SitePoint Podcast＃178：Web设计过程和创造力

Episode 178 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week our regular interview host Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict) interviews Giovanni Difeterici (@giodif) about his new book for SitePoint, The Web Designer’s Roadmap.

SitePoint Podcast的第178集现已发布！ 这一周我们的定期访谈主持人路易斯西莫努( @rssaddict )采访乔瓦尼Difeterici( @giodif )关于他的SitePoint新书， 网页设计师的路线图 。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #178: Web Design Process and Creativity with Giovanni Difeterici (MP3, 26:02, 25MB)

  SitePoint Podcast＃178：Giovanni Difeterici的Web设计过程和创造力 (MP3，26:02，25MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Louis and Giovanni talk about what the book covers, and how Giovanni interviewed a number of great designers to get a wide breadth of views and methods of working.

Louis和Giovanni讨论了本书的内容，以及Giovanni如何采访了许多伟大的设计师，以获取广泛的观点和工作方法。

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/178.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/178上显示的参考链接的完整列表。

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Louis: Hello and welcome to another episode of the SitePoint podcast. This week on the show I have an interview with the author of SitePoint’s latest book, “The Web Designer’s Roadmap,” Giovanni Difeterici. Hi and welcome to the show, Giovanni.

路易斯：您好，欢迎收看SitePoint播客的另一集。 在本周的展览中，我接受了SitePoint最新著作“网络设计师的路线图”的作者Giovanni Difeterici的采访。 嗨，欢迎莅临Giovanni的演出。

Giovanni: Hey, how are you, nice to meet you.

乔瓦尼：嘿，你好，很高兴认识你。

Louis: I’m very well, how are you?

路易斯：我很好，你好吗？

Giovanni: Great, great, we’ve been having a lot of storms here lately but it’s been a good time to work.

乔万尼：太好了，太好了，最近我们在这里遇到了很多风暴，但这是工作的好时机。

Louis: That’s good. I wanted to have you on the show mostly because you have a book that just came out and I wanted to talk about it a bit because it’s a little bit different from a lot of books that’s SitePoint’s had in the past and I thought there’d be a lot of material for conversation there.

路易斯：很好。 我之所以想在节目中露面，主要是因为有一本书刚出版，我想谈一谈，因为它与SitePoint过去的很多书有些不同，我认为在那里进行对话的材料很多。

Giovanni: Sure.

乔凡尼：当然。

Louis: So the book is called the Web Designer’s Roadmap. Do you want to just explain a little bit about what the title means and what people can expect to find in the book?

路易斯：所以这本书叫做《网页设计师的路线图》。 您是否只想稍微解释一下标题的含义以及人们期望在书中找到的内容？

Giovanni: Sure, we went back and forth about the title a number of times and settled on the Web Designer’s Roadmap because the book is about all the way up to the point right before you do your markup, everything from discovery to mockups. And I like to think of it as two things, as the practical, procedural steps that you take to get something done so you can communicate effectively with clients and with other people that you’re working on, but at the exact same time you’re doing this creative process whereby you’re trying to invent interesting ways of communicating ideas and interactions and all of those things. So there’s these two simultaneous processes. I wanted to write a book that talked about both of those things and how they work together, so that’s really what the book is about.

Giovanni：当然，我们多次来回讨论标题，并确定了Web Designer的路线图，因为这本书一直到您做标记之前一直到要点，从发现到模型制作都如此。 我想将其视为两件事情，即完成某件事所需采取的实际，程序性步骤，以便您可以与客户和您正在工作的其他人进行有效的沟通，但同时您也可以重新进行这个创造性的过程，从而您尝试发明有趣的方式来交流思想和互动以及所有这些东西。 因此，存在两个同时进行的过程。 我想写一本书，同时讨论这两种事物以及它们如何协同工作，因此这才是真正的书。

Louis: Right, I remember talking with some of the people in the SitePoint office while the book was in development, it was just called the Process Book, and I guess it didn’t have a title at that point.

路易斯：是的，我记得在本书编写过程中与SitePoint办公室的一些人交谈过，它只是被称为《过程手册》，我想那时候还没有标题。

Giovanni: No, well like I said, it really evolved kind of like what the book was about evolved as we worked on it. I think the first working title was like “Digital Inspiration” or something like that, and it became much more a deeper sort of book about ideas, and as that changed, the title went through a few iterations and eventually settled on the Web Designer’s Roadmap.

乔凡尼：不，就像我说的那样，它的发展确实像我们在编写本书时所讲述的那样。 我认为第一个可用的标题是“ Digital Inspiration”(数字灵感)之类的东西，它成为一本关于思想的更深层次的书，并且随着这种变化，标题经历了几次迭代并最终确定在Web Designer的路线图中。

Louis: Right. We’ll talk a bit more about the book itself later, but maybe for the moment we can just start off by talking about what are those key elements of process and how do you view the way that you do design.

路易斯：对。 稍后，我们将进一步讨论这本书本身，但是也许目前我们可以从讨论过程的那些关键要素以及如何看待设计方式开始。

Giovanni: I think that it breaks into two sort of broad phases. The first of which is an information gathering phase, it’s the pre-design phase, and that has everything to do from discovery where you’re learning about your client and their competitors in the industry and the information and related to it, to putting together content with the client, to gathering design materials. So everything from producing materials that you use to communicate, design ideas with a client like mood boards, and some of the stuff that Samantha Warren is bringing in, she has style tiles. So we’ve started using style tiles and I really think it’s an excellent way of approaching system design as opposed to mockups.

乔凡尼：我认为它分为两个大致阶段。 第一个阶段是信息收集阶段，这是预设计阶段，并且从发现您要了解客户及其行业竞争对手以及与之相关的信息到组装在一起的所有工作，满足客户需求，收集设计材料。 因此，从制作可用于交流的材料，与客户(例如情绪板)设计构想，以及萨曼莎·沃伦(Samantha Warren)带来的一些东西，她都有风格瓷砖。 因此，我们已经开始使用样式拼贴，我真的认为这是一种进行系统设计而不是使用实体模型的绝佳方法。

Louis: Sure. I’m not familiar with style tiles, do you want to describe a little bit what is meant by that?

路易斯：当然。 我不熟悉样式图块，您是否想稍微描述一下这是什么意思？

Giovanni: Sure, yeah, so first off all, it’s Samantha Warren’s idea, not mine, so props to her for kind of pushing that in the industry. But basically it’s sort of a marriage of a formal Photoshop mockup and a mood board. Instead of designing a page layout that incorporates multiple elements like the button treatments and text treatments and specific design elements that will work through it, it’s a formal document that is structured so that it shows all of those elements without actually being a specific layout design.

乔瓦尼：是的，首先，这是萨曼莎·沃伦(Samantha Warren)的主意，而不是我的主意，因此为她提供了推动行业发展的支撑。 但基本上，这有点像正式的Photoshop样机和情绪板的结合。 它不是设计一个包含多个元素的页面布局，例如按钮处理和文本处理以及将通过其工作的特定设计元素，而是一个结构化的正式文档，它可以显示所有这些元素，而实际上并不是特定的布局设计。

So it kind of takes the idea of something like a mood board where you’re just sort of showing people design ideas and directions and the tone of things and different elements in a completely unstructured way, and having a mockup which is completely structured, incorporates content and is an actual quote unquote pixel perfect representation of what a page will actually look like, and it takes the good qualities from both of those things and it allows you to create a system for designing pages in the future. And I really, really think it’s a great way of approaching something like web design.

因此，这有点像情绪板之类的想法，您只是在某种程度上以完全非结构化的方式向人们展示设计理念和方向以及事物和不同元素的语气，并包含一个完全结构化的模型内容，是页面实际外观的真实报价，不引用像素的完美表示，它兼具了这两方面的优良品质，并允许您创建将来用于设计页面的系统。 而且我真的非常认为这是进行网页设计之类的好方法。

So traditionally you might do a homepage mockup and a generic subpage and then some specialty pages like forms or some specific functionality, and you use those and then if you have other pages or somebody comes after you has pages, they would extrapolate from those, they would pull different elements out of them or maybe when the design is marked up, it’s done as specific template pieces or something like that. So you’re taking these elements and you’re pulling them out to make new pages.

因此，按照惯例，您可能会先做一个首页模型和一个通用子页面，然后再做一些特殊页面(如表单或某些特定功能)，然后使用它们，然后如果您有其他页面，或者有人在拥有页面之后出现，它们会从中推断出来，会从其中拉出不同的元素，或者当标记了设计时，它会作为特定的模板或类似的东西完成。 因此，您正在使用这些元素，并且将它们拉出来以制作新页面。

Well, style tile is basically take that idea and put it at the forefront, that there are all these little elements, text treatments, button treatments, interactive elements, tone, all of that stuff, and there’s a formal structure document that is consistent from project to project that explains how all those things are used.

好吧，样式拼贴基本上就是将这个想法放在首位，所有这些小元素，文本处理，按钮处理，交互元素，音调，所有这些东西，还有一个正式结构文档与解释如何使用所有这些东西的项目。

Louis: Right. And is the idea in the step of gathering feedback for example, either from either team members or from clients, to sort of divorce the treatment of any individual item or general feeling or tone from questions of layout or content or page structure and really try and focus the feedback on the one item at hand?

路易斯：对。 在收集例如来自团队成员或客户的反馈的步骤中，这种想法是与布局，内容或页面结构问题离婚对待任何单个项目或总体感觉或语调的想法，并真正尝试将反馈集中在手头的一项上？

Giovanni: Yeah, I think all the predesigned stuff, for me, is you’re creating documents and visual representations of ideas so that you can effectively communicate with other people. And yeah, I think that you want to divorce design, tone and content choices from specific page layouts. I think that early on, you want to get all the pieces right and the page layout is secondary, I think that a lot of designers tend to focus on laying out webpages above all else. I think that that’s a very small part of what it takes to actually be a web designer.

乔凡尼：是的，对于我来说，我认为所有预先设计的内容都是您在创建文档和想法的视觉表示，以便您可以与其他人有效地进行交流。 是的，我想您希望将特定页面布局中的设计，基调和内容选择与我们分开。 我认为，一开始，您希望所有组件都正确无误，页面布局是次要的，我认为许多设计师倾向于将网页放在其他所有东西之上。 我认为这只是实际成为一名网页设计师所需的很小一部分。

In my mind, I’ve done a bunch of interviews with people, and talking to Daniel Burka especially, and a couple of other people, but the idea that a web designer or that a designer in general does more than just make things look pretty, you’re basically a product designer. So every aspect of design from communication to tone to the actual product itself, and generally the product is a website, all of those things are really important, the structure of the website, the architecture of it, all of those things are as important as the visual elements.

在我看来，我已经进行了很多人访谈，尤其是与Daniel Burka以及其他几个人交谈，但是我认为Web设计师或一般设计师所做的不仅仅是使事情看起来更漂亮。 ，您基本上是产品设计师。 因此，从沟通到音调再到实际产品本身的设计的各个方面，通常是一个网站，所有这些内容都非常重要，网站的结构，网站的架构以及所有这些内容都非常重要视觉元素。

And so yeah, I think that a lot of that communication is that so everyone gets on the same page about what it is that you’re actually designing. Because the page layout and the prettiness of it is completely secondary to the actual product itself.

是的，我认为沟通的主要内容是，每个人都在同一页面上了解您实际设计的内容。 因为页面的布局和美感完全不属于实际产品本身。

Louis: Right. Okay so that’s what you were referring to as the early, first phase, discovery, communication, gathering information that you need in order to make informed design choices. Where would you usually go from there?

路易斯：对。 好的，这就是您所说的早期，第一阶段，发现，交流，收集所需信息以便做出明智的设计选择。 您通常从那里去哪里？

Giovanni: To me, once all of those decisions have been made, once there’s a clear understanding of what it is you are actually trying to design, then you go into the formal design process where you can really start thinking about page layout and interactions and things like that, which are equally important because once you have your message, you have to be able to communicate that message properly. So I think thinking about the design process in that way, you have your deciding what your message is, and then figuring out how to communicate that message properly. So the second sort of general, large phase is actually design the stuff.

乔凡尼(Giovanni)：对我来说，一旦做出所有这些决定，一旦对实际要设计的内容有了清晰的了解，便进入了正式的设计过程，在那里您可以真正开始思考页面布局和交互以及这样的事情同样重要，因为一旦您收到消息，就必须能够正确传达该消息。 因此，我认为以这种方式考虑设计过程，您可以确定消息的含义，然后弄清楚如何正确传达消息。 因此，第二种一般性的大型阶段实际上是设计内容。

Louis: Right. That’s interesting because it’s sort of, I’m not a designer, I’m a developer, it’s sort of the opposite direction from what I would think to do if I were sitting about, trying to design something, which is that I would sort of start with putting things on a page, then gradually working towards the detail, rather than getting all the detail hammered out and then assemble those finely crafted pieces into a design.

路易斯：对。 这很有趣，因为它有点像，我不是设计师，我是开发人员，这与我坐在那里尝试设计某些东西时会想到的方向相反。首先是将内容放到页面上，然后逐步处理细节，而不是敲定所有细节，然后将这些精美的作品组装成设计。

Giovanni: Well, it’s actually like, in the early phases when I talk about figuring everything out, it has more to do with figuring out not all of the necessary specific little design elements, but I mean the product itself, what is the content, what is it that you’re trying to communicate, what are the goals of the website. All of those big, fundamental questions, you create a bunch of things just so you can communicate back and forth with the client and with each other about figuring out all that kind of stuff.

乔凡尼：嗯，实际上，就像在早期阶段我要弄清楚所有东西时，它更多地与弄清并非所有必要的特定小设计元素有关，但是我的意思是产品本身，内容是什么，您要传达的是什么，网站的目标是什么。 所有这些重大的基本问题，您都会创建一堆东西，以便您可以与客户之间以及彼此之间就解决所有这类问题进行交流。

And so, at least for me, design is about really understanding all of those key elements, the message and the content, and the intent of the website and its purpose, and what are its goals and objectives. Those things are fundamental in terms of gathering information about what the site is actually about. Then the second phase is about figuring out how to effectively communicate all of those things.

因此，至少对我而言，设计是要真正理解所有这些关键要素，消息和内容，网站的意图及其目的以及目的和目标。 从收集有关网站实际内容的信息方面来说，这些都是最基本的。 然后第二阶段是弄清楚如何有效地传达所有这些东西。

So I think that, I do development too, I would say 30% of my time is spent developing, but I think it’s important to figure out, even with development it’s important to know what it is that you’re making. Those are the kinds of questions that I think are key to answering. I don’t think it’s too different. The processes are similar it’s just that the goals of those processes are slightly different, so there are some differences.

因此，我认为我也从事开发工作，我会说我有30％的时间都花在了开发上，但我认为弄清这一点很重要，即使开发也很重要，要知道自己在做什么。 我认为这些是回答问题的关键。 我认为这没什么不同。 这些过程相似，只是这些过程的目标略有不同，因此存在一些差异。

Louis: Right, so you were talking a little bit there about the idea of collecting information, figuring out what the content needs to be and how it needs to communicate with the users. At what stage does user research or early prototype, user testing fit into your process?

路易斯：对，所以您在这里谈论了有关收集信息的想法，弄清楚内容的内容以及与用户进行通信的方式。 用户研究或早期原型，用户测试在哪个阶段适合您的过程？

Giovanni: Well, I kind of believe that you want to get things out as quickly as possible, but I accept the notion that whenever we’re designing things, we initially have to make a lot of assumptions what we think users are going to want and do, and then sort of after the fact, no matter how you approach it, you’re going to have to test those assumptions.

乔瓦尼：嗯，我有点相信您想尽快解决问题，但是我接受这样的观念，即无论何时我们在设计事物时，我们最初都必须做出很多假设，即我们认为用户想要的东西然后做到这一点，然后再解决，无论您如何处理，都必须检验这些假设。

Honestly, in a very practical way, it has a lot to do with whether or not your budget allows that sort of thing. I think that most times for even small shops, medium shops and sometimes large shops, there’s not a lot of user testing before you actually launch something. I think sometimes you have to make a lot of assumptions, build it and then see whether or not those assumptions are correct.

老实说，以一种非常实用的方式，它与您的预算是否允许这种事情有很大关系。 我认为大多数时候，即使是小型商店，中型商店，有时甚至是大型商店，在您实际推出某些产品之前也没有太多的用户测试。 我认为有时您必须做出很多假设，建立它，然后查看这些假设是否正确。

So with the book, there’s not a lot of discussion talked about testing within this specific process because I think that for most people, the testing process is going to happen once there’s something built that people can actually use. And I think that’s okay, because in my opinion every website is a living document, and just because you “finish it”, it’s not done, it’s just the first iteration of it. So ideally you’d even be testing content, things like that, as soon as possible, but I don’t think most people actually get that opportunity.

因此，在本书中，关于这个特定过程中的测试，没有太多讨论，因为我认为对于大多数人来说，一旦构建了一些可以实际使用的东西，测试过程就会发生。 而且我认为这还可以，因为我认为每个网站都是实时文档，并且仅因为您“完成”它并没有完成，而是它的第一次迭代。 因此，理想情况下，您甚至应该尽快测试诸如此类的内容，但我认为大多数人实际上并没有获得这种机会。

So the way I try to look at it is from a practical standpoint. Most designers, freelancers, people like that, will generally have to make something, complete their design, get it out on the web, and then try to document how people use it from then on. This process can be repeated iteratively to improve on those things.

因此，我尝试从实际角度看待它。 大多数设计师，自由职业者，诸如此类的人，通常将不得不做一些事情，完成他们的设计，将其发布到网络上，然后试图记录人们从那时起如何使用它。 可以迭代重复此过程以改进这些方面。

Louis: Right. Another thing I wanted to touch on, this is shifting gears a little bit here, but in recent years, obviously the work of web designers has changed considerably because we need to spend a lot more time thinking about the mobile user experience, and I was curious to know what your views are with respect to how that fits into your process and what your approach is when working on something that either needs to have a mobile component or needs to be a responsive design.

路易斯：对。 我想谈谈的另一件事是，这里需要进行一些调整，但是近年来，显然，Web设计师的工作已发生了很大变化，因为我们需要花更多时间思考移动用户的体验，好奇地想知道您对如何适合您的流程的看法以及在处理需要具有移动组件或需要响应式设计的内容时所采取的方法。

Giovanni: Well, my basic opinion is that everything needs to be responsive or mobile. If you look at statistics, more and more people are viewing websites from some sort of mobile device, be it a tablet or a phone, and most designs intended for screens don’t function that well on smaller devices, so I personally believe that these days most websites need to be responsive. But there are some cases where there needs to be some sort of mobile site as opposed to a responsive site.

乔瓦尼：嗯，我的基本观点是，一切都必须是响应式的或移动的。 如果您查看统计数据，那么越来越多的人正在通过某种移动设备(例如平板电脑或手机)浏览网站，并且大多数用于屏幕的设计在较小的设备上都无法正常运行，因此我个人认为这些大多数网站需要响应的日子。 但是在某些情况下，需要使用某种移动网站而不是响应网站。

I work at a web shop called Period-Three, and the way that we work is to basically assume that every website, it’s just part of our client services process, every website is responsive now. And so we always try to consider that when designing. The way that I design is to sort of design the full screen layout, but then when I mark it up, I start with the mobile design and kind of work up.

我在一家名为Period-Three的网上商店工作，我们的工作方式是基本上假设每个网站只是我们客户服务流程的一部分，每个网站现在都响应Swift。 因此，我们在设计时总是尝试考虑这一点。 我设计的方式是对全屏布局进行设计，但是当我对其进行标记时，我将从移动设计和类似的工作入手。

We use men with media queries so I always start with the mobile site and work it up. But I try to think about everything so that you’re never dropping content out for smaller screens or any of that kind of stuff, the only things that gets dropped out for smaller devices is ancillary graphics and things like that, because I think that any content that belongs on a full screen site belongs on the mobile site as well.

我们会用男性来进行媒体查询，因此我总是从移动网站开始并逐步完善。 但是我会尝试考虑所有问题，以便您永远不会为较小的屏幕或任何此类内容丢弃内容，对于较小的设备，唯一会丢失的内容是辅助图形等，因为我认为属于全屏网站的内容也属于移动网站。

I think that some people are still at that point where they design for the desktop and then they think about mobile afterwards. It’s like something they tack on. But in my opinion, it can’t be something that you tack on, it has to be an integral part of your process, from the very beginning you have to acknowledge that there needs to be a mobile component and it’s very likely going to be a responsive design.

我认为有些人仍在为台式机设计，然后又考虑移动。 就像他们坚持的那样。 但是我认为，这不是您要坚持的事情，它必须是您流程中不可或缺的一部分，从一开始就必须承认需要有一个移动组件，并且很有可能响应式设计。

But again, when it comes to responsive, a lot of considerations you have to make are technical and they have to do with layout. And I think that when you’re in that first phase and you’re discovering exactly what it is that you’re designing and what its intended purpose is and who its intended audience is, and what the message is, those technical considerations aren’t as important in that early phase.

但是同样，当涉及到响应时，您需要做的很多考虑都是技术性的，它们与布局有关。 我认为，当您处于第一个阶段时，您会确切地发现您正在设计的内容是什么，其目的是什么，目标受众是谁，信息是什么，这些技术上的考虑就没有了。在早期阶段同样重要。

But it really becomes very, very important when you actually start designing the layout of the page, because knowing your markup and how it’s going to flow, and how break points are going to affect it, is actually very important. But it’s not as important from the early discovery phase, except in the sense that you have to know what it is you’re designing and who you’re designing for and how it’ll be used, because if you have a website that will be used primarily on mobile devices, then that becomes a huge, huge consideration even very, very early on.

但是，当您真正开始设计页面布局时，它确实变得非常非常重要，因为了解您的标记以及标记的流动方式以及断点将如何影响标记实际上是非常重要的。 但这从早期发现阶段开始就没有那么重要了，除了在某种意义上说，您必须知道它在设计什么，您在为谁设计以及如何使用它，因为如果您有一个网站可以主要用于移动设备上，因此即使在很早的时候，这也成为了巨大的考虑。

Louis: Right. And do you find that this approach of thinking about the mobile experience or the responsiveness of the content earlier on in the design phase rather than tacking it on after the fact, does that result in design decisions, one way or another that affect the final product that you end up with even for the desktop?

路易斯：对。 您是否发现这种在设计阶段较早地考虑移动体验或内容响应性而不是事后加以考虑的方法会导致设计决策以某种方式影响最终产品最终甚至在台式机上都无法使用？

For example, do you find that you’ll omit pieces of content from pages or thinking about what’s going to go on this page, the fact that you’re thinking about the mobile experience early on means that you sort of have to pare that down and make your page a little more focused than you would if you thought you had all the space in the world.

例如，您是否发现自己会忽略页面中的某些内容，或者是否会考虑该页面上的内容，而事实上，您早就在考虑移动体验，这意味着您必须将其削减一些并使您的页面比您认为自己拥有世界上所有空间的页面更加集中。

Giovanni: Yeah, honestly, I’m of the opinion that if you have some sort of desktop experience that is just terrible for mobile then it might mean that your considerations for the desktop experience are actually maybe not as focused as they could be. So yeah, I do think that it makes a great deal of difference. I think it has affected people aesthetically just because there’s sort of this belief that one page, one topic. I don’t necessarily agree with that but I do think that there’s sort of a trend now of reducing the content on pages so that it is appropriate for mobile. But it’s tough, we’re at a very tough position right now. Honestly, no one is very good at this, everything is a little wonky, even some sort of responsive design patterns feel a little contrived to me. They can be a little hard to understand for people who have approached it for the first time.

乔凡尼：是的，老实说，我认为，如果您拥有某种对移动设备来说很糟糕的桌面体验，那么这可能意味着您对桌面体验的考虑实际上可能没有那么集中。 是的，我确实认为这有很大的不同。 我认为它从美学上影响了人们，仅仅是因为有人认为一页一页是一个主题。 我不一定同意这一点，但我确实认为，现在存在一种趋势，即减少页面上的内容，使其适合移动设备。 但这很艰难，我们现在处于非常艰难的位置。 坦率地说，没有人对此非常擅长，一切都有些古怪，甚至某种响应式设计模式对我来说都有些许误解。 对于初次接触它的人来说，可能有些难以理解。

But it’s just kind of tough to be in a position right now because we’re still trying to figure out exactly what it means to design for multiple screens. And now we have a high-pixel density monitors that are even bigger, the disparity between mobile and large desktop is so incredibly massive now that yeah, it presents these problems. But I think that really considering the mobile experience early on will affect your decisions for desktop design, definitely.

但是现在要处于某个位置有点困难，因为我们仍在努力弄清楚为多屏设计意味着什么。 现在我们有了一个更大的高像素密度显示器，移动和大型台式机之间的差异是如此之大，以至于出现了这些问题。 但是，我认为，尽早考虑移动体验确实会影响您的桌面设计决策。

Louis: I’m going to shift gears again and maybe ask you a few questions about the book. You did briefly mention that you did a bunch of interviews for this book and I thought that was interesting because it’s not something that you hear about really frequently with regards to web design books, a lot of times it’s just people sort of writing about what their opinions are with regards to design or what their process is or some basic theory about design practice. But in your case, you went out and talked to a lot of people to gather information about how they approach design.

路易斯：我将再次换档，也许会问你一些关于这本书的问题。 您确实提到过，您对这本书进行了大量采访，我认为这很有趣，因为您并不是经常听到有关网页设计书籍的消息，很多时候只是人们在写些关于他们的内容的文章。意见是关于设计或其过程是什么，还是关于设计实践的一些基本理论。 但是在您的情况下，您出去了并与很多人进行了交谈，以收集有关他们如何进行设计的信息。

Giovanni: Like I said, I wanted this to be a book about ideas, I wanted it to be not only about the practical design process, but also the creative process. I have my opinions about how that should work and what works for me, but I have a particular skill set and I think a lot of other people have very different skill sets, and their approach to things can be wildly different from mine, but just as effective.

乔凡尼：就像我说的，我希望这是一本有关创意的书，我希望它不仅涉及实际的设计过程，而且还涉及创造性的过程。 对于如何工作以及对我有用，我有自己的看法，但是我拥有特殊的技能，我认为许多其他人的技能也非常不同，他们对待事物的方法可能与我的完全不同。一样有效。

So what I decided to do was to have a set of questions that I could pose to a bunch of different people who work either differently than I do, or in different capacities from what I do. And so I did about a dozen interviews, I just did video interviews with a bunch of people, some of whom are mobile designers exclusively, Shaun Inman, he does games. I spoke to Don Norman, who is the author of The Design of Everyday Things, and a bunch of other incredible books.

因此，我决定要做的是向一群不同的人提出一系列问题，这些人的工作方式与我不同，或者与我的工作能力不同。 因此，我进行了大约十二次采访，我只是对一群人进行了视频采访，其中一些人完全是移动设计师，Shaun Inman是他玩游戏。 我与《每日事物的设计》一书的作者唐·诺曼(Don Norman)以及其他许多令人难以置信的书籍进行了交谈。

He basically is a consultant now for product design, he doesn’t really have anything to do with web design these days. His partner, Jakob Nielsen, really deals with web design but I wanted to talk to somebody who doesn’t specifically deal with web design, that’s why I spoke to Shaun Inman about his game design stuff. These things are all related, but it really pays to take a look from different perspectives.

他现在基本上是产品设计的顾问，如今他与网页设计无关。 他的合伙人Jakob Nielsen确实从事网页设计，但是我想和一个不专门从事网页设计的人交谈，这就是为什么我与Shaun Inman谈论他的游戏设计问题。 这些都是相关的，但从不同的角度来看确实值得。

So I wanted to talk to all these people because I wanted their ideas to either inform my ideas or be a counterpoint to it, and I wanted to make sure that this book was not just filled with my opinion, that it was filled with a lot of ideas and a lot of other opinions, and I wanted to kind of show how all of these ideas kind of work together.

所以我想与所有这些人交谈，因为我希望他们的想法可以传达我的想法或与之相对，并且我想确保这本书不仅充满了我的观点，而且还包含了很多内容。想法和许多其他观点，我想展示所有这些想法如何协同工作。

So I thought it was really important to get other people’s voices in there. I have very strong opinions about how I think things should be done, but doing these interviews really changed some of those ideas and I thought that was great and I wanted that same experience for other people.

因此，我认为让其他人的声音在那里非常重要。 对于如何处理事情，我有很强烈的意见，但是进行这些采访确实改变了其中的一些想法，我认为那很棒，并且我希望其他人也能获得同样的经验。

Louis: Right. Can you give an example of something, maybe an answer that surprised you or something that changed your thinking in regards to a specific question?

路易斯：对。 您能否举一些例子，也许是一个使您感到惊讶的答案，或是一些改变您对特定问题的想法的例子？

Giovanni: Sure, for each interview I had two questions everyone. And then I had specific questions for each individual based upon their work or their field. And the two questions that I asked that were the same, were “What is your production process?” I wanted them to give me a blow by blow of exactly what did they do to get things done in a very practical way.

乔凡尼：当然，对于每次采访我每个人都有两个问题。 然后我根据每个人的工作或领域对每个人提出具体问题。 我问的两个问题是相同的：“您的生产过程是什么？” 我希望他们给我一个打击，确切地讲他们做了什么，以非常实用的方式完成工作。

And then the second question was all about, “How do you think about problems? What is the internal dialogue that you have when you really think about these problems?” And from a few different people, I got this response which was basically, “What’s the difference?” Which really surprised me, because to me those things are very, very different.

然后第二个问题是关于“您如何看待问题？ 当您真正考虑这些问题时，您会进行什么内部对话？” 从几个不同的人那里，我得到的答复基本上是：“有什么区别？” 这真的让我感到惊讶，因为对我而言，这些事情非常非常不同。

The practical to-do list that I follow to communicate with clients and to be organized and to get things done in an efficient manner, has very little to do with my sort of internal, creative dialogue when I’m trying to figure out what it is that needs to be said, and how to say it, and how the artwork, and what is the aesthetic and all those things.

我要与客户沟通并进行组织并以高效的方式完成工作时遵循的实际待办事项清单，与我试图弄清它的内容时所进行的内部，创造性对话几乎没有关系需要说的是，如何说，如何艺术品，什么是美学以及所有这些东西。

And when I spoke to some people who, like I spoke to Jessica Hische, who’s a type designer, an illustrator, and she was one of the people who was strongest in the opinion that those are exactly the same thing. That really surprised me and it made me realize that there are probably a lot of people who just from a very fundamental level do not even think about those processes in even the remotely the same way that I do.

当我与某些人交谈时，就像我与字体设计师，插画家杰西卡·希切(Jessica Hische)交谈时，她是最坚强的人之一，他们认为这些都是一回事。 这让我感到非常惊讶，这让我意识到，也许很多人甚至从根本上都没有像我一样遥想这些过程。

Which really strengthened my resolve to get other people’s opinions, because I thought that that was very fundamental. The fact that the creative process and the production process are so segmented in my mind, but are completely the same thing in other people’s minds, I thought that was very fundamental.

这确实增强了我争取他人意见的决心，因为我认为那是非常基本的。 我认为创意过程和生产过程是如此细分，但在其他人的思想中却完全是同一件事，我认为这是非常基本的。

Louis: Right, that’s truly interesting. You said you had more specifically targeted questions to each individual, can you give an example of how that would play out or what sort of information you were looking for?

路易斯：对，那真的很有趣。 您说过您对每个人都有针对性更强的问题，能否举一个例子说明该问题如何发挥作用或您正在寻找什么样的信息？

Giovanni: Yeah, it really depended on who I was talking to. I talked to Shaun, Shaun Inman. He was a web designer and then he did Mint and now he’s pretty much exclusively an iOS and desktop game designer, he produces his own indie games. He came out with a game and iOS called The Last Rocket and it’s very streamlined, the aesthetic is very specific, the interactions are minimal, but sort of complex, and I found it interesting. On an interaction level, I found it really interesting.

乔凡尼：是的，这确实取决于我在和谁说话。 我和肖恩·英曼肖恩谈过。 他曾是一名网页设计师，后来又从事过Mint，现在他几乎完全是一名iOS和桌面游戏设计师，他制作了自己的独立游戏。 他推出了一款名为The Last Rocket的游戏和iOS游戏，它非常精简，美观，特定性，交互性极小，但有点复杂，我发现这很有趣。 在交互方面，我发现它真的很有趣。

So some of the questions I had for him was, how did he develop this set of interactions for this game, because the game has specific mechanics that make it interesting to play, but on a screen-based touch device, you’re sort of limited to gestures and apps and things like that. I just was curious how he sort of arrived at his final solutions.

因此，我要问他的一些问题是，他是如何为这款游戏开发这种互动的，因为该游戏具有使玩法有趣的特定机制，但是在基于屏幕的触摸设备上，您有点仅限于手势和应用程序之类的东西。 我只是很好奇他如何得出最终解决方案。

And it was interesting because he just basically told me that it was trial and error, he said that he wanted to focus on a single input method, where you know there was like one input that the user could use to interact with the game, and he wanted to see what could actually be done with that.

有趣的是，他只是基本地告诉我这是反复试验，他说他想专注于一种输入法，在这种输入法中，用户可以使用一种输入来与游戏进行交互，并且他想看看实际可以做什么。

And so there’s sort of this game that’s very narrative, specific game with a kind of really cool aesthetic and everything, but his primary interest was this very low level user interacting with a touch device where they can do one thing and it produces a set of results.

因此，这种游戏是一种非常叙事的游戏，具有特定的游戏，具有非常酷的美感和所有功能，但他的主要兴趣在于，这个低水平的用户与触摸设备进行交互，他们可以做一件事情，并且产生了一套结果。

So I found that kind of interesting that he would think about it that way. It was honestly a little hard for me to understand because I tend to not think about things that way, but I think he was mostly interested in experimenting and the game was the result of his experimentation.

因此，我发现他会以这种方式思考这种有趣的事情。 老实说，这让我很难理解，因为我倾向于不这样思考，但是我认为他对实验最感兴趣，而游戏是他实验的结果。

Louis: Right, I guess that’s a little bit less available to most web designers doing client work, to sort of just to do websites as an experiment about one method of interaction.

路易斯：对，我想大多数做客户工作的网页设计师所用的东西要少一些，只是为了做一个关于一种交互方法的实验而做网站。

Giovanni: I don’t actually agree with that because I have found that designers and developers alike have this tendency to be highly invested and interested in new and emerging tools and processes and technologies and stuff. If there’s a new kind of interesting jQuery plugin that’s being passed around Twitter, then people will find a way to fit it into their project.

乔凡尼：我实际上不同意这一点，因为我发现设计师和开发人员都倾向于对新兴工具，流程和技术以及东西投入大量资金并对之感兴趣。 如果Twitter上传递了一种有趣的新型jQuery插件，那么人们将找到一种方法将其适合他们的项目。

So that’s them wanting to learn more about something and experiment with technology and just sort of shoe-horning it into a project. It may be totally appropriate for their projects and they may be good at finding good use cases for this new thing, but I think that a primary interest is just being able to try it out.

因此，这就是他们想要更多地了解某些东西并尝试技术，然后将其引入项目中。 这可能完全适合他们的项目，并且他们可能擅长为这个新事物找到好的用例，但是我认为最主要的兴趣就是能够尝试一下。

So I think that there are some similarities between Shaun’s approach to that game and other designers and developers. Those are the parallels that I’m interested in. I think that understanding fundamentally how we think about things and how we approach them is as important to figuring out a really good process that is effective and allows you to be creative and try new things.

因此，我认为Shaun的游戏方法与其他设计师和开发人员之间存在一些相似之处。 这些就是我感兴趣的相似之处。我认为，从根本上了解我们对事物的看法以及我们如何对待事物，对于找出一个有效且使您能够发挥创造力并尝试新事物的真正良好过程至关重要。

Louis: Right. Well Giovanni, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. If listeners want to catch up with you, do you have a blog or Twitter where people can go?

路易斯：对。 乔凡尼，非常感谢您今天抽出宝贵时间与我交谈。 如果听众想跟上您的步伐，那么您是否有可以去那里的人的博客或Twitter？

Giovanni: Yeah, on Twitter and Dribbble, I’m giodif, and that’s pretty much me everywhere now. I also have my portfolio site, it’s gdefeterici.com. Oh and I’m on Unmatched Style all the time. I’m the Content and Style Editor at Unmatched Style. We put out stuff all the time and I write there all the time.

乔万尼：是的，在Twitter和Dribbble上，我是giodif，现在几乎到处都是我。 我也有我的投资组合网站，即gdefeterici.com 。 哦，我一直都在追求无与伦比的风格。 我是Unmatched Style的内容和样式编辑器。 我们总是把东西放出来，我一直都在那儿写东西。

Louis: All right. And if you want to have a look at the Web Designer’s Roadmap, it’s available at SitePoint.com/books, it’s right at the top of the page.

路易斯：好的。 而且，如果您想看看Web Designer的路线图，可以在SitePoint.com/books上找到它，它位于页面顶部。

Giovanni: Awesome.

乔瓦尼：太好了。

Louis: All right, thanks again, Giovanni.

路易斯：好的，再次感谢乔瓦尼。

Giovanni: Thank you.

乔凡尼：谢谢。

Louis: And thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the SitePoint Podcast. I’d love to hear what you thought about today’s show, so if you have any thoughts or suggestions just go to sitepoint.com/podcast and you can leave a comment on today’s episode, you can also get any of our previous episodes to download or subscribe to get the show automatically. You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, that’s sitepoint d-o-t-c-o-m, and you can follow me on Twitter @rssaddict. The show this week was produced by Karn Broad, and I’m Louis Simoneau, thanks for listening and bye for now.

路易斯：感谢您收听本周的SitePoint播客。 我很想听听您对今天节目的看法，因此，如果您有任何想法或建议，请访问sitepoint.com/podcast ，您可以对今天的节目发表评论，也可以下载我们以前的任何节目或订阅自动显示节目。 您可以在Twitter @sitepointdotcom (即站点点dotcom)上关注SitePoint ，也可以在Twitter @rssaddict上关注我。 本周的节目是由Karn Broad制作的，我是Louis Simoneau，感谢您的收听和再见。

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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-178-web-design-process-and-creativity-with-giovanni-difeterici/