Driving profitable growth with innovative products

Thank you all for coming today. My name is Jeffrey Hammond. I'm part of the ISV segment here at AWS, which means that I serve companies that live and die by the success of their software. I've been here for about two years, but I've been in the software development space for over 30. Started out as a developer, built software development tools, did product management, product marketing roles for about 10 years and then spent the last 15 years as an industry analyst at Forrester.

The reason I came to AWS was that I have a cool job. I get to spend most of my time talking with product decision makers, CPOs, VPs of product and CTOs in our customers and understanding what they are trying to do, how they're trying to grow their business and figuring out how we can help do that at AWS. In a given year, I will have probably hundreds of those conversations. Some of the trends that we see emerging from those conversations are things that I'd like to talk to you about today.

In my opinion, the ISV segment is a hard, demanding segment. I think it's the hardest of all the segments that we have at AWS. The reason for that is very simple - you live and die on your ability to create software that creates value for your customers that can drive profit. You have customers that you have to work backward from and support. That places demands on us as we support you. But that difficulty also creates the excitement.

Over the last two years, I feel like I've almost had three separate discussions based on what's happened in the market. When I first started having conversations with CPOs in early 2020, the Rule of 40 was all about growth - growth matters. What's our growth margin, gross margin? How are we going to move forward?

Then when we got to Q3 and Q4 of 2022, things started to change pretty rapidly. I remember my first conversations with one of our CPO customers in the security space the first week in January - what's your top priority? "Got to cut 15% of my COGS." Doesn't sound much like a CPO conversation, right? We're all about creating new products, adding new features. Yet we were having that conversation. For the first half of 2023 that became a pretty dominant conversation - how do we reduce our spending so that we can focus on profit and free cash flow?

Now, in April, the conversation started to change again. It seemed like every conversation was about what we're doing with AI and ML in terms of new product development. It's good to have conversations about green shoots. But there are some other interesting shifts that I've seen in the conversations.

ISV, although it's probably one of the most difficult segments, it's also the segment that is the most optimized already of any of our customer base. As the optimization work has been done, it starts to set us up for conversations about innovation again and about growth. So it feels like we're starting to come out of some of the tough times that we went through.

Unfortunately, we lost a lot of good talent in the process. Q3 layoffs through 2023 in the tech industry were around 245,000. So now that we have the ability to innovate again, who's going to do that work? How are we going to move forward?

How do you think about creating innovative products that drive profit given this kind of whipsaw change? When I work with our ISV customers, I start with this simple formula - Newton's Second Law. There's a software equivalent that I'd ask you to think about as you look at your portfolio and think about growth.

First, think of F as the total market force you can generate around your product, where that force provides value. How do you generate that force? Through a combination of mass (the resources you have - developers, product owners, documentation folks, go-to-market folks) and how fast you can apply those efforts - the acceleration.

There's a challenge with that mass part. A lot of organizations apply a lot of mass to non-differentiating technology and features. Does it really differentiate anymore to maintain a database on EC2 or bare metal? Should we focus on managed database services? If you're a traditional ISV selling on-prem software, how are you moving those investments forward?

When you think about your strategy, ask that question first - what is the mass we have and how much is spent on differentiation and innovation? And are we making the right acceleration investments - devops, automation - to rapidly apply that? If you do that, the force you put toward differentiation and innovation drives profit increases. It's a simple way to think about your strategy.

Let's dive into some specifics. When I talk to CPOs or CTOs, we focus on four areas of strategy. The first is innovation - what are the priorities to create differentiation? Some common tactics driving strategy:

• Thinking big with new products - we still see net new development
• Improving customer experience - differentiating through data
• Investing in flexible process automation
• Putting AI/ML to work

Let's look at some examples. Thinking big to increase differentiation - it's fun to talk about ideas and what the cloud enables. Some recent conversations:

• A security ISV going upmarket needs to operate across regions. Customers want a global SOC. We used capabilities to meet their needs.

• The average traffic light is reprogrammed every 5 years. What if you used AI video analysis and sensors to reprogram dynamically? A customer acquired companies and partnered with government to make this happen.

New product development is still important. Innovative customer experience may not seem that innovative, but think about improving daily usage. GitHub built value on open source code by making it easy to use. $7 billion of differentiation through experience.

Making it easy to onboard and get to value quickly matters just as much. Investing in admin and business user experiences provides insight and is a valid strategy.

Differentiating with AI/ML - lots of capabilities already exist beyond bleeding edge AI. A HR ISV uses nudges during hiring for good outcomes.

"To think about whether the decisions that they are making are based on fact, if they incorporate principles of diversity, equity inclusion, whether they're doing the right thing, we're seeing a lot of customers working with entity extraction using services like Comprehend so that they can essentially create taxonomies of metadata for domain specific applications in the industries that they work in. Financial services is a great example of that.

Now, with respect to gen AI, when we have these conversations and as I said, we're having them almost daily since April, I ask a number of different things if you're thinking about how to move your gen AI strategy forward.

First question, where do you process content and data? Because that's where you're going to want to look to apply gen AI technologies. What useful patterns or entities or events can you detect and extract?

I was working with a particular customer that builds hardware for video cameras. And one of the things they saw as they were trying to improve their differentiation and their innovation and transform from a hardware-based business model to an over the top software services based business model was that their ability to detect patterns created the ability to create new vertical entry points into additional markets.

So we all know patterns like the Amazon driver just delivered a package or that there's somebody that's in my driveway and I need to put into a security, I need to put a security alert in place. But what happens if you connect the pattern of audio around a fall with the video of detecting a fall? Now you've got fall detection, which is a potential healthcare based use case for elderly workers. And that creates potentially something that is a lot more valuable. Given the particular cohort of customers that they're interested in, you can apply that same sort of thinking - what are the patterns that derive value? And then how do we put AI services into being able to detect and act on those patterns?

Also, I think one of the things that a lot of the folks that are looking at gen AI strategies miss is the data part of that. If your data is not already cleaned, if it has not been optimized, if it is not easily available and it can be quickly accessed, you're going to have a real problem executing that gen AI strategy. So as much as anything, you've got a data strategy that you've got to get in place before you think about applying the technology.

Now, I'll say one more thing about this and some of the most exciting ways that I'm seeing our customers apply AI is going back to that customer experience point. If you think about the way that our customers who have interacted with systems over the past 40 years, we have always demanded that our users conform to the context of the system - have you filled out the form with the right required fields? Have you tabbed to the right field back when we had DOS based applications? And what a generative approach allows us to do is potentially have the system conform to the context of the user. Change the way that that user experience happens. To me that feels like potentially the biggest change from going from DOS based applications to Windows applications or from Windows applications to iOS apps. That shift in customer experience creates disruption, disruption creates opportunity. If you can seize that opportunity, then you can generate value through your ability to innovate. If you've invested in the A part of that F=MA, application and we'll talk a little bit more about that in a few minutes.

Ok, so how do we help our customers when they're executing these particular tactics or any other innovation tactic to create new products? There's a number of things that we do. I'm gonna start with one example, something called our Venture Innovation program. It's part of a group of offerings here at Amazon called our Digital Innovation family. Venture Innovation sticks startups that have built innovative technologies together with enterprises that potentially need those technologies.

In this example, Slice Insurance is a company that has built a cloud based ability to create custom insurance quotes very, very quickly and white label them. And by connecting them to an enterprise insurance company that was looking to do exactly that we created a win-win for both customers and they saw a lot of value in that. So if you've got a particular solution in an industry or that serves a particular niche, the Venture Innovation program is one way for us to help you connect to the customers that we have that are already on AWS.

But it's not the only way that we help customers. Another example is a Working Backwards engagement. The security vendor that I mentioned earlier in my speech that 30,000 ft vision of a global SOC. Well, how do you work backwards from that? Let's write a PRF for that. Let's ask the five whys - we take the process that we use inside AWS. It's part of a multiweek engagement where we work backward from that. And in some cases go all the way into robust prototyping. So it's a way to start to look at the A part of that F=MA and say, can we use the same techniques that we use to deliver new capabilities and services as fast as possible and apply it to your particular problem?

It's funny because we don't necessarily talk about having a methodology, a development methodology at AWS, but we really do and Working Backwards captures that about as well as anything. So if you're not aware of it, it's a great program to have. If you're trying to look at, if you're thinking big connected to that is something called a PACE lab.

PACE stands for Prototyping and Cloud Engineering. In a PACE lab, we attach a team that has design resources as well as development and implementation of resources to that idea. And we take a number of weeks and build that robust prototype with our capabilities. Sometimes you can work with partners to do that as well, but it's all a way to accelerate the innovation of a new product idea that you might have.

There are also simpler ways in which we help drive that innovation. If you've never run an immersion day or a workshop around a particular technology, I would encourage you to do that. I think of one of our customers that I worked with recently where the SA that was involved with the customer did a two day workshop around Bedrock and got their first POC up to basically able to do Q&A around their product documentation. So first proof point quickly delivered was able to give the business stakeholders something to see, to understand how the technology could be applied. And that sort of thing happens all the time.

I'm seeing a lot of it going on right now in Australia. That team has put together a really great workshop to enable their customers. In addition to that, if you want to go bigger and you've got a bigger idea that happens to be AI related, take a look at the Generative AI Innovation Center and your account manager can help connect you to that. They're looking for big ideas to work with our IV customers together to deliver.

There's one more thing that we do in this space to help. It's a program that I help co-run called the Roadmap Acceleration program. It is a very lightweight, very quick session that we work with your product owners, your product decision makers to understand their priorities and then come back with a specific set of recommendations for next steps that we can take around those important priorities. And that's something that if you're interested, you can also talk to your account rep about.

Ok, let's move on. Innovation is great, but selling more of what you currently have is also really important if you're a product owner for top line growth. And in that space, some of the most common tactics that I am seeing organizations look to execute - geographic expansion. I'd say maybe 60-65% of our conversations include that as a component.

We see customers in Europe that want to do a better job coming to the US. We see customers in the US that are really interested in going to Australia and New Zealand. We see customers from around the world that are interested in moving into China. And it turns out that doing that is really kind of hard. There are different rules and regulations for every country that you have to go into. You've got to think of the staff that you put in place, the operating model that you create and it's not easy and there are things that we can do to help with that.

In addition to geographic expansion, you've got expansion of the portfolio itself. It's great to build your own innovation and to ship it. But if you can buy it and get a good price for it, that's also a pretty good strategy as well.

It's interesting - in Q1 of this year, we saw that overall M&A activity by value was down by about 20%. But interestingly enough, the number of deals was not. The number of deals was actually higher than Q4 and Q3 of last year and it was higher than the overall average over the last 10 years. So what that tells me is M&A is still happening. It's not as much as the big splash deals. It's the technology acquisitions that allow organizations to build complementary product strategies and build themselves from a single product into a portfolio as part of that.

One of the most common tactics that we see is the move to a platform play. To give you some examples over the last year - the Tenable platform, the COOS platform, the CyberArc platform. This is a tactic that goes back as long as I've been in the industry. 25 years ago, when we bought up development tools and created the Rational Suite, we were essentially executing a platform play. It's one of the best ways to go up in the enterprise to be able to sell to a higher level, to get a higher ACV and to make it profitable for that very expensive sales force to be able to drive net revenue instead of just focusing on growth.

Now that creates its own challenges. Because as you know, when you start buying companies, you've now got multiple cultures that you've got to amalgamate, you've got multiple technologies that you have to amalgamate. So think about going back to that using customer experience as a differentiator - if you're buying adjacent products, what impact does that have on your ability to be successful with a superior customer experience? Does that mean that you have to rewrite all the UIs because you're going to do UI based integration? Does that mean that you have to do a data migration? Because you want to make sure that all the data can be accessed so that you can create reporting capabilities or extract insights across those various pieces of data for a stakeholder, for an executive that you're now selling a more expensive product to. Those sorts of decisions are things that we can also help with as well.

Adjacent market entries - it's very common that we are seeing organizations that want to sell higher in an organization or potentially want to sell into SMB. And so in that case, well, we have enterprise segments, we have SMB segments and we have teams that sell in that area and there are co-marketing opportunities that we can help with as well.

Transitioning to product led growth is a hot topic, but that gets back to customer experience because if you don't have a product that is easy to sell, it's really hard to implement product led growth. If you don't have a data strategy that's in place that allows you to get good telemetry from the products that you've created, it's really, really hard to implement product led growth as well.

And then the final thing that we're seeing a lot of organizations focusing on right now is just making sure that they close out the leaky bucket. One of the best ways to improve your profit is to drive up your net dollar retention. And sometimes that means focusing on features that your existing customers want as opposed to new features that would have driven growth under the rule of 40 model."

Let's talk about how we can help with some of these.

First example here is that geographic expansion example. If you're from a PJ or you're in design, you might know Canva. Canva comes out of Australia and they were very interested in being able to go into China. So there's a specific program we have called Go To China, which helps set up a local entity, guides the strategy, and then helps guide the execution of that strategy to put it into operation. As a result, we were able to help them take their existing products and very quickly move them into a new market.

In addition to Go To China, there's a new program we introduced in pilot this year that we're expanding next year called Passport. Passport is specifically designed to help with geographic expansion for ISVs and it is not limited to a single region. So if you happen to be in Europe and interested in expanding to the US, Passport can help with that. If you're in the US thinking of expanding to Europe or Asia, Passport can help with that. One of my teammates, Lexi Nuer, runs that program. You can talk to her if geographic expansion is on your agenda.

In addition to geographic expansion, there's also channel expansion. In this area, we see a lot of our customers investing successfully in things like Marketplace as a way to drive accelerated co-sell and shorten the cycle for product acquisition. Lacework is a good example here. Of course you know them, their data driven security platform. When they implemented their Marketplace support in 2020 what they saw was a 50-56% increase in deal size, a reduction in the time of the sale cycle, and they increased referrals by over 54%. So a pretty good story there. There's work to optimize for the channel. But in addition to Marketplace, there are other programs like ISV Accelerate that tap co-sell with the AWS sales force. We see that can really turbocharge revenue expansion inside the AWS customer base. If it's something you want to pursue, talk to us.

In addition to Marketplace expansion, you've got cross sell, upsell, and M&A. I mentioned the importance of M&A. There's a program we have called the M&A Hub - search for that, it's a public site. There are services we offer before and after an acquisition to help assess integration challenges and accelerate the process. A lot of folks don't know we have these programs, but they can ensure you get value from acquisitions.

Okay, let's move on to the "A" part of that F=MA equation - how organizations deliver their "mass." You'd think we'd have this figured out by now, but it's rare I meet a company happy with their software delivery. There are discussions we have around this. One in particular is improving your ability to run experiments quickly - multivariate testing in the interface and service, getting customer feedback on designs, and incorporating that quickly. If you have less innovation capacity from layoffs, you've got to make sure remaining capacity creates value quickly. Experimentation determines quickly if something will be a star or a dog, and you can get rid of it.

Obviously automation is important - DevOps, automation platforms, shifting security assessments earlier so you don't wait weeks at the end. For larger ISVs, building resilience into infrastructure becomes important, especially around multi-AZ or multi-region, even though we have opinions. Sometimes customers demand things with serious architecture consequences.

I want to focus on organization, because that's key for speed. Conway's Law shows how organization prevents acceleration and new products. There are 17 ways to launch a container at AWS because of our hierarchical service teams - it reflects Conway's Law.

What we see mature ISVs do to support a portfolio of products is make platform teams. This is dangerous because they lack profit targets. But the expertise to operate at scale across regions almost demands centralized skills for all teams.

Most ISVs needing portfolio support are at one of three stages:

1. Introducing and releasing products more effectively - centralized data, DevOps pipelines, security standards, customer experience innovation.

2. Automation to reduce operational costs via IaC. Pulling innovations from product teams into the platform. Self-service so teams aren't constrained. Second order analytics on product performance for product-led growth.

3. At large scale with thousands of customers, resilience engineering to harden the platform and products.

At each stage, different things matter:

• Leadership commitment to a platform
• Cloud skills and fluency
• Reflecting product needs in the platform
• Empowering teams with self-service
• Platform team adopts a product mindset, with metrics

An example is QSR Software, which used our Working Backwards process for a new product, changing their culture. With 2 developers they redefined their product in 3 months, onboarded 100 locations in 1 week, over 1000 in 6 months. They decreased configuration time to 3 minutes, automated their CI/CD pipeline, and increased customer satisfaction and profit.

Lastly, investments for operational excellence:

• Cost optimization like Savings Plans doesn't require technologists.

• Technology optimization ranges from simple (Graviton) to substantial (re-architecting).

Like making sure that you can implement auto scaling and moving from EC2 instances to containers and then implementing auto scaling on top of that. That said, I think of a conversation I had in the summer with a Canadian customer of ours that implemented EKS and auto scaling on top of that. And the CPO's comment to me was "We've saved so much that we're now worried that we're not going to hit our EDP commit." Talk about a high quality problem there!

So now what happens is we can start thinking about and having those product innovation discussions. So even though it's challenging, it's worth doing that effort and we are here to help you.

I had a conversation earlier today where the CEO that I was talking to came in and apologized because of a migration that they were doing to DynamoDB that was going to save them a significant amount of money, a significant amount of money. And the comment was "That's great, so now let's talk about what we're going to do with that, how we're going to put it into product innovation." And that's why that F=MA formula is so important, because if you can think about what those opportunities are to change the relative proportion of your M, you can start to have those innovation conversations that do drive profit again.

So in addition to that technology and cost optimization, we constantly have discussions about where can we use managed services better to be able to help shift that proportion of M.

Two other things that come up, as I mentioned, there's a lot of traditional ISVs out there and migration of their existing products to SaaS products dominates those conversations. And then lately, even with our SaaS native cloud native ISVs, we're having some very interesting conversations about hybrid SaaS or SaaS anywhere type architectures, which is an interesting one because it's another example of where customers are dictating what you have to do. And that's creating an impact on what we need to do to support those that have to live in an environment where there's data plane control plane separation.

So how to think about optimization within the overall product strategy effort? I think it's important to ask a number of questions. So first of all, focus on that innovation piece first and constantly ask yourself, how are we differentiating, how are we driving innovation because that is the key to profitable growth.

Second, what are the cloud services that we can leverage? If you like Simon Wardley, do Wardley mapping to understand where there are the table stakes that are changing, where you cannot do database migration anymore, where you cannot try to build your own large language models, where you can not try to reinvent an evening system so that you can focus on the value that your customers get.

And grok from a portfolio perspective how are you gonna take from your products that are cash cows to fund your question marks? And then from a technical debt perspective, how are you going to balance retirement of technical debt with investments in that Ao part of the F=MA, the application, to increase the speed with which you're delivering?

A couple of examples here of how we've been working with customers to do that. One, which is very simple and very tactical - DriveWealth is a global fintech investment company. They do fractional equity trading and they work with more than 100 partners around the world. They did nothing more than replace one of their existing databases that they supported with Aurora. And they saw some pretty significant improvements from that - improved write throughput and dramatically decreased cost. So those sorts of tactical opportunities are all over the place.

Some of the things that I see in addition to this .NET modernization, as I mentioned, moving to Graviton, implementing effective auto scaling to improve utilization - it kind of shocks me to see how many of those opportunities are still out there.

Now, I mentioned SaaS and I mentioned this idea of SaaS anywhere - there was a really great session yesterday. Unfortunately I can't tell you to go to it now, but when you get the YouTube videos up there, if this is something that you think might be important, SaaS 308 is worth watching. We see customers investing in single control planes with multiple abilities to deploy those data planes either in a multi-tenant or a single tenant configuration and flexibility is the watchword.

In some cases, Mendix is a good example, they use that ability to deploy single tenancy as a premium feature for customers that think that that's important. And in other cases we find that our customers struggle with how to deal with potentially having multiple apologies here, but we can help with that. If you are not familiar with the SaaS Factory organization, it's worth getting to know them, not just because of the best practices that they write about or the reference architectures that they have like SaaS Boost, but we have seen them help multiple of our customers, especially traditional ISVs, as they decide what their long term SaaS evolution strategy is going to be, go through SaaS migration and then move on to modernizing their solutions into fully multi-tenant SaaS solutions or remote hybrid SaaS solutions.

In addition to SaaS Factory, though, that's not all - there are other programs that we see organizations using to drive down the cost of doing this so that then we can get back to that increased profit part of the equation.

One example of that is the Migration Acceleration Program, specifically designed to help on-prem solutions, including ISV solutions that are deployed on-prem, migrate to the cloud and become SaaS-based solutions.

The Workload Migration Program is similar except that it addresses all those customers that you might have had on-prem that you now want to move to the cloud on top of your brand new SaaS application that you have migrated. We help make it easier and incentivize those customers to move to the product that you have built.

And there are things like Data Center Divest, which is if you've been a cloud native ISV and you've invested in your own data center and you've built all that up, but now you want to move into the public cloud, we can help make it easier to get rid of those assets in a way that helps fund that transformation.

There are also simpler things - we talked about technical and cost optimization. Things like the Always Be Optimizing program - the team has identified patterns that we commonly see that ISVs find that they can use as optimization opportunities. And so here in North America, your SEs can engage those folks to be able to identify those quick hits that let you free up the COGs to put back into the product growth that you really want to focus on.

Other things in that space - optimization and licensing assessments are really, really easy to do. We have some specific capabilities around AWS for Microsoft workloads when it comes to optimization. As you can imagine, Microsoft licensing optimization is a target rich environment for traditional ISVs that happen to build Windows applications as part of their product portfolio.

And then finally, there are technical field communities that can provide a lot of value here - the Resilience Technical Field Community, as well as the Next Generation Developer Experience Technical Field Community.

Ok, I've thrown a lot at you in the last 45 minutes. Knowing which of those 20 tactics are going to work for you is part of your job, especially if you're in a product management role. It's the combination of identifying which of those are the most appropriate to yield value that is going to help you turn tactics into strategy.

One way that I recommend you do that is by using a lightweight portfolio-based mechanism. If you've ever done agile planning poker, think of this as a similar sort of concept at a portfolio level. What we do is we define the opportunities that are out there across these different types of tactics - we've got these new products we want to invest in, or we know that we have this COGs reduction target, or we want to be able to expand our channels by working with these many partners. All of those opportunities compete with each other for your M, for your resources.

So you need to think about scoring those opportunities to figure out which ones are the ones that make the most sense to invest in. When you score them, think about the overall size of the opportunity to drive revenue because revenue is the basis of profit, and the level of strategic alignment with where you want to go in the longer term as a business. If it's going to generate a lot of revenue, if it's highly aligned with your strategy, it's a big bubble - and that's something that you should focus on.

Next, look at the potential costs of executing that opportunity - are there large migration costs, do you have to go hire a new development team, do you have to invest significantly in content production? And also look at the risks of those - what's the likelihood that we will be successful and actually generate the revenue that we think we're going to generate? Have we done this before? Have we seen other companies do this before?

At Amazon, one of the things that we like to talk about is - is a decision a one-way door or a two-way door decision? A great example of a one-way door decision - we want to introduce a new developer experience and we want to have an API that's part of that so developers can build things on top of our product. It's really hard to unmake that decision once you've launched an API - that's a one-way door. A one-way door is a riskier thing because it's harder to pivot from that once you've got that.

Your strategic opportunity in alignment, the potential costs of the opportunity, the potential risks of the opportunity - it's pretty easy to plot them. And on a chart like this, what you tend to see is bubbles that are in the bottom lower left-hand quadrant tend to be your low hanging fruit and you want to make sure you have a lot of those, especially if they are related to cost reduction, shifting that ratio of M.

Bubbles that are in the upper quadrant aren't necessarily bad - we like those even if they're potentially more costly or more risky, but we want them to be bigger if we're going to actually commit to doing those things.

And then the next question you can start to ask is, are there ways that we can shift the risk and the cost leftward and downward? Can we get some of these things into the low hanging fruit quadrant? Can we get these things into - yeah, maybe it's a risky thing, it's a flyer, but it's an innovation flyer because we can do it in a very inexpensive way? We can do a proof of concept or we can even have a partner funded by Amazon take a look at this and see if it's worthwhile. If you can do that, then the number of opportunities that you have to execute to drive innovation starts to go way up.

That's how we have conversations and much like planning poker, it's not so much where the bubbles fall, it's the differences - when you have different people in the organization put these things together and score them, because what those differences start to do is create a conversation where we start looking at the assumptions that were made when we scored those opportunities and why those assumptions are different and the experiences that the different people bring to that.

So you can do this yourself, we do this with our ISV customers, and that's basically what the RAP sessions that I mentioned are part of. So it allows us very, very quickly to get on the same page and then make sure that your SA, that your CSM, that your AM is focused on the same priorities - the top priorities that you've decided that are important - and that we're helping to deliver them with whatever programs, any of the 20-odd ones I think that I mentioned.

That's it for today. I hope you understand a little bit better about how we can help you as an ISV. It's not just at the technology level, it's at the business level as well. We've got a lot of folks that love to have these business discussions about software product delivery. And if it's something that you think you'd be interested in doing more, talk to your AM and we'll get in contact.

Ok, I want to thank you for staying and I'll hang around after the fact. If you have any questions just come up and talk to me.