah. It should be mentioned that some of these typefaces that get attention, the fonts that Google released for free that it used in the Android operation system… So, initially it was – what was the first one? It was Droid Sans and then Roboto is the more recent. Those are very distinctive typefaces with a very identifiable look. So, as people on blogs are like, “Oh there’s this cool free font that was done by Google and I started using it,” you start seeing it a lot and it gets to be a little bit too omnipresent. But this typeface is really very basic, very clean. It doesn’t have a lot of decoration. It’s not super recognizable, but it is really nice and well-designed. So, it’s something I think you could use for a main body typeface on your website without necessarily giving away that you’re jumping on the bandwagon of using this latest free front. It should also be noted that they developed it partly just to serve as the user interface font in some of their open source projects, so Adobe does work on a few open source software projects and they wanted the user interface typeface to also fall under the same licensing terms as the applications they’re releasing, I imagine. So, it was designed to be legible in sort of single word UI labels, as well as to be usable as a main body typeface. That was sort of the design problem that they were trying to solve with this. There’s a lot of background and interesting content about the development of the font in this blog post. So, I encourage people to read it.

路易斯：是的。应当提到的是，其中一些字体引起了人们的注意，例如Google在Android操作系统中免费发布的字体……那么，最初它是–第一个是什么？是Droid Sans，然后是Roboto。这些是非常独特的字体，具有非常可识别的外观。因此，就像博客上的人们一样，“哦，这是Google制作的很酷的免费字体，我开始使用它了”，您会发现它很多，而且变得无所不在。但是这种字体确实非常基础，非常干净。它没有很多装饰。它不是超级可识别的，但是它确实很好并且设计得很好。因此，我认为您可以在您的网站上使用它作为主体字体，而不必放弃您正在使用最新的免费前面板的潮流。还应该注意的是，他们部分地开发它只是为了在某些开源项目中用作用户界面字体，因此Adobe确实在一些开源软件项目上工作，并且他们希望用户界面字体也属于同一字体。我想，将术语作为它们要发布的应用程序进行许可。因此，它被设计为在单个单词UI标签中清晰易读，并且可用作主体字体。这就是他们试图解决的设计问题。在此博客文章中，有许多关于字体开发的背景知识和有趣的内容。因此，我鼓励人们阅读它。

Kevin: So yeah, speaking about typography, I figured the next best story to talk about would be WordPress. So, the title of this blog post is, “Help Us Help WordPress.” Basically, there’s been this kind of issue coming up and cropping up in WordPress as its popularity continues to subscribe new users to it, but also new developers. This issue is around the usability of WordPress and the fact that no plugin is the same. That you’ll install one plug in and it’ll use different navigational elements, and it’ll use different interface elements, and it’ll use different hierarchy, and just the list goes on and on. There is no consistency between plugins. So, in this blog post, this team goes through and they talk about how they kind of came to the conclusion that they did, that WordPress is kind of broken in this. So, they want to basically institute and get developers on board and people on board that use WordPess to help develop an interface guideline for WordPress development. Not necessarily the WordPress core team, but just the people who are building plugins and themes for that. The blog post kind of uses that as a subject. But it actually latches onto something deeper, which I think would be good for conversation here, which is basically usability testing. How that’s important in eliminating assumptions that we make that we think our users will have when developing maybe plugins or websites in general. They mention the book written by Steve Krug, which I have not read yet. I own it, I just never really read it, because I’ve never really instituted doing “Rocket Surgery Made Easy,” which is the name of the book. Have you guys heard of the book?

凯文：是的，谈到排版，我认为接下来要谈论的最好的故事就是WordPress。因此，此博客文章的标题为“帮助我们帮助WordPress”。基本上，随着WordPress的流行继续吸引新用户，也吸引了新的开发人员，因此WordPress中出现了这类问题。此问题与WordPress的可用性有关，并且没有插件是相同的。您将安装一个插件，它将使用不同的导航元素，并且将使用不同的界面元素，并且将使用不同的层次结构，仅此而已。插件之间没有一致性。因此，在这篇博客文章中，这个团队经历了整个过程，他们讨论了他们如何得出结论，即WordPress在这种情况下是如何被打破的。因此，他们希望基本上建立并聘请使用WordPess的开发人员以及使用WordPess的人员来帮助开发WordPress开发的界面指南。不一定是WordPress核心团队，而是只是为此构建插件和主题的人员。博客文章将其用作主题。但实际上，它锁定在更深层次的内容上，我认为这对这里的对话会很有用，这基本上是可用性测试。这对于消除我们通常认为在开发插件或网站时我们认为用户将拥有的假设具有重要意义。他们提到了史蒂夫·克鲁格(Steve Krug)所写的书，但我尚未阅读。我拥有它，我从来没有真正读过它，因为我从来没有真正开始做过《火箭外科轻松》(这是本书的名称)的工作。你们听说过这本书吗？

Louis: Yeah, I have.

路易斯：是的，我有。

Kevin: Yes, no, maybe?

凯文：是的，不是吗？

Louis: I was a big fan of Krug’s earlier book, “Don’t make me think” as a sort of primer…

路易斯：我是克鲁格(Krug)较早出版的书的忠实拥护者，“不要让我思考”是一种入门。

Kevin: That’s an excellent book.

凯文：那是一本好书。

Louis: …on the concepts of web usability, which is really fantastic. If anyone’s listening and hasn’t read it yet, and you do anything related to software or web design or development, you should absolutely read it whether or not you’re a designer. Yeah, read it. It’ll take you twenty minutes to read it. It’s a really short book. But it’s really fun and it really gives some good primers. Yeah. But, I saw the second one… Just because I haven’t really had the opportunity to do a lot of user testing apart from just sort of grabbing someone from another team and just sort of pointing them at something and walking them through it.

路易斯： …关于网络可用性的概念，这确实很棒。如果有人在听并且还没有读过它，并且您进行了与软件，网页设计或开发有关的任何事情，则无论您是否是设计师，都应该绝对阅读它。是的，阅读它。阅读它将花费您20分钟。这是一本非常短的书。但这确实很有趣，并且确实提供了一些不错的入门。是的但是，我看到了第二个……只是因为我没有真正的机会进行大量的用户测试，除了只是从另一个团队中抓人，而只是将他们指向某个东西并引导他们完成。

Kevin: Right.

凯文：对。

Louis: But really sort of real user testing with real users, haven’t had the opportunity, so I didn’t take a look at that book.

路易斯：但是真正的对真实用户的真实用户测试并没有机会，所以我没有看这本书。

Kevin: Yeah, one of the assumptions that people make, and Steve points this out in both books, that user testing is just this elaborate – video cameras everywhere, microphones, hanging wires, and they put the little stickers on your forehead with the wires connected to them kind of thing. it’s just not that at all. It’s not like going to the doctor’s office or the dentist. So, usability testing can be fun and the rocket surgery book, for people who don’t know, it’s basically the cheaper and fun way of doing user testing. So, as they go through this blog post on Smashing Magazine, wp.smashingmagazine.com, they go to talk about the amount of time it took them. It was probably around eight hours. So, it only took them a day, one day, to do all the testing, to get all this great feedback. They just used some basic technology like Go2Meeting, joinme.com, or Adobe Connect. I mean, you could even use Skype if you really wanted to or Google Hangouts. They recorded the screen using ScreenFlow, so of course they’re using Macs. But basically, they kind of give you this outline list of the steps that they took. The first of the thing was kind of to setup a basic WordPress site, so you have to have a testing environment for people to kind of go to and test whatever you’re talking about, or if you already have an app, a free way for them to get to that. Then, they go on to talk about, “Okay, we want to list out some core pieces of the functionality of our plugin that we want people to kind of test and see if it works.” So, they didn’t want to go very minute. They kind of stayed rather broad so they said turning on the actual plugin or finding the actual plugin display on the website. It goes through some really interesting stuff, and the data that they get back is actually kind of interesting. It’s just kind of encouraging to see, Okay, these are some of the things that they learned. It seems like small details. Like, one of them is locations of the settings page. So, should they put that under the settings of the WordPress core settings page? Or put that as a sub-link inside of their plugin’s page? If that makes any sense. So, it’s just the little things like that that could actually make a big difference in an application. So, it’s just nice to see a blog post on user testing and kind of what that looks like outside of 37 signals, to be honest.

凯文：是的，这是人们做出的一种假设，史蒂夫在两本书中都指出了这一点，即用户测试就是这么复杂-到处都是摄像机，麦克风，吊线，他们用线将小贴纸贴在你的额头上与他们有关的事情。根本不是那样。这不像去医生的办公室或牙医。因此，可用性测试可能很有趣，对于那些不了解火箭的人来说，这是一本有趣的工具，对于那些不知道的人来说，这基本上是进行用户测试的更便宜，更有趣的方式。因此，当他们浏览Smashing Magazine上的博客文章wp.smashingmagazine.com时，他们会谈论花费他们的时间。大概是八个小时。因此，只花了一天，一天的时间进行所有测试，即可获得所有这些出色的反馈。他们只是使用了一些基本技术，例如Go2Meeting， joinme.com或Adobe Connect。我的意思是，如果您真的愿意，甚至可以使用Skype或Google Hangouts。他们使用ScreenFlow录制了屏幕，因此他们当然是使用Mac。但基本上，它们会为您提供所采取步骤的概述列表。首先是要建立一个基本的WordPress网站，因此您必须拥有一个测试环境，以便人们可以去测试您正在谈论的内容，或者如果您已经有一个应用程序，那么这是一种免费的方法让他们做到这一点。然后，他们继续谈论：“好吧，我们想列出插件功能的一些核心部分，我们希望人们进行某种测试，看看它是否有效。” 因此，他们不想花太多时间。他们有点宽泛，所以他们说要打开实际的插件或在网站上找到实际的插件显示。它经历了一些非常有趣的事情，而它们返回的数据实际上是很有趣的。看到这些是他们学到的一些东西，这真是令人鼓舞。似乎是小细节。就像，其中之一是设置页面的位置。那么，他们应该将其放在WordPress核心设置页面的设置下吗？还是将其作为其插件页面内的子链接？如果那有意义的话。因此，实际上只有很小的事情才能在应用程序中产生很大的不同。因此，很高兴看到一篇有关用户测试的博客帖子，说实话，这是37种信号之外的内容。

Louis: Yeah. I absolutely like the ideas behind this and it definitely raises the question about WordPress plugins specifically, because you’re right. There is no “third defacto standards”, as they say, about where your plugin settings go in the menu hierarchy. But they’re a little bit haphazardly followed, and whether they’re actually the best idea because it does eventually get pretty cluttered if you’ve got a lot of plugins. Although, I wonder if maybe part of that comes back to WordPress itself. If, rather than giving you as much flexibility of putting your stuff everywhere, there was just a really strong default that puts all of the settings for the various plugins in one place, maybe under plugins or under plugin settings or something like that. That just gave users a hint so that they would have an idea where to look. Because it seems one of the problems they’re experiencing with their users here is that the users didn’t know where to look for the plugin settings.

路易斯：是的。我绝对喜欢这个背后的想法，并且肯定会引起有关WordPress插件的问题，因为您是对的。正如他们所说，关于插件设置在菜单层次结构中的位置，没有“事实上的第三标准”。但是，还是有些随意地遵循它们，以及它们是否实际上是最好的主意，因为如果您有很多插件，它最终会变得很混乱。虽然，我想知道其中的一部分是否可以归结到WordPress本身。如果不是给您尽可能多的灵活性来放置您的东西，而是有一个非常强大的默认设置，那就是将各种插件的所有设置都放在一个位置，可能在插件下或在插件设置下等等。这只是给用户一个提示，使他们可以知道在哪里看。因为这似乎是他们与用户一起遇到的问题之一，那就是用户不知道在哪里可以找到插件设置。

Kevin: Right.

凯文：对。

Louis: Their suggestion is that there should be human interface guidelines for WordPress for plugins. Sort of following on what Apple did for iOS and what Google has followed on and done for Android as well, to just provide some good general guidelines for people to use when designing the user interface of a WordPress plugin.

路易斯：他们的建议是应该为插件使用WordPress的人机界面指南。以下是有关Apple在iOS上所做的工作以及Google在Android上继之而来的工作的类似情况，以为设计WordPress插件的用户界面时提供一些良好的通用指导。

Kevin: I think there’s actually another layer to this and the usability of WordPress. It’s much more usable than Drupal, by the way, and some other systems out there due to its simplicity.

凯文：我认为实际上还有另一层和WordPress的可用性。顺便说一下，由于它的简单性，它比Drupal和其他一些系统更有用。

Louis: I think the cockpit of a 747 is more usable than Drupal. I know I’m going to bring on massive rage in the comments from saying that, but there we go. I said it. Bring it on.

路易斯：我认为747的驾驶舱比Drupal更有用。我知道我会因为这样说而在评论中引起极大的愤怒，但是我们走了。我说了。来吧。

Kevin: Yeah I wouldn’t actually mostly disagree. You have to know Drupal really well. You just don’t pick up Drupal and start making sites with it like you can with WordPress. That’s just not going to happen. You’re just not going to do it. You’re going to need to spend like a week and a half just learning the interface of Drupal before you even get good at making sites. But that’s kind of beside the point. The point I’m trying to make here is that in contrast to, say, Drupal, WordPress also runs wordpress.com. Because the core development team of WordPress is wordpress.com, they’re going to make some design decisions based on their users of their site more over maybe the overall need to perhaps revamp the WordPress interface, based on all the new functionality that’s come out. Because if they make a massive change, that’s going to reflect over at wordpress.com and they could take a lot of flak from that. So, you have this open source project that’s kind of biased towards the proprietary side of things. So, it’s hard for WordPress in that context to kind of say, “Okay, we’re going to take this new direction as far as design goes,” or maybe interface guidelines. Now, interface guidelines are just that. They’re guidelines. You don’t have to implement them. But if you do, there are many benefits to it. So, I feel like a lot of these issues are really around just WordPress can’t really go and just change the way they do things.

凯文：是的，我实际上不会反对。您必须非常了解Drupal。您只是不选择Drupal而是像使用WordPress一样开始使用它来创建网站。那只是不会发生。您只是不会这样做。在精通网站之前，您将需要花费大约半个星期来学习Drupal的界面。但这有点不重要。我要在这里提出的要点是，与Drupal相比，WordPress还运行wordpress.com 。由于WordPress的核心开发团队是wordpress.com，因此他们将根据自己网站的用户做出更多的设计决策，而不是根据出现的所有新功能来修改WordPress界面的总体需求。。因为如果他们做出了巨大的改变，那将在wordpress.com上得到反映，他们可能会因此大吃一惊。因此，您拥有一个偏向于专有方面的开源项目。因此，在这种情况下，WordPress很难说“好吧，就设计而言，我们将朝这个新方向发展”，或者可能是界面指南。现在，界面指导仅此而已。它们是准则。您不必实现它们。但是，如果这样做，它会带来很多好处。因此，我觉得其中很多问题实际上只是WordPress无法解决，只能改变其处理方式。

Louis: Yeah, it is a different kind of ecosystem.

路易斯：是的，这是另一种生态系统。

Patrick: Open source.

帕特里克：开源。

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Patrick: I wanted to say, the final frontier.

帕特里克：我想说的是最后的边界。

Louis: Yeah. Hey, sorry. Maybe one of you guys can assist me with this. One of the things that I noticed when you linked to this story on Smashing Magazine is that the design of Smashing Magazine looks totally different from the last time I saw it. I’m not sure whether that’s because I always see it in RSS Reader and I haven’t seen the site in forever. But is this new design – how new is this new design? Because it’s fantastic, I really like it.

路易斯：是的。嘿，对不起。也许你们中的一个可以帮助我。当您链接到Smashing Magazine上的这个故事时，我注意到的一件事是，Smashing Magazine的设计看起来与我上次看到的完全不同。我不确定是否是因为我总是在RSS Reader中看到它，而且我还没有永远看到过该网站。但是，这是新设计吗？新设计有多新？ Because it's fantastic, I really like it.

Kevin: Yeah. The new design was done by Elliot Jay Stocks. He went and kind of did a lot of typographical things to it. I think there was actually a blog post at some point. I feel like it was a good little while ago. At least six months ago I would say.

凯文：是的。 The new design was done by Elliot Jay Stocks. He went and kind of did a lot of typographical things to it. I think there was actually a blog post at some point. I feel like it was a good little while ago. At least six months ago I would say.

Louis: We’re going totally off track here. But there used to be a big block of ads down the right hand side. I can’t even find ads on this page anymore, so have they changed their business model entirely? I know they have some books.

Louis: We're going totally off track here. But there used to be a big block of ads down the right hand side. I can't even find ads on this page anymore, so have they changed their business model entirely? I know they have some books.

Patrick: No. There are ads right on the page to the right side. What are you viewing it on?

Louis: On Chrome.

Patrick: Desktop?

Louis: Smashingmagazine.com, super-wide desktop, 1920 pixels wide.

Louis: Smashingmagazine.com , super-wide desktop, 1920 pixels wide.

Patrick: Huh?

Louis: I’m seeing two menus, then the thing, and then there’s this search on the right side. There’s a search menu, smashing highlights, get your smashing book, the newsletter, job board…

Louis: I'm seeing two menus, then the thing, and then there's this search on the right side. There's a search menu, smashing highlights, get your smashing book, the newsletter, job board…

Patrick: Do you have some sort of ad block thing on?

Louis: Oh, boy, maybe I do.

Patrick: Are you blocking ads?

Louis: I’m like, “This is a beautiful redesign.”

Louis: I'm like, “This is a beautiful redesign.”

Patrick: Gosh. I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed. Come on, Louis.

Patrick: Gosh. I'm disappointed in you. I'm disappointed. Come on, Louis.

Louis: Hold on, I think I was having some problems with something crashing my browser on a forum I was visiting the other day. I may have… Yeah, totally. No wonder it looked so good.

Patrick: I think their ads look nice. But okay, that’s fine.

Patrick: I think their ads look nice. But okay, that's fine.

Louis: But nonetheless…

Kevin: Actually they’ve started charging $50 a user.

Kevin: Actually they've started charging $50 a user.

Louis: Yeah, exactly.

Patrick: Yes, just for people with the first name that starts with “l” however.

Louis: Yeah, to be fair, I know Patrick and I know some people have strong opinions about this. I generally do not browse the web with an ad blocker turned off.

Patrick: All right.

帕特里克：好的。

Louis: Like I said, it was specifically because there was a forum I was visiting that had an ad that was an auto playing video that was all the way at the bottom of the page. It was flash and it was locking up my browser. I needed the information on the forum, so I had to install a blocker and I forgot to turn it off.

Patrick: All right. So that’s another thing that will never make the actual live air about Smashing Magazine.

帕特里克：好的。 So that's another thing that will never make the actual live air about Smashing Magazine.

Louis: No, it probably should. It’s very interesting, although I still think this is a fantastic redesign. It should be said that I really, really like it and I had not seen it with or without ads. So, I guess I must just always see it through Flipboard or an RSS reader, or something. So, I don’t actually see what the website looks like. But the sort of super-wide, three-tiered navigation version of their responsive site is really, really nice. Yeah, I love it. But anyway, that’s a total sidetrack from what we were talking about, which was WordPress and user testing, which was a sidetrack from WordPress.

Louis: No, it probably should. It's very interesting, although I still think this is a fantastic redesign. It should be said that I really, really like it and I had not seen it with or without ads. So, I guess I must just always see it through Flipboard or an RSS reader, or something. So, I don't actually see what the website looks like. But the sort of super-wide, three-tiered navigation version of their responsive site is really, really nice. 是的，我喜欢。 But anyway, that's a total sidetrack from what we were talking about, which was WordPress and user testing, which was a sidetrack from WordPress.

Kevin: It’s okay.

Kevin: It's okay.

Patrick: Oh boy.

Louis: User testing, we should do it. WordPress, it should be more usable. WordPress developers should do user testing. Drupal developers should also do user testing.

Kevin: A lot more of it, too.

Louis: So, I think those are the core take home messages of that conversation. Also, Smashing Magazine redesign was excellent. There we go. That’s everything you need to know about that conversation.

Louis: So, I think those are the core take home messages of that conversation. Also, Smashing Magazine redesign was excellent. 好了 That's everything you need to know about that conversation.

Kevin: Turn on your ad blocker.

Louis: Turn on or off your ad blocker as your preference is. But obviously, sites depend on ads to make money. So, if you like the content, then it’s only fair that you should see some ads unless you’re paying for the site, right?

Louis: Turn on or off your ad blocker as your preference is. But obviously, sites depend on ads to make money. So, if you like the content, then it's only fair that you should see some ads unless you're paying for the site, right?

Patrick: That’s a feature of the subscription, yeah.

Patrick: That's a feature of the subscription, yeah.

Louis: Yeah, then that’s a different story…

Louis: Yeah, then that's a different story…

Patrick: It is?

Louis: …that we can talk about it another time, I guess.

Patrick: Never!

Stephan: So in developer news, TextMate 2 is now on GitHub, and so they’ve actually announced that it’s going open source just recently on August 9th.

Stephan: So in developer news, TextMate 2 is now on GitHub, and so they've actually announced that it's going open source just recently on August 9th.

Louis: Womp womp womp.

Stephan: Womp womp womp. Allen Odgaard announced that they were going to take it and put the licenses, GPL3, and basically fork it for open source. So, what do you guys think? At first, when I first heard this, I was a little down. I figured it meant the end of TextMate as we know it.

Louis: So, first of all, let me preface this by saying I was never a big TextMate user. I did briefly use it, I think. But I’m pretty much a fully converted Vim user now, so I haven’t had a lot of interest in sort of GUI-based text editors. But I know that a lot of developers, and especially developers who work on Mac obviously, were really devoted TextMate fans that have been waiting for the release of TextMate 2 with baited breath for a very long time now. So, to some extent it was a project that we all knew was having a hard time and it should have been released… I don’t know when the initial stated release date for TextMate 2 was, but it’s definitely sometime in the past now. But, from what I’ve seen – I saw the news that it had been open sourced and put on GitHub on Twitter, and almost immediately I saw a comment from someone else who’s a TextMate user. It says, “Oh, I’m using the development version. It’s really great to start seeing new feature updates come through from the open source project.” So despite, maybe people’s initial sort of, “Oh my, God. He’s given up and it’s going to die a quiet death in the open source world,” it does appear to have gotten some uptake and people are working on it, so that’s great.

Louis: So, first of all, let me preface this by saying I was never a big TextMate user. I did briefly use it, I think. But I'm pretty much a fully converted Vim user now, so I haven't had a lot of interest in sort of GUI-based text editors. But I know that a lot of developers, and especially developers who work on Mac obviously, were really devoted TextMate fans that have been waiting for the release of TextMate 2 with baited breath for a very long time now. So, to some extent it was a project that we all knew was having a hard time and it should have been released… I don't know when the initial stated release date for TextMate 2 was, but it's definitely sometime in the past now. But, from what I've seen – I saw the news that it had been open sourced and put on GitHub on Twitter, and almost immediately I saw a comment from someone else who's a TextMate user. It says, “Oh, I'm using the development version. It's really great to start seeing new feature updates come through from the open source project.” So despite, maybe people's initial sort of, “Oh my, God. He's given up and it's going to die a quiet death in the open source world,” it does appear to have gotten some uptake and people are working on it, so that's great.

Stephan: Yeah. It’s good to see.

斯蒂芬：是的。 It's good to see.

Patrick: What does it mean for the people who bought it? I mean, how many of you use this application and did you buy it? Kevin?

Stephan: I purchased it, so I’m guessing the upgrades are going to be fine going forward.

Stephan: I purchased it, so I'm guessing the upgrades are going to be fine going forward.

Patrick: And free.

Stephan: Yeah, free. Well, I guess it’s a good sign. If they can keep up with the updates and adding features and things then I’ll still consider it worth my money.

Stephan: Yeah, free. Well, I guess it's a good sign. If they can keep up with the updates and adding features and things then I'll still consider it worth my money.

Kevin: It’ll be interesting to see. I think it’ll survive if they port it over to other platforms outside of just Mac. So, because of Sublime’s ubiquity, Windows, Linux, and Mac, it’s just good for that reason, right? You can buy one editor for all your operating systems. Whereas, TextMate has kind of just been, “Hey, Mac users, here’s this thing.” Now, everybody kind of has Sublime or Vim, it feels like to me. If TextMate, the open source project kind of helps it get to Windows or another system out there, I think it’ll have a good bit longer to live in the open source world.

Kevin: It'll be interesting to see. I think it'll survive if they port it over to other platforms outside of just Mac. So, because of Sublime's ubiquity, Windows, Linux, and Mac, it's just good for that reason, right? You can buy one editor for all your operating systems. Whereas, TextMate has kind of just been, “Hey, Mac users, here's this thing.” Now, everybody kind of has Sublime or Vim, it feels like to me. If TextMate, the open source project kind of helps it get to Windows or another system out there, I think it'll have a good bit longer to live in the open source world.

Patrick: But will there be a textmate.com and a textmate.org, one for the cloud and one for you to download?

Louis: That is a good question. Have any of you guys experimented with any of the various sort of online Cloud-based text editors? I don’t remember what the name of any of them were.

Louis: That is a good question. Have any of you guys experimented with any of the various sort of online Cloud-based text editors? I don't remember what the name of any of them were.

Kevin: Okay. I’ve tried some of them. I know Mozilla put out one, there’s a paid one called Cloud Nine, I believe, and yeah. It’s great if you maybe want to collaborate on some stuff. But really, version control does everything that an online editor would do for me as far as collaboration goes. So, I’m cool with turning on Vim in my terminal. I’ve never had this need to be like, “Oh, I’m on somebody else’s computer. I need my editor.”

凯文：好的。 I've tried some of them. I know Mozilla put out one, there's a paid one called Cloud Nine, I believe, and yeah. It's great if you maybe want to collaborate on some stuff. But really, version control does everything that an online editor would do for me as far as collaboration goes. So, I'm cool with turning on Vim in my terminal. I've never had this need to be like, “Oh, I'm on somebody else's computer. I need my editor.”

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Kevin: Code is code to me, to be honest.

Patrick: Code is code. Code is poetry. Before you guys laugh at me, I have to say that I’m not really a programmer, obviously. So, when I open code it’s mainly to edit other people’s code or install some sort of customization or something. So, before I switched over to Windows 7 a few months ago – a couple months ago – I was using Crimson Editor and Crimson Editor hasn’t been updated in a long time. So, when I switched over to Windows 7, I downloaded Notepad++, so that’s my code editor.

Patrick: Code is code. Code is poetry. Before you guys laugh at me, I have to say that I'm not really a programmer, obviously. So, when I open code it's mainly to edit other people's code or install some sort of customization or something. So, before I switched over to Windows 7 a few months ago – a couple months ago – I was using Crimson Editor and Crimson Editor hasn't been updated in a long time. So, when I switched over to Windows 7, I downloaded Notepad++, so that's my code editor.

Louis: To be fair, for the few times when I actually do develop on Windows, my home machine is a Windows machine, but I almost always develop using Vim in a Linux VM. But if I do have to open code files on the Windows desktop, Notepad++ is what I use, and I actually quite like it.

Stephan: Yeah, it’s my default text editor on Windows. Even for regular text, not just for code. Sublime on….

Stephan: Yeah, it's my default text editor on Windows. Even for regular text, not just for code. Sublime on….

Kevin: Notepad++ is good, but you should definitely try Sublime on Windows. It’s actually very good.

Kevin: Notepad++ is good, but you should definitely try Sublime on Windows. It's actually very good.

Patrick: Does Sublime cost money?

Louis: I’m sure it is. But it’s not free. Yeah, exactly. That’s what I was thinking.

Louis: I'm sure it is. But it's not free. 是的，完全正确。 That's what I was thinking.

Kevin: It is free. It is free, actually.

Louis: What?

路易斯：什么？

Kevin: Yeah, it’s free. Sublime is free to any platform. You just get a popup after 30 days that comes on once a day. It just says, “You want to buy it now?” You click “no”, and you just keep on. I know people that do this.

Kevin: Yeah, it's free. Sublime is free to any platform. You just get a popup after 30 days that comes on once a day. It just says, “You want to buy it now?” You click “no”, and you just keep on. I know people that do this.

Patrick: That’s funny. I just ignore that popup forever.

Patrick: That's funny. I just ignore that popup forever.

Louis: Wait a second. First of all, let’s check to see if this is actually, “Sublime text may be downloaded and evaluated for free, however a license must be purchased for continued use.” So, it’s not a suggestion. It’s in the license that if you want to use it continuously it’s a paid product. So, just putting that out there for anyone who’s listening, who might have been misled.

Louis: Wait a second. First of all, let's check to see if this is actually, “Sublime text may be downloaded and evaluated for free, however a license must be purchased for continued use.” So, it's not a suggestion. It's in the license that if you want to use it continuously it's a paid product. So, just putting that out there for anyone who's listening, who might have been misled.

Kevin: I didn’t say I do it myself. It’s free for 30 days.

Kevin: I didn't say I do it myself. It's free for 30 days.

Patrick: If they give you the option to click “no”, as Kevin says, then whose fault is it really? Don’t allow me to say “no”. No, I don’t know. Sorry. But for me, Notepad++ is it.

Patrick: If they give you the option to click “no”, as Kevin says, then whose fault is it really? Don't allow me to say “no”. No, I don't know. 抱歉。 But for me, Notepad++ is it.

Kevin: It’s a good editor.

Kevin: It's a good editor.

Louis: So, we’ll start the editor wars. Chime in, in the comments or send us an e-mail…

Louis: So, we'll start the editor wars. Chime in, in the comments or send us an e-mail…

Patrick: The editor wards. Yeah.

Patrick: The editor wards. 是的

Louis: …if you want to tell us what you favorite editor is and why, and why everyone else is wrong. We’d love to hear from you.

Louis: …if you want to tell us what you favorite editor is and why, and why everyone else is wrong. We'd love to hear from you.

Kevin: You’re going to have that one person that says Notepad. I’ve known some people who have done that. I’m like, “Why do you use notepad?”

Kevin: You're going to have that one person that says Notepad. I've known some people who have done that. I'm like, “Why do you use notepad?”

Louis: You can’t do anything in Notepad. But anyway, look.

Louis: You can't do anything in Notepad. But anyway, look.

Kevin: Anyways, yeah.

Louis: All right. We’ve had a lot of tangents in this episode. So, what do you say we go off on some more tangents as it is time for the host spotlights, which are basically tangents in an officiated form?

路易斯：好的。 We've had a lot of tangents in this episode. So, what do you say we go off on some more tangents as it is time for the host spotlights, which are basically tangents in an officiated form?

Patrick: Sure, I have mixed feelings on this one, because I actually have an on-topic spotlight.

Louis: Holy…

Patrick: Yeah, I know. Are you seated? But I also have an off-topic spotlight. So, I mean, I have that reputation.

Louis: Look, mine is way off-topic. So, if you’ve got your on-topic one maybe that will balance things out.

Louis: Look, mine is way off-topic. So, if you've got your on-topic one maybe that will balance things out.

Patrick: Okay. I have two, but I’m leaning toward the on-topic one, so I’m going to go with that. All right, so Brandon Eley has written for SitePoint before, was a moderator on the forums for a long time, and on his blog, brandoneley.com/blog he’s doing VEDA, which is a video every day in August. He’s doing 31 days to higher conversions, so higher conversions on your website, testing, analytics, and all of those good things. He’s really going into detail with a video series about it from his own experience, testing and running an e-commerce store. It’s very e-commerce themed, but I’m sure there are also a lot of lessons in there for anyone who’s trying to convert people, whether it be an email subscription list, or website registration form registration, etc. So, there are a lot of good lessons he’s put out already. Obviously, August is going to be about halfway done by the time we put this out, so there’s a whole other half a month coming as well. So, check that out if you’re interested in upping your conversions and just being more efficient in general with your website. That’s brandoneley.com/blog. Eley is E-L-E-Y. So, that’s my on- topic spotlight. Listen in silence. No laughter. No fun. That’s why I don’t do them very much. So, Louie, why don’t you go next to balance it out with something that’s more fun.

Patrick: Okay. I have two, but I'm leaning toward the on-topic one, so I'm going to go with that. All right, so Brandon Eley has written for SitePoint before, was a moderator on the forums for a long time, and on his blog, brandoneley.com/blog he's doing VEDA, which is a video every day in August. He's doing 31 days to higher conversions, so higher conversions on your website, testing, analytics, and all of those good things. He's really going into detail with a video series about it from his own experience, testing and running an e-commerce store. It's very e-commerce themed, but I'm sure there are also a lot of lessons in there for anyone who's trying to convert people, whether it be an email subscription list, or website registration form registration, etc. So, there are a lot of good lessons he's put out already. Obviously, August is going to be about halfway done by the time we put this out, so there's a whole other half a month coming as well. So, check that out if you're interested in upping your conversions and just being more efficient in general with your website. That's brandoneley.com/blog. Eley is ELEY. So, that's my on- topic spotlight. Listen in silence. No laughter. 没有什么好玩的。 That's why I don't do them very much. So, Louie, why don't you go next to balance it out with something that's more fun.

Louis: Sure, I just have a totally random link this week. It is a link that I found on a blog called “Twisted Sifter,” which links to a bunch of sort of national flags that were designed using the national foods of those countries for the Sydney International Food Festival. They’re just fantastic. I love them. I mean, they’re going to make you hungry, but they’ll also make you laugh. They’re great. The Italian flag is basil and spaghetti and cherry tomatoes. Then there’s an Indian one that looks like butter chicken at the top and then rice, and then some kind of maybe saag-based curry at the bottom. They really look like the flags, and they’re also awesome designs, really, really inspiring if you like to look at designs of different materials and if you really like pictures of food, because we all love pictures of food.

Louis: Sure, I just have a totally random link this week. It is a link that I found on a blog called “Twisted Sifter,” which links to a bunch of sort of national flags that were designed using the national foods of those countries for the Sydney International Food Festival. They're just fantastic. 我爱他们。 I mean, they're going to make you hungry, but they'll also make you laugh. 他们真棒。 The Italian flag is basil and spaghetti and cherry tomatoes. Then there's an Indian one that looks like butter chicken at the top and then rice, and then some kind of maybe saag-based curry at the bottom. They really look like the flags, and they're also awesome designs, really, really inspiring if you like to look at designs of different materials and if you really like pictures of food, because we all love pictures of food.

Patrick: So here’s the question, which one of these makes you want to eat it the most? Which one of these gives you the greatest appetite?

Patrick: So here's the question, which one of these makes you want to eat it the most? Which one of these gives you the greatest appetite?

Louis: Let me have a look. I’m going to have a quick…

Louis: Let me have a look. I'm going to have a quick…

Patrick: Okay, so for me, I’ve taken a look through them…

Patrick: Okay, so for me, I've taken a look through them…

Louis: Almost certainly India, because I really, really like curry.

Patrick: Okay.

Louis: Although the France which, to get the blue, white, and red of France’s flag, they’ve done blue cheese, white cheese, which I guess is a brie or Camembert, and then grapes, red grapes on the right hand side. So, the French one is also very appealing to me. But almost certainly India wins.

Louis: Although the France which, to get the blue, white, and red of France's flag, they've done blue cheese, white cheese, which I guess is a brie or Camembert, and then grapes, red grapes on the right hand side. So, the French one is also very appealing to me. But almost certainly India wins.

Patrick: Okay, so for me personally, I like tuna and rice so Japan is close. But I have to go with Italy, just because I like the pasta, I like tomatoes and basil, and it’s a good mix. The U.S. one is crap. Hot dogs, I don’t like hot dogs. So, not too interested in that, can’t be very patriotic in this case, unless they’re turkey hot dogs in which case I might have some. Stephen, what do you think?

Patrick: Okay, so for me personally, I like tuna and rice so Japan is close. But I have to go with Italy, just because I like the pasta, I like tomatoes and basil, and it's a good mix. The US one is crap. Hot dogs, I don't like hot dogs. So, not too interested in that, can't be very patriotic in this case, unless they're turkey hot dogs in which case I might have some. Stephen, what do you think?

Stephan: What do I think? I haven’t…

Stephan: What do I think? I haven't…

Patrick: Yeah. Did you take a look at it? You travel. You actually go around the world and eat foods at these countries.

帕特里克：是的。 Did you take a look at it? You travel. You actually go around the world and eat foods at these countries.

Stephan: Yeah. Let me look and see here. I kind of like the Greek flag. That’s kind of nice with the…

斯蒂芬：是的。 Let me look and see here. I kind of like the Greek flag. That's kind of nice with the…

Louis: It’s feta cheese.

Louis: It's feta cheese.

Stephan: Feta cheese and Kalamata olives. I like that. I kind of like them all. I’d probably all any of them. I wouldn’t have a problem with any of them. Is that wrong?

Stephan: Feta cheese and Kalamata olives. 我喜欢。 I kind of like them all. I'd probably all any of them. I wouldn't have a problem with any of them. 错了吗

Patrick: It depends.

Louis: No. It’s not wrong at all.

Louis: No. It's not wrong at all.

Patrick: What does your wife say?

Louis: It’s entirely correct. The correct approach to seeing – if all of these were laid out on a table in front of me, I would eat all of them.

Louis: It's entirely correct. The correct approach to seeing – if all of these were laid out on a table in front of me, I would eat all of them.

Patrick: All right, good spotlight.

Stephan: So I have a spotlight, another font related dilly-o. This is free font icons for web user interfaces.

Louis: Free icon fonts.

Kevin: Free icon, yeah, always, always good. So, there are just a slew of these. My favorite, the one I actually use is Icomoon? I guess icon moon, except they’re using the M as the N, when it’s really not an N, so it’s I-C-O moon.

Kevin: Free icon, yeah, always, always good. So, there are just a slew of these. My favorite, the one I actually use is Icomoon? I guess icon moon, except they're using the M as the N, when it's really not an N, so it's ICO moon.

Patrick: They’re trying to trick you, and they succeeded. I mean, really they succeeded to trick you because you had to explain it.

Patrick: They're trying to trick you, and they succeeded. I mean, really they succeeded to trick you because you had to explain it.

Kevin: Yeah, so outside of the names of these, you’ve just got to check them out. They’re really cool. I love using fonts as icons now whenever I do front-end development. You don’t have to specify size. You just make a vector, and if you want it bigger you make it bigger. It’s much better than processing an image all the time, over and over and over again.

Kevin: Yeah, so outside of the names of these, you've just got to check them out. They're really cool. I love using fonts as icons now whenever I do front-end development. You don't have to specify size. You just make a vector, and if you want it bigger you make it bigger. It's much better than processing an image all the time, over and over and over again.

Stephan: I like the ones from Font Awesome. Those are pretty good- looking, just simple, very nice.

Patrick: Yeah, those would look good in an application.

Louis: Yeah. I think it’s a really good trend, especially if you use a lot of icons and you can all pack it into one fairly small font file. It can be pretty nice for your up-front performance, although I guess a well-compressed sprite map would probably be smaller than the font file. But the font file, as Kevin said, gives you that advantage of being able to scale to various sizes and especially to various pixel densities, is rapidly becoming an issue that web designers have to contend with. With a wide variety of pixel widths on mobile and now with some new high pixel density laptops from Apple that adds yet another layer of complexity for web designers. Icon fonts are definitely one way of addressing that.

路易斯：是的。 I think it's a really good trend, especially if you use a lot of icons and you can all pack it into one fairly small font file. It can be pretty nice for your up-front performance, although I guess a well-compressed sprite map would probably be smaller than the font file. But the font file, as Kevin said, gives you that advantage of being able to scale to various sizes and especially to various pixel densities, is rapidly becoming an issue that web designers have to contend with. With a wide variety of pixel widths on mobile and now with some new high pixel density laptops from Apple that adds yet another layer of complexity for web designers. Icon fonts are definitely one way of addressing that.

Kevin: Then you can change colors, everything.

Louis: Yeah, exactly.

Kevin: So anything you do with a font, like text shadows, all of it. So, I love using it.

Louis: That’s great.

路易斯：太好了。

Kevin: Anyway, so that’s my spotlight.

Kevin: Anyway, so that's my spotlight.

Stephan: Finally me. I have a blog opinion post by Errol Morris, who is a writer and a filmmaker and he’s on the New York Times. He’s talking about typography and how believable a sentence is depending on the font that it’s written in. So, he did a whole kind of sly study by having people take a quiz and then got some results – and I don’t want to give it all away. But it’s just interesting what the results of the study were.

Stephan: Finally me. I have a blog opinion post by Errol Morris, who is a writer and a filmmaker and he's on the New York Times. He's talking about typography and how believable a sentence is depending on the font that it's written in. So, he did a whole kind of sly study by having people take a quiz and then got some results – and I don't want to give it all away. But it's just interesting what the results of the study were.

Patrick: So people didn’t trust Comic Sans, right?

Patrick: So people didn't trust Comic Sans, right?

Stephan: Pretty much.

Patrick: That’s got to be the way the comment that ends up here. I haven’t even read it, but I’m just guessing.

Patrick: That's got to be the way the comment that ends up here. I haven't even read it, but I'm just guessing.

Stephan: Yeah, he even goes into things like is it a Sans-Serif font or just a Serif font. So, it’s just a good read. It’s kind of long and it’s just part one of it. But I think it’s interesting and it’s something to keep in mind when you’re writing and trying to be taken seriously.

Stephan: Yeah, he even goes into things like is it a Sans-Serif font or just a Serif font. So, it's just a good read. It's kind of long and it's just part one of it. But I think it's interesting and it's something to keep in mind when you're writing and trying to be taken seriously.

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Patrick: This is really interesting and something that politicians should keep in mind.

Stephan: Yeah, don’t do your political ad in Comic Sans.

Stephan: Yeah, don't do your political ad in Comic Sans.

Patrick: That’s right, exactly. That is really interesting, and if you want to convince people of something and appear legitimate this is something to heed. I do find this interesting. Good spotlight.

Patrick: That's right, exactly. That is really interesting, and if you want to convince people of something and appear legitimate this is something to heed. I do find this interesting. Good spotlight.

Louis: Yeah, thanks. I’m definitely going to have a read of this whole thing. It’s a pretty long post, but definitely interesting.

Louis: Yeah, thanks. I'm definitely going to have a read of this whole thing. It's a pretty long post, but definitely interesting.

Kevin: It’d be interesting to do. Like if you did the last election, I bet Obama had made 27 websites that said support McCain, but they were all in Comic Sans so nobody voted for him. So, it wasn’t even like mud slapping. It was just like, “Hey, support this guy, but he uses Comic Sans.”

Kevin: It'd be interesting to do. Like if you did the last election, I bet Obama had made 27 websites that said support McCain, but they were all in Comic Sans so nobody voted for him. So, it wasn't even like mud slapping. It was just like, “Hey, support this guy, but he uses Comic Sans.”

Stephan: We’re not going to support him.

Stephan: We're not going to support him.

Louis: Yeah, I mean you would have lost that on the crucial designer vote there.

Patrick: Yeah the geek-vote. It’s time to go around the table.

Patrick: Yeah the geek-vote. It's time to go around the table.

Louis: It is.

路易斯：是的。

Kevin: So, I am Kevin Dees and you can find me at kevindees.cc and @KevinDees on Twitter.

Patrick: I’m Patrick O’Keefe, the iFroggy network. I blog at managingcommunities.com, on Twitter @ifroggy I-F-R-O-G-G-Y

Patrick: I'm Patrick O'Keefe, the iFroggy network. I blog at managingcommunities.com , on Twitter @ifroggy IFROGGY

Stephan: I’m Stephan Segraves. You can find me at badice.com and on Twitter @SSegraves.

Stephan: I'm Stephan Segraves. You can find me at badice.com and on Twitter @SSegraves .

Louis: I’m Louis Simoneau. You can find me on Twitter @rssaddict. You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom. That’s sitepoint D-O-T-C-O-M. You can go to Sitepoint.com/podcast to keep up with the show. You’ll see all of our latest episodes. You can leave a comment and you can subscribe to the RSS feed there. You can find us on iTunes, of course, and you can send us an e-mail, podcast@sitepoint.com. We’d love to hear what you think. All right. Well, I will see you all next week. Thanks for listening and bye for now.

Louis: I'm Louis Simoneau. You can find me on Twitter @rssaddict . You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom . That's sitepoint DOTCOM. You can go to Sitepoint.com/podcast to keep up with the show. You'll see all of our latest episodes. You can leave a comment and you can subscribe to the RSS feed there. You can find us on iTunes, of course, and you can send us an e-mail, podcast@sitepoint.com . We'd love to hear what you think. 行。 Well, I will see you all next week. Thanks for listening and bye for now.

Audio Transcription by SpeechPad.

通过SpeechPad进行音频转录。

Produced by Karn Broad.

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Mike Mella的主题音乐。

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

谢谢收听！欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-175-typography/

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SitePoint Podcast＃175：版式

Episode 175 ofThe SitePoint Podcastis now available! This week we have the full panel, Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy) and Kevin Dees (@kevinde...
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