SitePoint播客＃141：Pygg和Andy White

Episode 141 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week our regular interview host Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict) interviews Andy White (@arcwhite) from startup incubator Pollenizer on their social payment startup, Pygg.

SitePoint Podcast的第141集现已发布！ 本周，我们的定期采访主持人Louis Simoneau( @rssaddict )对初创企业孵化器Pollenizer的Andy White( @arcwhite )进行了社交支付初创企业Pygg的采访 。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #141: Pygg with Andy White (MP3, 27:00, 25.9MB)

  SitePoint Podcast＃141：Pygg和Andy White (MP3，27:00，25.9MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Andy and Louis discuss the challenges of getting a social payment system up and running technically, and getting people to take it up and use it.

安迪(Andy)和路易斯(Louis)讨论了建立社会支付系统并在技术上运行并让人们使用它并使用它所面临的挑战。

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/141.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/141中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Louis: Hello and welcome to another episode of the SitePoint Podcast. My guest on the show this week is a web developer from right here in Australia who’s the technical lead on a very cool little web startup called Pygg, that’s p-y-g-g, Andy White. Hi and welcome to the show, Andy.

路易斯：您好，欢迎收看SitePoint播客的另一集。 我本周在展会上的客人是一位来自澳大利亚的网络开发人员，他是一家非常酷的小型网络创业公司Pygg(即pygg和Andy White)的技术负责人。 嗨，欢迎收看节目，安迪。

Andy: Hi, Louis, thank you for having me.

安迪：嗨，路易斯，谢谢你有我。

Louis: How you doing?

路易斯：你好吗？

Andy: Yeah, good, busy as ever. I’m currently migrating the Pygg service to a new Cloud Hosting environment with another local group, Ninefold, so that’s keeping me up until all hours.

安迪：是的，很好，一如既往的忙。 我目前正在与另一个本地组Ninefold一起将Pygg服务迁移到新的Cloud Hosting环境中，从而使我一直保持工作状态。

Louis: Yeah, were you with EC2 previously?

路易斯：是的，您以前使用过EC2吗？

Andy: We have been sort of, the company I work for, Pygg, is part of a startup incubator called Pollenizer, and we’ve used AWS and also Rackspace for a number of projects, Rackspace is Cloud, and we’re trying to rationalize around Ninefold because we target Australian audiences typically with our startups first, and just getting that latency down is a big win.

Andy：我们曾经在Pygg工作的公司属于一家名为Pollenizer的初创企业孵化器，并且我们已经在许多项目中使用了AWS和Rackspace，Rackspace是Cloud，并且我们试图围绕Ninefold进行合理化，因为我们通常首先通过初创公司定位澳大利亚受众，而仅降低延迟是一个巨大的胜利。

Louis: Yeah. So let’s maybe just back peddle a little bit and talk about what Pygg is. So do you want to just give a little bit of background on what this product is and what it does.

路易斯：是的。 因此，让我们稍微回头讨论一下Pygg是什么。 因此，您是否只想对本产品的含义和用途做一点背景说明。

Andy: Yeah, sure. So I mean the elevator pitch for Pygg is that we’re trying to disrupt social payments, we’re trying to change the way that people pass money around to one another, and the long term goal is to disrupt the way people interact with their money and interact with their banks.

安迪：是的，当然。 所以我的意思是，Pygg的电梯策略是，我们正在试图破坏社会支付，我们正在试图改变人们彼此之间进行货币转移的方式，而长期目标是破坏人们与他们之间的互动方式。钱并与银行互动。

Louis: Cool. Let’s take it down from the elevator pitch to maybe the first floor pitch.

路易斯：酷。 让我们把它从电梯的高度降到一楼的高度。

Andy: Yep.

安迪：是的 。

Louis: Which would be how to use it, what do I do with it.

路易斯：那将是如何使用它，我将如何使用它。

Andy: So the current implementation is that if you have a Twitter or an email account you can signup with Pygg and you can send money to anyone else who has a twitter or an email account. At the moment it’s only in Australia but we do have long term plans to go global.

安迪：因此，当前的实现方式是，如果您拥有Twitter或电子邮件帐户，则可以向Pygg注册，然后可以向拥有Twitter或电子邮件帐户的其他任何人汇款。 目前仅在澳大利亚，但我们确实有走向全球的长期计划。

Louis: Right. And you say it’s only in Australia because the way you get money out is to an Australian bank account, right?

路易斯：对。 而且您说这仅在澳大利亚，因为您的提款方式是到澳大利亚的银行帐户，对吗？

Andy: That’s right. And dealing with international currency conversion turns out to be quite a complex process when you’re talking about if I as a user pay you one U.S. dollar what does that mean when you receive it and how do we actually present that to the user in terms of the interface and the messaging. We tried an early experiment around that and it got very complicated very quickly, so our strategy has been to work on the Australian market first while we’re proving the idea, and once we’ve really got our legs underneath us then we’ll jump off and look at potentially the U.S. market or somewhere else.

安迪：是的。 当您谈论如果我作为用户向您支付一美元时，处理国际货币转换将是一个相当复杂的过程，这是什么意思，当您收到时，以及我们如何实际向用户显示接口和消息传递。 我们对此进行了尝试，但很快就变得非常复杂，因此我们的策略一直是在证明这一想法的同时首先在澳大利亚市场上开展业务，一旦真正获得了支持，我们将跳下来看看潜在的美国市场或其他地方。

Louis: Right. So the idea here is I send a tweet to Pygg or do I send a tweet out into the open or to the person I’m sending the money to in theory?

路易斯：对。 因此，这里的想法是我向Pygg发送推文，还是向公众公开发送推文，或者向理论上向我汇款的人发送推文？

Andy: So, we run a Pygg account @pygg, p-y-g-g, and there’s a bit of code that sits there an listens to Twitter on that account, you send a tweet to that account saying who you want to pay the money to and the amount you want to pay, and that little robot will then give you a response to either say it was successful or to invite you to signup or whatever needs to be done, and the person who receives the money just as a result of the way Twitter works gets a notification as well because they’ve been mentioned in the tweet.

安迪：所以，我们运行一个Pygg帐户@pygg，pygg，那里有一些代码，可以收听该帐户上的Twitter，您向该帐户发送一条推文，说出您想向谁付款以及金额您想要付款，然后那个小机器人就会给您答复，说成功或邀请您注册或需要完成任何事情，以及通过Twitter工作方式收到款项的人也会收到通知，因为它们已在推文中提及。

Louis: Right. And if they don’t have a Pygg account so that the next step for them is do they get another reply from Pygg telling them, hey, you’ve got some money in an account, that you can sign-in, create an account and get that out?

路易斯：对。 如果他们没有Pygg帐户，那么下一步是他们会收到Pygg的另一个答复，告诉他们，嘿，您的帐户中有一些钱，您可以登录并创建一个帐户弄出来吗？

Andy: Absolutely. Which can be a little disconcerting for some users we’ve found, they tend to think that it’s some sort of spam setup if they haven’t been sort of briefed on what Pygg is.

安迪：当然。 对于我们发现的某些用户而言，这可能有些令人不安，他们倾向于认为，如果他们没有对Pygg是什么进行简要介绍，那是某种垃圾邮件设置。

Louis: Yeah, right.

路易斯：是的，对。

Andy: But, yeah, we hold onto the money for anyone who doesn’t have an account, and once they signup the funds just appear in their account straightaway.

安迪：但是，是的，我们为没有帐户的任何人保留这笔钱，一旦他们注册，资金便会立即出现在他们的帐户中。

Louis: Right. In order to send the money I create an account at Pygg and I prepay with PayPal or credit card so that I have money in my account and then I can just send that away by using Twitter.

路易斯：对。 为了汇款，我在Pygg创建了一个帐户，然后使用PayPal或信用卡进行了预付款，这样我的帐户中就有了钱，然后我就可以使用Twitter汇款了。

Andy: Correct.

安迪：对 。

Louis: Right. Well, I can definitely see a use case for that in splitting dinner bills when everyone has only plastic and no cash.

路易斯：对。 好吧，当每个人都只有塑料而没有现金的时候，我绝对可以看到在拆分晚餐账单时的用例。

Andy: That’s what we use it for internally quite frequently. Coffee runs are another big one; we’ve developed a new workflow around coffee runs where someone will basically just walk out of the office and say, “Hey, guys, I’m going for a coffee run,” won’t even stop to take orders, by the time they get down to the local coffee shop the orders have appeared in their Twitter timeline, they’ve got the money for them so they just order the coffees on the spot based on what’s in their Twitter timeline and bring them back.

安迪：这就是我们在内部经常使用它的原因。 咖啡冲是另一个大问题。 我们围绕咖啡冲泡开发了一个新的工作流程，基本上有人会走出办公室，然后说：“嘿，伙计们，我要去咖啡冲泡”，到那时还不会停下来下订单。他们到了当地的咖啡店，订单已经出现在他们的Twitter时间轴上，他们已经为他们赚到了钱，所以他们只是根据Twitter时间轴上的时间在现场订购咖啡，然后将它们带回去。

Louis: Right, perfect.

路易斯：对，完美。

Andy: No more dodgy Post-it notes.

安迪：不再有晦涩的便利贴。

Louis: (Laughs) Yeah. And no more excuses for getting the order wrong.

路易斯：(笑)是的。 再也没有借口弄错订单了。

Andy: Exactly.

安迪：是的 。

Louis: So, maybe dive a little bit into the technical details a little bit because I’m curious and I assume a lot of our listeners will be curious about the geeky side of the project, but maybe before that how long have you been working on this and how long has it been available to the public?

路易斯：所以，也许我会好奇一些技术细节，因为我很好奇，并且我想很多听众会对项目的怪异之处感到好奇，但是也许在那之前你工作了多久对此以及向公众开放了多长时间？

Andy: So I’ve been working on it since it would’ve been August I think, so we’re about getting close to being sort of six months in, a bit under six months in; I’m a programmer and my math is obviously not that great, right.

安迪：所以我一直在努力，因为我认为应该是八月，所以我们即将接近六个月，不到六个月。 我是一名程序员，我的数学显然不是那么好，对。

Louis: (Laughs) Just iterate a variable until you get to the right amount and then —

路易斯：(笑)只需迭代一个变量，直到达到正确的数量，然后-

Andy: Yeah, exactly, that’s it, fail fast. It’s been available to the public for probably all but I think seven weeks of that, the first seven weeks we had only a very limited open beta, we were up and running very, very quickly.

安迪：是的，就是这样，很快就失败了。 它可能已面向所有人开放，但我认为其中有七个星期，前七个星期我们只有一个非常有限的公开测试版，我们运行得非常非常快。

Louis: That sounds pretty fast.

路易斯：听起来很快。

Andy: Yeah, the Pollenizer model is that we at the very least have something that we can test within two weeks, and typically we only have 12 weeks to get a business up and running and prove that it’s viable which is an extremely tight timeframe as I’m sure you can imagine. So the early iteration has been built extremely quickly on PHP, we’ve been using Zend which is potentially not my framework of choice.

Andy：是的，Pollenizer模型是我们至少要在两周内进行测试，通常只有12周才能开展业务并证明其可行，这是一个非常紧迫的时间表，因为我相信你可以想象。 因此，早期迭代是在PHP上非常快速地构建的，我们一直在使用Zend，这可能不是我选择的框架。

Louis: That sounds terrifying. I don’t mean to offend any of the Zend guys in the audience but go on.

路易斯：听起来很恐怖。 我并不是要冒犯观众中的任何Zend家伙，而是继续前进。

Andy: Zend definitely has its place in the world, a very rapid turnaround startup in my opinion is probably not the place for something like Zend, but on the flip side if that’s what you know and that’s what you’re comfortable working with then maybe that is the safest choice for you.

Andy： Zend肯定在世界上占有一席之地，在我看来，一个非常快速的周转创业公司可能不是Zend之类的地方，但另一方面，如果这是您所知道的，并且您愿意与之合作，那么也许这对您来说是最安全的选择。

Louis: Well, yeah, especially if you’ve got two weeks to get something up and running, if you’re starting with a framework you don’t know it’ll take you two weeks to learn it.

路易斯：是的，尤其是如果您有两周的时间来启动并运行某些东西，如果您是从框架开始的，则不知道需要花两周的时间来学习它。

Andy: Exactly. So, yeah, at the moment we’re just going through and we’re starting to pull the application apart, we’re rebuilding it with a service oriented architecture, so one of my big missions for the next couple of weeks is to pull most of the business logic out of the web app and into an API layer that will go sort of in between the database and the web server with the long term goal of eventually enabling people to write their own applications that will interact with Pygg.

安迪：是的 。 所以，是的，目前，我们正在研究并开始将应用程序拆开，我们正在使用面向服务的体系结构对其进行重建，因此接下来几周我的主要任务之一就是撤消大多数业务逻辑从Web应用程序进入API层，该层将进入数据库和Web服务器之间，其长期目标是最终使人们能够编写自己的与Pygg进行交互的应用程序。

Louis: Right. So you did mention sort of briefly there that the idea is you’ve got I think you said 12 weeks to prove that it’s a viable business, so what is the business model here, do you charge a fee per transaction or –?

路易斯：对。 因此，您确实在那儿简短地提到了一个主意，我想您说过12周才能证明这是一项可行的业务，那么这里的业务模式是什么，您是否要为每笔交易收取费用？

Andy: Yep. So the actually transactions in between people are completely free and probably our hope is always will be, we charge a nominal fee when you put money into the system which I think at the moment is a flat $2.50.

安迪：是的 。 因此，人与人之间的实际交易是完全免费的，也许我们的希望永远是免费的。当您将钱存入系统时，我们收取象征性的费用，我认为目前这是固定的$ 2.50。

Louis: Right.

路易斯：对。

Andy: And a part of that just goes to cover our costs in processing the transaction, and our goal at the moment isn’t even to make a profit, there’s sort of long term plans around profitability and how the business will work, but step one is just to make sure that we have something that people will use and that they’re happy to use and the business model can follow on from that.

安迪：而且其中一部分只是用来支付我们处理交易的成本，而目前我们的目标甚至不是赚钱，围绕盈利能力和业务运作方式都有一些长期计划，但是要逐步一种是确保我们拥有人们会使用的东西，并且他们乐于使用，并且商业模型可以从中继承下来。

Louis: Yeah. And how have things been going with users, have you seen a fair amount of interest?

路易斯：是的。 以及用户的情况如何，您是否看到了很多兴趣？

Andy: Yeah, actually, a fairly significant amount of interest. Users tend to fall into one or two camps, they’ll take a look at it once and either because we haven’t explained it properly or because it’s not something they want to use or in some cases because we’re using PayPal will walk away very quickly or they get engaged with it and start using it quite extensively, and there are some really interesting groups of users up here in Sydney where one or two people have gotten involved and just fallen in love with it, gotten really passionate about it and then dragged all their friends along as well. So we’re definitely seeing in some cases the network effect which is quite heartening.

安迪：是的，实际上，有相当大的兴趣。 用户倾向于陷入一两个阵营，他们会看一次，或者是因为我们没有正确解释它，或者是因为他们不想使用它，或者在某些情况下，因为我们正在使用PayPal会走路很快就离开了，或者他们开始​​使用它，并开始广泛使用它，在悉尼，这里有一些非常有趣的用户群体，一两个人参与其中并刚爱上它，就变得非常热情然后将他们所有的朋友也拖到一起。 因此，在某些情况下，我们肯定会看到令人振奋的网络效应。

Louis: Yeah, that’s great, and it seems like the kind of thing where if someone demonstrates the usefulness of it and they use it to pay their friends then suddenly that could sort of spread out. I mean you see that happening with things like FourSquare which aren’t even particularly useful, so one would hope if something actually serves a purpose that people would be all over it.

路易斯：是的，这很棒，而且如果有人证明了它的用处并用它来付钱给朋友，这似乎是一种传播。 我的意思是，您看到这种情况在FourSquare之类的应用程序中并不是特别有用，所以人们希望某个东西是否确实能达到人们的目的。

Andy: Yeah, right. I guess the difficulty here is that it’s not always useful until you actually have other people using it, and so our mission for the next couple of weeks, or at least the mission of our customer development team, is to try and get the barrier for entry as low as possible. And long term we’re hoping an iPhone application might make that even easier, but we’ll see how we go on that one.

安迪：是的，对。 我想这里的困难在于，直到您实际有其他人使用它时，它才总是有用的，因此，我们接下来几周的任务，或者至少是我们客户开发团队的任务，是尝试克服障碍。条目越低越好。 从长远来看，我们希望iPhone应用程序可以使此操作变得更加容易，但我们将继续研究该应用程序。

Louis: Right. So you talked a little bit about the technologies that you’ve been working with, so you built it in PHP and Zend, were there any particular challenges given that you’re dealing with money, you’re dealing with potentially things that people view as important from both a security and privacy point of view and that you have to interact with banks and with PayPal, what were the challenges that you guys faced or the most important things that you had to deal with?

路易斯：对。 因此，您谈了一些有关您正在使用的技术的信息，因此您在PHP和Zend中构建了该技术，鉴于您正在处理金钱，是否正在处理人们认为潜在的事物，是否存在任何特殊的挑战？从安全和隐私的角度来看很重要，并且您必须与银行和PayPal进行交互，那么你们面临的挑战是什么，或者您必须应对的最重要的事情是什么？

Andy: Yeah, so early on you know we had to make some decisions around whether we were going to be processing credit card transactions ourselves, and you know we identified that as just being way too risky; anytime you’ve got to take credit card details or interact even with a merchant gateway you end up doing something that to get it right is quite complicated. So we’ve mitigated a lot of that by just pushing the responsibility off to other people and other organizations where we can to try and keep things nice and lean and agile, so we don’t actually store any information, I mean we store email addresses but we don’t store anything more sensitive than your bank account number which in some ways can be a little — I mean people feel a bit funny about putting their bank account number out there, but at the same time it’s very hard to misuse it.

安迪：是的，这么早，您就知道我们必须决定是否要自己处理信用卡交易，而且您知道我们发现这样做风险太大。 每当您需要获取信用卡详细信息或与商户网关进行交互时，最终要做的事情都是正确的。 因此，我们通过将责任推给其他人和其他组织来减轻很多麻烦，我们可以在这些人和组织中尝试保持状况良好，精简和敏捷，因此我们实际上不存储任何信息，我的意思是我们存储电子邮件地址，但我们不会存储比您的银行帐号更敏感的信息，在某些方面它可能会有点少–我的意思是，人们对将自己的银行帐号放在那儿感到有些可笑，但与此同时，很难滥用它。

Louis: Yeah, right. I think the only thing you can do with someone else’s bank account number is give them money.

路易斯：是的，对。 我认为您只能使用别人的银行帐号来给他们钱。

Andy: Right. And, sure okay, great, give me more money; you can misuse that all you like. So a lot of — I wouldn’t say there’s been a lot of technical challenges around that, but it’s definitely been a process of thinking things through and trying to minimize risk exposure and stay as agile as possible. But, yeah, in terms of tracking the consistency of transactions, making sure that if I pay you $5.00 that’s what’s reflected in the database, has been quite a big part of my job, you know there’s a lot of testing that goes into a product like this because like you say you are dealing with money, and the second that we get a transaction wrong or money disappears out of someone’s account without an explanation to them that’s obviously going to be really bad for our users, and we definitely don’t want that.

安迪：对。 而且，当然，很好，给我更多的钱； 您可以滥用自己喜欢的一切。 因此，有很多–我不会说围绕它存在很多技术挑战，但这绝对是一个思考问题并试图最小化风险敞口并保持敏捷的过程。 但是，是的，就跟踪交易的一致性而言，要确保如果我付给您5.00美元(这就是数据库中反映的金额)，这是我工作的很大一部分，那么您会知道产品中会进行很多测试之所以这样，是因为就像您说的那样，您在处理钱，第二种是我们交易出错或钱从某人的帐户中消失，而没有向他们做出解释，这显然对我们的用户真的很不利，我们绝对不会想要那个。

Louis: Yeah. And in the case of things going wrong, you’re also in addition to relying on your payment processors, which are pretty nice and stable, you’re also kind of relying on Twitter; how have you found that in the case of duplicate tweets going through, has that caused any issues or things like that?

路易斯：是的。 而且在出现问题的情况下，除了依赖不错且稳定的付款处理器之外，您还依赖Twitter。 您如何发现重复的推文是否引起任何问题或类似的事情？

Andy: It did early on, one of our developers made an assumption that a tweet would always be, a) delivered in order, and b) never duplicated, and we’ve found that both of those things are not true. Twitter actually says in their API documentation that tweets aren’t delivered in the order that they’re sent, they’re delivered in the order that Twitter servers process them, so you have to be careful to write your code not to assume that they’re in any sequential order. Most of the time there’s enough of a gap between any of the tweets that we’re processing that that’s not a problem, but there are a couple of edge cases where things can actually get kind of hairy. Thankfully we’ve sorted out most of those but there were some late nights.

安迪(Andy)：确实如此，我们的一位开发人员就假设一条推文将一直存在，a)按顺序交付，b)从未重复，而且我们发现这两者都不是真的。 Twitter实际上在其API文档中说过，tweet的发送顺序不是按发送顺序发送的，tweet的发送顺序是Twitter服务器对其进行处理的，因此您必须谨慎编写代码，以免假定它们以任何顺序排列。 在大多数情况下，我们正在处理的任何一条推文之间都存在足够的差距，这并不是问题，但是在一些极端情况下，事情实际上可能会变得有些毛茸茸。 值得庆幸的是，我们已对其中的大部分进行了整理，但有一些深夜。

Louis: Yeah, I can imagine. What was the idea behind going with Twitter from the get-go rather than maybe building your own interface or allowing people to just use a mobile app, for example, to transfer money; why piggyback on Twitter?

路易斯：是的，我可以想象。 从一开始就使用Twitter而不是构建自己的界面或允许人们仅使用移动应用程序(例如转账)，背后的想法是什么？ 为什么piggy带在Twitter上？

Andy: Yeah, the advantage of Twitter is that you instantly get visibility to entire networks of people, it has a really well documented API that’s quite simple to use comparatively, it’s a restful API, it uses nothing but JSON, I think you can get XML out of it as well but I’d rather not.

Andy：是的，Twitter的优势在于您可以立即看到整个人脉网络，它有一个文档齐全的API，相对而言使用起来非常简单，它是一个宁静的API，除了JSON外什么也不用，我想您可以也可以使用XML，但我不愿意。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Andy: I’d really rather not. And, you know, just getting that visibility early on was really important to us; if we’d built our own interface then potentially we would have been using email, and one of the assumptions that we went into the business with was that we wanted transactions to be public, we wanted people to be loud about their money, we wanted to challenge that conception that money and payments have to be a private thing, and I think so far that’s worked out pretty well.

安迪：我真的不愿意。 而且，您知道，尽早获得知名度对我们而言确实很重要； 如果我们建立了自己的界面，那么我们可能会一直使用电子邮件，而我们从事这项业务的假设之一就是我们希望交易公开，我们希望人们大声疾呼他们的钱，我们想要挑战那种认为钱和付款必须是私事的观念，我认为到目前为止，效果很好。

Louis: Right. So you launched initially with Twitter and have since added email transactions.

路易斯：对。 因此，您最初是通过Twitter启动的，此后又添加了电子邮件交易。

Andy: That’s right. So as of I think about three or four weeks ago we pushed another update to our production environment, and that now lets you pay people via email which is a little bit more private and a little bit more quiet, but I think so far the vast majority of people are still using Twitter to send money around.Louis: Right. We talked a bit earlier about the sort of obvious use cases of, for example, dividing up a restaurant bill or paying for a coffee run, you know, if you borrow five bucks from someone and you want to pay them back, what are other use cases that you’ve seen that sort of defied your expectations of what people were going to use the system for?

安迪：是的。 因此，大约三，四周前，我们就对生产环境进行了另一次更新，现在您可以通过电子邮件向人们付款，这有点私密，安静了一些，但到目前为止，我认为大多数人仍在使用Twitter进行汇款。 路易斯：对。 前面我们谈到了一些显而易见的用例，例如，分摊餐厅账单或支付咖啡费用，如果您向某人借了五美元，又想还钱，那还有什么用呢？您已经看到的用例违反了您对人们将使用该系统的目的的期望？

Andy: Melbourne Cup Day was a really interesting one for us.

安迪：墨尔本杯日对我们来说真的很有趣。

Louis: Okay, this one we’re going to have to stop a little bit and maybe give some explanation to non-Australian listeners.

路易斯：好的，我们将不得不停下来一点，也许可以向非澳大利亚听众做出一些解释。

Andy: About Melbourne Cup Day, of course.

安迪：当然是关于墨尔本杯日。

Louis: Yes, arriving in Australia that was a bit of a culture shock for me. So it’s a national holiday around a horse race.

路易斯：是的，到达澳大利亚对我来说有点文化冲击。 因此，这是一个围绕赛马的国定假日。

Andy: Yes, that’s right.

安迪：是的，没错。

Louis: (Laughs) So everyone has the day off and they all gamble on horse races is pretty much the given.

路易斯：(笑)所以每个人都有休息日，他们几乎都在赛马上赌博。

Andy: Ah, not everyone.

安迪：啊，不是所有人。

Louis: Not everyone has the day off, right.

路易斯：不是每个人都有休息日，对。

Andy: Yeah, only some states in Australia still have that as a public holiday, but it’s very much culturally a bludge date, and that aphorism I’ll explain that one as well, it just means that people have a very lazy afternoon and end up watching the horse races and quite frequently drink copious amounts of alcohol, which is an Australian tradition.

安迪：是的，只有澳大利亚的一些州仍然将其作为公共假日，但这在文化上是一个愚蠢的约会，我也将向人们解释那句格言，它只意味着人们度过了一个非常懒散的下午和结束观看赛马，并且经常喝大量的酒精，这是澳大利亚的传统。

Louis: Alright, now that we’ve got the background so tell us about how Pygg fit into that.

路易斯：好，现在我们已经有了背景，所以请告诉我们关于皮格是如何适应这一情况的。

Andy: So we saw a lot of people making bets and challenging each other over Twitter, so there were a couple of groups that were doing — here in the office, for example, we were doing a competition to see who could be the best dressed, and the winner, I think the winner ended up winning some small amount of money, and another amount of money went to charity. So and other groups were getting involved in that as well and actually voting with a dollar.

安迪：所以我们看到很多人在Twitter上下注并互相挑战，所以有几个小组正在这样做-例如，在办公室里，我们正在做一场比赛，看谁可能是最衣冠楚楚的，以及获胜者，我认为获胜者最终赢得了少量钱，另一笔钱捐给了慈善机构。 因此，其他团体也参与其中，并实际上以一美元的价格投票。

Louis: Right.

路易斯：对。

Andy: We’ve seen a few people doing things like that where they’ll just throw someone a dollar and say, hey; I really appreciated that blog article you wrote, you know, here’s money for a coffee or money for a beer, so people were thanking each other.

安迪：我们已经看到一些人在做这样的事情，他们只会向某人扔一美元，然后说，嘿。 我真的很感激您写的博客文章，您知道，这里的钱是咖啡或啤酒的钱，所以人们互相感谢。

Louis: Right, sort of a tip economy for online helpfulness.

路易斯：对，这对于在线帮助很有帮助。

Andy: Yep, exactly. And we’re actually hoping to see more of that because I think that’s really cool.

安迪：是的。 我们实际上希望看到更多，因为我认为这真的很酷。

Louis: Right, have you seen anyone sort of plug this kind of thing into their website, sort of say if you like this article here’s a Twitter API integration with pay, whatever, a dollar or fifty cents?

路易斯：对，您有没有看到有人将这种东西插入他们的网站，比如说您是否喜欢这篇文章，这是一个Twitter API集成，包含薪水，无论是美元还是五十美分？

Andy: We actually make available. I’d have to dig up the URL, I haven’t got it in front of me at the moment, but our product manager, Michael, put together a Ruby-backed web application that generates an HTML snippet that you can just put onto your web page and it automatically sends a tweet when someone clicks it using Twitters intent for sharing content, so it pops up the nice little JavaScript thing with the message pre-filled @pygg pay, and the owner of the blog’s Twitter handle, $4.00 for this fantastic article.

安迪：我们实际上提供了。 我必须挖掘URL，但目前还没有得到它，但是我们的产品经理Michael组合了一个由Ruby支持的Web应用程序，该应用程序生成一个HTML片段，您可以将其放入您的网页，当有人使用Twitter共享内容的意图单击它时，它会自动发送一条推文，因此它弹出带有预填充@pygg pay消息的漂亮JavaScript小东西，并且该博客的Twitter句柄所有者为$ 4.00这篇很棒的文章。

Louis: Right.

路易斯：对。

Andy: We haven’t publicized that as well as we possibly could, but there are a few people out there who are using it.

安迪：我们并没有尽我们所能宣传，但是有一些人在使用它。

Louis: Awesome. Have you guys encountered other people in doing a similar kind of thing?

路易斯：太好了。 你们在做类似事情时遇到其他人了吗？

Andy: There are a number of companies both here in Australia and especially over in Silicon Valley who are starting to move in sort of Bank 2.0 in the social payments sphere. We’ve seen Square, who I don’t really know how to describe their business model, but they recently released an application that does location based payments, so you pull up the application on your mobile phone and you select the store that you’re in, and the store owner sort of gets a list of people that are currently checked in at their store and they can pick you out via your photo and charge you using Square’s API. So that’s a particularly cool implementation that we’ve seen. And, yeah, there’s quite a few people doing similar things; I haven’t seen anyone else using Twitter in exactly the same way that we’re using it, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see some competition spring up very quickly.

安迪：澳大利亚有很多公司，特别是硅谷有多家公司，它们开始在社会支付领域采用Bank 2.0。 我们见过Square，我真的不知道该如何描述他们的商业模式，但是他们最近发布了一个应用程序，该应用程序执行基于位置的付款，因此您可以在手机上拉出该应用程序，然后选择要重新进入商店，商店老板就会得到一份当前正在其商店中签到的人员的列表，他们可以通过您的照片将您挑选出来，并使用Square的API向您收费。 因此，这是我们看到的特别酷的实现。 是的，有很多人在做类似的事情。 我还没有看到其他人使用Twitter的方式与我们使用Twitter的方式完全相同，但是看到竞争Swift兴起，也不足为奇。

Louis: Yeah. And you also mentioned that you do have eventual plans of moving beyond Australia.

路易斯：是的。 您还提到了您确实有计划超越澳大利亚。

Andy: Yeah. I’m not sure where we’ll move out to first, but there’s a bit more work to do, the application’s not quite at the level where we’d want to expose it to hundreds of millions of users at a time, yet; we’ve got a long way to go, we’ll get there don’t worry.

安迪：是的。 我不确定首先要去哪里，但是还有很多工作要做，该应用程序还没有达到我们想要一次向数亿用户公开的水平。 我们还有很长的路要走，我们会到达那里的，不用担心。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Andy: And once that’s sorted and a business decision has been made then we’ll definitely be looking at international markets, but that’s sort of above my pay grade, that’s something that the founders need to decide on.

安迪(Andy)：完成排序并做出业务决策后，我们肯定会关注国际市场，但是那比我的薪水等级还高，这是创始人需要决定的事情。

Louis: Right. So you mentioned one of the things was you withdraw the money into a bank account via the bank account number, was there any discussion around potentially using PayPal for that, allowing people to get money out into their PayPal account?

路易斯：对。 因此，您提到的一件事是您通过银行帐号将钱提取到银行帐户中，是否有可能使用PayPal进行讨论，以允许人们将钱存入他们的PayPal帐户？

Andy: There was early on, from memory it had to do with PayPal’s API and the way that we would have to integrate with them, they had some very stringent business rules around making payments back into PayPal. At the moment our PayPal implementation’s just a PayPal buy it now button.

Andy：从很早就开始，从内存上讲，它与PayPal的API有关，而我们必须与它们进行集成的方式，他们有一些非常严格的业务规则，要求将款项退回PayPal。 目前，我们的PayPal实施只是一个PayPal，现在购买按钮。

Louis: Yeah, right.

路易斯：是的，对。

Andy: It’s very straightforward, easy to implement, very quick to churn out and get up and running, actually integrating with their API in a more structured way, early on at least, was more than we wanted to do. So that’s something we’re looking at over the next probably four months we’re going to be expanding the options for getting your money in and out of the service.

Andy：它非常简单，易于实现，非常快速地投入使用并开始运行，实际上至少在早期就以一种更加结构化的方式与他们的API集成远远超出了我们想要做的。 因此，在接下来的四个月中，我们正在研究这一问题，我们将扩大选择，以便使您的资金进入和退出服务。

Louis: Right, cool. So you mentioned sort of earlier on that the company you work for is called Pollenizer, and Pygg is one of a few projects that have on the go at any given time.

路易斯：对，很酷。 因此，您在前面提到了您所服务的公司称为Pollenizer，而Pygg是在任何给定时间进行中的几个项目之一。

Andy: Correct. Pollenizer is at the moment I guess startup incubator is the best way of describing it, simply it’s a little bit more complicated than that, but that’s sort of the essence of it; we build minimum viable businesses.

安迪：对 。 目前，我认为Pollenizer是启动孵化器的最佳描述方式，只是比这稍微复杂一点，但这是它的本质。 我们建立起最低限度的业务。

Louis: Right. Is Pygg one of the first projects or is this, you know, or have there been a few in the past from coming out of Pollenizer?

路易斯：对。 Pygg是第一个项目之一，还是您知道的，或者过去是否有一些来自Pollenizer的项目？

Andy: Pollenizer’s been around; we’re coming up on our fourth birthday on the 29th of February. Pollenizer has built a number of different startups, obviously not all of them successful, it’s sort of guaranteed in this industry that you try a bunch of things and you run with the things that work and try to fail as quickly as possible with the things that don’t, but some past notable names include Dealized and Spreets; Spreets was sold to Yahoo for a sum of money that I’m probably not allowed to mention.

安迪：传粉者已经存在了； 我们将在2月29日迎来我们的第四个生日。 Pollenizer建立了许多不同的初创公司，显然不是所有的初创公司都成功。在这个行业中，可以保证您尝试一堆事情，并在可行的情况下运行，并尝试在失败的情况下尽快失败。不会，但是过去的一些著名名称包括Dealized和Spreets； Spreets被卖给了Yahoo，但我可能不敢提。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Andy: You know; it was a fairly significant exit and a big victory for Pollenizer.

安迪：你知道的。 对于Pollenizer来说，这是一个相当重大的退出，也是一个重大胜利。

Louis: Right.

路易斯：对。

Andy: We have been working for a while, fell into the trap early on of doing a lot of client based business, and we’ve recently started developing what we’ve come to call the Pollenizer way which is more focused on sort of the startup industry and building startups in the right way as opposed to as a client contractor, and that’s working out much more successfully for us; Pygg is one of the first businesses to be developed under that model.

安迪：我们已经工作了一段时间，很早就陷入了做很多基于客户的业务的陷阱，并且我们最近开始开发我们称之为“花粉器”方式的方法，该方法更侧重于创业行业和以正确的方式建设创业公司，而不是作为客户承包商，这对我们来说成功得多。 Pygg是根据该模式开发的首批业务之一。

Louis: Right. And is this something where they’ll be a team hired to work on a specific new startup sort of under the umbrella of Pollenizer but that team stays with that project or is there a core Pollenizer team that works on a number of different projects and then if those things spinout into successful businesses they have to take on additional staff; how does the organization of staff work in those cases?

路易斯：对。 这就是他们将被聘为在Pollenizer的保护下从事特定的新启动公司工作的团队，但该团队留在该项目中还是有一个核心的Pollenizer团队在多个不同的项目中工作，然后如果这些事情分解成成功的企业，则必须雇用更多的员工； 在这种情况下，工作人员的组织如何工作？

Andy: That’s an interesting question especially as someone working internally at Pollenizer. At the moment the model is that there are three or four what we’re calling Pods within Pollenizer which are self-contained teams consisting of a customer development manager, a product manager, an engineer and usually either a front-end or a graphic designer, that one’s still a little bit nebulous, and under the engineer there will be anywhere between one and four junior developers working on a project as well, they may be here in the office or they may be located overseas or it depends on the requirements for a given project. Each of those Pods will work on two businesses at a time, typically two of those four developers or one of those two developers will be working on each of the businesses, and the other four members of the Pod sort of spend half their time between each of the projects. That model is probably going to be refined soon, you know, we’re constantly learning from the things that we’re doing and changing the way the business is structured to make things more efficient and more effective, but I have to get back to you on that one.

安迪：这是一个有趣的问题，尤其是当有人在Pollenizer内部工作时。 目前的模型是，在Pollenizer中我们称之为三到四个Pod，它们是独立的团队，由客户开发经理，产品经理，工程师以及通常是前端或图形设计师组成，但仍然有点模糊，在工程师的领导下，也会有1-4个初级开发人员在某个项目上工作，他们可能在办公室，也可能在海外，或者取决于要求给定的项目。 每个Pod一次将同时处理两个业务，通常是这四个开发人员中的两个或两个开发人员中的一个将处理每个业务，而Pod的其他四个成员则在每个时间之间花费了一半的时间项目。 您可能知道，该模型可能很快就会完善，我们正在不断地从正在做的事情中学习，并正在改变业务的结构方式以使事情变得更加高效和高效，但是我必须回到你在那一个。

Louis: (Laughs) Right.

路易斯：(笑)对。

Andy: And once a business graduates to the point where it needs to leave the Pollenizer fold and go and be its own thing, staff traditionally have had a choice of whether to go out and work on the business or whether to stay within Pollenizer; I don’t know if that’s going to be the case going forward, but I think it’s valuable to Pollenizer to hold onto staff who’ve worked on a variety of projects as long as possible, and it’s valuable to the businesses that they build to hold onto the staff that built them, so there’s an interesting tension there.

安迪(Andy)：一旦企业毕业到需要离开Pollenizer折叠并自己做的事情，传统上，员工就可以选择是外出创业还是留在Pollenizer中； 我不知道这种情况是否会持续下去，但是我认为对于Pollenizer而言，尽可能长期聘用从事各种项目工作的员工很有价值，这对于他们建立的业务也很有价值抓住建立他们的员工，所以那里存在一种有趣的紧张关系。

Louis: Yeah. You’ve also written a couple of articles for the various SitePoint sites over the past few months, a lot of it’s been focused around mobile app development, so do you sort of split your time between working on backend server side code and, say, IOS and Android dev?

路易斯：是的。 在过去的几个月中，您还为各个SitePoint网站撰写了几篇文章，其中很多内容都集中在移动应用程序开发上，因此您是否将时间花在处理后端服务器端代码上，比如iOS和Android开发人员？

Andy: I am a serial over-committer and workaholic, and my personal time quite often gets used to work on whatever I’m feeling particularly passionate about at any given moment which has often been iPhone development, I’m working in a lot of stuff at home in my own time on that platform. Haven’t done a lot of Android stuff yet, though, I’m starting to get very tempted by some of the new handsets that are coming out, so if anyone wants to donate me an Android handset feel free, Google, ahem.

安迪(Andy)：我是一个连续的过度工作和工作狂，我的个人时间经常习惯于在任何给定的时刻(特别是iPhone开发)对我特别热衷的事情工作，我从事很多工作。在我自己的时间在那个平台上在家工作。 不过，还没有做很多Android事情，我开始对即将推出的一些新手机很感兴趣，因此，如果有人愿意免费给我捐赠Android手机，Google，天哪。

Louis: (Laughs) I don’t know if we have any listeners at Google.

路易斯：(笑)我不知道我们在Google是否有听众。

Andy: Uh, you’d be surprised, maybe.

安迪：嗯，也许你会感到惊讶。

Louis: Yeah, it’s a big company. Alright, well look, it’s been great talking to you, and thanks for making a bit of time to come on and talk about the stuff you guys are working on, I thought it was just a lot of cool stuff and I was sort of intrigued by the platform and it seems to have come together very quickly. I didn’t have any clear idea of how long it had taken to put together, I just remember sort of vaguely hearing about it and then the next time I went to the website it looked to be fully functional and everything was there, I’m like, oh, what happened there.

路易斯：是的，这是一家大公司。 好吧，好吧，很高兴与您交谈，感谢您抽出宝贵的时间来谈论你们正在研究的东西，我认为那是很多很酷的东西，我对此很感兴趣通过平台，似乎已经非常Swift地融合在一起。 我并不清楚要花多长时间来组装，我只是记得有点隐约地听说过，然后当我下次访问该网站时，它似乎可以正常运行，并且一切就绪，我喜欢，哦，那里发生了什么。

Andy: I kind of feel the same way some mornings.

安迪：有些早晨，我也有同样的感觉。

Louis: (Laughs) Yeah, I imagine. Thanks again for coming on the show, it’s been great, wishing you all the best of luck with Pygg and I hope to see more of your work on the sites in the future. If the listeners wanted to find you online or check out Pygg or Pollenizer what are the Twitters and the web addresses that they should be looking up?

路易斯：(笑)是的，我想。 再次感谢您参加演出，真是太好了，祝您与Pygg一切顺利，我希望以后您在网站上能看到更多的工作。 如果听众想在网上找到您，或查看Pygg或Pollenizer，他们应该查找哪些Twitter和网址？

Andy: So for Pygg you’ll want to look at Pygg, p-y-g-g.co, that’s pygg.co; the Twitter handle for that one is @pyggau, so p-y-g-g-a-u, for Pygg Australia, and my Twitter handle is @arcwhite, a-r-c-w-h-i-t-e.

Andy：所以对于Pygg，您需要查看pygg.pygg.co，即pygg.co ； 该Twitter的句柄是@pyggau ，也就是pyggau，对于Pygg Australia来说，我的Twitter句柄是@arcwhite ，arcwhite。

Louis: Yep, I think that’s all good.

路易斯：是的 ，我认为这很好。

Andy: Thank you very much for having me on, Louis.

安迪：非常感谢你让我加入，路易斯。

Louis: Thank you, it’s my pleasure.

路易斯：谢谢，这是我的荣幸。

Andy: Take care.

安迪：保重。

Louis: Take care. And thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the SitePoint Podcast. I’d love to hear what you thought about today’s show, so if you have any thoughts or suggestions just go to Sitepoint.com/podcast and you can leave a comment on today’s episode, you can also get any of our previous episodes to download or subscribe to get the show automatically. You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, that’s sitepoint d-o-t-c-o-m, and you can follow me on Twitter @rssaddict. The show this week was produced by Karn Broad and I’m Louis Simoneau, thanks for listening and bye for now.

路易斯：保重。 感谢您收听本周的SitePoint播客。 我很想听听您对今天节目的看法，因此，如果您有任何想法或建议，请访问Sitepoint.com/podcast ，您可以对今天的节目发表评论，也可以下载我们以前的任何节目或订阅自动显示节目。 您可以在Twitter @sitepointdotcom (即站点点dotcom)上关注SitePoint ，也可以在Twitter @rssaddict上关注我。 本周的节目是由Karn Broad和我是Louis Simoneau制作的，感谢您的收听和再见。

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Mike Mella的主题音乐。

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

谢谢收听！ 欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-141-pygg-with-andy-white/