For this interview, it's a pleasure to introduce you to one of today's leading figures in learning how to learn more effectively, Dr. Norman Fortenberry, the executive director of the American Society of Engineering Education. Dr. Fortenberry is MIT cubed. That is, he has his bachelors, masters, and doctorate in mechanical engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Because of his interest in learning, Norman took an unusual career path. After teaching his first engineering classes, he realized that there was the disconnect. He knew a great deal about his research area, but he didn't know about how to teach effectively. The reality is, that most new professors arrive at their universities without any training in how to teach effectively. Dr. Fortenberry wanted to do something about this problem. His work at the National Science Foundation and the National Consortium for Graduate Degrees for Minorities in Engineering and Science have helped create a whole network of support for faculty in science, engineering, math, and technology who want to help students learn effectively. In this interview, we'll get some practical ideas from Dr. Fortenberry on how you can most effectively approach your studies.
Thank you so much for being here, Dr. Fortenberry. I'm just so impressed. I have to ask you. Here you are. You landed at MIT, which is one of the top educational institutions, at least technologically-speaking, in the world. And you successfully climbed your way up the ladder all the way through to get your PhD. Let's cut past the generalities and get to specifics.
What were some of the most, most worthwhile tricks and approaches that you used to help you study and learn most effectively?
>> Well, MIT is, is a very good institution and not just technologically. For example, it has one of the top political science departments in the world. But, that said, the techniques that, that I pursued, the first and foremost was to recognize that what worked in high school will not work in college. In high school, you're taught to, well actually, most of Pre-K, you're taught you're to do your own work, study alone, etc. That is deadly. In college, at least in engineering schools, the expectation is that you're part of a group. The expectation is that there are course notes and course bibles that are all over campus. There's an expectation that you have access to resources that if you don't have access to, you're in deep trouble. So you have to make sure that you live up to that expectation by making the connections to the people who have the resources that you need to succeed. The key lesson in, in collegiate study, at least in engineering school, is you are part of a team. And if you don't have a team, you find a team. If you are a team, you maximize the team. But you have to be part of the group. Engineering is a team sport. You know, all the, all the stereotypes are about the lone engineer, the lone programmer. But it's a team sport. And you have to find your team as quickly as possible and make sure that the members of that team are very serious about their studies as well.
>> Okay. Your competition at MIT included some of the top students in the world. How did your, you approach your studies so that you could find things in a way to keep yourself from being intimidated.
>> I was intimidated. I was extremely intimidated. What it took was reminding myself and having others remind me, my peers, some of the administrators, to remind me that I didn't suddenly become less smart once I got to MIT. There were some extremely bright people, but I was one of those bright people. And that I needed to build a community of support around me. I gave support. I received support. So yes, you are entirely intimidated. At least I was, and people I knew were. But we knew that if we worked together as a team, we would make it through. And so, that was the key was to remember the objective is to learn the material. The objective is to finish the class. Even in grad school, the objective is to get the degree. And you keep your eye focused on the prize, and you fight it out, and you get through.
>> Early on in your college career, you took a more advanced calculus course-
>> Yes.
>> That most people don't usually take, at least at that stage. I understand this set you back in your studies.
>> Yes it did.
>> How could you have avoided this scenario, and how did you keep going in the face of facing failure and, and hardship?
>> Well the, the way to avoid the problem is to, is to, so this is all about balancing ego. I should have done what the overwhelming majority of students did, which was take the regular track calculus and not take the Calculus with Applications, which everybody said was the hard track. But I said, but it has application, so if I'm going to be an engineer that makes sense for me to do. There are times when there's wisdom in the wisdom of the crowd. There are times when being lemming is not the brightest thing in the world to do. The challenge is figuring out which is which. But I think I could have informed my decision by not only talking to my peers, but talking to some grad students and some administrators, you know, counseling deans, et cetera, about that choice and my background in calculus, which was not strong because I hadn't taken calculus before. I was handed an AP book and that was, that was my calculus class senior year in Louisiana. so, so the, the thing is to recognize when one is making a reasonable choice and when one is not making a reasonable choice. Now, how did I persist? I buckled down and studied very hard, again with the study groups. And I spent a lot of extra time going over material, two and three different ways to make sure that I understood it.
>> Okay, so what do you do to help prompt, sort of, what we call diffuse mode or neural resting states, the fresh perspectives you get from those kinds of states. In your, your research, in your work, how do you, how do you prompt those?
>> Well I think it's very important, the point that you make. One of the stories that I tell people is that, you know, it's okay to keep your nose to the grindstone. There are plenty of people, at that point, talking about MIT, plenty of people walking around with no noses. But if you keep your nose to the grindstone too long, you begin to cut into brain. And since brain is what you're trying to use, that's counterproductive. So it is important to take a break. My breaks involve total mental turn-off. I read cartoons in the, in the newspaper or watch cartoons on television. I watch some of the, now, I watch some of the silliest, most inane, television shows, as a form, without naming any names, as a form of relaxation. That allows me to turn off my conscious brain, your unconscious work. It's a lot like taking a nap. You know, there's so many things coming at you and pushing on you, that you have to redirect your focus in order for yourv brain to work on background and come up with the answers. So, so, I do things. Some people exercise. I used to exercise more. I need to exercise more. But I do things that shut my brain down in different ways.
>> Well, we share a little, my guilty pleasure is, I, I love to read the National Enquirer. [LAUGH].
>> That would work, too.
>> Many of our viewers have brothers and sisters and friends who are trying to learn new things. So, reflecting back on your own childhood, and even your work today, how have other people helped you in your learning? And, did, did people sometimes help you, perhaps, by not helping you? And, do you have any practical suggestions for our viewers, who are trying to learn how to learn?
>> There's very practical guidance on learning how to learn in, in any number of publications and online in, in terms of a, a systematic process for acquiring information. Some things I used with my son when he was younger, in terms of using as many different modes of input as you can. See something. Write it out by hand so that you've got the muscle memory, repeating it back to yourself. See it, say it, spell it, whatever. As many input modes, you've got your auditory learners, your visual learners. You, you saturate yourself with learning modes. That's one of the reasons why people need to be careful when you have a faculty member or a teacher to put something on, on overheads or, or Powerpoints these days. And you just take their overheads and don't really study them. The, the mechanical act of writing helps you to internalize that material, as well as going back over the notes again, helps you to internalize that material. So, multi-mode input is critical for learning. again, with the study groups and challenging each other, because what you, what you think you know, you find out when you try to explain it to somebody else, that's why teaching is one of the best ways to learn. But even if you don't go full blown to tutoring somebody else, just in discussing it with a set of peers and colleagues, okay, this is what I think I know. And they challenge you. Okay, well that's not what I thought I thought, but let me explain. And they will either, you will either validate what you thought, or you will find a, the fallacy in what you thought. And they do the same thing. And so you help each other by explaining material to each other. If you just write it out, yeah I've got it. Well, you may not have it, or you may have it wrong. And so you have to take the time to explain it, teach it, whatever, to somebody else as a way to make sure that you, in fact, have what you think you have in terms of your learning.
>> I think active learning like this, really grappling with it and using information that's within your own mind, that's the best way to know you've really got it within your own mind.
>> Sure.
>> So, you're exactly right. Norman, thank you so much. [BLANK_AUDIO]
在本次采访中，我很高兴向您介绍当今学习如何更有效地学习的领先人物之一，美国工程教育学会执行主任诺曼·福滕贝里博士。福滕贝里博士是MIT的立方体。也就是说，他在麻省理工学院获得了机械工程的学士、硕士和博士学位。由于对学习的兴趣，诺曼走了一条不寻常的职业道路。在教授了他的第一批工程课程后，他意识到存在脱节的问题。他对自己的研究领域了解很多，但他不知道如何有效地教学。现实情况是，大多数新教授在进入大学时没有接受过任何有效教学的培训。福滕贝里博士想为此问题做些什么。他在国家科学基金会和国家工程与科学少数族裔研究生学位联合会的工作帮助创建了一个支持希望帮助学生有效学习的科学、工程、数学和技术教师的网络。在这次采访中，我们将从福滕贝里博士那里得到一些实用的建议，关于您如何最有效地进行学习。
非常感谢您能来到这里，福滕贝里博士。我对此印象深刻。我必须问您一个问题。您来到了MIT，这是世界上至少从技术角度来说最好的教育机构之一。您成功地爬上了梯子，一路拿到了博士学位。让我们跳过一般性问题，直接进入具体问题。
“您在学习过程中使用了一些最有价值的技巧和方法来帮助您最有效地学习和学习吗？”
“嗯，MIT是一个非常好的机构，不仅仅是在技术上。例如，它拥有全球最好的政治学系之一。但是，尽管如此，我所追求的技巧首先是要认识到高中时代的方法在大学中行不通。在高中时，实际上在前幼儿园阶段，你被教导要自己做自己的工作，独自学习等等。这是致命的。在大学里，至少在工程学院中，期望你是团队的一部分。期望校园里有课程笔记和课程圣经等资源。期望你能够获得这些资源，如果你无法获得它们，你就会陷入困境。因此，你必须通过与拥有你需要取得成功的资源的人建立联系来确保自己达到这种期望。在大学学习中的关键教训，至少在工程学院中，是你是团队的一部分。如果你没有一个团队，就找到一个团队。如果你是团队的一员，就要最大限度地发挥团队的作用。但你必须成为团队的一部分。工程是一项团队运动。你知道所有的刻板印象都是关于孤独的工程师、孤独的程序员的。但这是团队运动。你必须尽快找到你的团队，并确保该团队的成员也非常认真地对待他们的学习。”
“好的。你在MIT的竞争对手包括世界上一些顶尖的学生。你是如何进行学习的，以便找到一种方法来避免自己感到害怕？”
“我确实感到害怕。我非常害怕。我需要做的是提醒自己，并让别人提醒我，我的同龄人，一些行政人员，提醒我，一旦我进入MIT，我并没有突然变得不那么聪明。那里有一些非常聪明的人，但我也是那些聪明人之一。我需要在我的周围建立一个支持性的社区。我给予支持，也得到支持。所以，是的，你完全感到害怕。至少我是，我知道的人也是。但我们知道，如果我们作为一个团队一起工作，我们会度过难关。因此，关键是要记住目标是学习材料。目标是完成课程。即使在研究生阶段，目标也是获得学位。你要专注于目标，努力奋斗，克服困难。”
“在你的大学生涯早期，你选修了一门更高级的微积分课程？”
“是的。
“大多数人通常不会选择这门课，至少在那个阶段不会。我知道你的学习受到了影响。”
“是的，确实有影响。”
“你如何避免这种情况，面对失败和困难时如何继续前进？”
“嗯，避免问题的方法是要平衡自我。我应该像绝大多数学生一样，选择普通的微积分课程，而不是选择大家都说很难的《微积分及其应用》。但我说，它有应用价值，所以如果我将来成为一名工程师，这对我有意义。有时候群众的智慧是正确的。有时候跟随大众并不是世界上最明智的事情。挑战在于分辨哪个是哪个。但我认为我可以做出明智的决定，不仅要与同龄人交谈，还要与一些研究生和一些行政人员交谈，例如咨询系主任等，了解我的选择和我的背景在微积分方面并不强，因为我之前没有学过微积分。我在路易斯安那州高中的最后一年拿到了一本AP教材，那就是我的微积分课程。所以关键是要认识到何时做出了合理的选择，何时没有做出合理的选择。那么我是如何坚持下去的呢？我又努力学习了，还是通过学习小组。我花了很多额外的时间复习材料，用两三种不同的方式确保我理解了它。”
“好的，那么你是如何帮助激发我们所说的扩散模式或神经休息状态呢？在你研究和工作中，你如何激发这些新的观点？”
“嗯，我认为你提出的观点非常重要。我告诉人们的一个故事是，坚持努力工作是可以的。在那个时候，有很多人谈论MIT，有很多人四处走动却没有目标。但是如果你长时间坚持努力工作，你开始割伤大脑。由于大脑是你试图使用的东西，这是适得其反的。所以休息一下是很重要的。我的休息时间包括完全让大脑停止工作。我在报纸上阅读漫画或在电视上观看卡通片。我看一些，现在，我看一些最愚蠢、最无聊的电视节目，作为一种放松的形式，不提任何名字。这让我关闭了有意识的大脑，让你的无意识工作。这很像打个盹。你知道，有很多事情向你袭来并推着你前进，你必须重新调整你的关注点，以便你的大脑在后台工作并得出答案。所以，我做一些事情。有些人锻炼。我以前锻炼得更多。我需要更多地锻炼。但我用不同的方式让我的大脑停下来。”
“嗯，我们分享一点，我的小秘密是，我喜欢读《国家询问报》。[笑声]”
“那也有效。”
“我们的许多观众都有兄弟姐妹和朋友正在努力学习新事物。所以，回顾你自己的童年，甚至你现在的工作，其他人是如何帮助你学习的？而且，人们有时会通过不帮助你来帮助你吗？对于正在学习如何学习的人，你有什么实际建议吗？”
“有很多关于如何学习的实际指导可以在各种出版物和在线资源中找到，以系统化的方式获取信息。当我儿子还小的时候，我用了一些方法来帮助他尽可能多地使用不同的输入模式。看到一些东西。用手写出来，这样你就有肌肉记忆，重复告诉自己。看到它，说出来，拼写它，无论什么方式。有多种输入模式，你有听觉学习者和视觉学习者。你要让自己沉浸在学习模式中。这就是为什么人们在今天有一个教员或老师把东西放在投影仪上时需要小心的原因之一。你只是拿走他们的投影仪并没有真正研究它们。机械地写作有助于你将材料内化，以及反复复习笔记也有助于你将材料内化。因此，多模式输入对学习至关重要。再次强调与学习小组一起学习和相互挑战的重要性，因为当你试图向别人解释你认为你知道的东西时，你会发现自己不知道的东西，这就是为什么教学是最好的学习方法之一。但即使你没有全面辅导别人，只是在与一群同龄人和同事讨论时，好吧，这就是我认为我知道的东西。他们会挑战你。好吧，那不是我原来想的，但让我解释一下。他们要么验证你所想的，要么发现你所想的错误之处。他们也做同样的事情。所以你通过向彼此解释材料来互相帮助。如果你只是把它写出来，是的，我知道了。但是你可能并不知道或者理解错了。所以你必须花时间向别人解释、教授它等等，以确保你真的掌握了你认为你已经学到的知识。”
“我认为像这样积极地学习、真正地处理问题和使用你自己脑海中的信息是最好的方法来确保你真的掌握了知识。”
“当然可以。”
“所以你说得完全正确。诺曼，非常感谢你。”
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