Episode 73 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@iFroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Brad Williams (@williamsba), and Kevin Yank (@sentience).
SitePoint Podcast的第73集现已发布！ 本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @iFroggy )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。
下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #73: Cease and Desoup(MP3, 48.6MB, 53:00)SitePoint Podcast＃73：停止和退汤(MP3，48.6MB，53:00)
剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)
Here are the topics covered in this episode:
以下是本集中介绍的主题：
- Cookie stuffing officially illegal 饼干馅正式非法
- Speedy browser updates an excuse not to upgrade? 快速浏览器更新借口不升级？
- How important is code validity today? 今天的代码有效性有多重要？
- Content paywalls: dead or just mostly dead? 内容付费专区：已死还是仅已死？
Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/73.
浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/73中显示的参考链接的完整列表。
主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)
Brad: What The F%@k Is My Social Media Strategy?
布拉德： 我的社交媒体策略是F％@ k？
Kevin: Canto.js
凯文： Canto.js
Patrick: Why the 3/50 Project Can’t Save Small Businesses
帕特里克： 为什么3/50项目不能拯救小型企业
Stephan: Permatime
斯蒂芬： 永久
显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)
Kevin: August 6th, 2010. Can browser updates come too frequently? Is code validation still relevant? And paywalls: dead or just mostly dead? I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #73: Cease and Desoup.
凯文： 2010年8月6日。浏览器更新是否会经常发布？ 代码验证仍然有意义吗？ 付费专栏：已经死了还是几乎全部死了？ 我是Kevin Yank，这是SitePoint播客73：停止和消沉。
And welcome, welcome to the SitePoint Podcast! We’ve got a full house again here today. Hi Stephan, Brad, Patrick.
欢迎来到SitePoint播客！ 今天我们又在这里满屋子了。 嗨，斯蒂芬，布拉德，帕特里克。
Stephan: Howdy, howdy.
史蒂芬：你好，你好。
Brad: Hello.
布拉德：你好。
Patrick: Good day.
帕特里克：美好的一天。
Kevin: Patrick, why don’t you kick us off with the first bit of news.
凯文：帕特里克，为什么不从头条新闻开始。
Patrick: Sure, so back in 2008 some listeners may have heard that eBay filed a civil suit against Shawn Hogan, Brian Dunning and Todd Dunning; Hogan is know for being associated with Digital Point. And the suit was about click stuffing, or cookie stuffing I should say, cookie stuffing is more or less if you think of you visit a website, right, and you visit that site, you get the cookies for that site. But maybe there is some code working behind the scenes that is actually logging a visit to another site like eBay through an affiliate link, and all of a sudden that cookie is now on your computer, so if you buy something on eBay in the next whatever period of time until the cookie expires you give credit to that website or that person who set that script up without even knowing it. You didn’t click a link with sites —
帕特里克：当然，所以在2008年，有些听众可能听说过eBay对Shawn Hogan，Brian Dunning和Todd Dunning提起了民事诉讼。 Hogan因与Digital Point相关联而闻名。 诉讼是关于单击填充或cookie填充的，我应该说，如果您想到访问某个网站，那么cookie填充或多或少是正确的，而当您访问该站点时，就会获得该站点的cookie。 但是也许背后有一些代码在起作用，实际上是通过会员链接记录了对另一个网站(如eBay)的访问记录，并且突然之间，cookie出现在了您的计算机上，因此，如果您下次在eBay上购买商品，无论如何在Cookie过期之前的一段时间内，您会将信用归功于该网站或设置脚本的人员，甚至根本不知道该脚本。 您没有点击网站链接-
Kevin: Right, it’s like an affiliate program fraud, right?
凯文：对，这就像会员计划欺诈，对吗？
Patrick: Kind of, yeah.
帕特里克：有点，是的。
Kevin: You’re claiming responsibility for sending someone to eBay even though you never actually did that really.
凯文：即使您从未真正做到过，您也声称有责任将某人发送到eBay。
Patrick: Yeah, or it wasn’t visible. I mean I don’t know how that would work, but there are scripts out there that will allow you to do it. And I would imagine some sort of iframe thing could go on, but I mean that’s probably a crude way to do it. Anyway, eBay, it became such a big problem with eBay regarding Digital Point and regarding the sites that these three people ran that they actually came out and filed a civil suit, but the stakes have been raised because revenues.com reports that it’s actually an indictment now with the FBI investigation by the Cyber Crimes Department where they were indicted with wire fraud and criminal forfeiture. Hogan was given ten counts of wire fraud and Denning was given five counts of wire fraud. According to the documents they could face a penalty of up to 20 years imprisonment, maximum fine of $250,000.00, or twice the gross gain or loss, whichever is greater, three years of supervised release, and $100.00 special assessment per count. And I don’t have the count number here in front of me, but I would guess that every time that they did this to a visitor it could count as one count, so when you do the math you have a lot of money at stake here and also, of course, your personal freedom. So it’s gone from just a civil matter to an actual serious legal matter. And from what I’ve read there are a lot of people who engage in this, probably much smaller than Digital Point and Hogan and these other people, but still people who rely on this for some income, and I think this is probably a serious wake-up call.
帕特里克：是的，还是看不见。 我的意思是我不知道该如何工作，但是有一些脚本可以帮助您做到这一点。 而且我想可能会发生某种iframe事情，但是我的意思是这可能是一种粗略的做法。 无论如何，在eBay上，eBay在Digital Point以及这三个人经营的网站方面都成了一个大问题，他们实际上出来并提起了民事诉讼，但由于收益情况报告说这实际上是一个现在，美国联邦调查局(FBI)对网络犯罪部进行了调查，起诉他们以电汇欺诈和没收刑事罪名成立。 霍根被判十项电汇欺诈罪，丹宁被判五项电汇欺诈罪。 根据文件，他们可能面临最高20年的监禁，最高250,000.00美元的罚款或两倍的总损益(以较高者为准)，三年的有监督释放和每笔100.00美元的特殊评估。 而且我前面没有计数数字，但是我想他们每次对访客执行此操作时，它就可以算作一个计数，因此，当您进行数学计算时，您会涉及很多金钱在这里，当然还有您的个人自由。 因此，它已从民事问题变成了实际的严肃法律事务。 根据我的阅读，有很多人从事这项工作，可能比Digital Point和Hogan以及其他人要小得多，但是仍然有人依靠这个来赚钱，我认为这很严重。叫醒服务。
Kevin: Yeah, the story you sent round from ReveNews sort of concludes that the general feeling out there, at least until this case has been tried, was that all’s fair and love and affiliate links. That’s almost an exact quote from the story actually! But yeah, this was a flaw in the technology that if people like eBay wanted to use web technologies in order to run an affiliate program then they had to take the good with the bad; that this technology was flawed, it wasn’t designed necessarily to do this sort of thing, and so if there are loopholes then people can take advantage of it, and that’s eBay’s problem. But I guess wire fraud can mean any form of making money surreptitiously using electronic communication I guess. And so based on this case a lot of people are going to have to change their minds about this stuff.
凯文(Kevin)：是的，您从ReveNews发来的故事得出的结论是，至少在此案得到审判之前，人们的普遍感觉是，一切都是公平的，充满爱意和与会员的联系。 实际上，这几乎是这个故事的确切报价！ 但是，是的，这是技术上的一个缺陷，如果像eBay这样的人想要使用网络技术来运行会员计划，那么他们就必须善与恶。 这项技术有缺陷，并不是一定要设计这种东西，因此，如果存在漏洞，人们可以利用它，这就是eBay的问题。 但是我想电汇欺诈可能意味着我猜想任何形式的利用电子通信秘密赚钱的行为。 因此，基于这种情况，很多人将不得不改变对此事的想法。
Patrick: Yeah, and that quote comes from Linda Buquet of fivestarffiliateprograms.com. But I was going to say that, yeah, I think there are a lot of things you can do out there to increase your affiliate conversions that are fine, upfront or white hat or legal or however you want to look at it that you can do, but this just isn’t one of them. And I don’t know; I think that there’s something to this that at least to me would strike me as unethical without needing the law, right? But, of course, if something isn’t in black in white in the public eye and marked as illegal people will still do it until they’re told not to. So maybe this is an opportunity for a lot of people to clean up and cash out before they get caught.
帕特里克：是的，而且报价来自于琳达Buquet fivestarffiliateprograms.com 。 但是我要说的是，是的，我认为您可以做很多事情来提高会员的转化率，例如优质的，预先支付的，白帽子的或合法的，或者您想看看可以做的，但这不是其中之一。 我也不知道 我认为，至少在我看来，不需要法律就可以使我不道德，对吗？ 但是，当然，如果在公众眼中不是黑底白字并标记为非法的东西，除非有人告知他们不要这样做，否则它仍然会这样做。 因此，对于很多人来说，这可能是一个机会，可以在他们被抓之前进行清理和兑现。
Brad: So, new versions of Google will be flying out of the Googleplex now. Google actually just announced that they plan on releasing a new full version of, or I should say a new major version of Chrome every six weeks, as if they weren’t already releasing new versions fast enough, they’re actually kicking it up a notch. There’s a few different reasons why they plan on doing this, one of the reasons is they’re creating new features so quickly that they don’t want those features to basically become stale, they want to get those features to the users as quickly as possible. They’ll also allow Google to have more firmly set schedules for Chrome, and it will also take the pressure off engineers to finish new features, because if they can’t quite get a feature finished they know they don’t have to wait months and months and months for that feature to show up in Chrome; they’ll only have to wait six weeks to do that. So it’s a pretty interesting take on new releases, and we’ve talked about this a few times; I remember kind of joking around that Chrome version 10 is going to be out before the end of the year, and it’s not too far off, we’ll probably be looking at Chrome version 8 or 9 by the end of the year.
布拉德：所以，新版本的Google现在将退出Googleplex。 Google实际上刚刚宣布他们计划发布新的完整版本，或者我应该说每六周发布一个新的主要版本的Chrome，就好像他们尚未足够快地发布新版本一样，他们实际上是在将其发布。缺口。 他们计划这样做的原因有很多，其中一个原因是他们创建新功能的速度如此之快，以至于他们不希望这些功能基本上过时，他们希望尽快将这些功能提供给用户。可能。 他们还将使Google能够更牢固地设定Chrome的时间表，这也将减轻工程师完成新功能的压力，因为如果他们不能完全完成某项功能，他们便知道不必等待数月。并需要数月的时间才能在Chrome中显示该功能； 他们只需要等待六个星期就可以做到。 因此，这是新版本中非常有趣的一种方式，我们已经讨论了几次。 我记得有种玩笑说Chrome版本10会在今年年底之前发布，并且相差不远，我们可能会在今年年底之前看到Chrome版本8或9。
Kevin: Six weeks seems a bit arbitrary and a bit fast. I mean it might be appropriate for the times at the moment, that web technology is moving fast, we’re getting a lot of updates to specs like CSS and HTML, and Chrome, after all, is the browser that was created to experiment with this new stuff and hopefully lead the way for other browsers to follow suit. But I don’t know if it’s reasonable to think that we could, we should even, see our web browsers having major updates every six weeks for the next however many years. If we’re still doing that in ten years time what are these browsers going to be like, and what company will be able to afford to keep up with that pace of innovation.
凯文：六个星期似乎有些武断，有点快。 我的意思是，当前网络技术发展日新月异，现在可能是合适的，我们正在对CSS和HTML等规范进行大量更新，而Chrome毕竟是为进行实验而创建的浏览器这些新内容，并有望为其他浏览器效仿。 但是我不知道是否有理由认为我们可以甚至应该看到我们的网络浏览器在接下来的许多年中每六周进行一次重大更新。 如果十年后我们仍在这样做，那么这些浏览器将会是什么样子，以及什么样的公司将有能力跟上这种创新步伐。
Patrick: They just want to catch up to AOL 9.5 and soon enough IE9.
帕特里克(Patrick)：他们只是想赶上AOL 9.5，并尽快赶上IE9。
Kevin: (Laughs) Yeah, I see that.
凯文：(笑)是的，我明白了。
Stephan: They’ll be operating systems. (Laughs)
史蒂芬：他们将是操作系统。 (笑)
Patrick: But I mean it’s just a testament to how loose version numbers can really be and how different they are from company to company.
帕特里克(Patrick)：但是，我的意思只是证明版本号的真正松散程度以及各个公司之间的区别。
Brad: Yeah, Google actually said that they basically stated don’t read too much into the version numbers because they are releasing them so quick. Going from version 5 to 6 isn’t going to be like you would expect when Firefox 3 came out and they had all these new features and this and that. It’s going to have a few new features, but it’s not going to jam-packed with just endless amounts of new things, it’s going to have six weeks’ worth of new features.
布拉德：是的，Google实际上说他们基本上说不要对版本号读太多，因为他们发布得太快了。 从版本5升级到版本6并不会像Firefox 3推出时那样，它们具有所有这些新功能。 它将具有一些新功能，但是不会充满无穷无尽的新功能，它将具有六个星期的新功能。
Kevin: You’re my poster child as a Chrome fan, Brad, and you yourself were saying that you’ve lost track of the updates that you receive to this browser because they happen transparently. But are you even actively aware anymore of what version of Chrome you’re running? And if not, are version numbers, not only are they completely arbitrary, but are they completely meaningless? I mean does anyone even need to know their version number anymore?
凯文(Kevin)：您是Chrome迷，我是招贴画的孩子，布拉德(Brad)，您自己是说您已经失去了对此浏览器收到的更新的跟踪，因为这些更新是透明发生的。 但是，您是否还知道运行的是哪个版本的Chrome？ 如果不是，版本号不仅是完全任意的，而且完全没有意义吗？ 我的意思是说，还有人甚至不需要知道他们的版本号吗？
Brad: Yeah, the way Chrome’s doing it you almost don’t need to because, you’re right, the updates happen in the background, there’s no confirmation asking if you want to update, it just happens when a new version comes out, but I believe Chrome’s one of the only browsers actually doing that. And when we compare those graphs on browser usage you could see how when Chrome 5 came out, Chrome 4 browser usage went down to zero within a matter of weeks or months or whatever it may be. But, yeah, I think in the case of Chrome it is almost arbitrary because it’s not so much what version you’re on; the only reason you need to look at what version you’re on is if you’re trying to see if you have maybe a particular new feature that came out or to see what your version supports, but as soon as that new version releases it’s going to update whether you like it or not.
布拉德：是的，Chrome几乎不需要这样做，因为是对的，更新是在后台进行的，没有确认询问您是否要更新，只是在新版本问世时发生，但我相信Chrome是实际执行此操作的仅有的浏览器之一。 当我们比较这些浏览器使用率的图表时，您会看到Chrome 5何时发布，Chrome 4浏览器的使用率在数周或数月之内(无论如何)下降到零。 但是，是的，我认为在Chrome的情况下，它几乎是任意的，因为与您使用的版本无关。 您需要查看所使用的版本的唯一原因是，如果您要尝试查看是否有某个特定的新功能已经发布或要查看您的版本支持什么，但是当该新版本发布时，无论是否喜欢都会更新。
Kevin: So this links in for me with a story from SitePoint blogger Craig Buckler who is updating us on the status of a petition by web developers, well UK web developers, let’s put it that way, who demanded that their government, that the British government, get around to updating and getting all of the government computers off of Internet Explorer 6. Apparently that is the baseline standard within the British government still to run Windows XP with Internet Explorer 6 on it, fully patched of course, but nevertheless this is an old browser in terms of its web standards support if nothing else. And this petition that got 6,223 signatures was demanding that the government upgrade, get itself into the 21st Century. And the petition has failed. But it’s failed in kind of an interesting way, they did get the government to respond to it, which may be a victory in itself, but the response is not the one that they were hoping for. Reading a few snippets here from the official response they’re saying, “Complex software will always have vulnerabilities and motivated adversaries will always work to discover and take advantage of them. There’s no evidence that upgrading away from the latest fully-patched versions of Internet Explorer to other browsers will make users more secure.” Craig contends that one of the reasons this petition may have failed was because it may have engaged in a bit of scaremongering; it tried to get … the main case it put forward for getting off of Internet Explorer was one of security vulnerabilities, when we all know why web developers would really want them to upgrade would be so we’re not stuck supporting the archaic rendering technologies of Internet Explorer 6, but they thought, you know, the case for the government is going to be a security one and so they said you ought to get off IE6 because of the security flaws. It seems that was not convincing. And so they’re deciding to stick with it. Craig goes on to say, though, that maybe we’re expecting too much from this government and that even if we did get our way, even if we got them to switch to Firefox or Chrome, that then we would be demanding that they keep up to date with the release schedules. And this is where it links back to Google Chrome, can we expect an entity the size of a government to be applying browser updates every six weeks?
凯文(Kevin)：因此，这与我联系在一起的是SitePoint博客克雷格·巴克勒(Craig Buckler)的一个故事，他正在向我们介绍Web开发人员 (以及英国的Web开发人员) 的请愿状态 ，让我们这样说，他们要求他们的政府，英国人政府，开始着手更新并从Internet Explorer 6中删除所有政府计算机。显然，这是英国政府的基本标准，仍然可以运行带有Internet Explorer 6的Windows XP，当然已对其进行了全面修补。如果没有其他功能，旧浏览器就其网络标准而言就可以支持。 这份有6,223个签名的请愿书要求政府升级，使其步入21世纪。 而且请愿失败了。 但这以某种有趣的方式失败了，他们的确让政府做出了回应，这本身就是胜利，但回应并非他们所希望的。 从他们的官方回应中读到一些摘录，他们说：“复杂的软件将始终存在漏洞，有动机的对手将始终努力发现并利用它们。 没有证据表明，从最新的完整修补程序版本的Internet Explorer升级到其他浏览器将使用户更加安全。” 克雷格(Craig)辩称，这份请愿书可能失败的原因之一是因为它可能参与了一些恐吓活动。 它试图获得……提出脱离Internet Explorer的主要案例是安全漏洞之一，当我们都知道为什么Web开发人员真正希望他们进行升级时，是因为我们不会停留在支持Internet的过时渲染技术上。 Internet Explorer 6，但是他们认为，政府的情况将是安全的，因此他们说，由于安全漏洞，您应该放弃IE6。 似乎并不令人信服。 因此，他们决定坚持下去。 不过，克雷格(Craig)继续说，也许我们对政府的期望过高，即使我们确实采取了行动，即使我们让他们改用Firefox或Chrome，也要求他们继续使用。最新的发布时间表。 这就是它链接到Google Chrome的地方，我们可以期望一个像政府这样规模的实体每六周应用一次浏览器更新吗？
Stephan: Not if they happen in the background (laughs).
史蒂芬：如果它们在后台发生，那就不是(笑)。
Brad: Well, the main issue is there are so many applications, and it’s obvious they must have some kind of system they use, or multiple systems that require IE6, I mean they must or there wouldn’t be this much of a pushback. But, you know, now with the new browser technologies and the way that people actually all the browsers kind of work and follow the standards, well, they at least try to anyway; applications aren’t built like they used to. They’re not built for one single browser, they’re built to work in as many browsers as possible. So I think once they get past the IE6 hurdle then it will be much easier for them to upgrade going forward because it won’t be stuck into that closed box where everything has to work in IE6 because that’s how it was built.
布拉德：嗯，主要问题是应用程序太多，很明显，他们必须使用某种系统，或者需要IE6的多个系统，我的意思是它们必须或不会有太多的回推。 但是，您知道，现在有了新的浏览器技术，人们实际上所有浏览器都在工作并遵循标准，至少他们还是尝试这样做。 应用程序的构建不像以前那样。 它们不是为单个浏览器而构建，而是为在尽可能多的浏览器中工作而构建。 因此，我认为一旦他们克服了IE6的障碍，升级对他们来说将变得更加容易，因为它不会卡在IE6中一切必须工作的封闭框中，因为这就是它的构建方式。
Stephan: I wonder if it’s really they have these applications that run only in IE6 and they don’t want to lose that functionality, or if it’s a security issue and that they’ve put all this time into making sure that IE6 and Windows XP and their installation is locked down and they don’t want to spend the time where they know it’s going to be time consuming to move forward to Windows 7 and IE8 or Firefox or whatever it is.
斯蒂芬：我想知道是否真的有这些应用程序仅在IE6中运行并且他们不想失去该功能，还是因为安全性问题，他们是否一直在确保IE6和Windows XP并且他们的安装被锁定，并且他们不想花时间去了解升级到Windows 7和IE8或Firefox或其他任何版本所花费的时间。
Kevin: Hmm, yeah. They say that, well, Craig reports that the departments in the government that are receiving upgrades to newer systems, they are being moved to Internet Explorer 7 at the moment (laughs) even though IE8 is out there and is available for any system where Internet Explorer 7 will run. It’s like the government still is taking a very careful approach to this stuff and will not deploy something that hasn’t been out there and proven for five years, which is tough if the average browser release schedule is a year going on six weeks.
凯文：嗯，是的。 他们说，好吧，Craig报告说，政府部门正在接受新系统的升级，尽管IE8已经存在并且可以在任何Internet可用的系统上使用，但他们现在正在转移到Internet Explorer 7(笑)。资源管理器7将运行。 就像政府仍在对这些内容采取非常谨慎的方法，并且不会部署尚未出现并已证明五年的内容一样，如果平均浏览器发布时间表是一年，即六个星期，那么这将很难。
I like that fact that what we’re seeing here with this petition and the response from the government is what’s going on behind the scenes in corporate settings all over the world where web developers who sign on to work — I know my first job as a professional web developer I was working in the Information Department of a company and I was hired to revamp their internal website for that department. And I was asked to develop it without access to the server. They said, yeah, make a bunch of files in a folder and when you’re done email those to the sysadmins and they’ll take care of the rest. And I was supposed to be building a site that would be easily updatable everyday. I ended up writing giant Word documents saying, okay, if you want to update this page you have to go to line 26 and change this tag to that tag; it was silly. But this is the sort of thing that’s going on behind the scenes at corporates all over the world, and now we are seeing it on a grand scale in the public eye with this petition in the British government. It doesn’t seem to be getting us any further, but at least there’s a sense of shared frustration rather than it being something that’s just going on between you and your boss. Craig suggests that if you’re a web developer and this sort of thing frustrates you, you should really be looking for work outside of the corporate juggernauts of the world. Do you think that’s true? Do you think one web developer can’t make a difference?
我喜欢这个事实，我们在本请愿书中看到的就是政府的回应，这是在全世界从事Web开发人员签约工作的公司环境中幕后发生的事情–我知道我的第一份工作是专业的Web开发人员我曾经在一家公司的信息部门工作，后来被雇用来修改他们在该部门的内部网站。 我被要求在不访问服务器的情况下进行开发。 他们说，是的，在一个文件夹中制作一堆文件，完成后将这些文件通过电子邮件发送给系统管理员，其余的将由他们来处理。 我应该建立一个每天都可以轻松更新的网站。 我最终写了很多Word文档，说，好吧，如果您想更新此页面，则必须转到第26行并将此标记更改为该标记。 真傻。 但这是世界各地公司幕后发生的事情，现在随着英国政府的这一请愿，我们在公众眼中看到了这种盛况。 似乎并没有使我们走得更远，但是至少有一种共同的挫败感，而不是仅仅在您和老板之间发生。 克雷格(Craig)建议，如果您是一名Web开发人员，但这种事情令您感到沮丧，那么您确实应该在世界各地的企业巨头之外寻找工作。 你认为是真的吗？ 您认为一个Web开发人员不能有所作为吗？
Stephan: I mean I think, from my personal experience, I think that there are large corporations who have been affected by developers who have said this is not the way we should do things and they’ve eventually made a change. But overall, yeah, I don’t think — well, and I think some places people live in a, they kind of live in a shell in some of these big corporations because they just do their job and they do their 9 to 5 and they go home.
史蒂芬：我的意思是，我认为，根据我的个人经验，我认为有些大型公司受到开发人员的影响，他们说这不是我们应该做的事情，他们最终做出了改变。 但是总的来说，是的，我不认为-很好，而且我认为人们生活在某些地方，在某些大公司中他们生活在一个空壳中，因为他们只是做工作，而他们只做9到5，他们回家。
Kevin: More and more the computers that are provided by these companies that are running these ancient software platforms just become that one-purpose tool to access the company’s internal application that relies on IE6, and then people do their personal web browsing on their smartphones, right?
凯文(Kevin)：越来越多的公司在运行这些古老的软件平台上提供的计算机，已成为一种访问IE6的公司内部应用程序的单一工具，然后人们在智能手机上进行个人Web浏览，对？
Stephan: No firewall, no things like that to deal with on the corporate level.
斯蒂芬：没有防火墙，没有类似的东西可以在企业层面上处理。
Kevin: The times are changing.
凯文：时代在变。
Stephan: So then there’s something else new in town, it’s a new validator from the W3C, and it’s called Unicorn. You guys seen this?
史蒂芬(Stephan)：那么，城镇中还有其他新东西，它是W3C的新验证器， 叫做Unicorn 。 你们看到了吗？
Kevin: Yeah! Well, I ran one of the sites I work on through it, and it was —
凯文：是的！ 好吧，我运行了其中的一个网站，它是-
Patrick: Fail.
帕特里克：失败。
Kevin: Yeah, it failed. (Laughs) It failed, and I made sure to pick the site that I thought would be least likely to fail, the one that I had gone out of my way to make sure was valid, this validator found a bug in the latest version of the content management system for that site; it was putting an invalid attribute in some of my image tags, and I was kind of crushed. The CSS was valid.
凯文：是的，它失败了。 (笑)它失败了，我确保选择了我认为最不可能失败的站点，我竭尽全力确保该站点是有效的，此验证程序在最新版本的该站点的内容管理系统； 它在我的某些图像标签中添加了无效的属性，这让我有些沮丧。 CSS有效。
Stephan: What all does it check?
史蒂芬：它检查什么？
Kevin: It checks HTML, it checks CSS, it checks your RSS and Atom feeds, if your site has any, and it will also reportedly even check the mobile-friendliness of the site. So it runs a check called mobileOK. And, yeah, it does this all at once; you just provide it one URL and it checks the whole thing. Which is nice because I know when I used to do validation I would go to the HTML validator and if it was happy that was enough for me; I can’t say I’ve ever really validated my CSS code with any regularity. But I guess the fact that my site that I thought was valid failed indicates that I don’t validate my code much at all anymore.
凯文：它检查HTML，检查CSS，检查RSS和Atom提要(如果您的站点有)，并且据报道甚至还会检查站点的移动友好性。 因此，它将运行名为mobileOK的检查。 是的，它一次完成所有操作； 您只需为其提供一个URL即可检查整个过程。 很好，因为我知道我以前进行验证时会去HTML验证器，如果很高兴，这对我来说足够了； 我不能说我曾经以任何规律性来验证过我CSS代码。 但是我想我认为自己的网站无效的事实表明我不再完全验证我的代码了。
Stephan: Do you validate yours Brad?
斯蒂芬：你验证你的布拉德吗？
Brad: No, I don’t. (Laughter) I’ve yet to find a site that can pass this thing. I mean I’ve typed in like some very popular sites, some smaller sites, Google, Twitter, I mean they all fail, everything fails. I don’t think anyone validates anything anymore.
布拉德：不，我不知道。 (众笑)我还没有找到一个可以通过这件事的网站。 我的意思是说我输入了一些非常受欢迎的网站，一些较小的网站，Google，Twitter，我的意思是它们都失败了，一切都失败了。 我认为没有人再验证任何东西了。
Kevin: It feels like validation was in its heyday five years ago when we were all trying to convince Microsoft that Internet Explorer 6 wasn’t good enough. And it was like we had to make sure that we had crossed our T’s and dotted our I’s before we could demand more of the browsers because otherwise the browsers would go, “Oh, that’s not working? It’s probably just because your code isn’t valid.” So we all made sure to validate our code so that we could prove conclusively that we were all coding to the same standard, and then we could go to the browser developers and say “Look! Look, you don’t have to support 20 ways of doing things, just please support these standards that we are all validating against, and if you just do that everything will be great.” And now they’re kind of doing that mostly; for the most part if you write valid code now you know what to expect. And so still, especially for beginner web developers, when something isn’t working for them I think directing them to a validator like this one is still a great first step because it’s likely to pick up coding mistakes that you’re going to make if you’re not too familiar with HTML and CSS. But maybe it’s not necessary anymore if you know what you’re doing to make sure your code is valid because if it’s invalid then more often than not it will be invalid as a conscious choice, maybe you’re using some new experimental CSS feature that’s only supported by a particular browser and that’s the kind of thing that a validator will baulk at but it is not a bad thing.
凯文：感觉就像是在五年前的鼎盛时期，那时我们所有人都试图说服Microsoft Internet Explorer 6不够出色。 就像我们必须确保在可以使用更多浏览器之前，我们已经划过T并在I上加上点划线I一样，因为否则浏览器就会运行，“哦，那行不通吗？ 可能只是因为您的代码无效。” 因此，我们都确保验证了我们的代码，以便可以最终证明我们都在按照相同的标准进行编码，然后我们可以去浏览器开发人员说“看！ 瞧，您不必支持20种做事方式，只需支持我们都在验证的这些标准，如果您这样做，一切都会很好。” 现在，他们大部分都是这样做的； 在大多数情况下，如果您现在编写有效的代码，您就会知道会发生什么。 因此，尤其是对于初学者的Web开发人员而言，当某些东西对他们不起作用时，我认为将它们定向到这样的验证器上仍然是一个很好的第一步，因为如果发生这种情况，它很可能会拾取您将要犯的编码错误您对HTML和CSS不太熟悉。 但是，如果您知道要做什么以确保代码有效，也许就不再需要了，因为如果它无效，那么作为有意识的选择，它常常会变得无效，也许您正在使用一些新的实验性CSS功能，仅由特定的浏览器支持，验证者会大惊小怪，但这并不是一件坏事。
Brad: I mean even Google’s come out and basically said that there’s no priority given to sites that validate, I mean it’s not one of the 200 factors or whatever to figure out if a site’s relevant; validation is not one of them. So if Google doesn’t care why should we?
布拉德(Brad)：我的意思是，甚至Google都出来了，基本上是说，没有经过验证的网站才是优先考虑的事情，我的意思是，这不是200个因素之一，也不是要弄清楚网站是否相关的因素。 验证不是其中之一。 那么，如果Google不在乎我们为什么要这么做？
Kevin: (Laughs) I know developers have demanded that of Google. They’re like you know what we should get more because we put more TLC into our code. I think that may just be, you know, they’ve spent all this time validating and they go, oh, okay, I need the green check–
凯文：(笑)我知道开发人员已经要求Google。 他们就像您知道我们应该得到什么，因为我们在代码中添加了更多的TLC。 我认为那可能只是，他们花了所有时间进行验证，然后他们去了，哦，好吧，我需要绿色支票–
Patrick: I need some value here!
帕特里克：我在这里需要一些价值！
Kevin: Yeah, I got this checkmark, now what?
凯文：是的，我打了勾，现在呢？
Patrick: I get the icon, right? I can copy and paste this code and hopefully it still validates.
帕特里克：我得到图标了，对吗？ 我可以复制并粘贴此代码，并希望它仍然可以验证。
Kevin: I’m seeing a fair few checkmarks on html5test.com at the moment which is this new site for validating your browser against HTML5 support. And it’s kind of like an Acid test but a little less fancy. So these Acid tests, there’s was Acid, Acid2 and Acid3, that tested cutting edge web technology support in browsers and the idea was you visited this site with a browser and you either saw the picture you were supposed to or you saw some corrupted version of it, and that’s how you could tell how well your browser passed that test. But this is a little more useful, I think, because it doesn’t just display an image, it actually displays a list of all the different features that its testing and whether your browser passed or not, and it does come down to a score which I think some people object to because maybe not all of these things are of equal value, but my Safari 5.0.1 browser is getting 208 and seven bonus points. How are you guys doing?
凯文：我目前在html5test.com上看到很多复选标记，这是一个用于验证您的浏览器是否支持HTML5的新网站。 这有点像酸性测试，但是花哨的少了一点。 因此，这些酸性测试包括Acid，Acid2和Acid3，它们测试了浏览器中最先进的Web技术支持，其想法是您使用浏览器访问了该网站，或者看到了应该看到的图片，或者看到了损坏的版本这样，您就可以判断浏览器通过该测试的程度。 但我认为，这有点有用，因为它不仅显示图像，而且实际上显示了其测试的所有不同功能的列表以及您的浏览器是否通过测试，并且确实得出了一个分数。我认为有些人反对，因为也许并非所有这些东西都具有同等的价值，但是我的Safari 5.0.1浏览器却获得了208分和七个奖励积分。 你们最近还好吗？
Brad: The best I could get was on Chrome 5, I got 197, yeah.
布拉德：我能得到的最好的是Chrome 5，我有197。
Kevin: 197!
凯文： 197！
Brad: Yeah.
布拉德：是的
Stephan: Yeah, on one Chrome too.
斯蒂芬：是的，也可以在一个Chrome上。
Brad: Yeah, Safari beat Chrome, that’s surprising.
布拉德：是的，Safari击败了Chrome，这令人惊讶。
Patrick: On the latest Firefox I got 139 and four bonus points, and then on Opera I got 129 and four, and IE8 got 27 with no bonus points. It’s a route!
帕特里克(Patrick)：在最新的Firefox上，我获得了139分和四个奖励积分，然后在Opera上我获得了129分和四个奖励积分，而IE8则获得了27分，没有奖励积分。 这是一条路线！
Brad: That’s 27 more points than 6.
布拉德：比6多27分。
Kevin: In webmonkey.com’s test the leader was Chrome Developer Channel, so if switch Chrome over to the bleeding edge version so you’re getting their beta versions you get 217 plus 10 bonus points, that seems to be the best performer out there at the moment. And whether it’s fair to be using a beta browser or not is an open question. But just looking down the list some of the things my Safari browser doesn’t support are, well, most of the HTML5 parsing rules; it supports the DOCTYPE, but I thing everything supports the DOCTYPE out there, even Internet Explorer. Canvas is fully supported, that’s great, video is close, it doesn’t support subtitles, Ogg Theora or WebM, WebM being that new open video format from Google, so hopefully that will change soon if we can twist Apple’s arm, but Safari might be the last browser to support that. Audio, similarly it doesn’t support Ogg or WebM, hmm, local devices zero out of 20; you guys getting any love for local device support in your browsers?
凯文：在webmonkey.com的测试中 ，领导者是Chrome开发者频道，因此，如果将Chrome切换到最新版本，以便获得Beta版本，您将获得217加10的奖励积分，这似乎是其中表现最好的此时此刻。 是否使用Beta浏览器是否公平是一个悬而未决的问题。 但是，仅从列表中查找，我的Safari浏览器不支持的某些功能是大多数HTML5解析规则。 它支持DOCTYPE，但我想所有东西都支持DOCTYPE，甚至Internet Explorer也是如此。 完全支持Canvas，太好了，视频很接近，它不支持字幕，Ogg Theora或WebM，WebM是Google的新开放视频格式，因此如果我们能扭转苹果的臂膀，希望它会很快改变，但是Safari可能成为最后一个支持该功能的浏览器。 音频，类似地，它不支持Ogg或WebM，hmm，本地设备(十分之二十)； 你们喜欢浏览器中的本地设备支持吗？
Stephan: And what’s weird is I’m in Chrome and they didn’t, it doesn’t have WebM support.
史蒂芬：奇怪的是我在Chrome中，但他们不在，它没有WebM支持。
Kevin: That is weird. Pick it up Google, pick it up! Microdata also not supported, WebGL, so 3D graphics not supported; this is no longer part of HTML5, these are related specifications, WebGL, file reading support not at all supported, but that’s about it. You know, it’s further along than I would’ve thought. You hear stories of HTML5 isn’t going to be finalized until 2018 because it requires at least two browsers to fully support it before they can do that, and you think oh, well, HTML5 it must be just one of two features that are supported, and we’re waiting for the rest, but to look at this table its not doing so badly.
凯文：那很奇怪。 捡起Google，捡起来！ WebGL也不支持微数据，因此不支持3D图形； 这不再是HTML5的一部分，这些都是相关的规范，WebGL，完全不支持文件读取支持，仅此而已。 您知道，这比我想的要远。 您会听到HTML5的故事要到2018年才能最终确定，因为它至少需要两个浏览器才能完全支持HTML5，然后，您认为HTML5必须只是所支持的两个功能之一，我们正在等待其余的内容，但是看看这张桌子，它的表现还不错。
Patrick: Well, if we think of this as a letter grade system, right, and let’s say the best one is Chrome with 227 in developer channel mode, what is that, that’s 75 percent, that’s a C. That’s a C. Barely a passing grade, no I’m just kidding.
帕特里克(Patrick)：好吧，如果我们将其视为一个字母评分系统，是的，最好的是在开发人员频道模式下使用227的Chrome浏览器，那是75％，那就是C。及格成绩，不，我只是在开玩笑。
Kevin: (Laughs) I take your point.
凯文：(笑)我明白你的意思。
Brad: And the site does not pass the Unicorn validation test either.
布拉德：网站也没有通过Unicorn验证测试。
Kevin: (Laughs)
凯文：(笑)
Brad: There’s only one error so that’s probably the best I’ve seen so far.
布拉德：只有一个错误，所以这可能是我迄今为止见过的最好的错误。
Kevin: What’s the error?
凯文：怎么了？
Brad: Unrecognized Link element or XML style sheet, so it’s pretty minor.
布拉德：无法识别的链接元素或XML样式表，所以它很小。
Patrick: I found one site that would validate, it’s a site a friend of mine set up, it’s just a vanity site, isjaredsingle.com, and it does validate because it’s very, very simple.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我找到了一个可以验证的网站，它是我的一个朋友建立的网站，它只是一个虚荣网站isjaredsingle.com ，并且确实可以验证，因为它非常非常简单。
Kevin: Does it say yes or no?
凯文：是说是还是不是？
Patrick: Right now it says no because he’s not single (laughs).
帕特里克：现在说不，因为他不单身(笑)。
Kevin: Well done, Jared, congratulations.
凯文：做得好，贾里德，恭喜。
Patrick: That’s @jaredwsmith on Twitter.
帕特里克：那是Twitter上的@jaredwsmith 。
So there’s a lot of paywall content going up online these days, content you have to pay to access. Well, The Times, the UK based publication, has been experimenting with their online readership recently, at least for the last three weeks, trying to convert them to a pay model; charging them a few pounds a week to access their online content, and they have some early returns here as reported by The Guardian, and they don’t look good or at least it depends on your perspective, but to most people they don’t look very good because the article is suggesting that according to the data that is out there they have lost about 90 percent of their online readership. There’s a couple numbers bounced around, somewhere between 84 percent and 93 percent. Experian Hitwise is saying that they have managed to convert 25.6 percent of users who they redirect to a special bounce page to sign up, and 25.6 percent are signing up, the rest are just leaving. So what do you make of this?
因此，这些天网上有很多付费墙内容，您必须付费才能访问。 嗯，英国的《泰晤士报》最近至少在过去的三周内一直在试验他们的在线读者，试图将他们转换为付费模式。 他们每周要向他们收取几英镑的费用才能访问他们的在线内容，而且据《卫报》报道，他们在这里有一些早期回报，但它们看起来并不好，或者至少取决于您的观点，但是对于大多数人而言，他们并不满意看起来非常好，因为该文章建议根据现有数据，他们已经失去了大约90％的在线读者。 有几个数字反弹，介于84％和93％之间。 Experian Hitwise表示 ，他们已经设法将重定向到特殊跳出页面的用户中的25.6％转换为注册用户，其中25.6％的用户正在注册，其余的就离开了。 那么，您对此怎么看？
Kevin: Like you say, there’s a lot of percentage numbers here with decimal points after them that leads you to a sense of accuracy, but the claims that are being made about this story and what it means are — they’re pretty crazy. I’m hearing stories that The Times loses almost 90 percent of online readership, this is from The Guardian, so they may have a horse in this race, but nevertheless, putting all these numbers together and saying, oh, they’re losing 90 percent of this traffic, I’m not sure it’s justifiable because they’re measuring different things like the bounce rate on a particular page that’s asking for money and translating that into overall traffic numbers, which I think they’re making a slight leap here, but I think what we can all agree is that this is definitely having a significant, if not huge, impact on the traffic profile of sites that are trying it; sites that are trying to convert from free content to — and it’s not even very expensive, the paywall page asks someone who is trying to read The Times website to pay either one pound for immediate 24 hour access, so that’s on a bad day $2.50 U.S., probably closer to just $2.00 these days. Or you can pay that same one pound and gets 30 days of access and then it’s two pounds a week. So the most they’re ever going to charge you is about eight bucks a month for access to this site. And that is not an expensive site, especially if you are a regular reader of this content. You compare that to a print subscription for a newspaper, that’s not so bad.
凯文：就像你说的那样，这里有很多百分数，小数点后是小数点，可以带给您准确的感觉，但是关于这个故事及其含义的说法是疯狂的。 我听到的故事是《泰晤士报》失去了近90％的在线读者，这是来自《卫报》的，所以他们可能在这场比赛中有一匹马，但是尽管如此，将所有这些数字加在一起，然后说，他们正在失去90％这种流量的百分比，我不确定是否合理，因为他们正在衡量不同的内容，例如特定页面的跳出率，这些页面要求付款并将其转换为总流量，我认为他们在这里略有飞跃，但我认为我们都可以同意的是，这无疑会对正在尝试的网站的流量概况产生重大的影响，即使不是很大的影响； 试图将免费内容转换为免费内容的网站-甚至还不算很贵，付费墙页面要求尝试阅读The Times网站的用户支付一英镑以立即获得24小时访问权，因此在糟糕的一天需要支付2.50美元，这些天可能接近$ 2.00。 或者，您也可以支付同样的费用，即支付一英镑，获得30天的访问权限，然后每周支付两英镑。 因此，他们向您收取的最高费用约为每月八美元，可访问该网站。 那不是一个昂贵的网站，特别是如果您是该内容的常规阅读者。 您可以将其与报纸的印刷订阅进行比较，这还不错。
Patrick: Am I the only one that thinks that 25.6 percent of users signing up and proceeding to a Times page is actually a pretty good number?
帕特里克(Patrick)：我是唯一认为25.6％的用户注册并进入“时报”页面实际上是一个不错的数字的人吗？
Kevin: That sounds pretty good to me.
凯文：对我来说听起来不错。
Patrick: I mean I thought that was a pretty high number of people converting when you consider obviously the challenges here are serious with the amount of free content out there, and free news content, to even introduce this sort of model. We’ve seen it kind of, I guess I hate to use the word fail, but fail a lot, with a lot of different publications, and someone’s obviously trying it here, but that doesn’t seem like a bad number at all to me.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我的意思是，当您考虑到这里的免费内容和免费新闻内容数量之多，甚至引入这种模型时，面临的挑战是严峻的，我认为这是很多人的信徒。 我们已经看到过这种情况，我想我讨厌使用失败一词，但是失败很多，出版了很多不同的出版物，显然有人在这里尝试过，但这似乎并不是一个坏数字。我。
Kevin: The 90 percent number I really can’t fathom how The Guardian gets that. Other numbers I’ve seen tossed around is that they’ve lost two-thirds of their readership which seems to make more sense to me because according to those Hitwise stats they’ve dropped from 15 percent of UK browsing, or UK browsing of newspaper sites, down to 4.16 percent, so they’ve lost more than two-thirds of their traffic there. And so that seems to be the sensible number to me. But that’s not so bad if you’ve gone from giving away your content to 100 percent of the people to getting 33 percent of those people to pay for it that seems like a success story on the surface of it, but what you have to consider is that these sites are not just making money from people paying from their content, they’re making money from advertising, and losing two-thirds of your audience when your main revenue stream is advertising is disastrous. I know if SitePoint lost two-thirds of its viewership within the space of three weeks we’d have to go out of business.
凯文：我真的不知道90％的数字是《卫报》如何得到的。 我看到的其他数字是，他们失去了三分之二的读者，这对我来说似乎更有意义，因为根据Hitwise的统计数据，他们已经从英国浏览量的15％或英国报纸浏览量的15％下降网站，下降到4.16％，因此他们在那里丢失了三分之二以上的流量。 对我来说，这似乎是明智的数字。 但是，如果您已经从将内容分发给100％的人，到让33％的人为之付钱，这看起来似乎是成功的故事，那还不错，但是您必须考虑的是就是这些网站不仅是从以内容付费的人那里赚钱，而且还从广告中赚钱，而当您的主要收入来源是广告带来灾难性的损失时，您将失去三分之二的受众。 我知道，如果SitePoint在三周内失去了三分之二的收视率，我们将不得不倒闭。
Patrick: We’d have no more podcast.
帕特里克：我们再也没有播客了。
Kevin: Yeah, definitely not.
凯文：是的，绝对不是。
Patrick: But I think it really depends on how you make your money, right, I think obviously they must not be happy with their ad revenue or at least they want to experiment or they’re not happy enough to just try an experiment. And there is a number that’s being thrown out there; The Guardian article cites a reported beehivecity.com, and they say, and I don’t know exactly where this data is coming from, but this is their analysis of the figures is that 15,000 people have agreed to pay money. Now they upgraded the story to say official sources say that the number is, in fact, is somewhat higher, but if you take that 15,000 number as The Guardian did and you multiply that by the two pounds a week, that’s 120,000 pounds a month or 1.4 million pounds a year. Now, if you cut your viewership by 66 percent I would think they could sell ads for that amount, but then again I’m not in their shoes.
帕特里克：但是，我认为这确实取决于您的赚钱方式，对，我认为他们显然不能对广告收入感到满意，或者至少他们要进行实验，或者他们对尝试进行实验并不满意。 还有一个数字被扔在那里。 《卫报》的文章援引了报道的beehivecity.com的话，他们说，我不知道这些数据的确切来源，但这是他们对这些数据的分析，因为有15,000人同意付款。 现在他们升级了这个故事，说官方消息说，这个数字实际上要高一些，但是，如果您像《卫报》那样拿这个15,000的数字，然后将其乘以每周两英镑，那么每月就是12万英镑。每年140万磅。 现在，如果您将观看人数减少66％，我会认为他们可以卖出那么多的广告，但是我再也不会陷入困境。
Brad: You know not only are they losing their current readership, but they’re also probably not gaining many new readers because I mean they’re killing themselves in the search engines by what they’re doing. I mean if you look right now they’ve apparently lost their page rank, I’m assuming they had one, and they have a page rank zero right now which a site at this level should be much higher than that. They have just a few thousand links indexed in Google, but if you check the cache they’re all blank, so I would imagine those are going to drop out eventually. So they’re going to go down to having just their home page indexed in Google and essentially kill any kind of search traffic they were getting which would essentially turn into new readership.
布拉德：您知道，他们不仅失去了当前的读者群，而且还可能没有获得许多新读者，因为我的意思是他们正在通过自己的工作在搜索引擎中自杀。 我的意思是，如果您现在看，他们显然已经失去了页面排名，我假设他们拥有一个页面排名，并且他们现在的页面排名为零，那么该级别的网站应该比这高得多。 他们只有几千个链接在Google中建立了索引，但是如果您检查缓存，它们都是空白的，因此我想这些最终将消失。 因此，他们打算只在Google中为其首页建立索引，并从根本上消除他们获得的任何搜索流量，这些搜索流量实际上会变成新的读者群。
Kevin: I didn’t even believe they did that, when I first read this story I thought surely they’re doing what the New York Times, for example, is trying which is that they let Google through the paywall and they ask everyone else to pay. And if you’re smart enough to reconfigure your browser so that it looks like the Google Spider well then good luck to you, you get to read everything for free. But, no, if that’s to be believed, if they’ve got blank pages in Google’s cache, man, they’re just basically taking themselves out of the search engine ranking game, and they’re saying we’re going to find our traffic some other way.
凯文：我什至不相信他们会那样做，当我第一次读到这个故事时，我以为他们肯定在做《纽约时报》正在尝试的事情，那就是他们让Google通过付费专区，然后问其他所有人支付。 而且，如果您足够聪明，可以重新配置浏览器，使其看起来像Google Spider，那么祝您好运，您就可以免费阅读所有内容。 但是，不，如果可以相信的话，如果他们在Google的缓存中有空白页，伙计们，他们基本上是从搜索引擎排名游戏中脱颖而出，他们说我们将找到我们的网站。以其他方式进行交易。
Patrick: And there’s a case to be made on both sides, but Techdirt published a story by imafish, I believe is the name, that’s the author on this article, but basically imafish goes kind of point, counterpoint, in a way, with a story written by someone over at the bigmoney.com, Marion Maneker, talking about why arguments used against pay walls are illogical. I guess his three main points that are cited here, the first point is that even with ad revenues, even if they are coming back, as we’ve heard ad revenues are coming up a little bit, they should still diversify and try charging anyway, try other revenue models. The second point is that charging for content has always been a part of the news outlets’ overall long-term strategy. And the third point in there is that any media strategy should have the idea of charging content as part of it. And, of course, there are rebukes for all three of those points here.
帕特里克(Patrick)：双方都有一个案例，但Techdirt发表了imafish的故事 ，我相信是这个名字，即这篇文章的作者，但从本质上讲，imafish在某种意义上是对立的由bigmoney.com上的某人Marion Maneker撰写的故事，谈到为何使用薪酬壁垒的论点是不合逻辑的。 我想这里引用了他的三个要点，第一点是，即使广告收入有所增长，即使它们又恢复了增长，因为我们听说广告收入有所增长，但它们仍应多样化并尝试收费，请尝试其他收入模式。 The second point is that charging for content has always been a part of the news outlets' overall long-term strategy. And the third point in there is that any media strategy should have the idea of charging content as part of it. And, of course, there are rebukes for all three of those points here.
Kevin: They all kind of sound like the same thing. They should charge because they should charge.
Kevin: They all kind of sound like the same thing. They should charge because they should charge.
Patrick: Right. So the idea of a paywall or pay for content its not all depending on this one case, I guess is what I’m trying to say here, where there’s a lot of cases out there where charging over content is working. It really depends on what you’re charging for, you know, the audience, and then what is out there competition-wise, and how much you’re charging. I mean I would cite an example like ESPN, if you ask the average person, at least in the U.S., who the leader is in free content online for sports, I bet a high percentage would say ESPN. But, ESPN has the ESPN Insider feature where they have a lot of content behind a paywall; they have a lot of content by some of their premium writers, writers that people are coming to the site to see, that is behind this paywall. And they’ve bundled it with their ESPN magazine subscription; they have besides that article access, they also get access to extra tools that people can use, fantasy sports tools, and so on, and then they get the ESPN magazine subscription, they can sign up for $39.95 a year or $59.95 for two years. And they get that Insider access; you can’t visit that content any other way besides having that subscriber access. And they also maintain their print advertising base by doing that because they can sell ads in the newspaper, they sell ads on the website, but they also have that premium content. So that’s a good example of a mix right there, paywall and non-paywall, working very well because ESPN could be seen as a leader in sort of both regards.
帕特里克：对。 So the idea of a paywall or pay for content its not all depending on this one case, I guess is what I'm trying to say here, where there's a lot of cases out there where charging over content is working. It really depends on what you're charging for, you know, the audience, and then what is out there competition-wise, and how much you're charging. I mean I would cite an example like ESPN, if you ask the average person, at least in the US, who the leader is in free content online for sports, I bet a high percentage would say ESPN. But, ESPN has the ESPN Insider feature where they have a lot of content behind a paywall; they have a lot of content by some of their premium writers, writers that people are coming to the site to see, that is behind this paywall. And they've bundled it with their ESPN magazine subscription; they have besides that article access, they also get access to extra tools that people can use, fantasy sports tools, and so on, and then they get the ESPN magazine subscription, they can sign up for $39.95 a year or $59.95 for two years. And they get that Insider access; you can't visit that content any other way besides having that subscriber access. And they also maintain their print advertising base by doing that because they can sell ads in the newspaper, they sell ads on the website, but they also have that premium content. So that's a good example of a mix right there, paywall and non-paywall, working very well because ESPN could be seen as a leader in sort of both regards.
Kevin: So there’s a balance to be struck, and it sounds like The Times, as an experiment, they’ve tried one extreme give it all away online, they’re trying the other extreme, don’t give anything away online, and maybe there is a balance to be struck there. Maybe, as you say, the news should be free, the editorial, the stuff that’s written with personality by recognized names that people will seek out maybe that’s what you pay for, and you can pay for that online rather than in print if you want to. I guess I’ve always, I’ve had this certain amount of respect for outfits like The Times who are willing to take the risk and try something out because someone has to. We can’t just, the content producers of the world can’t just allow that expectation that everything that’s online is going to be free to sail through unchallenged, we need to try some alternatives and figure out what’s going to work best, what’s going to produce the best content for the most people, and it’s nice to see experiments like this being tried.
Kevin: So there's a balance to be struck, and it sounds like The Times, as an experiment, they've tried one extreme give it all away online, they're trying the other extreme, don't give anything away online, and maybe there is a balance to be struck there. Maybe, as you say, the news should be free, the editorial, the stuff that's written with personality by recognized names that people will seek out maybe that's what you pay for, and you can pay for that online rather than in print if you want to. I guess I've always, I've had this certain amount of respect for outfits like The Times who are willing to take the risk and try something out because someone has to. We can't just, the content producers of the world can't just allow that expectation that everything that's online is going to be free to sail through unchallenged, we need to try some alternatives and figure out what's going to work best, what's going to produce the best content for the most people, and it's nice to see experiments like this being tried.
Patrick: I agree. I really agree because, and this is something that I’ve seen Techdirt do before with someone experimenting because, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Common Craft, but they introduced a model where there is a web license for displaying their videos on your website. They’re very high-quality produced videos. So it’s definitely an experiment, but they wrote an article that was just scathing about it, but if no one experiments we never really get better and we’re always stuck just doing what we’re doing now, so I definitely agree with you.
Patrick: I agree. I really agree because, and this is something that I've seen Techdirt do before with someone experimenting because, I don't know if you're familiar with Common Craft, but they introduced a model where there is a web license for displaying their videos on your website. They're very high-quality produced videos. So it's definitely an experiment, but they wrote an article that was just scathing about it, but if no one experiments we never really get better and we're always stuck just doing what we're doing now, so I definitely agree with you.
Kevin: Yeah, so The Times, you know, do it for another couple of weeks and then maybe reevaluate (laughs).
Kevin: Yeah, so The Times, you know, do it for another couple of weeks and then maybe reevaluate (laughs).
Patrick: Thanks for the experiment.
Patrick: Thanks for the experiment.
Kevin: Thanks for the experiment; I’m glad it’s not my money.
Kevin: Thanks for the experiment; I'm glad it's not my money.
Patrick: I would compare even the SitePoint courses in a very small way because it wouldn’t be crazy for me to think that at one time SitePoint may have considered, or it may have even published, can’t read every article on the site, basic course material; I mean obviously popular articles have turned into books. I know your article about database driven website stuff did that a long time ago.
Patrick: I would compare even the SitePoint courses in a very small way because it wouldn't be crazy for me to think that at one time SitePoint may have considered, or it may have even published, can't read every article on the site, basic course material; I mean obviously popular articles have turned into books. I know your article about database driven website stuff did that a long time ago.
So SitePoint’s charging for this course material, charging for paid content on top of offering free content on the same things, and people are clamoring for it as well. So I think that’s the same kind of balance right there, you know, you, Kevin Yank, are the high-profile writer that people want to pay for.
So SitePoint's charging for this course material, charging for paid content on top of offering free content on the same things, and people are clamoring for it as well. So I think that's the same kind of balance right there, you know, you, Kevin Yank, are the high-profile writer that people want to pay for.
Kevin: They need to master the up-sale, The Times, they need to get their free content out there, and at the end of every single one, “Want to read more? Check out our online video series by noted author such and such.”
Kevin: They need to master the up-sale, The Times, they need to get their free content out there, and at the end of every single one, “Want to read more? Check out our online video series by noted author such and such.”
Stephan: They need to do what the Wall Street Journal does which is just like what you said, they have free content and then they have articles that are — you get like a little blurb and then down at the bottom it says you can read the entire article by subscribing. And I guess it draws in people because the Wall Street Journal’s been doing it for a while now.
Stephan: They need to do what the Wall Street Journal does which is just like what you said, they have free content and then they have articles that are — you get like a little blurb and then down at the bottom it says you can read the entire article by subscribing. And I guess it draws in people because the Wall Street Journal's been doing it for a while now.
Kevin: Just to put a little button on this story before we go to our host spotlights, speaking of Techdirt, that’s a site that I read pretty much daily because I appreciate their enthusiasm for these things. But they posted an article that has dredged up a letter that was sent to noted pop artist Andy Warhol, who you might remember from his many paintings of Campbell’s Soup cans and Marilyn Monroe, and Marilyn Monroe on Campbell’s Soup cans, and Campbell’s Soup cans on Marilyn Monroe, but the Campbell’s Soup Company on May 19th, 1964 sent this letter, this typewritten letter, to “Mr. A. Warhol” saying, “Dear Mr. Warhol, I have followed your career for some time. Your work has evoked a great deal of interest here at Campbell’s Soup Company for obvious reasons.” And if I was reading this letter today you’d go, alright, the legal threats are about to start, which lawyer’s firm is this from? But, no, it goes on to say “At one time I had hoped to be able to acquire one of your Campbell’s Soup label paintings, but I’m afraid you have gotten much too expensive for me. I did want to tell you, however, that we admired your work, and I have since learned that you like tomato soup. I am taking the liberty of having a couple of cans,” see, I couldn’t even read this without my mouth wanting to say “cease and desist.”
Kevin: Just to put a little button on this story before we go to our host spotlights, speaking of Techdirt, that's a site that I read pretty much daily because I appreciate their enthusiasm for these things. But they posted an article that has dredged up a letter that was sent to noted pop artist Andy Warhol, who you might remember from his many paintings of Campbell's Soup cans and Marilyn Monroe, and Marilyn Monroe on Campbell's Soup cans, and Campbell's Soup cans on Marilyn Monroe, but the Campbell's Soup Company on May 19th, 1964 sent this letter, this typewritten letter, to “Mr. A. Warhol” saying, “Dear Mr. Warhol, I have followed your career for some time. Your work has evoked a great deal of interest here at Campbell's Soup Company for obvious reasons.” And if I was reading this letter today you'd go, alright, the legal threats are about to start, which lawyer's firm is this from? But, no, it goes on to say “At one time I had hoped to be able to acquire one of your Campbell's Soup label paintings, but I'm afraid you have gotten much too expensive for me. I did want to tell you, however, that we admired your work, and I have since learned that you like tomato soup. I am taking the liberty of having a couple of cans,” see, I couldn't even read this without my mouth wanting to say “cease and desist.”
Patrick: Not just cans but cases, cases!
Patrick: Not just cans but cases, cases!
Kevin: Cases! — “cases of our tomato soup delivered to you at this address. We wish you continued success and good fortune. Cordially, William P. MacFarland, Product Marketing Manager.” There you go. That would never happen today.
Kevin: Cases! — “cases of our tomato soup delivered to you at this address. We wish you continued success and good fortune. Cordially, William P. MacFarland, Product Marketing Manager.” 妳去 That would never happen today.
Patrick: You know, I don’t know, I like to have a positive outlook on things, and I think there are some people out there who would do this. Now maybe they would be a lot less today, but I still think there are people out there who maybe would have this tone and see the value of it. I have hope for humanity.
Patrick: You know, I don't know, I like to have a positive outlook on things, and I think there are some people out there who would do this. Now maybe they would be a lot less today, but I still think there are people out there who maybe would have this tone and see the value of it. I have hope for humanity.
Stephan: There is actually a really good book about this type of thing, it’s called The Death of Common Sense, it’s by a guy named Philip K. Howard, and he actually gave a TED Talk on this topic as well. But the book is really good; it talks about how law is suffocating America and things, and I’m not going to go into the politics side, but his basic premise is that as we’ve gone forward we’ve gotten lawsuits and people have to protect their trademarks and their copyrights and things, and to do so they have to enforce cease and desists on people.
Stephan: There is actually a really good book about this type of thing, it's called The Death of Common Sense , it's by a guy named Philip K. Howard, and he actually gave a TED Talk on this topic as well. But the book is really good; it talks about how law is suffocating America and things, and I'm not going to go into the politics side, but his basic premise is that as we've gone forward we've gotten lawsuits and people have to protect their trademarks and their copyrights and things, and to do so they have to enforce cease and desists on people.
Patrick: I’m a big fan of common sense enforcement of those things, and that’s probably what the book talks about because that’s in the title, but I use the example of fan groups and fan sites online, and the need to sort of defend the trademark when it comes to different presences and domain names and whatnot, and then having the presence of mind to do a kind of a risk and reward analysis of how valuable this is and what we’re doing. And instead of sending a cease and desist maybe just licensing it, you know, or making it okay rather than just threatening. That’s definitely the way to go these days with a lot of these cases where people just send out a boilerplate.
Patrick: I'm a big fan of common sense enforcement of those things, and that's probably what the book talks about because that's in the title, but I use the example of fan groups and fan sites online, and the need to sort of defend the trademark when it comes to different presences and domain names and whatnot, and then having the presence of mind to do a kind of a risk and reward analysis of how valuable this is and what we're doing. And instead of sending a cease and desist maybe just licensing it, you know, or making it okay rather than just threatening. That's definitely the way to go these days with a lot of these cases where people just send out a boilerplate.
Kevin: That’s a great point, Patrick. I was reading a story yesterday similar in theme; it was the latest episode of Mad Men, the fourth season of which is hugely popular at the moment. But the latest episode had historical nuts up in arms because the character Don Draper, and I may be setting us up for a cease and desist of our own just by talking about this, but the character Don Draper in a scene was watching TV on a Sunday night, and the sound you could hear of the show he was watching was a football game, and the historical folks were up in arms because Sunday Night Football didn’t start until 1970-something and the story is set in 1964, I believe. And the producers of the show went, yeah, we wanted to have a hockey game on in that scene, but we couldn’t get the rights to use the sound of the hockey match, and so we had to use the football game instead. And some people say, yeah, that’s alright, that’s not actually going to affect the show, what sound was on in the background in any particular scene, but, yeah, where’s the common sense? I think this story was on Boing Boing where I read it, and they said what harm would it actually do to the company that owns the rights to that hockey game to have had their sound played in that scene? Nothing. And so if we could convince these companies instead of sending cease and desists, send free licenses. Say we were made aware that you were using our copyrighted material in this thing, here’s a license just so it’s on the up and up, so that the next time we want to fight a copyright infringement that is actually harmful to us we can say, look, we were aware of that thing, we defended it by licensing it for free.
Kevin: That's a great point, Patrick. I was reading a story yesterday similar in theme; it was the latest episode of Mad Men, the fourth season of which is hugely popular at the moment. But the latest episode had historical nuts up in arms because the character Don Draper, and I may be setting us up for a cease and desist of our own just by talking about this, but the character Don Draper in a scene was watching TV on a Sunday night, and the sound you could hear of the show he was watching was a football game, and the historical folks were up in arms because Sunday Night Football didn't start until 1970-something and the story is set in 1964, I believe. And the producers of the show went, yeah, we wanted to have a hockey game on in that scene, but we couldn't get the rights to use the sound of the hockey match, and so we had to use the football game instead. And some people say, yeah, that's alright, that's not actually going to affect the show, what sound was on in the background in any particular scene, but, yeah, where's the common sense? I think this story was on Boing Boing where I read it, and they said what harm would it actually do to the company that owns the rights to that hockey game to have had their sound played in that scene? 没有。 And so if we could convince these companies instead of sending cease and desists, send free licenses. Say we were made aware that you were using our copyrighted material in this thing, here's a license just so it's on the up and up, so that the next time we want to fight a copyright infringement that is actually harmful to us we can say, look, we were aware of that thing, we defended it by licensing it for free.
Stephan: Yep. I’m actually surprised they were able to use the NFL sounds as the background of the game.
斯蒂芬：是的 。 I'm actually surprised they were able to use the NFL sounds as the background of the game.
Kevin: Yeah. I guess the NFL has more liberal copyright policies on their archives.
凯文：是的。 I guess the NFL has more liberal copyright policies on their archives.
Patrick: “Without the express written consent of the National Football League.”
Patrick: “Without the express written consent of the National Football League.”
Kevin: Alright, well, yeah, it feels like we’ve been on a mini host spotlight for the last ten minutes, but I enjoyed that. Let’s get around to our actual host spotlights, Brad, what have you got for the fine people today?
Kevin: Alright, well, yeah, it feels like we've been on a mini host spotlight for the last ten minutes, but I enjoyed that. Let's get around to our actual host spotlights, Brad, what have you got for the fine people today?
Brad: Yeah, I have a fun little website like I always like to have, and it is actually called whatthefudgeismysocialmediastrategy, only I didn’t say “fudge.”
Brad: Yeah, I have a fun little website like I always like to have, and it is actually called whatthefudgeismysocialmediastrategy, only I didn't say “fudge.”
Brad: No.
布拉德：不。
Patrick: So you’re actually spelling the wrong domain name. You’re sending people to a dead link.
Patrick: So you're actually spelling the wrong domain name. You're sending people to a dead link.
Brad: Yes. So, register that and you’ll make millions. (Laughter). But the site’s really funny, it’s clever; it’s basically like three pages big and this guy put this site together and essentially what it does is it mixes words, there’s a column of verbs and a column of nouns, and it takes one word from each to form sentences that make simple things sound more complicated than they are. And voila, you have a fancy sounding strategy that you can put in your presentations. As an example, the first one to load up for me was “Maximize buzz by driving word of mouth from relevant influencers,” which if you read these they ultimately make no sense but they sound very intelligent.
Brad: Yes. So, register that and you'll make millions. (笑声)。 But the site's really funny, it's clever; it's basically like three pages big and this guy put this site together and essentially what it does is it mixes words, there's a column of verbs and a column of nouns, and it takes one word from each to form sentences that make simple things sound more complicated than they are. And voila, you have a fancy sounding strategy that you can put in your presentations. As an example, the first one to load up for me was “Maximize buzz by driving word of mouth from relevant influencers,” which if you read these they ultimately make no sense but they sound very intelligent.
Kevin: (Laughs) I got “Drive breakthrough conversations with an engaging viral.”
Kevin: (Laughs) I got “Drive breakthrough conversations with an engaging viral.”
Patrick: “Harness social currency to drive buzz.”
Patrick: “Harness social currency to drive buzz.”
Brad: Yeah, you can keep refreshing to get more and more, but it’s pretty clever and I think anyone that has anything to do with social media or social marketing or I guess the Internet in general, has probably come across some of these terms and phrases that really make no sense at all, so you can go to the site and get a quick social media strategy for your next presentation.
Brad: Yeah, you can keep refreshing to get more and more, but it's pretty clever and I think anyone that has anything to do with social media or social marketing or I guess the Internet in general, has probably come across some of these terms and phrases that really make no sense at all, so you can go to the site and get a quick social media strategy for your next presentation.
Kevin: Nice. My spotlight is Canto.js, and I’ve been waiting for this to come out since I saw Dmitry Baranovskiy who’s the author of the Raphaël Library for doing cross browser vector graphics with SVG. But he did a conference presentation about the <canvas> tag, and this was at The Edge of the Web Conference last year in Perth. And it’s a shame that that session was not podcast because it was hilarious. People know Dmitry as an expert in web graphics, and so they said, oh, we’d love to hear him give a tutorial about the Canvas tag and tell us about all its hidden features that we don’t know about. And instead he got up and gave a presentation called “Why Canvas Sucks”. And his core point here was that we as web developers have been so starved for meaningful graphic support in browsers that we will lap up anything they give us, and the actual JavaScript API, the programming interface that you have to write code for in order to use Canvas is abusive to web developers, it’s like designed to be the most painful thing that keeps you writing boilerplate code over and over again, and it is completely developer unfriendly, and yet we love the thing because we’ve wanted to do web graphics for two decades now, and so we’ll take anything we can get. So he was saying, he was making a call to action that developers shouldn’t take this lying down, that we need to demand more from the browser makers than just something that works; we need something that makes our jobs easier. And Canto.js is it; this is a JavaScript library that makes Canvas usable from a programming perspective. It sits on top of the ugly Canvas APIs in the browser and gives you a pleasant one. And if you’ve ever switched from writing plain JavaScript to writing something like jQuery code where developers have filled in all the rough spots of the JavaScript language with pleasant-to-use features that make your job easier, this is like jQuery for the Canvas tag. It is really, really slick, you can chain function calls together, you can tell it to draw a whole bunch of things and then set the properties of those things all at once, it is really, really nice in a way that the Canvas tag API is really, really not. So check it out if you’re thinking of doing graphics with the <canvas> tag, it’ll save you some hair pulling.
Kevin: Nice. My spotlight is Canto.js , and I've been waiting for this to come out since I saw Dmitry Baranovskiy who's the author of the Raphaël Library for doing cross browser vector graphics with SVG. But he did a conference presentation about the <canvas> tag, and this was at The Edge of the Web Conference last year in Perth. And it's a shame that that session was not podcast because it was hilarious. People know Dmitry as an expert in web graphics, and so they said, oh, we'd love to hear him give a tutorial about the Canvas tag and tell us about all its hidden features that we don't know about. And instead he got up and gave a presentation called “Why Canvas Sucks”. And his core point here was that we as web developers have been so starved for meaningful graphic support in browsers that we will lap up anything they give us, and the actual JavaScript API, the programming interface that you have to write code for in order to use Canvas is abusive to web developers, it's like designed to be the most painful thing that keeps you writing boilerplate code over and over again, and it is completely developer unfriendly, and yet we love the thing because we've wanted to do web graphics for two decades now, and so we'll take anything we can get. So he was saying, he was making a call to action that developers shouldn't take this lying down, that we need to demand more from the browser makers than just something that works; we need something that makes our jobs easier. And Canto.js is it; this is a JavaScript library that makes Canvas usable from a programming perspective. It sits on top of the ugly Canvas APIs in the browser and gives you a pleasant one. And if you've ever switched from writing plain JavaScript to writing something like jQuery code where developers have filled in all the rough spots of the JavaScript language with pleasant-to-use features that make your job easier, this is like jQuery for the Canvas tag. It is really, really slick, you can chain function calls together, you can tell it to draw a whole bunch of things and then set the properties of those things all at once, it is really, really nice in a way that the Canvas tag API is really, really not. So check it out if you're thinking of doing graphics with the <canvas> tag, it'll save you some hair pulling.
Patrick what have you got?
Patrick what have you got?
Patrick: Well, my spotlight, which I chose a long, long time ago, many days ago, no, I’m kidding, but is a post by Brandon Ely who is SitePoint book co-author and SitePoint Tribune co-writer. He wrote a post on his personal blog titled, Why the 3/50 Project Can’t Save Small Businesses, and this was the first I heard of this. But apparently there’s a project called 3/50, that’s 3/50, aimed at helping local businesses, your local economy. The 3 comes from think about three independently owned stores you’d miss if they were gone, stop in, say hello, buy something, etcetera. The 50 is just if half of the employed population spent $50.00 a month in independently owned stores those purchases would generate over forty-two billion dollars. And then that’s the 3 and the 50, and they have some more numbers from there on, but his post kind of goes over why there are other factors involved in this, how it’s not just good to go to any local business and throw money at them when they don’t offer good service or they don’t try to price their products competitively, and why it’s more complicated than just saying go to the local store because then the money stays here. Obviously companies these days, large companies, have many presences in many areas and the money flows all around. So, anyway, longwinded but it’s a nice post and I thought it was pretty insightful.
Patrick: Well, my spotlight, which I chose a long, long time ago, many days ago, no, I'm kidding, but is a post by Brandon Ely who is SitePoint book co-author and SitePoint Tribune co-writer. He wrote a post on his personal blog titled, Why the 3/50 Project Can't Save Small Businesses , and this was the first I heard of this. But apparently there's a project called 3/50, that's 3/50, aimed at helping local businesses, your local economy. The 3 comes from think about three independently owned stores you'd miss if they were gone, stop in, say hello, buy something, etcetera. The 50 is just if half of the employed population spent $50.00 a month in independently owned stores those purchases would generate over forty-two billion dollars. And then that's the 3 and the 50, and they have some more numbers from there on, but his post kind of goes over why there are other factors involved in this, how it's not just good to go to any local business and throw money at them when they don't offer good service or they don't try to price their products competitively, and why it's more complicated than just saying go to the local store because then the money stays here. Obviously companies these days, large companies, have many presences in many areas and the money flows all around. So, anyway, longwinded but it's a nice post and I thought it was pretty insightful.
Kevin: I like to think that the local businesses worth saving are going to be supported because they’re good businesses, so I kind of agree with him. Stephan?
Kevin: I like to think that the local businesses worth saving are going to be supported because they're good businesses, so I kind of agree with him. 斯蒂芬？
Stephan: Well, during the last show I was out of the country and I had to get some stuff done with some people and I needed to figure out time zones and stuff, but I was just on my iPhone, it was all I had, and it was much more difficult than it actually seems because you think you can just go into the clock and figure out what time it is in a different place and stuff. But trying to send an email and tell people here’s when we’re going to meet, or whatever, is much harder. And then I get home and I go on to sitepoint.com and there’s a post by, it’s in a dark dungeon part of the forum, by Black Max who’s an advisor, about a service called Permatime. And it’s just a simple website that — it’s permatime.com, and you set your location and you give it a time and it creates a link and it will — you send it out to whoever you want to send it out to and it conforms to their time zone.
Stephan: Well, during the last show I was out of the country and I had to get some stuff done with some people and I needed to figure out time zones and stuff, but I was just on my iPhone, it was all I had, and it was much more difficult than it actually seems because you think you can just go into the clock and figure out what time it is in a different place and stuff. But trying to send an email and tell people here's when we're going to meet, or whatever, is much harder. And then I get home and I go on to sitepoint.com and there's a post by, it's in a dark dungeon part of the forum, by Black Max who's an advisor, about a service called Permatime . And it's just a simple website that — it's permatime.com, and you set your location and you give it a time and it creates a link and it will — you send it out to whoever you want to send it out to and it conforms to their time zone.
Kevin: Oh, so it’s like a permalink, that’s why it’s called Permatime.
Kevin: Oh, so it's like a permalink, that's why it's called Permatime.
Stephan: It’s like a permanent link to a time, and so it’s actually really useful and I could’ve actually really used it while I was overseas and I wish I had known about it, but it’s a neat little service if you have to do stuff across the globe.
Stephan: It's like a permanent link to a time, and so it's actually really useful and I could've actually really used it while I was overseas and I wish I had known about it, but it's a neat little service if you have to do stuff across the globe.
Kevin: Are you able to tell what time the time you’ve picked is in another time zone using this?
Kevin: Are you able to tell what time the time you've picked is in another time zone using this?
Kevin: It looks like you can set your location after the fact, so you can pick a time in your own and then change your location, so that would probably work.
Kevin: It looks like you can set your location after the fact, so you can pick a time in your own and then change your location, so that would probably work.
Stephan: Yeah, and then I just send you the link and if it’s — yeah, you can move it around and then add another location, and yeah you can see what time it was then.
Stephan: Yeah, and then I just send you the link and if it's — yeah, you can move it around and then add another location, and yeah you can see what time it was then.
Kevin: Beautiful. Aw, I dig it. I dig it. This is something you will need if ever you have a podcast of your own listeners. (Laughs) Because it’s always changing and, yeah, especially if you’re dealing with people in the northern and southern hemisphere, the differences between time zones change at different times of the year. So, thank you Permatime, and thank you Stephan.
Kevin: Beautiful. Aw, I dig it. I dig it. This is something you will need if ever you have a podcast of your own listeners. (Laughs) Because it's always changing and, yeah, especially if you're dealing with people in the northern and southern hemisphere, the differences between time zones change at different times of the year. So, thank you Permatime, and thank you Stephan.
That’s it for this episode. Our hosts this week, guys, I understand you’ve got some things coming up, so maybe as we go around the table talk about where you’ll be in the next couple months. Patrick?
That's it for this episode. Our hosts this week, guys, I understand you've got some things coming up, so maybe as we go around the table talk about where you'll be in the next couple months. Patrick?
Patrick: Sure, thanks. Well, I will be at a couple different locations, briefly, September 9th-11th I’m in Atlanta for Modern Media Man Summit, October 1st-2nd in Greensboro North Carolina for Converge South, October 14th-16th in Las Vegas for BlogWorld and New Media Expo, and November 13th in Raleigh for Indieconf; presenting at all those locations, speaking, so if you’re in any of those areas please stop by and say hello. I’m on Twitter @iFroggy, and I run the iFroggy Network, iFroggy.com.
Patrick: Sure, thanks. Well, I will be at a couple different locations, briefly, September 9th-11th I'm in Atlanta for Modern Media Man Summit , October 1st-2nd in Greensboro North Carolina for Converge South , October 14th-16th in Las Vegas for BlogWorld and New Media Expo , and November 13th in Raleigh for Indieconf ; presenting at all those locations, speaking, so if you're in any of those areas please stop by and say hello. I'm on Twitter @iFroggy , and I run the iFroggy Network, iFroggy.com .
Brad: I’ll actually be at WordCamp Mid-Atlantic on 9/11, and I’m also going to BlogWorld Expo so we’ll all be there to hang out so you can track me and Patrick down.
Brad: I'll actually be at WordCamp Mid-Atlantic on 9/11, and I'm also going to BlogWorld Expo so we'll all be there to hang out so you can track me and Patrick down.
Patrick: Stephan will be there as well.
Patrick: Stephan will be there as well.
Brad: Oh, all three of us, so track us down. And then I’m helping co-organize WordCamp Philly which is October 30th on the day before Halloween so that should be fun, and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba.
Brad: Oh, all three of us, so track us down. And then I'm helping co-organize WordCamp Philly which is October 30th on the day before Halloween so that should be fun, and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba .
Stephan: And this weekend is WordCamp Houston, so if you’re in Houston and you want to say hello I will be there. I’m Stephan Segraves and my blog is badice.com.
Stephan: And this weekend is WordCamp Houston , so if you're in Houston and you want to say hello I will be there. I'm Stephan Segraves and my blog is badice.com .
Kevin: And I’ll be at Web Directions South again this year in Sydney, so if you are an Australian listener be sure and stop by and say hello. You can follow me on Twitter @sentience, and follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom. Visit us at the SitePoint Podcast website which is sitepoint.com/podcast or you can just go to sitepoint.com and click the fresh new Podcast tab, we have one at last. Leave comments on the show and be sure to subscribe so you get every show automatically.
Kevin: And I'll be at Web Directions South again this year in Sydney, so if you are an Australian listener be sure and stop by and say hello. You can follow me on Twitter @sentience , and follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom . Visit us at the SitePoint Podcast website which is sitepoint.com/podcast or you can just go to sitepoint.com and click the fresh new Podcast tab, we have one at last. Leave comments on the show and be sure to subscribe so you get every show automatically.
The SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker and I’m Kevin Yank. Thanks for listening. Bye.
The SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker and I'm Kevin Yank. 谢谢收听。 再见
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Theme music by Mike Mella .
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we're doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
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