SitePoint Podcast＃64：使用Russ Weakley学习网络

Episode 64 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week, Kevin Yank (@sentience) chats with Russ Weakley (@russmaxdesign) about SitePoint’s new courses, CSS Live and PHP Live, as well as the Web Standards Group and Full Code Press.

SitePoint Podcast的 第64集现已发布！ 本周，凯文·扬克( @sentience )聊天时与拉斯威克利( @russmaxdesign )关于SitePoint的新课程， CSS直播和PHP直播 ，还有Web标准组和全码出版社 。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #64: Learning the Web with Russ Weakley (MP3, 32:22, 29.7MB)

  SitePoint Podcast＃64：使用Russ Weakley学习网络 (MP3，32:22，29.7MB)

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Kevin: June 4th, 2010. CSS know-it-all Russ Weakley and I talk web education, Full Code Press, and more. I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #64: Learning the Web with Russ Weakley.

凯文(Kevin)： 2010年6月4日。CSS众所周知的Russ Weakley和我谈论网络教育，Full Code Press等。 我是Kevin Yank，这是SitePoint播客＃64：与Russ Weakley一起学习网络。

And this week I am joined by Russ Weakley. Russ you own and run Max Design, is that right?

本周我和拉斯·韦克利一起参加。 罗斯拥有并经营Max Design ，对吗？

Russ: That’s correct.

拉斯：没错。

Kevin: So what is Max Design?

凯文：那么Max Design是什么？

Russ: I suppose you could say it’s a web design business, but we do all sorts of things from designing to developing websites and teaching CSS.

拉斯：我想您可以说这是一个网页设计公司，但是我们从设计到开发网站到教授CSS都做各种各样的事情。

Kevin: Yeah. So my impression is that you’re like the — you’re the full time staff member there and that you do a lot of the work yourself but you also have friends that you draw on for any given project; you know people with various strengths. Is that pretty much how it works?

凯文：是的。 因此，我的印象是，您就像— —是那里的全职员工，您自己做很多工作，但您也有可以为任何给定项目借鉴的朋友； 你知道有很多优点的人。 那差不多是如何运作的吗？

Russ: Yes, it’s a lonely world, no one else in the office.

拉斯：是的，这是一个孤独的世界，办公室里没有其他人。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Russ: But yeah, we use what we call a plug and play model where if we need a skill set luckily I have a lot of people that I’ve got contact with, and I can quickly get people in, and so we build up a team based on need rather than teams that are available or already there.

拉斯：但是，是的，我们使用即插即用模型，如果我们需要一种技能，很幸运，我有很多人与我接触过，因此我可以很快吸引人，因此我们建立了基于需求的团队，而不是现有或已经存在的团队。

Kevin: I think a lot of people work that way on the Web.

凯文：我想很多人在网络上都这样工作。

Russ: Yeah.

拉斯：是的。

Kevin: It varies from project to project exactly what people expect of you, and often I guess what the client brings themselves, right?

凯文：随项目的不同，人们对您的期望也各不相同，而且我经常猜出客户带来了什么，对吗？

Russ: Absolutely. One of the things we learned years ago is that if you have a forced solution then it suits some clients but not all. Whereas the plug and play model means it’s completely adaptable; you can scale a team up or down, you can bring in skill sets as needed. So yeah, it’s just a much looser model and it suits the Web perfectly because they can also exist in different cities and different countries, it doesn’t matter.

拉斯：绝对。 几年前我们学到的一件事是，如果您有一个强制解决方案，那么它就适合某些客户，但并不适合所有客户。 即插即用模型意味着它完全可以适应； 您可以扩大或缩小团队规模，也可以根据需要引入技能。 是的，这只是一个松散的模型，非常适合Web，因为它们也可以存在于不同的城市和不同的国家，这无关紧要。

Kevin: So the reason we’re talking to Russ today is because you said it’s a lonely world as a web designer, especially a freelance one like yourself, and so we’ve gotten Russ out of his office for a bit, and Russ will be doing SitePoint’s CSS Live Course at the start of July.

凯文：所以我们今天与拉斯讨论的原因是，您说作为一个网页设计师，这是一个寂寞的世界，尤其是像您这样的自由职业者，因此我们将拉斯带离了办公室一段时间，拉斯将将于七月初进行SitePointCSS实时课程 。

Russ: July 5.

拉斯： 7月5日。

Kevin: July 5 it starts, and that comes right after PHP Live that I’ll be leading from the middle of June until the start of Russ’ course. So we’re both going to be doing courses over the next little while.

凯文： 7月5日开始，那是PHP Live之后的那一天，我将从6月中旬开始直到Russ课程开始。 因此，我们都将在接下来的一段时间内进行课程。

Russ this isn’t your first experience with teaching the Web to people, right?

拉斯(Russ)，这不是您向人们传授网络的第一次经验，对吗？

Russ: No, no I’ve been doing it for quite a while; far too long.

Russ：不，不，我已经做了一段时间了。 太久了。

Kevin: (laughs) Well, you say that but you were very eager to take on this new project.

凯文：(笑)好吧，你这么说，但是你非常渴望接受这个新项目。

Russ: Absolutely. I do really love it. Doing projects for people and fulfilling, you know, an end for a website is a great thing. But there’s nothing that really compares to sort of teaching people and have people get something, and that’s a really, without sounding corny, it’s quite an enriching experience.

拉斯：绝对。 我真的很喜欢它。 为人们做项目并实现网站的结局是一件好事。 但是，没有什么可以比得上教人和让人们得到东西了，这是真的，而且听起来很老套，这确实是一次丰富的体验。

Kevin: I know what you mean. I guess I first met you through the Web Standards Group, which is mostly Australian but there have been pockets of it springing up around the world. What’s the Web Standards Group do?

凯文：我明白你的意思。 我想我是通过Web Standards Group首次与您会面的， Web Standards Group主要是澳大利亚人，但是在世界范围内涌现出了很多人。 Web标准小组做什么？

Russ: Well, it’s primarily — its purpose was originally a bit of a con. Really what we want to do is just get web developers and web designers together. And early on the concept for web standards was something that was really new to people and something that was a very good vehicle to begin with. And so we just began a group called the Web Standards Group; but primarily it was just about letting designers and developers— giving them a space where they could chat in a mail list, but more importantly where they could meet and sort of have presentations and share and, you know, that sort of thing. So it’s been going for a long while, and they’re meetings that spring up and disappear, so it’s been as you’ve said a lot in Australia, but there have been some in Singapore and Russia and London and New Zealand. So all sorts of different countries have taken up at various times and ran meetings for periods.

拉斯：嗯，主要是-它的目的本来有点不利。 实际上，我们要做的只是将Web开发人员和Web设计师联系在一起。 在Web标准概念的早期，对于人们来说确实是新事物，并且从一开始就是一个很好的工具。 因此，我们刚刚成立了一个名为Web Standards Group的小组。 但主要是要让设计人员和开发人员—给他们一个可以在邮件列表中聊天的空间，但更重要的是，他们可以在那里见面并进行演示和共享，并且您知道这种事情。 所以它已经进行了很长一段时间了，他们的会议如雨后春笋般消失，所以正如您在澳大利亚所说的那样，在新加坡，俄罗斯，伦敦和新西兰也有很多。 因此，各种不同的国家/地区都在不同的时间参加会议并召开了一段时间的会议。

Kevin: So Russ is in Sydney and I’m here in Melbourne. So I only sort of kind of knew you were the leading force behind the Web Standards Group, but of course we were doing our own thing down here in Melbourne. I really got to know you recently, though, when you invited me to do the CSS courses around Australia— sorry, not CSS, JavaScript. The material for that became the core of the JavaScript Live course that I led last month, and that was a lot of fun.

凯文：拉斯说我在悉尼，我在墨尔本。 因此，我只是有点知道您是Web Standards Group背后的领导力量，但是我们当然在墨尔本做自己的事情。 但是，当您邀请我在澳大利亚进行CSS课程时，我真的很了解您-很抱歉，不是CSS，JavaScript。 相应的材料成为了我上个月主持的JavaScript Live课程的核心，这很有趣。

You’ve been doing workshops for how long now?

您参加研讨会已有多长时间了？

Russ: Um, it’s probably about five years.

拉斯：嗯，大概是五年。

Kevin: Five years.

凯文：五年。

Russ: I do two different sorts of workshops; one is the ones that we did together which are sort of like a series which we travel around different countries. But a lot more of my stuff is actually just onsite training where a company will get me in and have anything from three to ten developers or designers, and I just teach them for a day, which is also a lot of fun.

拉斯：我做两种不同的讲习班。 一个是我们一起做的，就像我们在不同国家旅行的一系列旅行一样。 但是实际上，我的很多工作只是现场培训，公司可以让我参与其中，并且拥有三到十名开发人员或设计师，而且我只是教他们一天，这也很有趣。

Kevin: Hmm. So this sort of stuff, the Web Standards Group, the workshops, it all sort of started around the same time for you.

凯文：嗯。 因此，Web Standards Group，讲习班之类的东西几乎都是在同一时间为您启动的。

Russ: Yeah, I suppose. I guess probably like you, when I began it was a very frustrating experience learning CSS, and there wasn’t a lot of resources out there at the time, whereas now there’s books and everything’s out there. So it really began out of, it was painful for me, it’d be great if I didn’t make it, you know, if I could stop some of that pain really.

拉斯：是的，我想。 我猜想可能像您一样，当我开始学习CSS时，这是一个非常令人沮丧的经历，当时没有太多的资源，而现在有书本，一应俱全。 因此，这真的是从开始开始的，这对我来说是痛苦的，如果我没有做到，那真是太好了，如果我真的能够阻止一些痛苦的话。

Kevin: Hmm. So as a web educator I guess you are continually being exposed to people who are just learning web design for the first time. I find that something I struggle with. Working at SitePoint in an office environment surrounded by people who live and breathe the Web, every once in a while I have to stop and remind myself that not everyone knows this stuff as well as the people around me. And you know that article that we wrote five years ago about getting started with CSS might not be the best way to learn CSS anymore.

凯文：嗯。 因此，作为一名网络教育工作者，我想您会不断接触刚开始学习Web设计的人们。 我发现我在挣扎。 我要在SitePoint的办公环境中居住和生活，而这些人经常生活在互联网中，有时我不得不停下来提醒自己，并不是每个人都和我周围的人一样了解这件事。 您知道我们五年前写的关于CSS入门的文章可能不再是学习CSS的最佳方法。

Russ: Hmm.

拉斯：嗯。

Kevin: So it’s exciting to come back to these concepts in a new format, for me, and refresh my memory as to what it means to learn this stuff for the first time and also see how it’s changed so much since I last looked at it from the beginner’s perspective. How for you— Is the Web changing a lot for beginners these days?

凯文：所以对我来说，以一种新的格式回到这些概念，并重新唤起我对第一次学习这些东西的含义以及我自从上次看过它以来发生的巨大变化的记忆，真是令人兴奋。从初学者的角度来看。 您的情况如何？对于初学者而言，网络现在正在发生很大变化吗？

Russ: Oh, yeah, I completely agree. First of all your first point I think that yes we constantly have to put ourselves in that mindset. I think that there’s a lot of articles written out there that are really good articles, but often they’re written from a perspective of someone who understands the Web, and so it’s very important that we go back down to—“down to”, it sounds really derogatory—sit at a level where you can discuss things that make sense to everybody. And in terms of how it’s changing, yes, it’s constantly changing. When I was learning CSS back in the dark ages, there was really very little, I think there was like three or four websites that did it, and so there was very little resources out there. And there was, you know, one of Eric Myer’s books or something like that.

拉斯：哦，是的，我完全同意。 首先，我认为是的，我们必须不断地将自己置于这种思维中。 我认为那里写了很多非常好的文章，但通常是从了解Web的人的角度写的，因此，重要的是我们回过头来-“下到……”，听起来确实是贬义-坐在一个可以讨论对所有人有意义的事情的水平上。 就其变化方式而言，是的，它一直在变化。 当我在黑暗时代学习CSS时，实际上很少，我认为有大约三四个网站在做CSS，因此那里的资源很少。 你知道，有埃里克·迈尔(Eric Myer)的书之一或类似的书。

Kevin: When you see “websites that did it” are you talking about like CSS, full CSS layout design?

凯文：当您看到“做到这一点的网站”时，您是在谈论CSS，即完整CSS布局设计吗？

Russ: Oh, no, there was none of them, and probably same as you when you start a move to CSS there was no big websites that were actually doing it. There were— what I meant was there were resources that explained how CSS worked.

Russ：哦，不，没有一个，当您开始使用CSS时可能与您相同，实际上没有大型网站在做。 有-我的意思是，有一些资源可以解释CSS的工作方式。

Kevin: Oh, right.

凯文：哦，对。

Russ: It was a fair while after that when the first rash of full CSS sites came along. I remember when Wired, when Doug Bowman pushed Wired out, that was probably a real tipping point when people suddenly realized, hey, this has gone mainstream now. But there was a period before that when, you know, a lot of people talked about it, it was much more theoretical; “we should be doing this.”

Russ：在那之后的一段相当不错的时间里，出现了第一批完整CSS网站。 我记得当《 连线》(Wired) ，道格·鲍曼(Doug Bowman)推出《连线》时，这可能是一个真正的转折点，人们突然意识到，嘿，现在这已成为主流。 但是，在此之前的一段时间，您知道，很多人都在谈论它，这是理论上的得多。 “我们应该这样做。”

Kevin: Well, yes, CSS was an optional extra for years.

凯文：是的，多年来，CSS都是可选的。

Russ: Yeah. And it was a frustrating thing because it was, you know, you’re battling with Netscape 4, which probably many of your listeners would have no idea what it was, but basically it was a bundle of pain.

拉斯：是的。 这是一件令人沮丧的事情，因为您正在与Netscape 4作战，也许许多听众都不知道它是什么，但是基本上这是一堆痛苦。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Russ: But, yes, it’s changed radically. I think the biggest shift is in some ways beginners are now dealing with overload of information whereas when I was learning it was a, you know, a lack of information. So now it’s not a matter of being able to find it, it’s just there’s so much information out there it’s more a question of where do I start? And there’s a lot of articles that provide a great deal of information, but a lot of them don’t start right at the base level and say here’s some basic building blocks, let’s build up from there.

拉斯：但是，是的，它已经彻底改变了。 我认为最大的转变是从某种程度上来说，初学者现在正在处理信息过多的问题，而当我学习时，这就是信息的缺乏。 因此，现在可以找到它不是问题，只是那里的信息太多，更多的是我应该从哪里开始的问题？ 并且有很多文章提供了大量信息，但是很多文章不是从基础级别开始的，而是说这是一些基本的构建基块，让我们从那里开始构建。

Kevin: When you talk about information overload it’s also the fact that, you know, if you expose yourself to that wide range of resources you find a lot of mixed messages and a lot of conflicting information.

凯文：当您谈论信息超载时，您也知道，如果您将自己暴露于如此广泛的资源中，则会发现很多混合消息和许多相互矛盾的信息。

Russ: Yeah. Absolutely. I think one of the classic examples of that is this concept of CSS reset where, for those who haven’t heard of that, that’s about, I suppose it’s about putting CSS back to a level playing field where you can force all browsers to render pages in the same way and then build your CSS up from that. And there is very contentious issues, opinions out online; and yes, if you’re new to it you can read something and think okay that makes sense and, you know, then five minutes later come across an article which categorically denies everything stated in the other article. So, yeah, it is; there’s a lot of stuff not only to address but also to work out where you stand when you’re learning.

拉斯：是的。 绝对。 我认为经典示例之一就是CSS重置的概念，对于那些尚未听说过CSS重置的人，我想这是关于将CSS放回到一个公平的竞争环境中，您可以强制所有浏览器渲染页面以相同的方式，然后从中构建CSS。 网上有很多争论的话题。 是的，如果您是新手，您可以阅读一些内容并认为是可以理解的，然后，五分钟后，您将看到一篇文章，该文章明确否认另一篇文章中所述的所有内容。 是的，是的。 有很多东西不仅要解决，还要弄清楚学习时的立场。

Kevin: And I know, you know, when I was setting up the JavaScript course I went back and because we had this book that I had written relatively recently, but I wanted to bring in as many of the old examples and resources as I had collected over the years. And looking at some of the old stuff I had done I was looking at it going, wow, today that’s really bad advice and it’s still out there.

凯文：我知道，当我设置JavaScript课程时，我回去了，因为我们有一本书是我最近写的，但是我想尽可能多地吸收旧的示例和资源。多年来收集。 看着我已经做过的一些旧事情，我一直在看着它，哇，今天这真是个糟糕的建议，而且仍然存在。

Russ: Yeah. Every course I run I start by saying, by the way, I’ve left a trail of destruction behind me, and I think all of us do; whether we admit it or not is another matter, but you change your methodologies quite regularly and you look back at stuff you did a year ago, two years ago. Hopefully you look and go I can see why I did it, but I’d do it slightly differently. But the further you go back the more you start to go, my God, what was I thinking, so I think it’s pretty important.

拉斯：是的。 顺便说一句，我跑的每道菜都说，我已经在我身后留下了毁灭的痕迹，我想我们所有人都这样做。 我们是否承认是另一回事，但是您会定期更改方法，然后回顾一下一年前，两年前的工作。 希望您随处可见，我能明白我为什么这样做，但我会做些不同。 但是，回头越远，您开始走的就越多，我的上帝，我在想什么，所以我认为这很重要。

Kevin: It’s something we’re working hard to get really a little more humble about at SitePoint. You know, we have books like—books with words like “the right way” in their title.

凯文：这是我们正在努力使SitePoint变得更加谦虚的东西。 您知道，我们有类似的书，书名中带有“正确方法”之类的词。

Russ: Yes.

拉斯：是的。

Kevin: And they’re great books, but especially now on the Web in the past few years I feel like things have started changing so quickly that you really can’t, I mean you could say today this is the best way to do this particular thing, and I can prove why that’s true today. But it’s really hard to pick even the simplest technique on the — that goes into building a website at the moment and saying that that is going to continue to be the best way even in six months time. So I felt like I’ve had to stop blaming people for following bad advice, and it really calls for a change of approach.

凯文：而且它们都是很棒的书，但是尤其是在过去的几年中，我觉得事情已经开始如此Swift地变化，以至于您真的不能改变，我的意思是您今天可以说这是做到这一点的最佳方法特别的事情，我可以证明为什么今天如此。 但是，即使是目前最简单的技术，也很难选择，它是目前用于构建网站的一种说法，并且说即使在六个月的时间里，这仍将是最佳方法。 因此，我觉得我不得不停止责怪人们遵循错误的建议，这确实需要改变方法。

Russ: I couldn’t agree with you more. I mean one of the things starting in the Web Standards Group sort of movement quite early, I mean obviously there were people well before I came on the scene, but one of the things that I used to really find of concern was that people would talk about simple things in black and white terms; this is the way to do it, that’s not the way to do it. And I always found that, one, it was a big turn-off to people just starting because to say to someone you must do it this way when they may not be able to from a skill perspective or from a software perspective or from a CMS perspective, it’s not a great approach. But as you say, you know, what’s right now may not be right in future.

拉斯：我完全同意你的看法。 我的意思是，Web Standards Group起步很早，其中之一是很早就开始了，我的意思是很显然，在我出现之前就有很多人，但是我以前真正感到担忧的一件事是，人们会谈论关于黑白简单的事情； 这是这样做的方式，而不是这样做的方式。 我总是发现，这对刚开始的人们来说是一个很大的选择，因为当某人可能无法从技能角度，软件角度或CMS上对他们说时，必须以这种方式进行操作角度来看，这不是一个好方法。 但是正如您所说，您知道，现在的情况将来可能不正确。

The other thing is that sometimes it’s completely debatable. I think early on one of the first lessons I learned about that was when I think it was SimpleBits put out those quick quizzes which would say how would you mark up this solution?

另一件事是，有时它是完全有争议的。 我认为在我学到的第一批课程的早期，就是当我认为正是SimpleBits提出了一些快速测验时，他们会说您将如何标记该解决方案？

Kevin: Oh, wow.

凯文：哦，哇。

Russ: And the massive range of ways that people came in and argued vehemently that this was the best way, it became quickly clear that even something like semantic markup was so much personal opinion involved.

Russ：人们进入并激烈地争论这是最好的方法，但很快就很清楚，甚至语义标记之类的东西也涉及很多个人意见。

Kevin: Yeah, it’s subjective at times.

凯文：是的，有时是主观的。

Russ: Yes!

拉斯：是的！

Kevin: When we’re hiring developers at SitePoint we have for various types of positions we have different tests that we can administer, and some candidates will just give us their answer, some candidates will go, well, your question is flawed because this is a gray area, and here is my essay on the various options and why you would pursue one over the other.

凯文：当我们在SitePoint聘用开发人员时，我们有各种各样的职位，我们可以管理不同的测试，有些应聘者会给我们答案，有些应聘者会走，嗯，您的问题有缺陷，因为这是一个灰色的区域，这是我的文章，介绍各种选择以及为什么您会追求另一种选择。

You know, if someone gives us what we would consider a correct answer they get full points for that, but if someone goes to the trouble of explaining the pros and cons of things I’m thinking, I’m starting to think that maybe they are better suited to a career as a web educator than a developer.

您知道，如果有人给我们提供我们认为正确的答案，他们将获得满分，但是如果有人麻烦解释我正在考虑的事情的利弊，我就会开始认为也许他们比开发人员更适合作为网络教育工作者的职业。

Russ: Yeah, I think you’ve hit it on the head that a lot of designers and developers are very sure that their answer is correct, and that’s fine, but as an educator, I’m not sure I like the term, but as a web educator you have to be very careful about making categorical statements in any shape or form.

Russ：是的，我想您已经意识到很多设计师和开发人员都非常肯定他们的答案是正确的，这很好，但是作为一名教育工作者，我不确定我是否喜欢这个词，但是作为网络教育者，您在制作任何形状或形式的分类陈述时必须非常小心。

Kevin: Hmm. So with all of that in mind, you’ve signed up to participate in this ongoing experiment that we have at SitePoint, these new Live courses, and I’ve said a whole lot over the past couple of months about how exciting this is for me. What really sold it for you, because I don’t feel that I had to twist your arm a whole lot when I brought this up?

凯文：嗯。 因此，考虑到所有这些，您已经注册参加我们在SitePoint进行的正在进行的实验，这些新的Live课程，并且在过去的几个月中，我已经说了很多关于该过程令人兴奋的事情我。 是什么真正卖给您的，是因为我不觉得当我提起它时我不必扭动您的手臂吗？

Russ: What sold it for me? Well, I suppose the biggest thing for me was I’ve been doing a lot of stuff in front of people, standing in front of people talking about CSS in the past. But something that this offered was just something brand new. There are a lot of online courses and there are a lot of workshops that have covered, but very rarely have I come across something where it’s kind of the whole range in one place. And when you described the course to me, you know, I was pretty well sold on the spot; the idea that you can have courses that are sort of based on a day or a lesson, and that they involve a range of different media so they can involve videos and articles and presentations. And then on top of that you can have places where people can go and chat directly after the lesson and share their ideas. I mean it’s pretty well got everything that you need, and then you talked about the Q&A sessions and that’s where on top of all that they can talk live to the person running workshop, the course, so it’s an amazing setup.

拉斯：是什么卖给我的？ 好吧，我想对我来说最大的事情就是我在人们面前做过很多事情，过去站在谈论CSS的人们面前。 但是，这提供的只是全新的东西。 有很多在线课程，也有很多讲习班，但是我很少碰到一个地方涵盖整个范围的东西。 当您向我介绍这门课程时，您知道，我当场卖得很好。 这样的想法是，您可以开设基于一天或一堂课的课程，并且这些课程涉及多种不同的媒体，因此可以涉及视频，文章和演示文稿。 然后最重要的是，您可以找到一个地方，人们可以在课后直接聊天并分享他们的想法。 我的意思是，它很满足您的需求，然后您讨论了问答环节，而这是他们可以与运营研讨会的人进行实时交谈的最佳途径，这是一个了不起的设置。

Kevin: Yeah, what’s— Like, I talk about JavaScript Live in the past tense at the moment, but the fact is that we ran the course in this live format where three thousand-some odd people signed up and they were taking the course together over three weeks. And while that was going on the doors were shut, we weren’t accepting any new people into the course. But in the past week we have re-launched JavaScript Live as sort of a non-live version. So all of those materials, those 12 lessons plus three Q&A sessions and a private forum, that stuff you can now buy access to that stuff and start taking it at your own pace.

凯文：是的-就像，我现在以过去时态谈论JavaScript Live，但事实是我们以这种实时格式运行了该课程，其中有三千多名奇怪的人报名参加了培训，三个多星期。 而且，尽管那关上了门，但我们不接受任何新人加入。 但是在过去的一周中，我们将JavaScript Live重新发布为非实时版本。 因此，所有这些材料，这12课，三个问答环节和一个私人论坛，您现在都可以购买这些内容的访问权限，并按照自己的进度开始学习。

Russ: So what happens to the Q&A live? Are they cloning you and putting you in…?

拉斯：那么现场问答会如何？ 他们是在克隆您并把您放进去吗？

Kevin: (laughs) Well, that’s the thing. It’s kind of the non-live version of JavaScript Live, so you can watch the Q&A session that was run last month, and it’s reasonably up to date. But when you were talking about the fact that this— that there’s no right answer anymore and things are really changing very quickly, that’s what’s exciting about this for me because we developed that course sort of on the fly. And I was building the second week of the course while people were going through the first week.

凯文：(笑)就是这样。 这是JavaScript Live的非实时版本，因此您可以观看上个月运行的Q＆A会话，并且它是最新的。 但是，当您谈论这样一个事实时，即不再有正确的答案，而且事情真的在Swift变化，这对我来说是令人兴奋的，因为我们正在动态开发这种课程。 我正在课程的第二周，而人们正在经历第一周。

Russ: Oh, no, don’t tell people that. You were professional; you had it all completely set up.

拉斯：哦，不，不要告诉别人。 你是专业的； 您已经完全设置好了。

Kevin: (laughs) No, this is a feature of it to me.

凯文：(笑)不，这是我的特点。

Russ: Okay. (laughs)

拉斯：好的。 (笑)

Kevin: Because people were asking questions, and when I realized that something was a sticking point or a little confusing in the first week, I could address it in the second week.

凯文：因为人们在问问题，当我意识到在第一周出现问题的症结或有点困惑时，我可以在第二周解决。

Russ: Yeah.

拉斯：是的。

Kevin: And as we went through the course I’ve taken notes for myself as things that could be clearer, and in some cases there were people who were taking the course, they were taking it kind of as a refresher, but they knew JavaScript fairly well. And they would push me on certain issues and go, well, why are you doing it this way when I think doing it this other way is just as good?

凯文：在学习本课程的过程中，我为自己做的笔记可能会更加清晰，在某些情况下，有些人正在参加本课程，他们将其作为一种复习，但是他们知道JavaScript相当好。 他们会在某些问题上推动我前进，好吧，当我认为以其他方式这样做同样好时，为什么要以这种方式这样做呢？

Russ: And so in those cases did you immediately kick them out and say you’re not welcome back?

拉斯：那么在这种情况下，您是否立即将他们踢出去并说您不欢迎您回来？

Kevin: (laughs) Yeah, that’s right, we put them in a separate forum where they could play by themselves.

凯文：(笑)是的，是的，我们将他们放在一个单独的论坛中，他们可以自己玩。

Russ: (laughs) The troublemakers.

拉斯：(笑)麻烦制造者。

Kevin: (laughs) But the thing is although we’re now offering a static version of the course, I’m really looking forward to going back and re-offering the next live iteration of that same course and taking the opportunity to tweak and refresh those materials. And rather than have these articles that you publish once and that stick around for years on the Web and become stale and out of date and become sources of bad advice for people, these courses I’m really hopeful that the interactive nature, the fact that the instructor is in constant communication and going through this feedback cycle with the course participants, that it’s going to allow those course materials to be refreshed and improved and kept up to date over time.

凯文：(笑)但事实是，尽管我们现在提供的是该课程的静态版本，但我真的很期待回到并重新提供同一课程的下一个实时迭代，并借此机会进行调整和刷新那些材料。 这些课程不是让您一次发表这些文章，并且在网络上停留了多年，变得陈旧和过时，成为了对人们不利建议的来源，而是让我希望这些课程具有交互性，讲师将与课程参与者保持不断的沟通，并在此反馈周期中进行交流，以使这些课程资料可以得到更新和改进，并可以随时更新。

Russ: Yeah, it’s a great idea. I think one thing you might have to do, though, is for these ones where they’re not quite live; it might have to be relabeled semi-live.

拉斯：是的，这是个好主意。 但是，我认为您可能要做的一件事就是针对那些生活不充分的人。 它可能必须重新标记为半有效。

Kevin: (laughs) Not live; JavaScript not-so-live.

凯文：(笑)不活； JavaScript不太实用。

Russ: Something else, I noticed that teaching CSS over these years, um, that it’s constantly iterated for me that I’ll put something out there and I’ll try and explain it, and you can see in a classroom setting where people look at you blankly and you go, man, I won’t explain it that way again. And so the next time round you explain it differently and after a while you quickly see that people, if you explain it a certain way, people go yes I get it. And so over five years you build up quite a good understanding of how not to explain something.

Russ：还有别的，我注意到这些年来教授CSS了，嗯，我一直在不断地反复尝试，我会把一些东西放在那里，我会尝试解释一下，并且您可以在人们看到的教室环境中看到茫然地看着你，你走了，伙计，我不会再这样解释了。 因此，下一次回合您将以不同的方式解释它，过一会儿您很快就会看到人们，如果您以某种方式解释它，人们就会同意我的理解。 因此，在过去的五年中，您对如何不解释某件事有了很好的了解。

Kevin: Uh-huh.

凯文：嗯。

Russ: Obviously it’s permanently changing, even over the course I ran with you around Australia, I noticed that over the four days that I ran the in-depth workshop, and probably you felt the same, that you would explain something or talk about something and over the four workshops you’d explain it slightly differently or add something in slightly differently. So it’s a permanent, permanent iteration.

Russ：显然，这是永久性的变化，即使在我与您一起在澳大利亚各地旅行的过程中，我也注意到在我进行深入研讨会的四天中，您可能会感到与您相同，您会解释一些事情或谈论一些事情在这四个工作坊中，您会稍有不同的解释，或在内容上稍有不同。 因此，这是一个永久的永久迭代。

Kevin: Yeah. And what I find with these courses is the social aspect of it means that even if, you know, not everyone will understand the same explanation. If you come up with the perfect explanation for CSS positioning contexts, to pull something out of the air, even at your best you’re only gonna get 90 percent of the people to completely click in on your way of explaining it.

凯文：是的。 我从这些课程中学到的是它的社会方面，这意味着，即使您知道，并不是每个人都能理解相同的解释。 如果您对CSS定位上下文提出了完美的解释，那么即使想尽力而为，您也只能让90％的人完全点击您的解释方式。

Russ: Absolutely.

拉斯：绝对。

Kevin: But the fact with these courses, that 10 percent who don’t really get it immediately hop in the forum and go I didn’t really get it when Kev was talking about this. And the other 90 percent of the class are really keen to share their newfound wisdom, they’ve just managed to understand this tricky concept, and they’re really excited to share that knowledge. And what you find is five people jump in on that forum thread and explain it in their own way.

凯文：但是这些课程的事实是，当凯夫(Kev)谈论这个问题时，没有真正得到它的10％的人立即跳到论坛上去，而我却没有真正得到它。 班上其他90％的人真的很想分享他们的新发现的智慧，他们刚刚设法理解了这个棘手的概念，并且对分享这些知识感到非常兴奋。 您会发现有五个人加入了该论坛主题，并以自己的方式进行了解释。

Russ: Oh, that’s fantastic.

拉斯：哦，太好了。

Kevin: And so if you don’t get it the way the instructors explained it, you’ve got five other students jumping in within minutes ready to teach it to you their own way. And so it’s really exciting; if you don’t get it the way one person explains it you can try someone else’s explanation and someone else’s explanation. And I’ve yet to see someone walk away from the forum going, yeah, I really don’t get this, sorry this isn’t working for me. It’s surprising.

凯文：因此，如果您没有按照讲师的说明来理解它，那么您将有五名其他学生在几分钟之内跳入课堂，准备以自己的方式教给您。 因此，这确实令人兴奋。 如果您不能按照一个人的解释来理解它，可以尝试别人的解释和别人的解释。 而且我还没有看到有人离开论坛而去，是的，我真的不明白，抱歉，这对我没有用。 令人惊讶

Russ: I’m really looking forward to this. It will be a lot of fun. And if nothing else then we can steal some of these explanations.

拉斯：我真的很期待。 这会很有趣。 如果没有别的，那么我们可以窃取其中的一些解释。

Kevin: (laughs) Yeah, exactly. I’ll be taking notes, people, taking notes.

凯文：(笑)是的。 我会做笔记，人，做笔记。

So you’re teaching the CSS course.

因此，您正在教授CSS课程。

Russ: Hmm-mm. I’m sorry, is that what I’m doing? I thought I was doing Flash.

拉斯：嗯。 对不起，我在做什么吗？ 我以为我在做Flash。

Kevin: (laughs) That’s next; we’ll get you to do Flash next.

凯文：(笑)是下一个； 我们将带您接下来做Flash。

Russ: God, no, don’t do that.

拉斯：上帝，不，不要那样做。

Kevin: So why — like what has you excited about CSS at the moment? You got me to come and teach the JavaScript course, and Roger Hudson was teaching the Accessibility course; you know this stuff, you chose CSS to teach yourself. Why is that the cherry topic for you?

凯文：那为什么-像您目前对CSS感到兴奋吗？ 您让我来教授JavaScript课程，而Roger Hudson则在教授辅助功能课程。 您知道这件事，就选择CSS来教自己。 为什么给您这个樱桃主题？

Russ: Well, number one, I don’t know anything about JavaScript, so there goes that option.

Russ：好吧，第一，我对JavaScript一无所知，因此有了这个选择。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Russ: I suppose it’s always been a passion. And to answer your question about where we are now, I think it’s an amazing time to be learning CSS because I don’t know about you, but for years there’s been all these amazing selectors, for example, that I just haven’t taught people simply because there’s nothing worse than standing in front of a group and saying here’s a selector that is fantastic but you just can’t use yet.

拉斯：我想一直以来都是一种激情。 回答您关于我们现在的位置的问题，我认为这是学习CSS的绝佳时机，因为我不了解您，但是多年来，例如，我一直没有教过这些惊人的选择器人们仅仅是因为没有比站在团队面前说这是一个很棒的选择器更糟糕的选择了，但是您还不能使用。

Kevin: Yeah.

凯文：是的。

Russ: And we’re on the cusp now where a lot of this stuff can be used. And so there’s a real change in — you know for the first time this year even in the basic course I taught every single selector. And I said these are really worth knowing now because, you know, IE9 is coming along and it’s a time when we can really accept that all browsers are on the money. So it is a fantastic time to be sort of in this industry and learning about CSS.

Russ：现在我们正处于风口浪尖，可以使用很多这类东西。 因此，这确实发生了变化-您甚至今年第一次知道，即使在我教每个选择器的基础课程中。 我说这些现在真的很值得知道，因为IE9即将到来，这是我们真正接受所有浏览器都在赚钱的时候。 因此，这是进入该行业并了解CSS的绝佳时机。

Kevin: Yeah, during that Internet Explorer 6 lull there was just, you know, the browsers stopped moving but the standards kept moving forward. And those of us who had come to grips with what you could do in browsers today, it was very easy for us to get excited about what might be coming next. And you want to tell everyone what might be coming next, but to someone learning CSS for the first time, and considering it as a new tool, it’s kind of — I mean it must ring really hollow when you go here’s the most exciting thing about CSS but you can’t use it yet.

凯文：是的，在Internet Explorer 6暂停期间，浏览器停止了移动，但是标准仍在向前发展。 和那些已经掌握了当今浏览器功能的人一样，我们很容易对接下来可能发生的事情感到兴奋。 您想告诉所有人接下来会发生什么，但是对于第一次学习CSS并将其视为新工具的人来说，这是一种–我的意思是，当您进入此处时，它一定会变得非常空洞CSS，但是您还不能使用它。

Russ: Exactly right.

拉斯：完全正确。

Kevin: And they go, you might as well have just made it up, there’s no practical use for that in the real world.

凯文：而且他们走了，您可能也已经做好了，在现实世界中没有实际用途。

Russ: I think you’ve hit it on the head. I used to — in the very beginning I used to teach people everything that was possible, and then there’s a huge gap between the theory of CSS and the real world of CSS, even today. And so I quickly changed and moved back to teaching ways that you can basically walk out the door and use it on the spot. And luckily now that gap between theory and reality is much, much tighter than it was. But for those that were before the IE6 era, the Netscape 4 era was far worse. So for people that have been round even longer—

拉斯：我想你已经把它撞上了头。 我曾经-从一开始就向人们传授所有可能的知识，然后，即使在今天，CSS的理论与CSS的真实世界之间仍然存在巨大差距。 因此，我Swift改变了想法，回到教学方法上，基本上可以走出门并在现场使用它。 幸运的是，现在理论与现实之间的鸿沟比过去要紧密得多。 但是对于那些在IE6之前的时代，Netscape 4时代要糟糕得多。 因此，对于圆整更长的人来说，

Kevin: I must have blocked it out.

凯文：我一定阻止了它。

Russ: (laughs) But that period was far, far worse, so. A lot of people used to whinge about IE6 and I kept thinking you should have been around during the Netscape 4 era.

拉斯：(笑)但是那个时期远比这差得多。 很多人曾经抱怨IE6，而我一直认为您应该在Netscape 4时代到来。

Kevin: Yeah. So does that mean in five years time people will going, wow, that Firefox era, that really sucked.

凯文：是的。 因此，这是否意味着人们将在五年时间内走到哇，Firefox时代真的很烂。

Russ: (laughs) Well, you know, what’s interesting is that you look at the mobile space, and to me the mobile space is reminiscent of the early browser wars era. You know, in the early days we had all these different devices and they’re all doing different things, and it was a chaotic landscape. And if you look at the mobile industry that’s the same, and even some of the CSS3 selectors, some of those sort of areas where in order to make a CSS3 selector work you have to do vendor specific properties and things like that. So in some ways what’s old is new again.

Russ ：(笑)嗯，你知道，有趣的是，你看着移动空间，而对我来说，移动空间让人想起早期浏览器战争时代。 您知道，在早期，我们拥有所有这些不同的设备，并且它们都在做不同的事情，这是一片混乱的景象。 而且，如果您查看的是相同的移动行业，甚至是一些CSS3选择器，那么在某些领域中，为了使CSS3选择器起作用，您必须执行特定于供应商的属性，诸如此类。 因此，在某些方面，旧的东西又是新的东西。

Kevin: Hmm. So what has you most excited in the CSS world at the moment? I know you talked my ear off for about half an hour in Brisbane about media queries; is that where you heart is at the moment?

凯文：嗯。 那么，您目前在CSS世界中最激动的是什么？ 我知道您在布里斯班谈论媒体查询大约半小时； 那是你现在心中的所在吗？

Russ: Yeah, I suppose. I think a lot of people focus on CSS3 and the cool factor. So they’ll be talking to you about drop shadows and transitions and things like that, which I think they’re all great and obviously round corners and things like that. But to me I think the two most amazing features that people should be really be getting a handle on are CSS3 selectors and media queries, because those two are like the ultimate weapons for designers and developers. They allow us to build websites in amazing new ways. And also in terms of selectors they allow us to target different aspects of the code with minimal mark-up, and I think that’s something which I know that you’re in the same boat, that the cleaner you can keep your markup the better. And with CSS3 so much more power enables you to target onto elements and say make that element red, etcetera.

拉斯：是的，我想。 我认为很多人关注CSS3和酷因素。 因此，他们将与您讨论投影和过渡以及类似的事情，我认为它们都很出色，而且显然是圆角之类的事情。 但对我而言，我认为人们应该真正了解的两个最神奇的功能是CSS3选择器和媒体查询，因为这两个功能对于设计人员和开发人员而言就像是终极武器。 它们使我们能够以惊人的新方式构建网站。 而且在选择器方面，它们使我们能够以最少的标记来定位代码的不同方面，我想这就是我所知的，你在同一条船上，可以使标记保持得越干净越好。 借助CSS3，强大的功能使您可以定位到元素，并说使该元素变为红色等。

Kevin: So let’s shift gears here a minute and talk about your other project. Gosh, you have no shortage of things to keep you busy, Russ. But tell us a bit about Full Code Press because down here in Australia Full Code Press is a big deal, but I suspect there’s plenty of people listening who haven’t heard of Full Code Press.

凯文：所以让我们在这里稍等一下，谈谈您的其他项目。 天哪，Russ，您会忙得不可开交。 但是，请告诉我们一些有关Full Code Press的信息，因为在澳大利亚这里，Full Code Press的确很重要，但是我怀疑还有很多人没有听说过Full Code Press。

Russ: Yeah, it’s an interesting idea. It came from a guy called Mike Brown from— he runs Webstock in New Zealand, and basically just rang me up one day and said why don’t we do a competition between Australia and New Zealand for bragging rights. But the key point of it was that it would be for charity. So basically the idea is that two teams, one from Australia, one from New Zealand, are given a charity, a real charity website, and they’re literally given 24 hours. So at the start of the competition they’re literally handed their clients, physical clients; they sit down, they get a brief, and 24 hours later they have to have full and complete website. And it’s an amazing competition to watch; I’ve never participated in it being an organizer, so I’m sure it’s hell for the participants—

拉斯：是的，这是一个有趣的想法。 它来自一个叫Mike Brown的人，他在新西兰经营Webstock ，基本上是给我打电话的一天，他说我们为什么不在澳大利亚和新西兰之间争夺吹牛的权利。 但关键是要慈善。 因此，基本上的想法是，给两个团队(一个来自澳大利亚，一个来自新西兰)进行慈善，这是一个真正的慈善网站，而且实际上是24小时提供给他们。 因此，在比赛开始时，他们实际上是将客户，实际客户交给了客户。 他们坐下来，简要介绍一下，然后24小时后，他们必须拥有完整的网站。 这场比赛值得一看。 我从来没有参加过作为组织者的活动，所以我确定对于参加者来说这是地狱。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Russ: —but I don’t care about them. What’s been amazing is that seeing the clients walk away with a complete website has just been quite a staggering thing that they’re genuinely so appreciative of what these teams are able to achieve in such a short time.

拉斯： —但我不在乎他们。 令人惊讶的是，看到客户离开一个完整的网站真是令人惊讶的事情，他们真的很欣赏这些团队在如此短的时间内所能取得的成就。

Kevin: Do you find that, I don’t know, do you find that these sites that are generated could be accused of being demo-ware, that they’re just barely able to hold up to scrutiny of a judging panel but you wouldn’t want to actually put them out on the Web the next day? Is there more work to be done after Full Code Press is over?

凯文：您是否发现，我不知道，您是否发现这些生成的网站可能被指控为演示软件，它们几乎无法承受评审团的审查，但您不会不想在第二天将它们实际发布到网络上？ Full Code Press结束后还有其他工作要做吗？

Russ: Well, there are two things here. One, both these are good points; one is that after they were handed over, in almost every case the team has gone to the client and said this is pretty well ready to go live, but there’s a couple little things if we’d had more time we’d like to do. And in most cases just off their own back the teams have chosen to work a little bit extra to tweak some things that they would like to have seen improved over that 24 hour period.

拉斯：嗯，这里有两件事。 第一，两者都是优点。 一个是在移交他们之后，几乎在所有情况下，团队都去了客户那里，并说已经做好了上线的准备，但是如果我们有更多的时间想做的话，还有一些小事情。 。 在大多数情况下，团队会选择自己做一些额外的工作来调整一些他们希望在这24小时内有所改善的事情。

But I think the bigger question is what’s the quality of what’s being handed over. And in all years we’ve had a serious panel of judges, like it has been quite a rigorous process. And the judges have always been really impressed with the quality of the product. And I think a lot of people forget that— they look of it is you’re building a site within 24 hours; what they often forget to realize is that really in the past years it’s been seven people. So if you put seven people times 24 hours, I’m no good at maths, but that adds up to a lot of hours. And the reality is on small projects the amount of time you put in that 24 hours is almost equivalent to a small team working on a non-for-profit website anyway. So it’s not that far removed in the actual hours that would have been spent, it’s just all condensed down into a panicky, sweaty 24 hours.

但我认为，更大的问题是所移交产品的质量如何。 多年来，我们都有一个严肃的法官小组，就像它是一个非常严格的过程一样。 评委们对产品的质量一直印象深刻。 我认为很多人都忘记了–他们看起来是您在24小时内建立网站； 他们常常忘记意识到的是，过去几年确实只有七个人。 因此，如果您在24小时内放7个人次，我的数学并不擅长，但这加起来要花很多时间。 事实是，在小型项目上，您在那24小时内投入的时间几乎等于一个小型团队在一个非营利性网站上工作的时间。 因此，在实际花费的时间中并没有移开它，而是全部浓缩成了一个充满恐慌，满头大汗的24小时。

Kevin: Yeah, my calculator says that’s 168 man-hours, and that is pretty significant.

凯文：是的，我的计算器说这是168个工时，这非常重要。

Russ: Yeah, I think when you look at it like that if you were to say to someone, you know, could I build a website in 168 hours start to finish, you’d say absolutely. And I think it’s just the way you look at it; people focus on the 24 hours rather than the actual person hours, if you know what I mean.

拉斯：是的，我想，如果您要对某人说，您知道，我可以在168小时内完成一个网站的建设吗，您绝对会说。 我认为这只是您看待它的方式。 如果您知道我的意思，那么人们将注意力集中在24小时而不是实际的人小时上。

Kevin: So I know last year there was a bit of a clash between the two teams, and one of the teams used like a ready-made content management system, and the other sort of did a build from scratch kind of approach; is my memory serving me right?

凯文：所以我知道去年这两个团队之间有些冲突，其中一个团队的使用就像一个现成的内容管理系统，而另一个则是从头开始的。 我的记忆对我有用吗？

Russ: Yes. Well, it’s actually both years in fact. And oddly enough, in both cases the New Zealand team built from scratch and the Australians chose I think the first year I believe it was either Drupal or Joomla — I think it was Drupal, and the second year, last year, was WordPress.

拉斯：是的。 好吧，实际上实际上是两年。 奇怪的是，在这两种情况下，新西兰团队都是从零开始建立的，澳大利亚人选择了我认为第一年是Drupal或Joomla，我认为是Drupal，第二年是WordPress。

Kevin: Yeah. Well I know Brad Williams, one of our regular co-hosts would approve of the choice of WordPress. Did that site win?

凯文：是的。 好吧，我知道布拉德·威廉姆斯(Brad Williams)是我们的定期共同主持人之一，会赞成选择WordPress。 该网站赢了吗？

Russ: No!

拉斯：不！

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Russ: In fact, as embarrassing as it is to admit, the Australian team has, I’m not going to use the word lost, come second on both occasions.

拉斯：实际上，尽管承认这一点很尴尬，但澳大利亚队已经不使用“迷失”这个词了，两次都屈居第二。

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Russ: This year — this year there’s three teams because there’s the Dream Team coming from the States.

拉斯：今年-今年有三支球队，因为有来自美国的梦之队。

Kevin: Whoa!

凯文：哇！

Russ: So it’s held in Wellington, and this year it’s not only the Aussies versus New Zealand, but Aussie versus New Zealand versus USA, so there’s gonna be some blood and sweat on the floor for sure.

拉斯：所以它在惠灵顿举行，今年不仅是澳大利亚对新西兰，而且是澳大利亚对新西兰对美国，因此肯定会有一些鲜血和汗水。

Kevin: Gee. I was gonna say I could see this model working as a Canada versus the United States in North America.

凯文：天哪。 我要说的是，我可以看到这种模式在加拿大与加拿大对美国的比较中发挥了作用。

Russ: Absolutely.

拉斯：绝对。

Kevin: Maybe even Britain versus France in Europe, something like that; I’m sure there’s some national rivalries that you could exploit.

凯文：也许在欧洲，甚至英国对法国也是如此。 我确信您可以利用一些国家竞争。

Russ: Yeah. Well, oddly enough, when we first — when we ran the first event we went all sort of open sourced and said actually what we can do is just open this up to competitions around the world. And we sort of started to put our feelers out there to see who’s interested, and then were just bombarded with people from around the world just saying we want to take part. And we had to take a step back and just went, hang on, this is a huge undertaking. So it’s something we’re still interested in, but I mean both Mike and I have to run jobs and things like that, and really to do that, while it would be amazing, it would be like a full time career.

拉斯：是的。 好吧，很奇怪，当我们第一次参加比赛时，我们进行了各种开源活动，并说实际上我们可以做的就是向世界各地的比赛开放。 然后，我们开始将探棒放到那里看谁感兴趣，然后遭到来自世界各地的人们的轰炸，只是说我们想参加。 我们不得不退后一步，继续前进，坚持下去，这是一项艰巨的任务。 因此，这是我们仍然感兴趣的事情，但是我的意思是，迈克和我都必须从事类似的工作，并且确实要做到这一点，尽管这将是惊人的，但它却像是一份全职工作。

Kevin: Right.

凯文：对。

Russ: So it’s something that we’re interested in doing, but —

Russ: So it's something that we're interested in doing, but —

Kevin: We could kiss our CSS Live Course goodbye is what you’re saying.

Kevin: We could kiss our CSS Live Course goodbye is what you're saying.

Russ: (laughs) For sure.

Russ: (laughs) For sure.

Kevin: So when is Full Code Press kicking off this year?

Kevin: So when is Full Code Press kicking off this year?

Russ: It’s kicking off, he says looking at the website dates, 19th and 20th of June, so quite soon.

Russ: It's kicking off, he says looking at the website dates, 19th and 20th of June, so quite soon.

Kevin: Alright! Wow, so that’ll be done and dusted by the time your course starts up.

Kevin: Alright! Wow, so that'll be done and dusted by the time your course starts up.

Russ: Yes, and oddly enough, I think I can hear Mike’s voice in the back of my head saying, Russ, make sure that you tell them about the workshop you’re running over there.

Russ: Yes, and oddly enough, I think I can hear Mike's voice in the back of my head saying, Russ, make sure that you tell them about the workshop you're running over there.

Mike asked me to run a CSS workshop I think the two days before Full Code Press takes place. So —

Mike asked me to run a CSS workshop I think the two days before Full Code Press takes place. So —

Kevin: Hopefully not for the benefit of the teams.

Kevin: Hopefully not for the benefit of the teams.

Russ: (laughs) God, no!

Russ: (laughs) God, no!

Kevin: (laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Russ: If the teams are sitting in on the workshops we’ve got a lot of problems on our hands. No these are — I think that we can call them crack teams; is that a word you use, crack teams?

Russ: If the teams are sitting in on the workshops we've got a lot of problems on our hands. No these are — I think that we can call them crack teams; is that a word you use, crack teams?

Kevin: Oh, absolutely. So you’ve got the dream team, you’ve got the crack team, which I assume is the New Zealand team.

Kevin: Oh, absolutely. So you've got the dream team, you've got the crack team, which I assume is the New Zealand team.

Russ: I don’t know, I think the word crack has too many bad connotations, so we should stay away from it (laughs).

Russ: I don't know, I think the word crack has too many bad connotations, so we should stay away from it (laughs).

Kevin: (laughs) So Full Code Press is coming up June 19th, we’ve got PHP Live starting June 14th, that’s me running that for three weeks, and then on July 5th we’ve got Russ starting CSS Live. And you can take JavaScript Live, the non-live version, right now if you want to get started.

Kevin: (laughs) So Full Code Press is coming up June 19th, we've got PHP Live starting June 14th, that's me running that for three weeks, and then on July 5th we've got Russ starting CSS Live . And you can take JavaScript Live , the non-live version, right now if you want to get started.

So thanks for joining me today Russ.

So thanks for joining me today Russ.

Russ: It’s been an honor.

Russ: It's been an honor.

Kevin: It’s been a great chat. I look forward to a de-brief after our two courses are over because, yeah, its exciting stuff and I can’t wait to see what you thought of it in retrospect.

Kevin: It's been a great chat. I look forward to a de-brief after our two courses are over because, yeah, its exciting stuff and I can't wait to see what you thought of it in retrospect.

Russ: Yeah, I’m sure it’s gonna be a lot of fun. I can’t wait to meet people in the forums, and if it’s as good as you say I may never leave; I may just dive into the forums and never come out.

Russ: Yeah, I'm sure it's gonna be a lot of fun. I can't wait to meet people in the forums, and if it's as good as you say I may never leave; I may just dive into the forums and never come out.

Kevin: Ha, ha, ha, ha. Well, they’ll need to find someone else to run Full Code Press next year.

Kevin: Ha, ha, ha, ha. Well, they'll need to find someone else to run Full Code Press next year.

Thanks again, Russ.

Thanks again, Russ.

Russ: No worries.

Russ: No worries.

Kevin: And thanks for listening to the SitePoint Podcast. If you have any thoughts or questions about today’s interview, please do get in touch. You can find SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, and you can find me on Twitter @sentience.

凯文：感谢您收听SitePoint播客。 如果您对今天的采访有任何想法或疑问，请保持联系。 你可以在Twitter上找到SitePoint @sitepointdotcom ，你可以找到我的Twitter @sentience 。

Visit sitepoint.com/podcast to leave a comment on this show and to subscribe to get every show automatically. We’ll be back next week with another news and commentary show with our usual panel of experts.

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This episode of the SitePoint Podcast was produced by Karn Broad, and I’m Kevin Yank. Bye for now!

This episode of the SitePoint Podcast was produced by Karn Broad , and I'm Kevin Yank. 暂时再见！

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Mike Mella的主题音乐。

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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-64-learning-the-web-with-russ-weakley/